Purgatory is gotten from the latin word purgare which means to purge or to cleanse.
It is the purification kept for souls who die in God's grace and friendship of God but still have some imperfection in them. In order that such souls may acquire the unblemished perfection required to enter heaven.

To further understand purgatory to the fullest, we have to note and agree with 3basic facts.
1. nothing defiled shall enter heaven
2. All sins are not equal
3. Finally we need to comprehend why people oppose the idea that purgatory exists.

In my next posts i will buttress on those 3 points individually.
And chill, I'll make references to the bible too, just so you don't conclude i'm making up things or delusional.

See you in my next post!

On my first point:
Nothing defiled shall enter heaven

This is a known fact, and is well stated in revelations 21:25 which says "nothing defiled shall enter heaven" Defilement here is just as the word is spelt. Nothing with any atom of blemish, no matter how small can see/enter heaven. I am sure we are clear and have no doubts about this part??

Well, ok moving on to my next point!

All sins are not equal

This part is probably where the antagonists/fundamentalists/ protestants think that they have nailed you. Oh well they say sin is sin, no matter how small or big.
Oh what ignorance!!

They always quote James 2:10-11 where saint James says whosoever shall keep the whole law,but offend in one point has become guilty of all. For he that said thou shall not commit adultery also said thou shall not kill. Now if you do not commit adultery, but shall kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law

Well, they're literally interpreting this verse to mean that all sins are equal. Let us now examine what he really meant when he said "Whosoever shall keep the whole law,but offend one point has become guilty of all".

Let us not interpret this passage out of context. He only meant to warn against selective obedience of the commandments. If all inequities where equal then God should punish all sinners equally, this will make God a liar, because Jesus said in Romans 2:6 and 2corinthians 5:10 that God will pay every man according to his deeds.

You may wonder what equality of sin has to do with purgatory. So many things. In fact, those who oppose purgatory know that if they admit that all sins are not equal then they must accept that all punishments are also not equal.

They will be faced with the fact that different degrees of sins imply different degrees of punishment. and they will be left with the inevitable consequence as to believe in the reality of purgatory.

So the deal is, if we can find a common ground that all sins are not equal you'll have to agree wit me that all punishments can also not be equal.
Remember all references are from the bible.

1st example
Matthew 5:22 "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the Council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. "
Here, Jesus clearly states 2 offences and outlines different offences. council and hellfire.

2nd example
Matthew 12:31-32 "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. "
Here, we see sins against the holy spirit are actually different from other types of sin.

3rd example
Luke 12:47-48 "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Same unequal offences attract unequal punishments.

4th example
John: 19. 11. "Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin."
Take note of Greater sin.

So, I guess we can all agree that all sins are NOT EQUAL and certainly cannot then attract the same PUNISHMENT. This is not to say that we should live a sinful life and hope to go to purgatory. Besides, its not like there is a whole party or jolly ride in purgatory. We are made to understand it is still not a very pleasant place.

Even though our sins are forgiven,you need to cleanse the stains by some satisfactory works of penance - A voluntary self-imposed punishment for a sinful act or wrongdoing. It may be intended to serve as reparation for the act.

So, it's like a temporal state souls go to for proper cleansing of the stains acquired from venial sins - A sin that is not a mortal sin; a sin that is not grave, or was not deliberate or was committed without a full understanding of the consequences.

And for satisfactorily paying the debts of already forgiven mortal sin - A mortal sin is a grave matter, such as murder or blasphemy, and is committed with the full knowledge and deliberate consent of the sinner. The committing of such a heinous sin causes a complete loss of grace and leads to eternal damnation unless absolved while the soul was on earth.

A careful read of corinthians 3:13-15 "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

In verse 13:saint paul clearly states that men must be judged after death.
Verse 14: those without sin will be rewarded with heaven.
Verse 15:some who are found unworthy will still be saved,but through Fire.
Notice that in verse 15 it is clear that saint Paul talks about a place where souls can be saved after death, but that surely cannot be hell. Or can it?
He also mentions that salvation will occur in that place through Fire .

Again in Matthew 12:32 Jesuss clearly says "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.".
What other world was Jesus talking about?? Hell?? Really?? You still think its hell??

Purgatory is very real and we are urged to always say a prayer for the poor souls in purgatory, we just may be in that position some time also. Cheers! Thanks if You read it all. I acknowledge it is quite lengthy. I didn't have time to write a shorter one.

It is important to state that souls in purgatory suffer according to the degree of stain and severity of venial sin not satisfactorily paid for.

Ok now i will entertain your questions.. As i know say many of una get una various theories. Raise them and I'll try to answer briefly.
This thread is strictly for reference and enlightenment. I do not advice or encourage bashing of religion/believes.


Purgatory

Mt 5:48 - be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect
Heb 12:14 - strive for that holiness without which cannot see God
Jam 3:2 - we all fall short in many respects
Rev 21:27 - nothing unclean shall enter heaven
Jam 1:14-15 - when sin reaches maturity gives birth to death
2Sam 12:13-14 - David, though forgiven, still punished for his sin
Mt 5:26 - you will not be released until paid last penny

Mt 12:32 - sin against Holy Spirit unforgiven in this age or next—where is the next age that sins can be forgiven? In Heaven there is no sin, in Hell there is no forgiveness.

Mt 12:36 - account for every idle word on judgment day
2Macc 12:44-46 - atoned for dead to free them from sin
1Cor 3:15 - suffer loss, but saved as through fire
1Pet 3:18-20; 4:6 - Jesus preached to disobedient spirits in prison
1Pet 4:6 The Gospel is read to the dead
2Tim 1:16-18 - Paul prays for dead friend Onesiphorus
1Cor 15:29-30 - Paul mentions people baptizing for the dead

Use as reference! As some people always want to ask where and where can we find this and that.

If purgatory exists, who goes there?

When do they go there?

If you say it is a place where people with "lesser" sins are purified for Heaven, what scale is used in measuring the gravity of sins?

If some persons are given a chance to purify themselves after living a life of sin on earth while others do not get the chance to do so, is there equity in it?

Explain purgatory in relation to Ezek. 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die..."

joey150:
so its like a temporal state holy souls stay for a while for proper cleansing

If a soul is holy, does it need to be cleansed again?

Also, if you say the holy soul will be cleansed again by some other means, are you trying to say that the blood of Jesus Christ is not sufficient for cleansing a soul from sin?

DoctorAlien:


If a soul is holy, does it need to be cleansed again?

Also, if you say the holy soul will be cleansed again by some other means, are you trying to say that the blood of Jesus Christ is not sufficient for cleansing a soul from sin?

well if you read again you would notice where i mentioned a soul has to be perfectly sinless to enter heaven.
if a soul is, it dosent need cleansing so no need for purgatory.

joey150:
well if you read again you would notice where i mentioned a soul has to be perfectly sinless to enter heaven.
if a soul is, it dosent need cleansing so no need for purgatory.

Is the blood of Jesus not enough to make a soul fit for Heaven?

Jesus Christ assured the robber on the cross that he will be in Heaven: was his soul perfectly sinless?

Tell me, what makes a soul perfectly sinless?

DoctorAlien:


Is the blood of Jesus not enough to make a soul fit for Heaven?

Jesus Christ assured the robber on the cross that he will be in Heaven: was his soul perfectly sinless?

Tell me, what makes a soul perfectly sinless?

Jesus assured him..right i agree.. remember i said purgatory is temporal. its not a permanent place, so its quite possible he still passed through that phase.

you might say Jesus said tonight, but then you cannot restrict God to time,space or quantity. and also recall that Jesus spent about 40more days on earth before ascending into heaven.

joey150:
Besides, its not like there is a whole party or jolly ride in purgatory. We are made to understand it is still not a very pleasant place.

so its like a temporal state holy souls stay for a while for proper cleansing

If it is an unpleasant place, what is a holy soul doing there?

Who does this proper cleansing and with what?

joey150:
Jesus assured him..right i agree.. remember i said purgatory is temporal. its not a permanent place, so its quite possible he still passed through that phase.

So people go to purgatory at death, according to you?

DoctorAlien:
If purgatory exists, who goes there?

When do they go there?

If you say it is a place where people with "lesser" sins are purified for Heaven, what scale is used in measuring the gravity of sins?

If some persons are given a chance to purify themselves after living a life of sin on earth while others do not get the chance to do so, is there equity in it?

Explain purgatory in relation to Ezek. 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die..."

your first 2 questions i believe where answerd in my first post. sins are measured in venial/mortal sins. i guess you didnt read the post fully, please take your time to. persons who die in Gods grace but still are not entirely sinless not just any person, take note! i may get 48 out of 100 in an exam and still be considered to pass..you get 20 in that same exam..its a straight F.. relate with it on that example.

the soul that sinneth shall die... going by that statement we all should be dead..or shouldn't we?

DoctorAlien:


If it is an unpleasant place, what is a holy soul doing there?

Who does this proper cleansing and with what?

unpleasant in the sense that.. its still purification by fire.

as mentioned in 1 Corinthians: 3. 13. Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

even Jesus hinted at it in Matthew: 12. 31. Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the next .
take note of "nor in the next"

joey150:
Even though our sins are forgiven,you need to cleanse the stains by some satisfactory works of penance(A voluntary self-imposed punishment for a sinful act or wrongdoing. It may be intended to serve as reparation for the act.)

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just ... to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness" 1 Jn. 1:9

How is it that you say we still have a part to play in cleansing ourselves from sin?

"But He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities..." Isa. 53:5.

If Christ has been chastised and wounded for our sins, do we need to wound ourselves again for sin?

joey150:
persons who die in Gods grace but still are not entirely sinless

So, does GOD permit dying in sin?

How can you be in GOD's grace and still die in sin?

joey150:
the soul that sinneth shall die... going by that statement we all should be dead..or shouldn't we?

So, how does it support you claim that a soul that continues in sin will somehow find life, even when GOD says he shall die?

joey150:
unpleasant in the sense that.. its still purification by fire.

as mentioned in 1 Corinthians: 3. 13. Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

It is very funny how you isolate verses from their contexts and misconstrue them. Paul, in 1 Cor. 3 was talking about labour in the gospel mission. Just read from verse 6, and you will see that Paul was not talking about the so-called purgatory. He was talking about building up of the church. Every teaching built on false ideas must collapse, while the people who taught such will have a chance to repent.

It says a man's work will be tried, not the man. His work, not him.

DoctorAlien:


"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just ... to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness" 1 Jn. 1:9

How is it that you say we still have a part to play in cleansing ourselves from sin?

"But He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities..." Isa. 53:5.

If Christ has been chastised and wounded for our sins, do we need to wound ourselves again for sin?

not to say that christ suffering and death was insufficient or incomplete, but we still have our role to play. to think that Jesus has taken care of our future sins is plain ridiculous. even saint Paul even made a remark in phillippians 2:12 "work out your salvation in fear and trembling" . salvation is complete. but take for instance a football tournament..everything is set the stadias are Ready to host. but participants must still have to qualify,buy tickets, some will not even make it to the tournament. this dosent change the fact that the stadium is Ready to host any team that makes it through.

DoctorAlien:


It says a man's work will be tried, not the man. His work, not him.

IT says HE HIMSELF shall be saved by FIRE...

joey150:
not to say that christ suffering and death was insufficient or incomplete, but we still have our role to play. to think that Jesus has taken care of our future sins is plain ridiculous. even saint Paul even made a remark in phillippians 2:12 "work out your salvation in fear and trembling" . salvation is complete. but take for instance a football tournament..everything is set the stadias are Ready to host. but participants must still have to qualify,buy tickets, some will not even make it to the tournament. this dosent change the fact that the stadium is Ready to host any team that makes it through.

What part are we to play considering that GOD is able to cleanse us from all unrighteousness?

I never said Jesus has taken care of our future sins, though.

DoctorAlien:


So, how does it support you claim that a soul that continues in sin will somehow find life, even when GOD says he shall die?

where did i state that a soul that CONTINUES in sin will SOMEHOW i mentioned one how and only one way how that how can actually be how(dieing in the grace of God but still not completely stainless).

besides alot Changed when Jesus came to earth.

joey150:
IT says HE HIMSELF shall be saved by FIRE...

So, is there another means of getting salvation apart from repenting wholeheartedly from your sin and trusting in Jesus to help you, willingly obeying His word?

joey150:
where did i state that a soul that CONTINUES in sin will SOMEHOW i mentioned one how and only one way how that how can actually be how(dieing in the grace of God but still not completely stainless).

besides alot Changed when Jesus came to earth.

But GOD said that the soul that sinnet shall die. He did not say that the soul that sinneth shall be passed through fire and then made to live. How does that support your purgatory claim?

What and what changed when Jesus came to earth?

DoctorAlien:


What part are we to play considering that GOD is able to cleanse us from all unrighteousness?

I never said Jesus has taken care of our future sins, though.

oh well i think i answered this earlier. anyway.. saint paul says in Romans: 8. 1. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. so its not just being on christ so its also to be sure that you do not also work according to the flesh. as also in 1 John: 5. 16. If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it". it clearly shows that a soul may have a grave sin(mortal sin) or a non grave sin(venial sin).

DoctorAlien:


But GOD said that the soul that sinnet shall die. He did not say that the soul that sinneth shall be passed through fire and then made to live. How does that support your purgatory claim?

What and what changed when Jesus came to earth?

going by your same analogy, that thief on the cross with Jesus should have never made heaven too.

so Jesus was just taking him on a jolly ride then

funny how you people have to expect God to have to say everything. same reason Jesus came and also thought his disciples many teachings which all was not clearly stated in the bible. refer back to 1corinthians 3:13-15. i guess. saint paul also made that part up?

joey150:
oh well i think i answered this earlier. anyway.. saint paul says in Romans: 8. 1. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. so its not just being on christ so its also to be sure that you do not also work according to the flesh. as also in 1 John: 5. 16. If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. it clearly shows that a soul may have a grave sin(mortal sin) or a non grave sin(venial sin).

How does 1 John 5:16 support the purgatory claim?

joey150:
going by your same analogy, that thief on the cross with Jesus should have never made heaven too.

so Jesus was just taking him on a jolly ride then

Of course, the thief will make Heaven.

Did Jesus tell the thief he'll be passed through purgatory and then brought to Heaven?

DoctorAlien:


How does 1 John 5:16 support the purgatory claim?

it dosent. am only trying to show you their are differnt kinds of sin. so when you say the soul that sinneth shall die.. remember all sins are not equal and all cannot attract death.

DoctorAlien:


Of course, the thief will make Heaven.

Did Jesus tell the thief he'll be passed through purgatory and then brought to Heaven?

haha. did he really have to say so? what makes you so sure that the thief didnt? any concrete proof? because clearly nothing with sin shall make heaven as i stated clearly.. or did Jesus then lobby?

joey150:
it dosent. am only trying to show you their are differnt kinds of sin. so when you say the soul that sinneth shall die.. remember all sins are not equal and all cannot attract death.

Did GOD Specify the sins one will die for in Ezek. 18:20?