Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? - Religion (9)

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Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? - Religion (9) - Nairaland

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Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by porka: 4:48pm On Jun 05, 2009

Chrisbenogor:

That is what I have been trying to say, dont you think that is how gross it is for them to feel that towards the opposite sex?

The brain does wonders my dear.

sir, what part of the brain controls having sex with ones mother?

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by Secretz(f): 4:49pm On Jun 05, 2009

porka:

i don't know what this thread is aimed at. i have followed it with keen interest and there are few questions i need to ask.

1) if gays or homosexuals are claiming to have gay genes would they have been born in the first place? genes are support to be passed from parent to offspring. it reminds me of two eunuchs in my community, they were (both are dead now) from the same parent. some of the village folks said they inherited it from their parents. pray, how could a parent have seered eunuchs if he were a eunuch himself.

2) [b]are pedophiles and people who practice incest and those who have sex with dogs and horses born with that "condition"? i mean, i know a guy who said he first had sex with him mother and he in turn had sex with his own daughter. he seems to have that gene passed down from generations according to him.

3) what is the actual population of homosexuals? i don't think they are more than a handful in any society, europe or no europe.

4) and since the poster comes from a christian perspective, what is the position of the bible in this. from 1 cor 6:9-10 can we say thieves were born thieves? are drunkards born drunkards? should we say fornicators are born to fornicate?

these are just a few questions that we need to find answers to.[/b]

Paedophiles are not born that way. In my previous employment I had to work with these deranged people, interview them etc. More often than not a paedophile is one due to his emotional and mental background and upbringing. A lot of them were abused as children, or witnessed it. Their case I believe is cultural, society and an environmental factor.

I don't believe in my hearts of hearts people were 'born' gay. I don't believe God made them that way at all. However, I work with children, and I tell you some of the boy's behaviours are extremely feminine, playing with dolls, dressing up in dresses, high heels, jewellery,make up etc. We are taught as teachers not to choose toys for the children, let them play with whatever they want. undecided

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by JeSoul(f): 4:55pm On Jun 05, 2009

Chrisbenogor:

I give you that if you say biblically, but again you see that we cannot really tell if they should change or not.

How do you mean? I don't have to be theif to tell a theif what he's doing is wrong do I? by biblical standards my brother, you should stay what you are and be with a member of the opposite sex.

You did not have any input whatsoever to become a girl did you? can you say you are a partaker of being a girl ( I wonder how that sounds but I hope it gets my point across) People's genetic disorders are no fault of their own, the fact that the particular sequence has not been separated does not mean it might not be there.

I knew that "partakers" word might be problematic. The point is Chris whether or not they had a hand or active voice and participation in their current predicatment is irrelevant. The fact is they are in the wrong biblically.
And until the 'gay gene' is identified you must appreciate why we skeptics will not be biting on that bone.

That is what I have been trying to say, dont you think that is how gross it is for them to feel that towards the opposite sex?

The brain does wonders my dear.

lol

I don't doubt they feel very convinced about the way that they feel - I'm not contending that at all. But one can be very sincere, but be sincerely wrong.

@Secretz,
na wa for all this kin people wey you dey work with cheesy

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by JJYOU: 4:57pm On Jun 05, 2009

porka:

i don't know what this thread is aimed at. i have followed it with keen interest and there are few questions i need to ask.

1) if gays or homosexuals are claiming to have gay genes would they have been born in the first place? genes are support to be passed from parent to offspring. it reminds me of two eunuchs in my community, they were (both are dead now) from the same parent. some of the village folks said they inherited it from their parents. pray, how could a parent have seered eunuchs if he were a eunuch himself.

2) are pedophiles and people who practice incest and those who have sex with dogs and horses born with that "condition"? i mean, i know a guy who said he first had sex with him mother and he in turn had sex with his own daughter. he seems to have that gene passed down from generations according to him.
[b]
3) what is the actual population of homosexuals? i don't think they are more than a handful in any society, europe or no europe.

4) and since the poster comes from a christian perspective, what is the position of the bible in this. from 1 cor 6:9-10 can we say thieves were born thieves? are drunkards born drunkards? should we say fornicators are born to fornicate?

these are just a few questions that we need to find answers to.[/b]

the homosexual lobby is a tiny but very aggressive and vocal minority. they use the media to make it seems like the whole world isat it. it is a big lie and con on the weak and gulible.

JeSoul:

lol make sure you don't have any weapons nearby at all times . . .
You're right its easy to tell someone else what to do when you yourself haven't gone thru it. However my brother easy or not easy for me to say, it is still the right thing for them to do - biblically.
I don't think we should ever be in the business of assigning blame but moreso about addressing and fixing the problem. Whether or not its their fault, it doesn't change the fact they are partakers of a gross deviation from the natural.
lol see as Chris flipped the question on me Insert a big, emphatic NO! I have been hit on by other women and honestly it is just flat out disgusting and unsettling. Temptation usually comes to me disguised as a handsome son of adam to that I'll plead guilty all day.

being tempted is not sin it is yielding that is sin. we all get tempted on a daily basis

JeSoul:

Well there is no conclusive, solid proof or evidence of homosexuality being linked to ones genes so for now their claims will remain just claims.
That's the problem & the question. Spiritually speaking, they are also born with a sinful nature like the rest of us . . . but yet only some become those things. Is it the same for homosexuals? Can we blame it on the sinful nature?

I don't know the exact figures but it varies from place to place. SanFran is way likely to have a higher population of homosexuals than say Alabama
Thanks for including scripture here. The fact that the bible lumps homosexuality with the other sins should tell us something right? If its a sin like the others then its also product of the sinful nature, right? albeit a very nasty product.

People are arguing saying homosexuality is learned from societal influences but I'm wondering if its not just another side effect from having the sinful nature? along with stealing, fornicating etc - that's the point of the thread my dear.

it is mainly sinful nature not societal. back in the early 70's in a boarding school in good ole naija there were boys and girls having this lifestyle. sadly one of the ladies is full fledged lesbian in london today. someone told me one other guy is too in northern naija. i cannot see anything in the village that pushed them towards towards that lifestyle not the water nor the people. within the last week i think i have seeen 2 guys here saying theor wives have beeen discovered to be lesbos so it looks it is open season in naija.

someone i know had to divorce the wife some yrs back because she wount leave women alone. the betrayal still eats him away today almost 8yrs plus. why cant they just stay un married rather than get kids and others involved.

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by Secretz(f): 5:00pm On Jun 05, 2009

JeSoul:

@Secretz,
na wa for all this kin people wey you dey work with

abii oooo!!! I have worked with children who get emotional and behaviour difficulties (those who have been excluded etc)

I have worked in a prison undecided

I have worked with disabled children.

I'm telling you, all these experiences have given me serious insight on a lot of society/religious issues. It's not always as it seems. wink

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by mnwankwo(m): 5:05pm On Jun 05, 2009

Several years ago in Nigeria, their was a philosophical discussion on NTA. The topic was the igbo phenomenon called "Ogbanje". "Ogbanje" in Igbo belief system is a form of reincarnation where such souls incarnate as babies to torment their families and it is said that they have some supernatural powers. Among the panelists were a very popular pentecostal preacher, a biologist and a reverend father that built his calling on investigating the paranormal. The penticostal preacher said that "Ogbanje" is the work of evil forces and demons and has no power over a true believer. The biologist smiled and called the "Ogbanje" phenomenon naked superstition. The revered father looked at his fellow panelists and the moderator and said " Just pray to God that his grace prevents you from having children that are Ogbanje". I hope that this television discussion of several years ago will induce some reflection and encourage discussants not to simplify a very complex phenomenon like homosexuality.

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by porka: 5:08pm On Jun 05, 2009

JeSoul:

People are arguing saying homosexuality is learned from societal influences but I'm wondering if its not just another side effect from having the sinful nature? along with stealing, fornicating etc - that's the point of the thread my dear.

i don't have problem with the argument about human degeneracy. human nature is weak, it is easily influenced by anything. for instance, a child raised in sierra leone during the war may not have scruples carrying an ak47. if he becomes a killer it means he's been influenced by seeing people killed everyday. the same way folks who went to mixed schools would find it funny when they see gays.

make no mistakes, these guys picked up this despicable behavior from the society. if you grew up in my dad's house, for instance, you are not likely to be a thief even though you could have some other vices, but definitely not larceny.

the point is very clear, sodomy is a product of the society. people who claim they are attracted to the same sex are saying that because there are same sex in their society who are willing to have sex with them.

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by olufunlola: 5:19pm On Jun 05, 2009

I will never agree to the fact that some peolpe are born gay,that they couldn't choose their sexuality.REASON:King David said he was conceived in sin but he chose the right way-the way of the Lord.
Remember Joshua told the children of Israel that God has set before them two ways so they should choose the way of life and be saved.So any gay has that right to choose whatever they want for themselves.That's why we are not animals but created in the image of GOD!

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by erico2k2(m): 5:42pm On Jun 05, 2009

olufunlola:

I will never agree to the fact that some peolpe are born gay,that they couldn't choose their sexuality.REASON:King David said he was conceived in sin but he chose the right way-the way of the Lord.
Remember Joshua told the children of Israel that God has set before them two ways so they should choose the way of life and be saved.So any gay has that right to choose whatever they want for themselves.That's why we are not animals but created in the image of GOD!

True talk my friend, But have you stopped to think that your answers above is only true for those who believe in God and the Bible? for those of other faith who done believe in the Bible what answer have you got for them? my advice to you is since you got the Net at your finger tips, try do a lil bit of research in Genetics Ok, U will see that everything in it is direct opposit to whats in the Bible.But then, thier studies saves lives round the world.

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by erico2k2(m): 5:45pm On Jun 05, 2009

olufunlola:

I will never agree to the fact that some peolpe are born gay,that they couldn't choose their sexuality.REASON:King David said he was conceived in sin but he chose the right way-the way of the Lord.
Remember Joshua told the children of Israel that God has set before them two ways so they should choose the way of life and be saved.So any gay has that right to choose whatever they want for themselves.That's why we are not animals but created in the image of GOD!

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by porka: 6:17pm On Jun 05, 2009

m_nwankwo:

I hope that this television discussion of several years ago will induce some reflection and encourage discussants not to simplify a very complex phenomenon like homosexuality.

[b]oga, you have not said which side of the divide you belong. there is nothing complex in homosexuality. it is a sin from christian perspective. it is despicable and immoral from moral perspective. it is results to untold consequences from health perspective, including hiv/aids, mental disorder, suicidal tendencies etc. controversial yes, but not complex.

boys who dress in girls’ attire and play with dolls simply come from homes filled with girls. the same way a girl who has boys as siblings would likely be a tomboy. there is nothing so special about this homosexual thing except you have anything we haven’t heard before. there is not a single argument by this group that has not been punctured by reason, science and religion. btw, ogbanje is simply one of the supesuperstitiousieves of the dark continental africans.

the only thing i can see is the media influence. politicians and media big boys indulge in it and want to force all of us to accept it or look the other way. it won’t happen, for every 1million dollars spent on this project, there are 10 million dollars against it. for every powerful politician in favor of this nonsense, (including perhaps barack obama) there are more fierce super politician against it (including, benedict xvi) for every show biz personality in Hollywood, (including ellen degeneres), there are more crowd pulling artistes and personals (including eminem).

an overwhelming majority of americans are certainly against, europeans don’t have the guts to test their population through referendum on this issue; they are usually afraid of losing in any matter anyway – including the lisbon treaty.

and for us in the continent, nothing is as dead on arrival as this, no matter what kite anybody is flying. just yesterday, one ubani from the national assembly attempted to test the waters on bbc africa-have-your-say. am sure he under-estimated the resolve of black people across the continent even though he wanted to introduce it through the backdoor, he was roundly rejected by participants. [/b]

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by DrLorenz1(m): 6:24pm On Jun 05, 2009

porka:

[color=#990000]i don't have problem with the argument about human degeneracy. human nature is weak, it is easily influenced by anything. for instance, a child raised in sierra leone during the war may not have scruples carrying an ak47. if he becomes a killer it means he's been influenced by seeing people killed everyday. the same way folks who went to mixed schools would find it funny when they see gays.

I've seen a Sierra Leonean, who's afraid of guns, even though he saw death face to face. As for people who went to mixed school finding it funny when they see gays is true because [b]most [/b]girls that go to an only girls school get to learn lesbianism there. I've seen proof cus one of such schools is very close to where i live and i've met their students who are lesbians. The same goes for the ones that went to an all boys school.

In the same vein, the saying that curiousity is what killed the cat is true too. Sometimes, wanting to understand their "dilenma" often leads to being "affected" with the "so-called" gene. I know of a friend's uncle who is not an homosexual. He told me that he wasn't always like that. He became that way because he wanted to know what homosexuality is all about. He later got to find out that the more he asked, the more he found himself becoming one. He actually told me not to ask. Of course i never asked and i ran away from him since that day, especially when he started making some moves.

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by DrLorenz1(m): 6:43pm On Jun 05, 2009

Sorry but the thread is posted under religion. I didn't know Christianity = religion.

*roll eyes* at your christiancentric self.

Christiancentric self. What exactly does that mean? Like i didn't know. If you knew, y did you say "As an Atheist" in the first place? *Thinks you've got two tongues*. Post what you mean and mean what you post amigo.

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by bawomolo(m): 6:55pm On Jun 05, 2009

And until the 'gay gene' is identified you must appreciate why we skeptics will not be biting on that bone.

is there an heterosexual gene? if not, why are you so confident heterosexuality is natural and homosexuality isn't?

The hypocrisy in this thread is alarming. We are making judgment on gays, lesbians, transgendered people without taking their point of view into account.

He later got to find out that the more he asked, the more he found himself becoming one

in other words, it took contact with homos before you Uncle came out of the closet.

You are an idiot if you think watching a tv show or talking with gays would turn u homo. they are not lepers for God sake.

what's wrong with you bigots?

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by C2H5OH(f): 6:59pm On Jun 05, 2009

this thread is still at it cheesy

the word "genetic disorder" keeps popping out left and right by those who think people can be born gay. i guess they themselves believe that these people are birth defects.

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by bawomolo(m): 7:03pm On Jun 05, 2009

quick to generalize aren't you?

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by C2H5OH(f): 7:09pm On Jun 05, 2009

lol, never that.

bawomolo:

is there an heterosexual gene? if not, why are you so confident heterosexuality is natural and homosexuality isn't?

The hypocrisy in this thread is alarming. We are making judgment on gays, lesbians, transgendered people without taking their point of view into account.

is there a bestial gene? are governments unduly punishing people for something they have no control over? a narcissistic gene?

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by bawomolo(m): 7:13pm On Jun 05, 2009

C2H5OH:

lol, never that.
is there a bestial gene? are governments unduly punishing people for something they have no control over? a narcissistic gene?

a gene that makes you mate with another specie? well go look for that one.

government isn't punishing them for lack of control but for the committing an act without consent.

if the goat can say f me, then ummeee away

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by Nobody: 7:14pm On Jun 05, 2009

C2H5OH:

lol, never that.
is there a bestial gene? are governments unduly punishing people for something they have no control over? a narcissistic gene?

Uh it's all a matter of control. So if that's the case: I can't control my preference but I can control my acts, right?

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by C2H5OH(f): 7:16pm On Jun 05, 2009

lmaoOOO hilarious.
a personal's birthed urge to mate with an animal is being prosecuted because the animal can't say fme? what if different variations of "meee" means Bleep me in animal language?

kind of hard to ask an animal for consent, isn't it?

grin

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by C2H5OH(f): 7:21pm On Jun 05, 2009

michelin89:

Uh it's all a matter of control. So if that's the case: I can't control my preference but I can control my acts, right?

control plays a role in the action, not the preference. control plays a role in who a human being expresses his/her self with sexually.
our argument is that the bestial person is born that way, therefore he has no preferential control over who he is to mate with.
it only ever crosses the perv's diseased mind naturally that the only acceptable mating partner is an animal.

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by bawomolo(m): 7:21pm On Jun 05, 2009

C2H5OH:

lmaoOOO hilarious.
a personal's birthed urge to mate with an animal is being prosecuted because the animal can't say fme? what if different variations of "meee" means Bleep me in animal language?

kind of hard to ask an animal for consent, isn't it?

the reason bestiality is illegal genius

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by chiogo(f): 7:24pm On Jun 05, 2009

bawomolo:

is there an heterosexual gene? if not, why are you so confident heterosexuality is natural and homosexuality isn't?

In a way, there is a heterosexual gene. Without heterosexual intercourse, there will be no reproduction, including that of homosexuals. How natural can heterosexuality get since it's the reason for human existence?. Are you even gay? this one you're fighting the obvious. undecided

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by C2H5OH(f): 7:27pm On Jun 05, 2009

bawomolo:

the reason bestiality is illegal genius

the point is, by that argument people are being punished for their natural desire.

plants are living organisms, aren't they? do they consent to being plowed or extracted in any way?

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by Secretz(f): 7:27pm On Jun 05, 2009

bawomolo:

quick to generalize aren't you?

I think a lot of us are guilty of this to be honest.

Someone mentioned earlier about going to single sex schools having an affect, and boys playing with 'girly' toys simply have a lot of females in their home etc etc.

1. I grew up with 6 brothers and too many uncles. . . . .granted I was 'tomboyish' during my primary school and early teens, but I am now just an IRON lady tongue

2. I also went to a single sex school, NEVER EVER have me or my friends and anyone we knew had lesbian 'tendencies'. My brothers also went to single sex schools, barr 1, neither of them have ever had gay 'tendencies'.

3. There are 2 particular young boys I work with who enjoy playing with 'girly' toys, dressing up in girls clothes etc etc. One of them has 3 brothers, the other has 2 brothers and a sister (not a house full of females). undecided

4. My gay colleague and his twin brother who is also gay, went to mixed sex schools, they also have 2 sisters (who are straight). One of the brothers liked 'masculine/boys' toys etc, the other wasn't really interested in toys etc, but yet they have felt this way supposedly 'since they could remember'. undecided

Therefore, I dunno . . . . . just, therefore. grin

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by Nobody: 7:39pm On Jun 05, 2009

C2H5OH:

control plays a role in the action, not the preference. control plays a role in who a human being expresses his/her self with sexually.
our argument is that the bestial person is born that way, therefore he has no preferential control over who he is to mate with.
it only ever crosses the perv's diseased mind naturally that the only acceptable mating partner is an animal.

Let's not digress too much and focus on human attraction to other humans.

Bestiality is a perversion that would require a whole thread to be discussed. We are talking about homos and whatever genetic cause might have made them that way.

You maintain your position: situations and circumstances leads to homosexuality and any other abnormal behaviour (we are yet to acertain what behaviour are to be considered normal).

Eg: so if all my friends smoke, I am likely to smoke right? Do you think for once that despite my friends smoke, I might hate the act but still roll with my friends?

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by JeSoul(f): 7:48pm On Jun 05, 2009

bawomolo:

is there an heterosexual gene? if not, why are you so confident heterosexuality is natural and homosexuality isn't?

Are you going to such ridiculous lengths to try to win the argument?

Who on this thread is looney enough to even attempt to argue that heterosexuality is not the natural order? and homosexuality the deviation? shocked

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by C2H5OH(f): 7:50pm On Jun 05, 2009

to avoid digression then we should get back on topic.
what we are aspiring to prove here is that homosexuality is genetic.
again, the pro gay orthodoxy that people are born gay is equivalent to saying a gene is responsible for sexual orientation.
all i need is proof.

if you can differentiate between a straight baby and a gay baby at birth i wil forfeit all other points.

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by dejiariyo: 7:51pm On Jun 05, 2009

pls pple i wanna ask this question, why does gay men use mens toilets?why dont they have thier toilet cos its just hyprocricy when u say u not stright but u use the same toilet as straight pple, why cant they just go into female toilets cos they are more of the feminine side.

my point again is i dont have anything against u gays, but if u gay do it in ur bedroom no one will fault yu, but when u start fighting for rights, its the source of thier problem, how many times have u seen we straight pple fighting for our rights, we do it in our various rooms and not on the streets.

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by dejiariyo: 7:54pm On Jun 05, 2009

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by JeSoul(f): 7:54pm On Jun 05, 2009

C2H5OH:

to avoid digression then we should get back on topic.
what we are aspiring to prove here is that homosexuality is genetic.
again, the pro gay orthodoxy that people are born gay is equivalent to saying a gene is responsible for sexual orientation.
all i need is proof.

if you can differentiate between a straight baby and a gay baby at birth i wil forfeit all other points.

A false aspiration becos even the gayest of scientists still cannot prove it scientifically.

The original purpose of the thread was to look at it from a spiritual perspective of the sinful nature - hence the lead charge for christians.

Re: Could It Really Be That A Person Can Be Born Gay? by bawomolo(m): 7:55pm On Jun 05, 2009

JeSoul:

Are you going to such ridiculous lengths to try to win the argument?

Who on this thread is looney enough to even attempt to argue that heterosexuality is not the natural order? and homosexuality the deviation?

yes i'm looney enough to argue that. how is heterosexuality genetic but homosexuality not?

keep in mind i believe both are natural.

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