C2H5OH:

Due process of law my friend.  i'm just thinking if it's conclusive that a person can be born gay, then there must be a gene that controls sexual orientation.  I would want a revision made to the law to stop the senseless killings of rapists and pedos.

Because if that happens to be the case, people can be born as bisexuals, pedophiles, rapists, animal fockers, object fockers, etc.  It would be a naturally occuring process that is beyond their control.  Right?

C2H5OH:

Nature has it that a child can be born as male, female, hermaphrodite, etc . . . some asexual, etc.

Whatever happens after that is most likely an issue of circumstance. Environment, nurture, perversion, choice, and so forth

Again, there are homosexual rapists just as there are heterosexual rapists (these people I don't care if they are straight or gay) belong behind bars.

So if I follow your argument, being straight is also an issue of circumstance.

what you also should realize is that sex and gender are two related but different concepts

C2H5OH:

what if they are born that way ;Dbut you are not following the argument.
being straight is both by nature and by norm. circumstance is what leads people to deviate from that. focus here will ya.
when you mention straight, i'm guessing you mean "male-female intercourse". Ignoring artificial inseminations, etc, how else would you have been produced if not for that?so what's your point?

oyinda.:

lol my reply disappeared

rapists are sex offenders. They use violence to force others into having sex with them. And how has this got anything to do with gays wanting their right to marriage? Who are the rapists trying to marry? their victims? rape has nothing to do with relationship or marriage. It's just a violent act of sex that involves a perpetrator and a victim. It is a personal attack on homosexuals to compare them to rapists.

how is being straight both by nature and by norm?

by sex being different from gender:

Sex refers to biological differences; chromosomes, hormonal profiles, internal and external sex organs.
Gender describes the characteristics that a society or culture delineates as masculine or feminine.

it is when individuals deviate from gender norms, they are seen as threats to society (for whatever reasons) i.e feminine male, masculine female. etc

Nature has it that a child can be born as male, female, hermaphrodite, etc . . . some asexual, etc.

Whatever happens after that is most likely an issue of circumstance.

being straight is by nature

what are you talking about again? you lost me.

being straight being natural because of the need for reproduction was answer number one

Its the way they shout "go and research" that gets me laughing. If Mich had "researched" at all instead of bullying everyone who doesnt agree with her depraved state of mind she shld know that consensual incest IS ACCEPTED in France and[b] Holland. Incest marriage is allowed in Sweden.
[/b]
Now why does she support gay rights but not incest? Are the brother and sister pair not citizens with rights?

The Netherlands

Incest is illegal in the Netherlands. It is forbidden to have children with any first, second, or third degree relative, as it is in any other European country.

It is also illegal to have sexual intercourse with a minor. Minors are allowed to have intercourse with another minor, and although it is forbidden by law, it is generally accepted when a 17-year-old engages intercourse with an 18-year-old, however, larger age differences usually are not accepted and therefore considered a crime.

On the issue of marriage for minors, a minor may only marry with the permission of their parents or legal guardians, without it, the marriage is unlawful,   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest

Sweden

It is illegal for siblings to get married in Sweden

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest


http://www.skatteverket.se/folkbokforing/ovrigt/aktenskap.4.18e1b10334ebe8bc80004956.html

dalaman:

@ davidylan if only you will also stop bullying any body that does not agree with your depraved state of mind and stop resorting to lies when making your points you will know that incest is not allowed in Holland and incest marriage is NOT allowed in Sweden.

dalaman:
The Netherlands
Incest is illegal in the Netherlands. It is forbidden to have children with any first, second, or third degree relative, as it is in any other European country.

It is also illegal to have sexual intercourse with a minor. Minors are allowed to have intercourse with another minor, and although it is forbidden by law, it is generally accepted when a 17-year-old engages intercourse with an 18-year-old, however, larger age differences usually are not accepted and therefore considered a crime.

On the issue of marriage for minors, a minor may only marry with the permission of their parents or legal guardians, without it, the marriage is unlawful,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest

dalaman:
Sweden

It is illegal for siblings to get married in Sweden

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest


http://www.skatteverket.se/folkbokforing/ovrigt/aktenskap.4.18e1b10334ebe8bc80004956.html

dalaman:


. . . and incest marriage is NOT allowed in Sweden.

It is illegal for siblings to get married in Sweden

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest

http://www.skatteverket.se/folkbokforing/ovrigt/aktenskap.4.18e1b10334ebe8bc80004956.html

davidylan:


Source - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6424337.stm

As regards Sweden

Sweden is the only country in Europe which allows marriage between siblings who share a parent

Source - Already quoted above.

Sweden's legalisation of marriage between siblings however requires special permission by Swedish authorities and is only allowed between siblings from only one parent . . .

huxley2:

On what basis is incest illegal? Is it illegal because it is immoral and if so what makes it immoral? Why is it immoral?

huxley2:

On what basis is incest illegal?

Is it illegal because it is immoral

Why is it immoral?

ade.f:

Is it morally right? That's left for society to decide, I guess. Let's not forget however that the same societal views differ from culture to culture and indeed civilization to civilization. But from nature's point of view: There's no right or wrong. There's never been a right or wrong.

C2H5OH:

Incest (or several variations of incest) can be illegal depending on your jurisdiction. Consult the local government office near you.
Laws are written for many reasons - most usually to protect people from harm. Laws are written to ascertain the will of the people. Laws also reflect their morals and codes of conduct. Laws communicate what is tolerable or intolerable. If the people occupying a particular country find incest immoral, it is logical that they would implement a law to ban it.

It could also be due to the defects that can occur at birth. And by that it would be for the greater benefit of the people to implement a law to proibit the act from taking place.
As I presented above, there are quite a few possible reasons why it could be considered immoral to a people. It could also be immoral based on your personal standards or religious values.


Now injecting some personal vendetta into the matter. Don't you find it disgusting? I am grossed out by it. It makes my stomach turn just thinking about it.

huxley2:

Am afraid, but you have not answered the questions, but simply restated the fact that it (incest) is considered illegal and immoral in most countries. I was asking for why most societies consider incest immoral.

Take for instance, if I had asked why thieving is considered immoral in most societies, you could say - because it deprives a property owner of their possession. In the same vein, why is incest immoral? Whose rights or properties does incest violates?

Sagamite:

Mainly because they are disgusted by it. It is a law based on morality.

Minorly because they could be possibly negative defect of an offspring from an incestual relationship.

huxley2:

I see, but should we found our legal systems on the disgust factor of certain acts? I am disgusted by people who eat snails - so should we consider the eating of snails immoral?

huxley2:

There is some mileage in the argument about the risk of offspring defects, but we still get millions of children born each year with defects from parents who are not related. Take for instance, should we legislate against parents who are carriers of sickle-cell anaemia having children because of the risk of their offsprings developing fullblown anaemia?

Yes, I agree.

Obviously nudist have a better claim for acceptance than homosexuals.

Are nudists, bestialists and incestors not people like us? You think they have green blood? But we rightfully banned them based on our moral filters.

No 1, where did you see me saying I am ready to kill for? You are running out of logic?

As long as they keep it to their bedrooms they are surely safe and even protected by the law because if you can't prove the act, they are untouchable.

So we don't want them exposing their filth in our society.

The basic acceptance you are advocating, I object to because I am smart enough to know it is just an insidious beginning. It will not be long before we start talking about gay adoption, marriage, inclusion in our kids curricullum etc if we in Nigeria accept any form of legal acceptance of faggotism.

The same rights I have to stop incest, bestiality and necrophilia.

Unfortunately, you are not yet clued up to the reality that NO society can cater for where every individual can choose freely to live as they want. Every society regulates based on justice, morals and orderliness. EVERY society does it.

ILOCHUDI:

@ sagamite
  i think the ( white west) as u put it do make their laws mainly cos they value their freedom more to what people think  is right and normal than we ( the black east). What is rly moral to you might not be to the other person. Try to think of if that which you are claiming to be immoral really affects you OR JUST THAT YOU CANT STAND IT.
  People are trying to be free and happy not caged and unhappy and living in a hypocritical  and pretended environment.
 Remeber that you were being considered cos of ur coloured skin to be a slave, even it was claimed that the bible made it right ( the sons of HAM shall be hewers of wood), but people wanted freedom and acceptance.
THAT IS CIVILISATION

michelin89:

If you say so.

michelin89:

Bestialists, incestors are not banned on moral groung but on a juridical ground. What they do is commit a crime by taking advantage of someone or something that is not in the position to object. Most incestuous cases are rape of a father/mother over their children who somehow comply because they are in a position of subordination and suggestion.

michelin89:

I use esaggerations to prove my point. It's called hyperbole dear but it's not far from the truth. Do you tell Nigerians would walk pass two guys showing affection? Ahahhahah! I am so into logic.

michelin89:

They are not protected. They can be accused at anytime by anybody. Nigerians don't condone homosexuality and it's likely they are found guilty. The State must make sure homosexuality is not regarded as a crime despite it's not morally accepted.

michelin89:

They are talks. They talk. They are doing the same everywhere, but if the majority is called to vote and says they don't want it, then fine. But you can't stop them from demanding. They have the right to demand.

michelin89:

You have no right to stop anything. What power have you got? Ahahahha! Goodness, na who dash you the power to choose who stays and who leaves?

michelin89:

Don't confuse State and society, they are not the same. Laws must be respected by everyone and but ideals are simply opinions. They regulate the society and we don't need a majority for an ideal to oustand the others. A few loud people are more than enough.