Thanks Amigoes for giving them list of persons who can help them.

Those who have earss let them hear henceforth

JeSoul:


   Excellent! that's a point I was hoping someone who eventually bring up.
What I was trying to get at with the post was that we're all born with the sinful nature - and homosexuality is a sin and therefore is part of the sinful nature which is inherent in all of us. So in a way you could say spiritually that they were 'born' with it but I'd rather put it this way:

  to answer your question and looking at it from a spiritual angle, what we are all born with is the 'potential' to be sinful. We all struggle with different sins. Some of us struggle with lying, murder, stealing, fornication etc and some unfortunate others, homosexuality. Some resist and fight the urge and go on to live happy heterosexual lives and others give in to the sinful desires and therefore have chosen to be participants of this deviation from the natural. Hope this makes sense.

Let us explore this further - you state that a choice is made. Now some homosexuals say they would actually wish they were hetero but find that they are simply not, with no attraction to members of the opposite sex. Can such an apparently 'compelling' or 'basic' drive (as some homosexuals state it is) be regarded as a choice?

I am slightly uneasy about the comparison with lying, murder, fornication and the like, because, under certain circumstances, those actions could be regarded as 'necessary' for survival (e.g war, threat of death or what not). Cases of homosexuality in prison or other single gender environments can be described as being such, but what about people who have never been exposed to such 'abnormal' environments yet feel a 'compelling' urge to be gay?

@ Ilochudi

Till the gene is found, I won't be convinced that homsexuality is genetic. There might be 'hereditary factors' yes, but there are a gazillion hereditary factors that never play themselves out.

Thanks Amigoes for giving them list of persons who can help them.

Those who have earss let them hear henceforth

No2Atheism:

Jesoul i just gbadun u, that was a good and straight to the point answer

na2day?:

i know right

  to both of my brothers

debosky:

Let us explore this further - you state that a choice is made. Now some homosexuals say they would actually wish they were hetero but find that they are simply not, with no attraction to members of the opposite sex. Can such an apparently 'compelling' or 'basic' drive (as some homosexuals state it is) be regarded as a choice?

  Yes it most definitely can. While I will not presume to know what & how gays feel nor the degree of the intensity of those feelings, it doesn't alter the fact they still choose to act on those intense feelings.

 Its one thing to have urges of even the most consuming kind, and it is another to give in to them. And I do submit and appreciate that these people were probably unable to resist of their own strength and I don't hold that against them. The way I see it, its only by the strength of the Holy Spirit any sin can be conquered so it is expected that they will fail in trying to overcome it by their own power.

I am slightly uneasy about the comparison with lying, murder, fornication and the like, because, under certain circumstances, those actions could be regarded as 'necessary' for survival (e.g war, threat of death or what not).

 Those 'necessary' circumstances are not under dispute my brotha. I was refering to the habitual practice of those sins.
 

Cases of homosexuality in prison or other single gender environments can be described as being such, but what about people who have never been exposed to such 'abnormal' environments yet feel a 'compelling' urge to be gay?

 I would attribute those urges to the sinful nature. If we all have it, then we all will struggle at the feet of some particular sins - unfortunately theirs happens to be the very unpopular homosexuality.

@ Chiogo "straight or not, nobody smacks my butt"
What does that make you?

Study shows no evidence for the ‘homosexual gene’.

One of the biggest studies to date investigating whether there is a genetic cause of homosexuality has failed to find any evidence for the existence of a so-called ‘gay gene’. The research team, led by Dr George Rice of Canada’s University of Western Ontario, initiated the study.

It followed the earlier sensational claims of self-confessed homosexual Dr Dean Hamer and his team in 1993 purporting to have found a genetic link to homosexuality. Several years of frenzied research aimed at isolating the ‘homosexual gene’ proved fruitless.

Now Dr Rice’s team, using a much larger study sample and sophisticated genetic tests, has found no evidence at all of any link between this marker and sexual orientation.

Source:

The Independent, (U.K.), April 23, 1999, p. 5.
Science, April 23, 1999, pp. 571, 665–667.

This study supports the Word of God that says that He "made them male and female" at the beginning  Matthew 19:4-6.

Therefore, a person cannot be born gay.

ILOCHUDI:

@sagamite
  abeg no be fight. maybe u might have a lot more education than me (as i be olodo ).
  but since you know it all, what have you rly done to stop the government of where you are from legalizing it
  and accepting them ( cos is like u live in the UK). Maybe cos you know that you have a very baseless argument.
  Know that Only ignorant people think sexuality is chosen, and they choose to believe that, because if they   admitted it was inborn, they could not continue to justify their hatred and condemnation.
Why dont you hang or born one gay person or make one commit suicide. Maybe be you can rly know how hatred feels (Mr. morality and values)
           
               Science says homosexuality is natural.
               Religion says homosexuality is a choice.
I think i will go with Science
               

go with science?

it is either we believe GOD, HIS word the bible, or all these wont make any meaning or sense.

GOD says You are wonderfully and fearfully made.
Science says You evolved, from an ape bla bla bla

lets go wif GOD,


GOD says it is an ABOMINATION
Science say it has to do wif your gene/hormone!!!!!

God CANNOT be wrong.

ILOCHUDI:

@sagamite
  abeg no be fight. maybe u might have a lot more education than me (as i be olodo ).
  but since you know it all, what have you rly done to stop the government of where you are from legalizing it
  and accepting them ( cos is like u live in the UK). Maybe cos you know that you have a very baseless argument.
  Know that Only ignorant people think sexuality is chosen,  and they choose to believe that, because if they   admitted it was inborn, they could not continue to justify their hatred and condemnation.
  Why dont you hang or born one gay person or make one commit suicide. Maybe be you can rly know how hatred feels (Mr. morality and values)
           
               Science says homosexuality is natural.
               Religion says homosexuality is a choice.
                I think i will go with Science
               

go with science?

it is either we believe GOD, HIS word the bible, or all these wont make any meaning or sense.

GOD says You are wonderfully and fearfully made.
Science says You evolved, from an ape  bla bla bla

lets go wif GOD,


GOD says it is an ABOMINATION
Science say it has to do wif your gene/hormone!!!!!

God CANNOT be wrong.

ILOCHUDI:

@sagamite
  abeg no be fight. maybe u might have a lot more education than me (as i be olodo ).
  but since you know it all, what have you rly done to stop the government of where you are from legalizing it
  and accepting them ( cos is like u live in the UK). Maybe cos you know that you have a very baseless argument.
  Know that Only ignorant people think sexuality is chosen,  and they choose to believe that, because if they   admitted it was inborn, they could not continue to justify their hatred and condemnation.
  Why dont you hang or born one gay person or make one commit suicide. Maybe be you can rly know how hatred feels (Mr. morality and values)
           
               Science says homosexuality is natural.
               Religion says homosexuality is a choice.
                I think i will go with Science
               

go with science?

it is either we believe GOD, HIS word the bible, or all these wont make any meaning or sense.

GOD says You are wonderfully and fearfully made.
Science says You evolved, from an ape  bla bla bla

lets go wif GOD,


GOD says it is an ABOMINATION
Science say it has to do wif your gene/hormone!!!!!

God CANNOT be wrong.

@ amigoes

We don hear you. haba how many times you wan post am?

sorry 4 the multiple postings t'was the network.

michelin89:

@ amigoes

We don hear you. haba how many times you wan post am?

the network is unusually slow and unresponsive, it is not in my character,

amigoes:

sorry 4 the multiple postings t'was the network.

Each time it says Gate Away, note that the post has already been posted. So just go back to the topic and you'll see your comment.

If we have to go wif Science, I am sure that very soon Science will establish (if not done already) that Bestiality is normal and natural!

Walking Out Of Homosexuality
By Joe Hallett




What I remember most from my childhood is a deep hunger to be loved. My father ruled our home with a tyrannical self-interest, and I was the frequent target of his bitter sarcasm. No matter how I tried to please him, nothing I ever did was good enough.

Gradually I began to look to other men for love.

For many years I would cut out pictures of men from magazines and hide them under my mattress. I would take them out at night and create whole worlds in my head. Worlds where these men would love me and care for me as my father never did. Initially there was nothing sexual in these fantasies - only a son desperately longing for the love of a father.

In the real world I had a crush on any man who was kind to me. It didn't matter whether he was a teacher, a bill collector, or a grocery store clerk - I was open and vulnerable to anyone that showed an interest in me. When I discovered sex with some neighborhood boys at the age of ten, it felt exciting and dangerous at the same time. I didn't want to say no to them because I'd never received so much attention from anyone in my life. Finally I was wanted for something, even if I felt dirty and humiliated afterwards.

But I knew it was wrong, and it wasn't just society telling me. Something deep within me immediately recognized the wrong, but being used sexually was better than being ignored. I saw myself as unlovable, ugly, and stupid - all the things my father said about me. I was bad. And the worse I felt about myself, the more I would return to sex to find that distorted sense of self-worth.

At first there was the basic need for the love of a father, but then sex became a way to fill my need for intimacy. Little by little homosexual relationships became my only way of coping with emptiness. Sex became my comfort, even though it was a false comfort. In my desperate search for male love, I unwittingly stepped into a deepening pit of lust and emotional dependency My high school years became a dark blend of fear and forbidden desire.

I was terrified. What if someone knew? What if someone found out? I felt so different from everyone else. I knew the gay jokes and the disgust that society heaped upon "them" - so I hid inside myself. I tried to be noticed for my music, my humor, or for anything other than sex. My heartfelt desire was to be acknowledged as a person, yet casual sex only deepened my suspicion that I was less than nothing.
A New Kind Of Freedom
When I finally left home to go to college, something unexpected happened. For a brief moment, I was cut free from my past. There was no one there who knew where I'd been, or what I was. My slate had been wiped clean - at least as far as other people were concerned.

Little did I know the scene was set for me to have a head-on collision with authentic Christianity. I had grown up in a "Christian" home - or so I thought. My family went to church every Sunday. I knew where God lived and what kind of people He hung out with, but I didn't know Him.

At college, some of the people I met told me God was not an all-powerful deity waiting to squish me like some kind of bug under His foot. They said Christianity wasn't a dry system of rules but a living, breathing relationship between me and the living God!

As a child I'd learned that God was distant and unreachable, yet here was a God who knew me better than I knew myself - and still loved me. If I reached out and took the gift of His love, He would cleanse me from all the sickness of my past.

I could not resist such love. I asked God into my life.
Falling Short Of The Glory Of God
Even though I had accepted Christ, I still refused to leave the homosexual lifestyle. Since I didn't know how to separate myself from it, I decided God would just have to accept me the way I was. Thus began the war between my love for God and my desire for homosexual relationships.

After two years of "living on the fence" - desiring God but also desiring men - I left college and moved to Minneapolis. It was a sort of a "Mecca" for homosexuals in the Midwest, and seemed like a safe place for me to live.

As we drove into the city for the first time, my aunt pointed out a gay bar and told me I would do well to avoid it. Unwittingly, she provided the answer to my most pressing question. I had arrived. Freedom was mine, and I threw myself into the gay world with full abandon. I belonged. I fit in.

At first I felt guilty, but gradually my conscience became quieter and duller. I convinced myself that it didn't matter how you loved, all that mattered was that you did love. Rules and regulations seemed to destroy the freedom love could bring. I continually told myself it was okay to be a homosexual.

I dove deeper and deeper into sin. I didn't realize I was drowning. Love and intimacy were elusive, but sex was available and cheap. The men were different - but the situation was the same. I was a tool to be used, not a person. I would go out in search of love, but time and time again I would return knowing that I was only desired for how well I could perform.

To the world, I was just another homosexual on the street. But God continued to keep the small flame in my heart burning.
A Second Chance
After living in Minneapolis and struggling for three years with student loans and other debts, I decided to join the army. My family thought I was crazy, but I was still on a desperate search for acceptance. I wanted to belong somewhere.

The Army sent me to a unit in Germany, and six months later I auditioned to sing with the Army Chorus in Europe. I was accepted and soon settled into my new assignment in Heidelberg.

I would like to say that I didn't continue in the gay lifestyle, but I did. Here I met a German named Claus and began my second live-in relationship. I didn't think life could get any better. I was singing before huge audiences in Europe and I was loved by a beautiful man. I had a life. I finally belonged.

But a strange thing was taking place. Even though I had the life I'd always dreamed of, I was growing increasingly restless. It was just about that time that the Lord sent an ambassador of His grace into my life. Actually, she was more like the "hound of heaven!" Her name was Debbie.

After many lengthy discussions about the Lord, Debbie began to invite me to her church. The first time, I turned her down. The following week she called again, and I made some excuse. But she continued to come to the barracks every Sunday morning. One month, two months, three months, four months went by - still she remained faithful. Finally, in the fifth month, I accepted her invitation. To be honest, I did this more out of frustration than from any real desire to go.

But her church was different from anything I'd ever known before. The people were truly friendly, and the service was alive -not so bound in ritual. That morning, an intense hunger for God awoke in me. I came away desiring to know the Lord in a new way.

So I began to go to church.
But He Is Strong
Yet I continually complained about having to give up the thing I desired most. One day before Sunday School class, I again rehearsed my complaint against God: If homosexuality was sin, then why didn't He take it away? After all, God was more than powerful enough to deal with my sin! I accused Him of not doing His part to deliver me from my struggle.

But that day the class was reading from the book of Jeremiah, and when it came my turn to read the words leapt off the page: " Why has my pain been perpetual and my wound incurable, refusing to be healed? Wilt Thou indeed be to me like a deceptive stream with water that is unreliable? Therefore, thus says the Lord: 'If you return, then I will restore you - before Me you will stand; and if you extract the precious from the worthless, you will become My spokesman." (Jer. 15:18,19)

The Spirit of God had rebuked me with my own mouth! I felt as if He had just dunked me in cold water. I was severely shaken, and began to pray in earnest that God would give me the desire to leave homosexuality behind for good.
No One Can Serve Two Masters
I knew I could no longer serve both God and my desire. Matthew 6:24 became the verse I couldn't forget: "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will hold to one and despise the other, "

But I didn't know how to change! I loved men. Everything about them attracted me - how could I give them up? I was so weak. I prayed that God would just give me the desire to leave Claus. That was all I had the strength to pray.

Two months later, while sitting alone in a gay bar in Berlin, I began to reflect on my life. None of my homosexual relationships had brought me closer to my true objective: an intimate loving relationship with a man.

I confessed my sin to God that day. I admitted that I had messed up my life and my sexuality. I vowed that, if He would change me, I would follow Him. But my vow was conditional. I told God that if He didn't change me by the end of two years, I was going back into homosexuality.

That day I began to walk a new way - but at first I stumbled badly. I fell many times, but eventually I did succeed in laying my sexual behavior down. But I was still terrified of being left alone. That fear dominated my every waking moment. Who would be my friend without me somehow "paying" them?

In answer to my terrifying fear of loneliness, God immediately began to provide the love and friendship I so desperately needed. He gave me a wonderful friend, Julia. She taught me about God, and we grew together by leaps and bounds. She even helped me do really gut-wrenching things like going to my lover's house and moving all my things. God knew I could never have done that alone, so He gave me a Christian friend to strengthen me in my weakness.

After that the Lord brought godly men into my life - men who demonstrated the pure love and acceptance I so desperately needed. These men put aside their own fears about reaching out to a man struggling with homosexuality. Thank God for their courage and unconditional love!

I'm sad to say many Christians are afraid to reach out to those trying to leave the gay lifestyle. It's true many homosexuals don't know how to relate to men on a non-sexual basis - but how will they learn if no one reaches out to them with real love and friendship?

Relationships with Christian brothers have helped me to walk in the light of God, and I know that will be true for others. The need for male love lures most men into homosexuality, and only the unconditional love of God's people will help lead them out of that desperate loneliness.
One Day At A Time
Laying down sinful desires is a very long process.

Although I'd given up the outward show of homosexuality in Germany, there was much I hadn't released. I still harbored a small hope that God would someday change His mind and make homosexuality okay!

Not many of us are willing to acknowledge the fact that it may take time to change. We live in an age where we're taught to want everything, and want it now! Everyone demands instant cures and easy answers. But sometimes those answers are not instantly forthcoming.

Too many people coming out of the gay lifestyle echo the same sentiment: "If Exodus or Outpost can't 'cure' me of homosexuality in six months, then forget it!" Each time I hear that I'm reminded of the very words I spoke to God back in Berlin.

Some people think you're not really saved if you still struggle with homosexual desire, but I don't believe that's true. All Christians struggle with the temptation to sin. We need to realize that a salvation experience is not a pre-frontal lobotomy or a substitute for exercising personal discipline. God does bring change, but not always instantaneously. And contrary to some popular belief, godly change does not always come about without pain or struggle.
A Tree Of Righteousness
A growing percentage of Christians, and even many unbelievers, think that believing in Christ should put an end to our struggle with sin.

But that is a lie.

God is interested in something much more important than our comfort - He is intent upon developing His eternal character within us. And He uses our daily struggles with the flesh to shape and define that character. God can and does use struggle and conflict to bring forth His glory in us.

As A. H. Strong once wrote:

"A student asked the president of his school whether he could take a shorter course than the one prescribed.

"Oh yes," replied the president. "But then it depends on what you want to be. When God wants to make an oak, He takes a hundred years. But when He wants to make a squash, He takes six months."

I hope you want to be an oak.
Seeking God For Comfort
Although my sexual liaisons with men ended seven years ago, I am still imperfect.

When I give in to despair or refuse to seek God for comfort, then I find myself most vulnerable to my old romantic dreams. My fleshly desires still continue to war against my desire for the peace and righteousness of God.

Most of us want to be able to switch off our sinful natures like we switch off a light bulb - but I don't think that's a very realistic attitude towards salvation. My desperate need for God's strength keeps me incredibly close to Him. Like a child on a busy city street, I know that if I let go of His hand - even for a moment - I'll get hit by a bus.

I am still a sinner who struggles with his flesh, but I'm being changed daily. I used to think Christianity was just God's scoreboard for keeping track of all my sins. But now that I've walked with the Lord for several years, I know that Christianity simply means total dependence on the love and forgiving mercy of my Father in heaven.

"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name; you are Mine! When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers they will not over flow you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, nor will the flame burn you. For I am the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior." (Is. 43:1-3)
For Your Light Has Come
God's love is reaching out to each one of us through the brokenness of our hearts and lives. But the question is: Will we trust Him even when it hurts? In Jesus, I have found Someone that I can give my whole self to - body, soul, and spirit. In Him I have placed my trust. So now I can say of all men I am the most fortunate, because I know where my hope lies: Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.

"Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him." (Rom. 4:7,
DO YOU WANT HELP?
There are concerned people who know what you're going through and know how to help. Many of them have been set free from homosexuality themselves and would love to help you in any way they can. If you or someone you love is struggling with homosexuality, you can receive helpful literature, counseling and possibly information about support groups in your area. Just write one of the groups listed below. We love you and pray that you will be willing to reach out for help!

Exodus International
P. O. Box 540119
Orlando, FL 32854

Exodus Europe
CP 6, CH-1239
Collex, SWITZERLAND

True Freedom Trust
P. O. Box 13
Prenton, Wirral
CH43 6BY UK

Exodus Asia Pacific
P. O. Box 1882
4064 Milton
Queensland, AUSTRALIA

Outpost, Inc.
PO Box 22429
Robbinsdale, MN 55422-0429
763-592-4700
FAX : 763-592-4701
Outpost_inc@email.msn.com

Love In Action
P.O. Box 753307
Memphis, TN 38175

Sy & Karen Rogers
c/o Steiger International
P.O. Box 1186
Northampton, MA 01060


©Last Days Ministries
825 College Blvd.
Suite 102, #333
Oceanside, CA 92057
Phone: 1-800-228-9536
Toll free Fax (U.S. only): 1-877-228-9536
Fax for International: 1-760-806-3673

@ amigoes

Sorry to say that but you are boring. Not so different from any christians I see on the street. You don't reason with your head.

You thinks things are right, because a book says so.

Dogmatic and boring.

michelin89:

@ amigoes

Sorry to say that but you are boring. Not so different from any christians I see on the street. You don't reason with your head.

You thinks things are right, because a book says so.

Dogmatic and boring.

Thanks a lot.

If you reason with your head when it comes to spiritual things you will miss it.
That is why Christians like you said are boring and dogmatic.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. ICor2/14

But people who aren’t spiritual[a] can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means.

Try to picture Moses at the red sea. God said proceed, he did. The sea parted.
Rmbr I earlier said it is either we take the Bible as the infallible word of GOD or we are wasting our time.

Hating xtians wont solve the prob on ground. CAN A PERSON BE BORN GAY?
NO.
It is all satanic deception,
making you feel justified,
helpless about your situation,
it is not my fault kind of a thing, that's the way GOD created me!!!
It is all satanic deception/lies.

God can help you and HE will help you if you really ask HIM.

And lest I forget, the BIBLE is not just a book, it is more than that. Get the booklet titled "A letter for you"

the booklet,

JeSoul:

  to both of my brothers
  Yes it most definitely can. While I will not presume to know what & how gays feel nor the degree of the intensity of those feelings, it doesn't alter the fact they still choose to act on those intense feelings.

I agree with you on this, but maybe I wasn't clear - many people regard their sexuality as a defining part of their character, of whom they are as it were, similar to their gender. Now in this case, how can something regarded as 'intrinsic' to who you are be something you 'choose'?

The argument here (I have heard it a number of times) is that sexuality (either homosexual or heterosexual) whether acted upon or not, remains who you are in a sense. For example - priests who vow to celibacy are deciding not to have sex, not denying they feel a desire for sex or asking the Holy Spirit to take away a sinful desire.

 Its one thing to have urges of even the most consuming kind, and it is another to give in to them. And I do submit and appreciate that these people were probably unable to resist of their own strength and I don't hold that against them. The way I see it, its only by the strength of the Holy Spirit any sin can be conquered so it is expected that they will fail in trying to overcome it by their own power.

This is not in doubt when the urge is regarded as 'unnatural' to the person involved. Basically what I am saying is, I will never feel the urge to resist my heterosexuality as I believe that is normal. Can it also be the same for homosexuals? Is it the ACT itself that makes one homosexual or hetero or is it the desire or 'natural leaning' as some gays claim it is?

 I would attribute those urges to the sinful nature. If we all have it, then we all will struggle at the feet of some particular sins - unfortunately theirs happens to be the very unpopular homosexuality.

I agree with you on this, especially in the case of someone as Ted Haggart who felt his own case as a temptation pushing him away from the natural form of heterosexuality. My question really about those individuals who claim to have never had sexual desire towards the opposite sex and regard homosexuality as their 'default' or 'primary' state which cannot be 'separated'. Is there something to this or have they simply deluded themselves to the point that they insist it is their natural state?

ILOCHUDI:

Discover Magazine has shown that "Two of the most convincing studies have proved conclusively that sexual orientation in men has a genetic cause."

New Scientist has shown that "geneticists may have explained how genes apparently linked to male homosexuality survive" and "Mothers' genetic skew linked to gay sons."

LiveScience has shown that "The arrangement of a mother's genes could affect the sexual orientation of her son, according to a new study."

Scientific American has shown that "Having Older Brothers Increases a Man's Odds of Being Gay."

WebMD has shown that magnetic resonance imaging studies reveal key differences in the brains of gay and straight men and women that could add to the understanding of the biology of homosexuality.

Dr. Francis Collins of the Human Genome Project said "The evidence we have at present strongly supports the proposition that there are hereditary factors in male homosexuality — the observation that an identical twin of a male homosexual has approximately a 20% likelihood of also being gay points to this conclusion, since that is 10 times the population incidence." as well as "No one has yet identified an actual gene that contributes to the hereditary component, but it is likely that such genes will be found in the next few years."
      Source(s):
      http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/bor,
      http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn65,
      http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?i,
      http://www.livescience.com/health/060224,
      http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=havi,
      http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20080616,

As I observed earlier, you are way too stupid for me to be debating with.

You clearly can not differentiate between a scientific theorem (the gay ones are usually from fellow gays/deviant) and a scientific fact. You are obviously one of those that will believe anything stated to you by anyone as long as they have a PhD at the end of their name because "he must be a god to be able to obtain a PhD", Hell, I even think you will believe anything I say and refuse to challenge it if I add MP3 at the end of my name.

I guess due to your likely sexuality, it is also convenient not to challenge any rubbish thrown out there that supports you.

Here is the introduction of people that you should be chatting at their level, contact them:

OneNaija - https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=281832.msg4000754#msg4000754

Horus - https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=280685.msg3998791#msg3998791

You can have the "beauty" of creating the first Moronic Debating Marathon.

i come quickly, even so amen

debosky:

I agree with you on this, but maybe I wasn't clear - many people regard their sexuality as a defining part of their character, of whom they are as it were, similar to their gender. Now in this case, how can something regarded as 'intrinsic' to who you are be something you 'choose'?

I would say as sincere as they might feel, we know from the bible that they are wrong. That's really what it comes down to for us christians isn't it?

This is not in doubt when the urge is regarded as 'unnatural' to the person involved. Basically what I am saying is, I will never feel the urge to resist my heterosexuality as I believe that is normal. Can it also be the same for homosexuals?

  It very well could be and probably is for many of them. But then again, you can believe something with all your heart and soul and mind, but still be dead wrong.

Is it the ACT itself that makes one homosexual or hetero or is it the desire or 'natural leaning' as some gays claim it is?

   While I would say in general acting on the desires is in essense committing the sin - same as with many other sins. However I'll add Jesus said all you need do is look lustfully on another and you'd be guilty of sin. Many people struggle with the sin and resist, others embrace it wholeheartedly - this latter set in my mind is what makes one homosexual.

I agree with you on this, especially in the case of someone as Ted Haggart who felt his own case as a temptation pushing him away from the natural form of heterosexuality. My question really about those individuals who claim to have never had sexual desire towards the opposite sex and regard homosexuality as their 'default' or 'primary' state which cannot be 'separated'. Is there something to this or have they simply deluded themselves to the point that they insist it is their natural state?

  lol, I lean heavily on the side of the "delusion"  I recall one time I was arguing with my elder brother about a scene in a cartoon. He said "A" happened and I said no "B" happened. Infact I was so sure and 100% certain and was fully convinced in my mind far beyond a shadow of doubt. We watched the video and yup, I was dead wrong.

  Another time I had to take lessons for school when I much younger which I hated. I lied to my mum it started at 5pm instead 4 so I'd get there late and miss the boring class. I repeated the lie a few times before the day came that eventually it became real to me. The day finally arrived and I walked into the class, I was genuinely shocked that they had already started, infact it took a few minutes before I realized & remembered I lied & the lie had become real and true to me - and I never forgot it. Infact taking psychology in college there was a section on this very phenomenon, were we convince ourselves of things that never happened.

  So the point of the anecdotal diversion above is that while I know nuthin of what its like to walk in the shoes of a gay person, this I know, that you can be sincere, but be sincerely wrong. And that their lifestyle choice is wrong, regardless of how convinced they are it was the way they were created. They could've felt this way forever, or deluded themselves into it - doesn't matter, they're still wrong.

How do you know it's a delusion or do you just want to belief it's a delusion?

To say that people are born gay or perverted is to blame God for tempting or making people gay or perverted.

There are many temptations and immoral influences that incline folks towards sexual immorality. Is there temptation in the

womb? No. But there are what we Jews call the yetzer tov and the yetzer hara the good and evil inclination respectively.

Humans beings have the tendency to do(choose) good and evil based on knowledge. Those who are practising sexual

immorality have CHOSEN it. But there is also the issue of corruption and coersion. Many people have found themselves being

coersed or forced into sexual impurity. May YHVH God cleanse them. These people are not guilty according to the Torah or the

Law. But if a person gives themselves willing to impure sex pleasures like "homosexuality/lesbianism" they are guilty and

liable to punishment.

To say that people are born queer is to say there is temptation in the womb. I very much doubt that there is

temptation in the womb. God the YHVH does not make people queer. Some people become queer because they

enjoy the impure sex pleasures of Babylon. It is choice between good and evil. The queer lifestyle is a trap of ha

satan set up to lead many into the wrath of The YHVH. God hates sin and sinners because they go against his holy

will for humanity. Gods teachings in the Torah( Old testament) are clearly against the queer lifestyle.

I must be quite blunt here. The notion that people are 'born gay' is nothing less than The Big Lie of the entire homosexual movement. Science has not proven that there is a 'gay gene' or that people are 'born gay No one is born gay. All scientific studies including those by gay scientists, have not found any gay gene or gay brain center. There is no medical test for a gay gene. There is no scientific or DNA test for sexual orientation. Ex-gays are living proof that homosexual orientation is not fixed permanently."

what about ex-heterosexuals who turned gay?

what do they prove?

bawomolo:

what about ex-heterosexuals who turned gay?

what do they prove?

that broken hearts can cause you to make some horrible decisions

@amigoes
   Man it will be a wonderful thing if you rly have or know a cure ( or help as u put it) for gays.
  My brother why not make it public, or prove it, so at least many people will not be suffering from the problem or maybe disease, and you can make good money if you patent it you know.
  why is all the cure claiming to be spiritual? that means maybe non-christians and sinners wont get a share. Why not medical cure(since it is a defect, and that is how something that you are very such of works).
If you rly have a cure to it, bring it up to the world stage and very well prove your points and experiments

@sagamite
thank you very much man. It rly seems to me that you are rly scared of something, or is it just pure HATRED?
Have a good day

JeSoul:

I would say as sincere as they might feel, we know from the bible that they are wrong. That's really what it comes down to for us christians isn't it?

That is my belief as well, but the passion with which this is apparently fought (as against other sins such as lying, fornication and the like) makes me think there needs to be conclusive 'evidence' as it were to close this out.

  It very well could be and probably is for many of them. But then again, you can believe something with all your heart and soul and mind, but still be dead wrong.
   While I would say in general acting on the desires is in essense committing the sin - same as with many other sins. However I'll add Jesus said all you need do is look lustfully on another and you'd be guilty of sin. Many people struggle with the sin and resist, others embrace it wholeheartedly - this latter set in my mind is what makes one homosexual.

So you believe it's this 'embracing' it that makes you gay not necessarily the 'feeling' itself? I don't know about you ladies, but us men can feel instant attraction (or arousal ) towards a woman we see - this isn't a decision per se, but a 'natural reaction'. It's this type of occurrence I was seeking to talk about. What defines one truly as homosexual or heterosexual?

  lol, I lean heavily on the side of the "delusion"  I recall one time I was arguing with my elder brother about a scene in a cartoon. He said "A" happened and I said no "B" happened. Infact I was so sure and 100% certain and was fully convinced in my mind far beyond a shadow of doubt. We watched the video and yup, I was dead wrong.


  So the point of the anecdotal diversion above is that while I know nuthin of what its like to walk in the shoes of a gay person, this I know, that you can be sincere, but be sincerely wrong. And that their lifestyle choice is wrong, regardless of how convinced they are it was the way they were created. They could've felt this way forever, or deluded themselves into it - doesn't matter, they're still wrong.

I also agree with the power of delusion, but somehow I worry it might not be that clear cut. Some people genuinely (as far as I know anyways) feel a deep conflict about their sexuality and even gender. When you term it as wrong, is it something they have committed themselves or is simply thrust upon them by no choice of theirs (e.g as part of the sinful nature)

debosky:

That is my belief as well, but the passion with which this is apparently fought (as against other sins such as lying, fornication and the like) makes me think there needs to be conclusive 'evidence' as it were to close this out.

  I hear you mr brother, these people are zealous! and I think we can safely say they will only garner even more momentum as time passes.

So you believe it's this 'embracing' it that makes you gay not necessarily the 'feeling' itself?

Yeah, embracing it and throwing oneself entirely into it - I believe that's a different category from another person who's genuinely struggling with the thots but still resisting & refusing to partake of the act.

I don't know about you ladies, but us men can feel instant attraction (or arousal ) towards a woman we see - this isn't a decision per se, but a 'natural reaction'. It's this type of occurrence I was seeking to talk about. What defines one truly as homosexual or heterosexual?

   hehe  so I've heard  . . .  and uhmm it's like that for women too - sometimes 
Feeling instant attraction isn't wrong, not in my view. Its what you do with the thots thereafter that makes it either sinful or not. For instance I see your picture and say to myself he's drop dead handsome  but then move on and don't dwell on the thots - perfectly natural reaction. But if I begin to entertain and dive into lustful thots then it is sin. 
 

I also agree with the power of delusion, but somehow I worry it might not be that clear cut. Some people genuinely (as far as I know anyways) feel a deep conflict about their sexuality and even gender. When you term it as wrong, is it something they have committed themselves or is simply thrust upon them by no choice of theirs (e.g as part of the sinful nature)

  You're right in that few things are ever completely 'clear cut'. To me feeling a conflict about it is a sign that their conscience doing its job. That's why now I feel sorry more than anything for those of homosexual persuation. That they happened to be the unfortunate ones to struggle with this unpopular sin - whether by choice or not or thru no 'fault' of theirs.
  But my brother you know what the bible says: "All have sinned" and "there is not one righteous" Adam and eve made us all guilty and we're all suffering the consequences - especially our gay brethren.