JeSoul:

  I hear you mr brother, these people are zealous! and I think we can safely say they will only garner even more momentum as time passes.

Sadly so, even if the 'evidence' doesn't stand up to scrutiny as ILO was trying to prove.

Yeah, embracing it and throwing oneself entirely into it - I believe that's a different category from another person who's genuinely struggling with the thots but still resisting & refusing to partake of the act.

I guess you're right on that account.

   hehe  so I've heard  . . .  and uhmm it's like that for women too - sometimes 
Feeling instant attraction isn't wrong, not in my view. Its what you do with the thots thereafter that makes it either sinful or not. For instance[b] I see your picture and say to myself he's drop dead handsome[/b]  but then move on and don't dwell on the thots - perfectly natural reaction. But if I begin to entertain and dive into lustful thots then it is sin. 

I am tempted to explore the bold part in more detail. But I digress. Like you said, having never personally been in that position, it's difficult for me to comprehend (or separate) the thoughts from the actions in principle. I see attraction to females as a 'basic'/natural reaction that 'confirms' my heterosexuality, before even thinking about whether it is lustful or appropriate. This is when I'd like to hear the views of someone who has struggled with this and overcome.

    You're right in that few things are ever completely 'clear cut'. To me feeling a conflict about it is a sign that their conscience doing its job. That's why now I feel sorry more than anything for those of homosexual persuation. That they happened to be the unfortunate ones to struggle with this unpopular sin - whether by choice or not or thru no 'fault' of theirs.

It is an unpopular sin to struggle with. Some sins like adultery are actually celebrated, depending on where you are.

  But my brother you know what the bible says: "All have sinned" and "there is not one righteous" Adam and eve made us all guilty and we're all suffering the consequences - especially our gay brethren.

That is the bare faced truth. I wish more of our brethren would recognise this and show sensitivity/compassion instead of the strident condemnation that seems to be the primary message out there.

debosky:

Sadly so, even if the 'evidence' doesn't stand up to scrutiny as ILO was trying to prove.

And lack of evidence will neither slow nor deter them . . . it is already the polticially correct thing to do to accept and support gays. And even for myself (and other christians) one huge danger is becoming desensitized to it as gay 'sightings' have become a common occurence in public places. I was at the hair store yday and this dude with painted nails and earings and tight jeans was boldly trying on wigs only few people gave him a second look.

I am tempted to explore the bold part in more detail. But I digress. Like you said, having never personally been in that position, it's difficult for me to comprehend (or separate) the thoughts from the actions in principle. I see attraction to females as a 'basic'/natural reaction that 'confirms' my heterosexuality, before even thinking about whether it is lustful or appropriate. This is when I'd like to hear the views of someone who has struggled with this and overcome.

hehe digressions are not only welcome, they are encouraged .
There's an acquaintance of mine - a female artist/rapper - who was gay for 10yrs before becoming a christian. Prior to that she was raped and was also into prostitution. Her testimony is powerful! If you have a few minutes check it out here on website, click on under "Intresting Stuff - My testimony" and play the audio file. She speaks to so many of the issues we talk about here - still struggling with the homosexual thots daily etc.
http://thecfrn.com/osnap/about.html
Also anyone else reading this you will be blessed if you listen to that testimony

It is an unpopular sin to struggle with. Some sins like adultery are actually celebrated, depending on where you are.

Gbam, gbam and gbam!!! A friend was lamenting just the other day how her uncle divorced his wife and got married again in a month and no one condemned him but God help you if you are gay, the rejection and castigation you will face . . .

That is the bare faced truth. I wish more of our brethren would recognise this and show sensitivity/compassion instead of the strident condemnation that seems to be the primary message out there.

Amen and amen. It is a charge indeed to all of us christians to follow the example of Jesus compassion and that it could've been us in their shoes.

I was at the hair store yday and this dude with painted nails and earings and tight jeans was boldly trying on wigs  Shocked  Undecided  only few people gave him a second look.

and what's the danger with this?

. Prior to that she was raped and was also into prostitution. Her testimony is powerful!

hmm where are you going with this?

JeSoul:

And lack of evidence will neither slow nor deter them . . . it is already the polticially correct thing to do to accept and support gays. And even for myself (and other christians) one huge danger is becoming desensitized to it as gay 'sightings' have become a common occurence in public places. I was at the hair store yday and this dude with painted nails and earings and tight jeans was boldly trying on wigs only few people gave him a second look.

I understand fully - desensitization is a real possibility, just like sexual 'freedom' is almost unquestioned now, even by some Christians. We all need to make sure we return to our roots - the word of God.

hehe digressions are not only welcome, they are encouraged .

Hmm, I might just take you up on that offer, maybe I can listen to some of your music sometime.

There's an acquaintance of mine - a female artist/rapper - who was gay for 10yrs before becoming a christian. Prior to that she was raped and was also into prostitution. Her testimony is powerful! If you have a few minutes check it out here on website, click on under "Intresting Stuff - My testimony" and play the audio file. She speaks to so many of the issues we talk about here - still struggling with the homosexual thots daily etc.
http://thecfrn.com/osnap/about.html
Also anyone else reading this you will be blessed if you listen to that testimony

Will definitely take a look at it. People with real experiences are the best, at least they have personal stories to tell of the struggle.

Gbam, gbam and gbam!!! A friend was lamenting just the other day how her uncle divorced his wife and got married again in a month and no one condemned him but God help you if you are gay, the rejection and castigation you will face . . .

This is the problem I have, even Christians do this, tolerating or 'understanding' some and rejecting others.

Amen and amen. It is a charge indeed to all of us christians to follow the example of Jesus compassion and that it could've been us in their shoes.

Most definitely - God give us all grace to do so.

nmm

nmm

No one can be born gay. it is just a defensive statement for people who are into this act and feel they so much involve to come out of it.

being born as a man or a woman is a biological process. but the act of behaving like a man or a woman is learnt through the process of socialization.

the desire for sex is as a result of our biological make up. But who we have sex with depends on our social experience, which could occur any time (either during childhood, or adult hood)

if people are born gay, then why do some people eventually stop being gay at some points in their life? Can a man stop being a man and become a woman?
yes, some people believe they are born gay, these are people who feel they are helpless to the situation, hence the only why defence mechanism they have is to belive that they are born with it. If u are involved with something,u get addicted to it, u start enjoying it, the only way to justify this enjoyable act is by looking for a reasonable excuse for that action.
being gay is a sexual disorder caused by different environmental experiences. it is a misdirection of our object of sexual affection, because of an internal unresloved conflict which was caused by an environmental experience.

frank3.16:

No one can be born gay. it is just a defensive statement for people who are into this act and feel they so much involve to come out of it.

being born as a man or a woman is a biological process. but the act of behaving like a man or a woman is learnt through the process of socialization.

the desire for sex is as a result of our biological make up. But who we have sex with depends on our social experience, which could occur any time (either during childhood, or adult hood)

if people are born gay, then why do some people eventually stop being gay at some points in their life? Can a man stop being a man and become a woman?
yes, some people believe they are born gay, these are people who feel they are helpless to the situation, hence the only why defence mechanism they have is to belive that they are born with it. If u are involved with something,u get addicted to it, u start enjoying it, the only way to justify this enjoyable act is by looking for a reasonable excuse for that action.
being gay is a sexual disorder caused by different environmental experiences. it is a misdirection of our object of sexual affection, because of an internal unresloved conflict which was caused by an environmental experience.

Prove me wrong

frank3.16:

No one can be born gay. it is just a defensive statement for people who are into this act and feel they so much involve to come out of it.

being born as a man or a woman is a biological process. but the act of behaving like a man or a woman is learnt through the process of socialization.

the desire for sex is as a result of our biological make up. But who we have sex with depends on our social experience, which could occur any time (either during childhood, or adult hood)

if people are born gay, then why do some people eventually stop being gay at some points in their life? Can a man stop being a man and become a woman?


yes, some people believe they are born gay, these are people who feel they are helpless to the situation, hence the only why defence mechanism they have is to belive that they are born with it. If u are involved with something,u get addicted to it, u start enjoying it, the only way to justify this enjoyable act is by looking for a reasonable excuse for that action.
being gay is a sexual disorder caused by different environmental experiences. it is a misdirection of our object of sexual affection, because of an internal unresloved conflict which was caused by an environmental experience.

in continuation, people's misdirection towards sextual objects could be directed to different objects. there are records where some people get seual gratification from rubbing their genitals on inanimate objects, some get sexual gratification from forcing underagded to rub their genitals (often known as pedophile), some get sexual gratification from watching naked people (voyeurism), them we have those who get satisfaction from exposing their genitals, ie those usually act ponographic movies. then those who get satisfaction by doing it with membeers of the same sex (homosexuals)
note that every human has these tendencies, but the degree at which we can control them is what makes us who we are. the kind of enviromnent we grow in really matters also, it is usually the main factor that could cause us unresolve conflict, and the only way our psychological makeup can help up escape from these conflicts is by finding solace in these abnormal acts.

NOTE: the only difference between normality and abnormality is exessivensss

if people are born gay, then why do some people eventually stop being gay at some points in their life? Can a man stop being a man and become a woman?

how do you stop being gay. you lunatics are confusing bisexuals with homosexuals.

have you ever taken time to converse with the people you are judging?

bawomolo:

how do you stop being gay. you lunatics are confusing bisexuals with homosexuals.

have you ever taken time to converse with the people you are judging?

We need to conduct research into therapies and drugs without fear of physical and personality attack by the gay brigade terrorists that only want us to accept without questioning.

The Western government are key in this and need to be open-minded and develop more balls.

Sagamite:

We need to conduct research into therapies and drugs without fear of physical and personality attack by the gay brigade terrorists that only want us to accept without questioning.

The Western government are key in this and need to be open-minded and develop more balls.

   I'm afraid that may be asking way too much 

Debosky,
  my brotha thank you for the discourse, you're a sweetheart  and I will be taking you up on the offer of the music somtime .

Sagamite:

We need to conduct research into therapies and drugs without fear of physical and personality attack by the gay brigade terrorists that only want us to accept without questioning.

The Western government are key in this and need to be open-minded and develop more balls.

You don't need to waste time on therapies and drugs. mormons already have a camp to cure gay people.

The opinions of the American psychiatrist association and the psychology association (and a host of other organizations) is more credible than the quarks judging homosexuals in this thread.

bawomolo:

You don't need to waste time on therapies and drugs. mormons already have a camp to cure gay people.

The opinions of the American psychiatrist association and the psychology association (and a host of other organizations) is more credible than the quarks judging homosexuals in this thread.

Nah, we need it to be more scientific like the one set up for paedophiles in such facilities as the "Coalinga State Hospital" in California, where this guys are engaged in and complete rigorous treatment to cure them of deviancy before release irrespective of whether they were born that way.

bawomolo:

how do you stop being gay. you lunatics are confusing bisexuals with homosexuals.

have you ever taken time to converse with the people you are judging?

I never judged gays. I am only of the view that people cant be born gay. if u read through my write up, u will see that i simply explain the evrionmental process that could lead people inot becoming gay. but i didnt judge them
who am i to judge gays? like i said, a lot of us have so many psychological disorders, being gay is just one of them.
I studied psychology, so i know so much about such disorders.

and stop using abusive words, even when u dont understand what people say.

I am not confusing gay with homosexuals with bisexuals. God!! did u read my write up?  a bisexual is simply someone who love doing like a woman, either in dressing or behavoiur. I never mentioned such in my write up so why are u saying i am confusing homosexual with bisexual.

a bisexual is simply someone who love doing like a woman, either in dressing or behavoiur.

you aren't that daft are you. being a cross dresser doesn't mean you are a bisexual.

Sagamite:

Nah, we need it to be more scientific like the one set up for paedophiles in such facilities as the "Coalinga State Hospital" in California, where this guys are engaged in and complete rigorous treatment to cure them of deviancy before release irrespective of whether they were born that way.

lol reminds me of the x-men movie. looking for the mutant cure huh?

goodluck on your quest.

I think that a person can't be born gay. People become gay with the time, but at the beginning of our life, we are all straight.

for the folks who believe homosexuality is a learnt trait.

how do you learn it or chose to be one?

A very interesting topic indeed, and i think i should comment. You see the greatest trick of the devil is to allow people think he doesn't exist, and hides most of his works behind science. We first heard of being gay in Sodom and Gomorrah, so its not a new thing, but its catching on now, because the devil has enlisted science to make it OK. Being gay is not genetic, but in my opinion i think its environmental, it does not follow the natural order, but it has been made to look cool, hence a solution has been given to its proponent by science, these proponents are not seen , but they are everywhere, so an unnatural thing has been made legitimate.

i live in the uk and it is very interesting to see how the bible is being fulfilled, gradually, typically signalling the end of times. there is a new legislation coming up that will enforce face recognition in the airports, so if come in through heathrow or gatwick, ur face will be scanned and it will lock your face to your name, just like we watch in the movies, this will make it impossible for people who shouldn't be in the country to come in i.e illegal immigrants, therefore restricting movement, very soon you will have to have need a pass or have your face scanned with a chip or something or a number code. this looks so innocent making people believe that the real aim is to stop illegal immigrants, but the purpose is much more than that.

There is also a bill to legalise prostitution, and believe me there is a strong argument for it. Science with the help of the government is trying to give legitimacy to lots of our spiritual beliefs in the process, removing the notion that God exist, denying the spirituality of these things, but all these is fulfilling prophecy and signals the end of time. all things that happen in the natural has precedence in the spiritual, to be gay is spiritual problem, there is a spirit controlling it, but to make it get acceptability, science finds a way to explain it, and propagates it with the help of the media, that s why we are having this discussion.

A very interesting topic indeed, and i think i should comment. You see the greatest trick of the devil is to allow people think he doesn't exist, and hides most of his works behind science. We first heard of being gay in Sodom and Gomorrah, so its not a new thing, but its catching on now, because the devil has enlisted science to make it OK. Being gay is not genetic, but in my opinion i think its environmental, it does not follow the natural order, but it has been made to look cool, hence a solution has been given to its proponent by science, these proponents are not seen , but they are everywhere, so  an unnatural thing has been made legitimate.

i live in the uk and it is very interesting to see how the bible is being fulfilled, gradually, typically signalling the end of times. there is a new legislation coming up that will enforce face recognition in the airports, so if come in through heathrow or gatwick, ur face will be scanned and it will lock your face to your name, just like we watch in the movies, this will make it impossible for people who shouldn't be in the country to come in i.e illegal immigrants, therefore restricting movement, very soon you will have to have need a pass or have your face scanned with a chip or something or a number code. this looks so innocent making people believe that the real aim is to stop illegal immigrants, but the purpose is much more than that.

There is also a bill to legalise prostitution, and believe me there is a strong argument for it. Science with the help of the government is trying to give legitimacy to lots of our spiritual beliefs in the process, removing the notion that God exist, denying the spirituality of these things, but all these is fulfilling prophecy and signals the end of time. all things that happen in the natural has precedence in the spiritual, to be gay is spiritual problem, there is a spirit controlling it, but to make it get acceptability, science finds a way to explain it, and propagates it with the help of the media, that s why we are having this discussion.

I don't think anyone is born gay. Dat is sin in the highest places,although all sin are equal.dat is devil decievin us.and it's so disgusting.[color=#770077][/color]

i do believe some people are born gay just the way som ppl r pre-diposed to alcoholism and addictions and some are not(probably the bi-sexuals). i'm not one and have no judgement towards them.to each,their own.
From a christian point of view,the bible is against it,in black and white.no blurry lines ther.if u are a strog christian,u can ask God to help u overcome.but if u're neither here nor there like most people r,get on. Homosexuality,adultery,rage R all sinS.its Only cos some societies victimize gays(som mor than odas).
its like asking if anyone is born a gambler oR an addict.psychologist let us kno that some people have addictive personalities so the simplest thing that gives them pleasure become der way of life.That should explain how some people love to gamble for fun while others choose ther holiday destination based on the availability of a casino and run themselves into debt.som people drink in clubs or wen hanging while others cant function without alcohol in ther sytem as soon as dey're up in the morning.
if l u schooled in a same-sex boarding house,u probably came across ppl who loved to fool around wit odas(sexually).some did it for laughs,others for lack of the presence of d opposite sex but then u see those who r SERIOUS .they hav a girlfriend,get jealous of other girls around u even der platonic friends, so yes,i believe some people are born that way and it'll take 'deliverance' to change. If u've eva met somone who u kno as a good person in all ramfications only to discover he's gay,would u think less Of him/her. I WOULDN'T

hello

for me i completely believe that the bible also has this to say and i stand by it

Rom 1:21-28

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; [/b]but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 [b]Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
KJV

simply put refusing to acknowledge and accept God, He gave them over to abnormal affection which is homosexual, lesbian thus it is a damning to the "players".

my 1kobo

bump

whyyy?

why what? what's wrong with bumping to get more contributions to an educative thread like this?

Any one who is an authority on personality psychology here

we need an insider's view on this matter.

I get why the Bible condemns adultery and unmarried sex; I don't get homosexuality. HOW and WHY is homosexuality a sin? I see no commandment that insists Thou shalt be attracted only to a man if thou art a wench. It's been around as long as man. There doesn't appear to be any objections outside of the Bible, something that shows the dangers of homosexuality, if there's any. The bible doesn't like it is a pretty vague and inadequate objection, especially since not everyone believes in the Bible or lives by it, however much we would like to shove our standards and values down others' throats. Is it innate, is it acquired? No one is sure. I heard something about a gay gene,but scientists have gone gene mad and there appears to be a gene for everything from waving your hands to bvrushing yout teeth. A gay gene is unconvincing, but what if it were proven beyond a doubt that sexual preference can be BOTH acquired and innate? What about married gay couples? Have they sinned?

I'm not saying the Bible doesn't condemn it; it does. But do gay people 'choose' to be gay? No more than we 'chose' to be straight, I don't think. I'm not sure any conscious decision-making is factored into being gay and one can't counter something as complex and powerful as human sexuality with 'It's a sin.'