Bastage:

@ OLAADEGBU

See what happens when you dump copy and paste into the bin of forgetfulness?

You can actually make sense sometimes.

Thanks for your appreciation and advise. It will also serve you well to dump Richard Dawkin's The God Delusion into the bin of oblivion.

OLAADEGBU:

Thanks for the compliments.   It is also high time you dumped The Da Vinci Code(Deception) into the fiction bin of forgetfulness.

I have never and would never subscribe to the da vinci code, as far as i am concerned it is only a fiction of the imagination of a criminally inspired fiction story teller who is out to profit from controversy that always sorrounds religious works. I stand strictly for the truth that is inherent in the true gospel of Jesus christ which unfortunately as been distorted by the church which is meant to preserve it.

KunleOshob:

I have never and would never subscribe to the da vinci code, as far as i am concerned it is only a fiction of the imagination of a criminally inspired fiction story teller who is out to profit from controversy that always sorrounds religious works. I stand strictly for the truth that is inherent in the true gospel of Jesus christ which unfortunately as been distorted by the church which is meant to preserve it.

I am happy to hear that you only strictly stand for the gospel truth, but this truth is not a concept that has been distorted by the "church" but He is a Person (Jesus Christ) who is willing to dwell inside you and only after this will He by the Holy Spirit interprete the Scriptures (66 books of the Bible) as you willingly allow Him to teach you.

OLAADEGBU:

I am happy to hear that you only strictly stand for the gospel truth, but this truth is not a concept that has been distorted by the "church" but He is a Person (Jesus Christ) who is willing to dwell inside you and only after this will He by the Holy Spirit interprete the Scriptures (66 books of the Bible) as you willingly allow Him to teach you.

Whilst my understanding of scripture(word of God) is not limited to the 66 books of the bible since it was not divinely compiled, i believe that a lot of chrisitans are being led astray by the church due to the misplaced priorities of the church leadership and the selfish human nature. As i have always said Jesus made it very clear that the most important commandment was to love others. This comandment was the central ndoctrine of the early christian church. it was what was responsible for all the charitable and good deeds carried out by the early church. Church collections then were for the needy, but today most churches merely pay lip service to this most important commandment which should a cardinal focus of the church. They claim church tithes and offerings is meant for running the church and spreading the gospel only. Occasionally to assuage their conscience they do some paltry charitable activities and make noise about it. Christianity is not just about personal salvation but more also about selfless love for others. The passage below captures properly how we should primarily practicalize our christian lives, unfortunately this instructions are mostly being ignored by the church and christians today and that is why i feel so pained about the practice of christianity today and i have a negative attitude towards the church leadership cos i beleive they are not leading us rightly.


James 1:27:
27 Pure and genuine religion/worship in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.

KunleOshob:

Whilst my understanding of scripture(word of God) is not limited to the 66 books of the bible since it was not divinely compiled, i believe that a lot of chrisitans are being led astray by the church due to the misplaced priorities of the church leadership and the selfish human nature. As i have always said Jesus made it very clear that the most important commandment was to love others. This comandment was the central ndoctrine of the early christian church. it was what was responsible for all the charitable and good deeds carried out by the early church. Church collections then were for the needy, but today most churches merely pay lip service to this most important commandment which should a cardinal focus of the church. They claim church tithes and offerings is meant for running the church and spreading the gospel only. Occasionally to assuage their conscience they do some paltry charitable activities and make noise about it. Christianity is not just about personal salvation but more also about selfless love for others. The passage below captures properly how we should primarily practicalize our christian lives, unfortunately this instructions are mostly being ignored by the church and christians today and that is why i feel so pained about the practice of christianity today and i have a negative attitude towards the church leadership cos i beleive they are not leading us rightly.


James 1:27:
27 Pure and genuine religion/worship in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.

Jesus did not have to go to the cross and die for us just for us to be religious or to follow religious organisations, as we can do those things by our own efforts but He came and died to seek and to save the lost and only after we have appropriated His shed blood for the forgiveness of our past sins and received His imputed and imparted righteousness which only comes by faith in Jesus Christ, and only after this can we receive the grace to live in the newness of life and by this grace do the works of righteousness that you quoted in the verse above. Withhout this we will not be different than the religious Pharisees and Saducees who only practised outward righteousness but were inwardly full of dead men's bones. They were only half baked, having a form of godliness but denying the power of it.

_{Quote from: chukwudi44 on April 11, 2009, 06:57 PM}

About the old testament the fact remains that some books were probably lost.The prophecy in mattew "He shall be called a nazarene" has still not been found.Theologians has been searching for the source of this quototion for centuries now.Also Jesus did mention the murder of the prophet zechariah son of berechiah,which still can't be found.The fact remains that so many inspired books were written some lost now.

God has in His providence preserved the 66 books of the Scriptures in what we have in the Holy Bible. Matthew 2:23 that you quoted said that as it was "spoken," not written by the prophets, for no prophet recorded this statement until Matthew by divine inspiration did. Matthew's mention of the city of Nazareth combined the concepts of lowliness and the wordplay on a messianic title. The Hebrew word netzer means a branch, sprout or shoot was related to the messianic title in Isaiah 11:1.

Likewise, not all Jewish religious literature was considered part of the list of inspired books. For example, the book of Jasher existed (Jos.10:13) as did the book of the Wars of the Lord (Num.21:14) and others (1Kings 11:41). These books did not survive the centuries, so we don't know their contents but what is important is that God has preserved by His holy prophets and apostles His inspired words for our learning of the historical facts that will work towards our salvation and perfection in righteousness

The Bible was not manufactured. It has many writers but one author. Holy men wrote and the were inspired by the Holy Ghost. It was writted by the Holy Spirit and reveals JESUS

OLAADEGBU:

_{Quote from chukwudi44: on: April 10, 2009, 02:50 PM}
The word pope derived from the Latin papa which means 'father' is regarded by you as the vicar of Christ on earth, taking the place of Jesus Christ in the world. You view the pope as the ruler of the world and supreme over all, this is what the RCC adherents are made to believe.

It is interesting to know that the evil emperor Phocas in A.D. 604 who first used and applied the title of 'pope' to Gregory I. While Gregory established the power and supremacy of the Bishop of Rome, he refused to accept the title 'pope', but a successor, Boniface III, accepted it and it has been used ever since to describe the Bishop of Rome. Vatican I in 1870 claimed supreme authority and infallibility for the pope in all aspects of faith and morals, particularly when he speaks ex cathedra, that is, officially. Vatican II, in its decree on the constitution of the church called the Lumen Gentium, modified the authority of the pope somewhow, claiming that when the bishops as successors of the apostles act together to define questions of faith and morals they thus teach infallibly. I am happy to know that not all RCC members believe this, such as Hans Kung, who are questioning this fallacy.

[list]
[li]Our Lord Jesus Christ has warned us not to call any man 'father', that is in a spiritual context, such as taking the place of our Father in heaven or even taking the place of Christ. [/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]The position of a pope as an overlord ruling over all believers is forbidden in the Scripture by Peter who you erroneously claim is your first pope, in 1 Peter 5:3

"Neither as being lords over God's Heritage, but being ensamples to the flock" [/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]Concerning the apostolic succession of bishops, the Bible teaches: first, the uniqueness of the apostles as eyewitnesses of the resurrection (Acts 1:21-22); Second, apostolic succession means believing and teaching only what the Lord and the original apostles taught. The test is doctrinal and biblical (Gal.1:8-9; Ephesians 2:20; 1 Tim. 6:3-5, 2 Tim.1:13-14). [/li]
[/list]

The church of God, where two or three people gather together in the name of Jesus, is moving on, strong as ever, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against us, be they false religions, cults and the evolutionary bandwagon (or secular humanists), the more we are persecuted and matyred the stronger we become until Jesus comes for His bride in the first phase of His second coming.

_{Quote from chukwudi44: on: April 10, 2009, 02:50 PM}
This is what Athanasius wrote in his letter:

"As the heretics are quoting apocryphal writings, an evil which was rife even as early as when St. Luke wrote his gospel, therefore I have thought good to set forth clearly what books have been received by us through tradition as belonging to the Canon, and which we believe to be divine. [Then follows the books of the Old Testament] Of the New Testament these are the books . . . [then follows the 27 books of our New Testament, and no more]. These are the fountains of salvation, that whoever thirsts, may be satisfied by the eloquence which is in them. In them alone is set forth the doctrine of piety. Let no one add to them, nor take anything from them."
-- From the Festal Epistle of Athanasius XXXIX. [i]Translated in Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. IV. p. 551-552.

Now tell me who added to what Athanasius received from the early church fathers and I will tell you who the heretics are.

_{Quote from chukwudi44: on: April 10, 2009, 02:50 PM}
The onus is on you to use Biblical sources to prove that the papacy started from Peter and the popes that succeeded him. As far as I am concerned, there is little or no evidence that Peter ever went to Rome nor Clement referred to by Paul was the only bishop at Rome at the time of his writing. The problem you guys have is the twisting and misunderstanding of Matthew 16:13-19 where you wrongly claim that Christ appointed Peter as the first pope and Bishop of Rome.

"And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church . . . "

As I have explained in the other thread I will endeavour to take another angle to explain these verses. While the Greek word 'Peter' here is masculine (Petros) and refers to a person, the word 'rock' (Petra) is feminine, not referring to Peter but to his confession that Jesus is "the Christ, the Son of the living God"(verse 16). Christ does not build His church upon a man but on the truth that Peter confessed (1 Cor. 3:11; Eph.2:20).

"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you shall bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt.16:19).

According to verses 1 and 18 in Matthew 18 this authority was given to all the disciples, not only to Peter. Peter was as a representative of all the apostles. When Jesus spoke to Peter He was speaking to all the apostles. The authority our Lord speaks of here is that of opening the kingdom of heaven to people through the preaching of the gospel. This was not an absolute power to exclude or admit people to heaven but a declarative power only, that is, authority to proclaim the conditions on which God is prepared to forgive and save sinners. In Acts 2:14-42, especially vs 21 Peter did this through preaching, and later in Acts 10:34-43 he had the privilege of preaching the same gospel to Cornelius, thus opening the doors to the Gentiles, even though Paul became the apostle to the Christian Gentiles while Peter was an apostles to the Christian Jews in diaspora and James presided at Jerusalem. Such authority, or keys, was given to all the apostles, then to others like evangelists and pastors as you can see in the cases of Philip and others.

_{Quote from chukwudi44: on: April 10, 2009, 02:50 PM}
[list]
[li]Peter nowhere claims in the Bible to be a bishop or pope in Rome (1Pet.1:1; 5:1-3; Acts 10:25-26).[/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]Paul was called to be an apostle independently of Peter (see Galatians 1) and that Peter was not more important than Paul is evident in 2 Cor. 12:11 and Galatians 2:7,11-14. Again it was not Peter but James who chaired the church in Jerusalem in Acts 15.[/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]There is no evidence that Peter was ever in Rome, and even Paul's letter to the Romans does not include any reference at all to Peter, which would have been strange if Peter was a bishop there.[/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]Neither are the words, 'Strengthen your brothers,' in Luke 22:31-32 unique to Peter alone, as the Vatican teaches. Luke uses the words to describe Paul's work in Acts 14:22; 15:32, 41; 18:23.[/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]Similarly, the command to 'feed the flock in John 21:15-17 was not exclusive to Peter, for Paul uses one of the words in describing the work of elders at Ephesus in Acts 20:28.[/li]
[/list]

You claimed peter was never in rome st ignatius of antioch on his way to matyrdom wrote to the roman christians this words "I do not order you as peter and paul did ,they wer apostles:i am but a condemmed man
The early christian writer tertullian in his write up also stated that peter and Paul both died in rome.You cannot restrict your sources to the 76 canonised books ,since so many other books were written even by people who met the apostles.
All the christians of the first to fourth century never doubted that peter was in rome. A ctually Peter was first bishop of antioch before comming to rome.If he had died as bishop of antioch i can assure you that antioch would have been the capital of RCC today.
Paul himself acknoleged that peter was among the church leaders when he wrote in galatians 2:9
"In fact James ,Peter and John who were known as PILLARS of the church recognised the gift God had given me and they accepted Barnabas and me as their co-workers

@Oladegbu

These Athanasius that you keep on mentioning was a Roman catholic Bishop of Alexandria .He is was that defended the dogma of the trinity at the council of nicea
Before the synod of hippo the books of Revelation,Hebrew,james 1-3 john ,1-2 peter were regarded as apocryphals .The authorship of the lletter to the hebrews is still disputed even to this present day.At the time of the reformation Martin luther tried in vain to remove this bboks especially those of Revelation and James.
The truth would always remain truthe truth no matter how you hate it.Your hatred willcanot bring down the RCC.That is the true church left behind by the Apostles .

chukwudi44:

@Oladegbu

These Athanasius that you keep on mentioning was a Roman catholic Bishop of Alexandria .He is was that defended the dogma of the trinity at the council of nicea
Before the synod of hippo the books of Revelation,Hebrew,james 1-3 john ,1-2 peter were regarded as apocryphals .The authorship of the lletter to the hebrews is still disputed even to this present day.At the time of the reformation Martin luther tried in vain to remove this bboks especially those of Revelation and James.
The truth would always remain truthe truth no matter how you hate it.Your hatred willcanot bring down the RCC.That is the true church left behind by the Apostles .

You still have to explain to me how Athanasius of Egypt became a Roman Catholic Bishop who practises what is contrary to the Canon he received from the early church fathers as I quoted below.  The RCC has added the apocrypal writings to the books that Athanasius received, so tell me how he is a Roman Catholic Bishop when he claims that they are heretics?  I thank God for the likes of Martin Luther and others who discovered the deception and proclaimed it as false.  See the true church as opposed to the RCC that you think is the true church in the links below.

http://www.gotquestions.org/origin-Catholic-church.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/original-church.html

why all these confusion i dont understand i think is better not to com to this thread again u guys are really really getting me so so confused may be my faith is not strong enough to come here bye bye o

GOD IS D GENERAL MANUFACTURER OF D BIBLE

OLAADEGBU:

You still have to explain to me how Athanasius of Egypt became a Roman Catholic Bishop who practises what is contrary to the Canon he received from the early church fathers as I quoted below. The RCC has added the apocrypal writings to the books that Athanasius received, so tell me how he is a Roman Catholic Bishop when he claims that they are heretics? I thank God for the likes of Martin Luther and others who discovered the deception and proclaimed it as false. See the true church as opposed to the RCC that you think is the true church in the links below.

http://www.gotquestions.org/origin-Catholic-church.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/original-church.html

It is too late for people like you to attempt to change history.The church of Alexandria was part of the Roman catholic church until the council of chalcedon in 451AD.It was only after that council thet they left the RCC.

Athanasius was a prominent member of the RCC of the fourth century,he alongside Arius were the key actors of the council of nicea convoked by the Roman Emperor Constantine.He was buried in Rome,it was only sometime in the1970s that Pope JohnPaulii returned his body to the coptic church of Alexandria.

@Oladegbu
It might interest you to know that the Athanasian canon also included the so called apopcryphal books.

chukwudi44:

@Oladegbu
It might interest you to know that the Athanasian canon also included the so called apopcryphal books.

See in the link below how Satan has been trying to corrupt the Word of God through the ages.  You will then not be surprised how he slipped it into the Septuagint.  Just show me one verse where Jesus or His Apostle quoted from the apocryphal books, the ones you mentioned earlier does not count as I have explained.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0031/0031_01.asp

@olaadegbu
I don't know how you can confidently say that satan has been trying to corrupt the word of God thru the catholic church that God used to preserve it for us whilst you are actively in the business of actively corrupting his word daily on this forum. At least thousands of nairalanders can bear witness to that and the bible itself also testifies against you. My advice is you remove the log in your eyes b4 you remove the speck in the eye of others.

@Sammyzacks: The bible is not authentic, because it lacks authenticity; if not tell me which is authentic here Jesus God said by the writers of the Books of revelations, or Act 4 verse 25/30 where Jesus is Servant? What about Mark12 Verse 29 where Jesus and his listeners, the Children of Israel all have One God Lord and the other side is the claim that Jesus and father are the same ting, when Jesus was on earth and Father was where father was, but definitely not on earth, ight where Jesus was!

KunleOshob:

The truth that most people that claim to be born again don't even understand the bible, they are mostly selfish and self centerd and christ is NOT in them. They claim to love God yet thet never keep his greatest commandment which is to love others. Even the pastors that champion this born again slogan are not christ like as they would rather keep the church collections for themselves under the guise of (runnin the church) instead of giving it to the poor and needy(showing love) as directed in the bible. 2corinthians 9, Acts 4:32-35

Truth11:

That doesnt mean all are like that. People who see bad examples are looking for excuses. Have you kept the greatest commandment, why judge others? Are you to follow Christ or the church pastor and all the wrong examples you quoted. Samuel had no good example either in Eli or his two sons who were immoral. He did not even have his family or parents, he was dedicated at 7 years of age to be with Eli in the temple. Yet, he loved the Lord and set an excellent example right from 7years. He had no peers to look up to but he did not complain because his heart was set on following the path of righteousness and serve the Lord. The Lord blessed him to the very end of his life. What is your heart looking for - bad examples or good examples. You will find what you are craving for. May we take good examples and let God deal with the bad examples if what you are saying is true.

Blessings,

KunleOshob:

And how does all this ramblings explain how by being a "born again" you would be able to understand the bible better? The average "born again" does not even know the history of the bible talkless of the genuine will of God.

[s]@ttalk,

I am surprised that you have tried to explained the essense of being born again to kunleoshob, the fact that you attend the same organisation and he has remained adamant and not changed. Is it the fact that you have found a common ground of not paying tithes and relegated the more important doctrines of the Bible to the background? or has your convictions changed that you now speak the same language?[/s]

@olaadegbu
And if I may ask which are the other more important doctrines in the bible we relegated? You are the one who is guilty of ignoring the weightier matters of the law like love and instead focus on the obsolete aspects of it becos of your selfish greed and love for filthy lucre. One thing is certain though, God sees our hearts.

OLAADEGBU:

@ttalk,

I am surprised that you have tried to explained the essense of being born again to kunleoshob, the fact that you attend the same organisation and he has remained adamant and not changed. Is it the fact that you have found a common ground of not paying tithes and relegated the more important doctrines of the Bible to the background? or has your convictions changed that you now speak the same language?

I guess you meant to add a "not" in ur post above because if u didn't, then i haven't explained anything to Kunle.
he knows what it means to be born again; or at least, he knows what is required of a born again person.

This whole born again issue is quite vast so it takes constant study to really get the whole message about it.

The main thing to realize is simply the fact that being born again is not a destination but a journey. It requires constant devotion to the requirements of the new covenant to remain in the faith and to ultimately be saved at the end of the ages; when Christ comes again.

As it is, anyone who is born again isn't totally saved but is in the process of being completely saved. Hence the admonition to stand in the faith; so as to make your:

2Pe 1:10
(10) . . . . . . . . calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

KunleOshob:

@olaadegbu
And if I may ask which are the other more important doctrines in the bible we relegated? You are the one who is guilty of ignoring the weightier matters of the law like love and instead focus on the obsolete aspects of it becos of your selfish greed and love for filthy lucre. One thing is certain though, God sees our hearts.

Being born again is more important than paying your tithes because if you are not born again even your sacrificial giving or tithe would not be accepted by God.  The Bible says that the sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination how much more when he brings it with a wicked heart.

ttalks:

I guess you meant to add a "not" in your post above because if u didn't, then i haven't explained anything to Kunle.
he knows what it means to be born again; or at least, he knows what is required of a born again person.

This whole born again issue is quite vast so it takes constant study to really get the whole message about it.

The main thing to realize is simply the fact that being born again is not a destination but a journey. It requires constant devotion to the requirements of the new covenant to remain in the faith and to ultimately be saved at the end of the ages; when Christ comes again.

As it is, anyone who is born again isn't totally saved but is in the process of being completely saved. Hence the admonition to stand in the faith; so as to make your:

2Pe 1:10
(10) . . . . . . . . calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

My mistake. I mistook Truth11 for you. I was surprised when I saw Truth11's post which was biblically sound and wondered what had happened to him that he is now singing a new tune. Now I have discovered that he is not the same as ttalk so I apologise to Truth11 for mistaken him for you. I would have been surprised if you had been the one making such sound understanding of scriptures.

@Olaadegbu
Evidently you don't eve know what it truly means to a christ focused christian, you think that it is by being religious and dogmatic, in case you don't know this was one of the constant battles christ fought with the religious establishment {the pharisees} when he was here with us. He came to set the captives free, unfortunately your ilks are trying to put people back in bondagethrough you false doctrines. Actually i pity you and weep for you as it is not easy to to come to the knowledge of truth having been thoroughly brain washed for years {i was in your shoes before} but i thank God for revelation and having the opportuinty to know the truth. My thread on scrutinizing one's belief system was directed at people like you, you have the passion but you are only mis-directed. I suggest you put your version and understanding of "christianity" under a christ focused test and see if it hold through. Christianity is not dogmatism you are to test all things and hold fast to what is true and not just what your pasotr tells you.

OLAADEGBU:

My mistake. I mistook Truth11 for you. I was surprised when I saw Truth11's post which was biblically sound and wondered what had happened to him that he is now singing a new tune. Now I have discovered that he is not the same as ttalk so I apologise to Truth11 for mistaken him for you. I would have been surprised if you had been the one making such sound understanding of scriptures.

Very cheap shot. But, . . . . no harm done.

ttalks:

Very cheap shot. But, . . . . no harm done.

I must give you some credit for your understanding of Salvation in another thread however, the little leaven that you believe that God makes us sinners or righteous against our own wills, that we can blame God for our fault is from the pit of hell.

"And Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." -- 1 Timothy 2:13-14

Why God created the serpent and allowed him to tempt Eve is a great mystery. However, those who would be quick to accuse God of wrongdoing would be wise to lay a hand on their mouth. We don't have to question His integrity because we know that all of His judgments are true and altogether righteous (Psalm 19:9).

OLAADEGBU:

I must give you some credit for your understanding of Salvation in another thread however, the little leaven that you believe that God makes us sinners or righteous against our own wills, that we can blame God for our fault is from the pit of hell.

"And Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." -- 1 Timothy 2:13-14

Why God created the serpent and allowed him to tempt Eve is a great mystery. However, those who would be quick to accuse God of wrongdoing would be wise to lay a hand on their mouth. We don't have to question His integrity because we know that all of His judgments are true and altogether righteous (Psalm 19:9).

God cannot be accused of wrongdoing. He isn't man.
God is the owner of mankind and however he decides to handle mankind is his right and decision.
The fact is that God subjected the creation(humans) to vanity not by its will but by God's and God will still deliver the creation from that bondage. - Romans 8:19-21.

God making humans to be righteous and leaving some to be sinners is all part of his grand master plan to deliver humanity from its bondage of sin. at the end, we will all give glory to God for his means(which many might not understand or accept now).

As I said before,all our wills(the saved and unsaved) are influenced wills. They are wills flowing in the pattern of God's masterplan and not free(uninfluenced) wills.

And I keep seeing your(and some other people's ) use of the "pit of Hell", . . . . . . .Where's that in the bible if you please?

OLAADEGBU:

My mistake. I mistook Truth11 for you. I was surprised when I saw Truth11's post which was biblically sound and wondered what had happened to him that he is now singing a new tune. Now I have discovered that he is not the same as ttalk so I apologise to Truth11 for mistaken him for you. I would have been surprised if you had been the one making such sound understanding of scriptures.

I am not suprised you found it biblically sound after all he is finding a fault in kunleoshob's post. In as much as truth11 as given his point/opinion, he is not entirely correct. As you know evil thrives becos a few good men failed to speak up against it. I would not be a good christian if i see evil and corruption in the 'church' and i fail to speak up against it. Even if i am not a saint as we are all sinners. The important thing is to strive to do God's will as God is no respecter of persons especially your pastors. Also remember that when Jesus was here with us he constantly fought against the religious establishment who were doing exactly what our religious establishment are doing today, go figure it out.

ttalks:

God cannot be accused of wrongdoing. He isn't man.
God is the owner of mankind and however he decides to handle mankind is his right and decision.
The fact is that God subjected the creation(humans) to vanity not by its will but by God's and God will still deliver the creation from that bondage. - Romans 8:19-21.

God making humans to be righteous and leaving some to be sinners is all part of his grand master plan to deliver humanity from its bondage of sin. at the end, we will all give glory to God for his means(which many might not understand or accept now).

As I said before,all our wills(the saved and unsaved) are influenced wills. They are wills flowing in the pattern of God's masterplan and not free(uninfluenced) wills.

And I keep seeing your(and some other people's ) use of the "pit of Hell", . . . . . . .Where's that in the bible if you please?

If a man who is a just judge will not take the excuse that "God made me like this.  Sin is His fault!" then I see no reason why the Perfect righteous Judge will do any less.  If this won't work in a court, it certainly won't work on Judgment Day.  Even with an expert defense lawyer, it would take a pretty inept judge to fall for the old "God made me do it" defense.  We humans are responsible moral agents.  The "buck" stopped at Adam.  He tried to blame both God and Eve for his sin; Eve blamed the serpent while the serpent had no leg to stand on.  It is human nature to play the "blame game" but this will not work with God on the Judgment Day.

KunleOshob:

I am not suprised you found it biblically sound after all he is finding a fault in kunleoshob's post. In as much as truth11 as given his point/opinion, he is not entirely correct. As you know evil thrives becos a few good men failed to speak up against it. I would not be a good christian if i see evil and corruption in the 'church' and i fail to speak up against it. Even if i am not a saint as we are all sinners. The important thing is to strive to do God's will as God is no respecter of persons especially your pastors. Also remember that when Jesus was here with us he constantly fought against the religious establishment who were doing exactly what our religious establishment are doing today, go figure it out.

I could not say it any better than what Truth11 has explained to you. If you are humble you will go over what he said and make amends. As for the "corruption in the church" that you are worried about, my advise to you is to rather spend your time examining yourself if Christ is in you and leave the Judgment to Christ.

@olaadegbu
That is what you don't understand, it is the christ in me that is making me fight against the corruption of his word by fraudsters who claim to be representing him. Christ did the same when those who love profiteering from religion [many of them abound today] wanted to turn the temple then to a "den of robbers" the amazing thing is that the crooks have graduated from profiteering outside the temple to establishing their own "churches" and profiteering right inside the "church" today.

KunleOshob:

@olaadegbu
That is what you don't understand, it is the christ in me that is making me fight against the corruption of his word by fraudsters who claim to be representing him. Christ did the same when those who love profiteering from religion [many of them abound today] wanted to turn the temple then to a "den of robbers" the amazing thing is that the crooks have graduated from profiteering outside the temple to establishing their own "churches" and profiteering right inside the "church" today.

If you say Christ is in you then get involved in the preaching of the gospel.  Of what use would a sinner who is bound for hell be if you only succeed in stopping him pay his tithes?  His soul is more important to God than his tithes and offering.  God will rather sinners give their lives to Him than pay tithes and offerings.  Obedience is better than sacrifice.  And then realise that this battle is not a carnal warfare but against principalities and powers and rulers of darkness and spiritual wickedness in high places.  True Christians are admonished to put on the  "whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.  Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth" (Ephesians 6:13-14).  Faith must be faith in the truth.  Faith in a lie will not stand.  "And take |literally 'receive'| the helmet of salvation" (v. 17).  Each warrior, saved "by grace . . . through faith" (2:, immersed in truth and obedient to the Commander, is assured of complete and overwhelming victory.

Still waiting for the answer. . .