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Is it legitimate to translate the verse this way? Yes it is because it is consistent with Hebrew dictionaries which tell us that the word, shachah, can mean worship, bow down, obeisance, reverence, fall down, crouch, prostrate oneself, (Enhanced Strong's Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995). See the same thing stated in The Abridged Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew-English Lexicon of the Old Testament, Richard Whitaker, Editor, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997). This would easily demonstrate that David was not being worshipped. Instead, homage was being paid to him as was also being paid to God--though, of course, there is no confusion about who is God and who is not. As if that weren't enough, the Jehovah's Witnesses own New World Translation translates the Hebrew word, shachah, in 1 Chron. 29:20 as "prostrate."

"And David went on to say to all the congregation: "Bless, now, Jehovah YOUR God." And all the congregation proceeded to bless Jehovah the God of their forefathers and bow low and prostrate themselves to Jehovah and to the king," (NWT).

Therefore, the Jehovah's Witnesses own bible recognizes that King David though greatly revered by the people was not worshipped. Instead, both God and David were revered by the people by prostration and not worship.

Let's assume the Jehovah's Witness argument for a moment. Even if we were to say that Jesus could be honored the same way that David was honored--in a lesser sense than God--this does not mean that Jesus is not God. Remember, Jesus is both God and man. As a man, people would bow down to Him. As God, He was worshipped. In addition, it is said of Jesus that He knew all things (John 21:17) and that He would be with the disciples wherever they went (Matt. 28:20), etc. He is called God by Thomas in John 20:28 and by the Father in Heb. 1:8. The divinity of Christ is well attested to in the New Testament, and only the Jehovah's Witnesses, with their preconceived idea--that Jesus is not divine--will twist the Scriptures to suit their own needs.

The Bible says, "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God . . . and the word became flesh and dwelt among us," (John 1:1, 14). Clearly, Jesus is the Word made flesh, and as it says in Col. 2:9, all the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily in Jesus. Jesus is not a created being but the creator of all things (Col. 1:16-17) just as God alone is the creator of all (Isaiah 44:24). He is both God and man. This is called the Hypostatic Union.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong, and their continued attempt to dethrone Christ will continue to fail as the truth of God's Word is revealed.

https://carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/1-chron-2920-Jesus-worshipped-same-way-david-was

[size=14pt]John 17:3, "The only true God."[/size]

"And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent," (John 17:3).

The Jehovah's Witnesses, among others, cite John 17:3 as a proof text to deny the Trinity and claim that Jesus Christ is not God. They reason is that if Jesus were God, then He would not have called the Father, "the only true God." If the Father is the only true God, then it must require that Jesus cannot be God.

First of all, it is not proper to make a theological doctrine out of one verse. Of this the Jehovah's Witnesses are sometimes guilty. Nevertheless, they do tend to take one or two verses on a subject and use them to interpret all the others. Instead of getting a balanced position, they arrive at an interpretation that is in agreement with their theological position. This is called "proof-texting" and is something the Jehovah's Witnesses do frequently.

Second, the context of Jesus' comment was that He was speaking as a man to His God. Remember, Jesus is both God and man, second person of the Trinity, and the Word made flesh (John 1:1, 14). Since He was both divine and man, as a man, He would naturally and properly say that His Father was the only True God. He was not denying His own divinity but affirming the Trueness of God as was done in the OT: 'And now, O Lord our God, deliver us from his hand that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that Thou alone, Lord, art God,' (Isaiah 37:20). The truth is that Jesus was a man made under the Law (Gal. 4:4), and as a man, He would be subject to God. Only in this case, Jesus was subject to the Father. That is why Jesus called the Father the only true God, but it is not a phrase that excludes Christ, for Christ Himself said, "Before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:58) and did not deny being called God by Thomas in John 20:28.

Third, John 17:3 must be examined in the light of the totality of Scripture. We see that Jesus is called God in John 1:1, 14, 8:58, 20:28, Col. 2:9, and Heb. 1:8. Therefore, John 17:3 cannot be interpreted in a way that disagrees with other Scriptures. Of course, some people simply state that John 17:3 cannot allow for Jesus being God, but the simple fact is that Jesus is called God by God and others. Therefore, the whole of Scripture must be harmonized.

Fourth, this verse reflects the sonship of Jesus. The Father and the Son have a unique relationship. Jesus is the eternal Son. The terms Father and Son denote a relationship which is why God is called the God of the Son in 2 Cor. 11:31.

Fifth, Jesus identifies Himself with the Father. Jesus is in the Father, and the Father is in Jesus (John 10:38). Jesus is one with the Father (John 10:30). They are not divided in essence. So, in one sense Jesus is in the Father, and if the Father is the only true God, then Jesus is the True God. Also, in 1 John 5:20, Jesus is called the only true God: "And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding, in order that we might know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life." Jesus is not contradicting the Word.

Sixth, if we are to be consistent using the Jehovah's Witness logic that the Father is the only true God, then the following verses present a problem--if we use their logic.

"For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ," (Jude 4, NASB).
Does this mean that the Father is not our Master and Lord? Of course not. Yet, Jesus is called our only Master and Lord.
"There was the true light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him," (John 1:9-10).
Here we see Jesus being called the true light. Does this mean that the Father is not the true light? If not, then we have both the Son and the Father being the true light.
"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone," (Mark 10:18, NASB).
Does this verse mean that Jesus is not good? Jesus said that only God was good. Then, if we use the Jehovah's Witness logic, Jesus is not good. Of course, that doesn't make any sense.
"I, even I, am the Lord [YHWH]; And there is no savior besides Me," (Isaiah 43:11).
We know that Jesus is the Savior. Again, according to Witness logic, Jesus could not be the Savior since the Bible tells us that YHWH is the only Savior.
"Blessed be the Lord God, the God of Israel, Who alone works wonders," (Psalm 72:18, NASB).
Jesus performed many miracles. But if the Lord [YHWH] is the one who alone performs wonders, how then can it be that Jesus also?
"Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, 'I, the Lord [YHWH], am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone,'" (Isaiah 44:24, NASB).
According to John 1:3 and Col. 1:16-17, Jesus made all things. With JW logic you would have a problem.
Col. 1:16-17 says, "For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities, all things have been created by Him and for Him. 17And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together," (NASB). Since God is alone created all things, how could Jesus have done it? For more on this subject see the JW paper on Col. 1:16-17.

As we can see, we cannot simply make a doctrine out of one verse. To do so is to invite error, and it only serves to use the Bible to validate preconceived ideas about doctrine.

https://carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/john-173-only-true-god

Johannes Greber
The Watchtower Society has appealed to a little-known Bible translation by Johannes Greber, a former Catholic priest, for support of their a god rendering of John 1:1 in the New World Translation. Greber's translation came about through contact with the spirit world. In fact, his wife, who was a spirit medium, helped him with this translation:Johannes Greber

At times he [Greber] was given the correct answers in large illuminated letter and words passing before his eyes. Other times he was given the correct answers during prayer meetings. His wife, a medium of God's Spiritworld was often instrumental in conveying the correct answer from God's Messengers to Pastor Greber.(15)

Strange as it may sound the Watchtower Society denounced Johannes Greber's involvement in Spiritism and his translation as coming from demons in their Feb. 15, 1956 The Watchtower, p. 111. But for many years afterward the Watchtower Society still continued to cite his demon-produced translation for support(16). So knowingly, the Watchtower Society appealed to a Bible translation many times, which came from demons, for support of their own New World Translation. What the demons were communicating through Greber's translation is still being vastly spread today by the New World Translation.

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/nwt.htm

[size=16pt]Jehovah's Witnesses and their many false prophecies[/size]

by Matt Slick

The Witnesses make many claims in their attempt to convert you to their faith. They profess to have the only true Christian church, to be the only true representatives of God, to have the only correct Biblical teaching, and to be the only true announcers of Jehovah's coming kingdom.

If they are the only true church and are the only true voice of God's Word, then what they say should prove to be true and especially in prophecy. When it comes to predicting the future, the Watchtower organization fails miserably. Following are some of the false predictions made over the years by the Watchtower organization. If you present these to a JW, he will probably say something like, "Those are taken out of context," or "They didn't claim to be the prophet of God," or "The light is getting brighter, and we are understanding Bible prophecy better now," etc. Make a copy of these false prophecies, found in the appendix, and give it to them to check. They are right out of the Witnesses' literature.

Remember Deut. 18:22, "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." If someone makes a false prophecy and they have claimed to be a prophet of God, then they are false prophets and are not to be listened to. Do the Witnesses claim to be the prophet of God? Yes, they do.

In 1972 the Jehovah's Witness Watchtower claimed to be the prophet of God.

IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET"--"So does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? . . . This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian Witnesses . . . Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197). (See Deut. 18:21).

1897 "Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874," (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 4, p. 621).
1899 " . . . the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced," (The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101).
1916 "The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873," (The Time Is at Hand, forward, p. ii).
1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection," (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89).
1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914," (Watchtower, Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262).
1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1923, p. 106).
1925 "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year," (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3).
1925 "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work," (Watchtower, Sept., 1925, p. 262).
1926 "Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything," (Watchtower, p. 232).
1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time . . . and they also learned to quit fixing dates," (Vindication, p. 338).
1941 "Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon," (Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1941, p. 288).
1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? . . . Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them," (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968).
1968 "Why are you looking forward to 1975?" (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p. 494).

A JW might say that the organization is still learning. If that is so, then how can they trust what they are taught now by the Watchtower? Will what they are being taught now change also?



A true prophet of God won't err in prophesying. Only a false prophet does. The Jehovah's Witness organization, that claims to be a prophet of God, is really a false prophet. Jesus warned us by saying, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible" (Matt. 24:24).

https://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses-and-their-many-false-prophecies

What's the greek word for worship? Its proskuneo. Actually in the bible, many references have people
offering proskuneo to fellow humans with higher social rank.

dolphinheart:
All should consider this questions

(1) does jesus have a God?
(2) was jesus sent ?
(3) who sent jesus ?
(4) who do you think is superior , jesus or the one who sent him .
(5) is jesus the father?
(6) if you think jesus is not the father, who do you think deserves our worship , jesus , the father or both ?
(7 ) is Christ under subjection to anybody ?
( if you are in subjection to another, is that person not superior to you ?

correct! That's thinking ability

And once again, I open debate on a subject forgotten 2 years past. I would like to mention that the people, everyone, living in ignorance of another's beliefs does in fact make you look really childish. As a Catholic I would like to clear up a quick mention of the Catholic teaching.

For this specific argument, I would like to direct everyone to the Athanasian Creed. This more accurately describes how the Catholic Faith percieves Trinity.

To answer the questions previously mentioned,

1) No, as he is God.
2) Yes, by God the Father, who is himself in unity.
3) God the Father, who is himself in unity.
4) Both are equivalent in power: infinite.
5) Jesus is God the Son, so no. Yet, he still is God, the singular God.
6) All three, not just both.
7) Christ is under subjection to God the Father, who is himself, while being God the Son. Therefore, Christ is still equivalent to God the Father.


Please do mention if I err in writing these, as I am personally not an expert on Trinitarian belief, as this can be easily subject to potential heresy. I am trying my best to put it into plain English.