Dragonking:
Thats what I explained in my post.. Jesus Christ has already confirmed it that when you preach the gospel you will be persecuted or killed.. He didn't tell us that God the father will deliver such person.. .If God wishes to save you, so be it.. If he sees that your time is up and you should come home and rest, so be it but there was never a guarantee that all who are persecuted because they preached the gospel will be protected or saved by God. Remember also, that Jesus even advises that such person flee to the next town when he senses trouble or about to be prosecuted for preaching. .If you fail to flee, you can't blame God.. Simple!

I hope this answer the question.

but this same guy was behind all these statements:

psalm 121: 7

The LORD will keep you from all harm-- he will watch over your life;


Psalm 91:10

No evil will befall you, Nor will any plague come near your tent.


Proverbs 12:21

No harm befalls the righteous, But the wicked are filled with trouble.


2Thessalonians 3:3

But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.


2Timothy 4:18

The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed and bring me safely into his heavenly kingdom. To him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.


1John 5:18

We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

---

Wha . . . How the HELL is this not a guarantee?

WTF . . . you guys are so full of crap. your holy book has almost 10 different verses explicitly claiming that God will always protect those who believe in him. several more claiming that he never breaks his promises, even several more claiming that he will do WHATEVER his followers ask of him.

but hey, let's just put a little caveat that DIRECTLY contradicts the claims of NO CONDITIONS, so that the people pushing our propaganda get something to lean on when they get backed into a tight logical corner.


"God doesn't guarantee . . . "

Go self-service yourselves off.

Teempakguy:
but this same guy was behind all these statements:

psalm 121: 7

The LORD will keep you from all harm-- he will watch over your life;


Psalm 91:10

No evil will befall you, Nor will any plague come near your tent.


Proverbs 12:21

No harm befalls the righteous, But the wicked are filled with trouble.


2Thessalonians 3:3

But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.


2Timothy 4:18

The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed and bring me safely into his heavenly kingdom. To him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.


1John 5:18

We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

---

Wha . . . How the HELL is this not a guarantee?

WTF . . . you guys are so full of crap. your holy book has almost 10 different verses explicitly claiming that God will always protect those who believe in him. several more claiming that he never breaks his promises, even several more claiming that he will do WHATEVER his followers ask of him.

but hey, let's just put a little caveat that DIRECTLY contradicts the claims of NO CONDITIONS, so that the people pushing our propaganda get something to lean on when they get backed into a tight logical corner.


"God doesn't guarantee . . . "

Go self-service yourselves off.

Brother u they do research gan-an oooo...

tayooluwole:


Because he has d power and of course, we are being persecuted cos we are preaching his will and commandments. He even said he is our refuge when facing with difficulties ( insecurity inclusive ). U said he never guarantee us protection, so we should not put our trust in him for security. And when praying we should not bother asking for protection on our journey, in d work place and even as we go about preaching his gosple

yes he has the power to save but remember that he chooses who He saves...Preaching the gospel is not for the faint hearted rather it is for people who have determined that they are willing to bare the consequences even if it means death.. The disciples were persecuted and killed, but they didn't relent rather they continued to preach the word of God and face the consequences. ..Stephen was caught and killed, Paul was caught several times but God saved him severally until God decided that Paul's work was done.. .Thats how He operates that's why there isn't any guarantee....The Bible has stated it clearly so if you chose to continue, so be it.. 2Tim3:12. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution

Teempakguy:
but this same guy was behind all these statements:

psalm 121: 7

The LORD will keep you from all harm-- he will watch over your life;


Psalm 91:10

No evil will befall you, Nor will any plague come near your tent.


Proverbs 12:21

No harm befalls the righteous, But the wicked are filled with trouble.


2Thessalonians 3:3

But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.


2Timothy 4:18

The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed and bring me safely into his heavenly kingdom. To him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.


1John 5:18

We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

---

Wha . . . How the HELL is this not a guarantee?

WTF . . . you guys are so full of crap. your holy book has almost 10 different verses explicitly claiming that God will always protect those who believe in him. several more claiming that he never breaks his promises, even several more claiming that he will do WHATEVER his followers ask of him.

but hey, let's just put a little caveat that DIRECTLY contradicts the claims of NO CONDITIONS, so that the people pushing our propaganda get something to lean on when they get backed into a tight logical corner.


"God doesn't guarantee . . . "

Go self-service yourselves off.

There is no guarantee that you will be saved from death when being persecuted for preaching the gospel. .If there was a sure guarantee why did Jesus Christ advise that we flee to the next town when being persecuted if there is a guarantee?

Matt 10: 21-23.

21. Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death, 22 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes

tayooluwole:


Brother u they do research gan-an oooo...

Tell him to show you a Bible passage that states clearly that one will be saved from death when preaching the gospel. I have shown you passages that clearly depicts that there is no guarantee of being saved when preaching the gospel. .

Dragonking:
yes he has the power to save but remember that he chooses who He saves...Preaching the gospel is not for the faint hearted rather it is for people who have determined that they are willing to bare the consequences even if it means death.. The disciples were persecuted and killed, but they didn't relent rather they continued to preach the word of God and face the consequences. ..Stephen was caught and killed, Paul was caught several times but God saved him severally until God decided that Paul's work was done.. .Thats how He operates that's why there isn't any guarantee....The Bible has stated it clearly so if you chose to continue, so be it.. 2Tim3:12. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution

U did not answer an aspect of my question yet... I said, while praying to God, we should not bother ourselves asking for protection ? Since he never guarantee us protection and since he discriminate by choosing who ever he will protect( according to d first part of ur comment )...

Teempakguy:
but this same guy was behind all these statements:

psalm 121: 7

The LORD will keep you from all harm-- he will watch over your life;


Psalm 91:10

No evil will befall you, Nor will any plague come near your tent.


Proverbs 12:21

No harm befalls the righteous, But the wicked are filled with trouble.


2Thessalonians 3:3

But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.


2Timothy 4:18

The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed and bring me safely into his heavenly kingdom. To him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.


1John 5:18

We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

---

Wha . . . How the HELL is this not a guarantee?

WTF . . . you guys are so full of crap. your holy book has almost 10 different verses explicitly claiming that God will always protect those who believe in him. several more claiming that he never breaks his promises, even several more claiming that he will do WHATEVER his followers ask of him.

but hey, let's just put a little caveat that DIRECTLY contradicts the claims of NO CONDITIONS, so that the people pushing our propaganda get something to lean on when they get backed into a tight logical corner.


"God doesn't guarantee . . . "

Go self-service yourselves off.

I have replied you.. .Since you love posting quotes, please post the passage that states clearly that one will be saved from death when preaching so we can continue from here, that's what the thread is about isn't it?

Dragonking:
Tell him to show you a Bible passage that states clearly that one will be saved from death when preaching the gospel. I have shown you passages that clearly depicts that there is no guarantee of being saved when preaching the gospel. .

All the passages he showed were not specific to any aspect of life... I think it covers every area of difficulties christians may be battling with ( preaching inclusive )... So, there is no need to be looking for a passage that is specific on preaching predicament...

tayooluwole:


U did not answer an aspect of my question yet... I said, while praying to God, we should not bother ourselves asking for protection ? Since he never guarantee us protection and since he discriminate by choosing who ever he will protect( according to d first part of ur comment )...

First of all, don't get it twisted. .Your thread is based on why God allow someone to be killed while preaching right? I guess you are now satisfied with the answer.. If you want to ask other questions, accept first that you have been cleared on this one (in which you created the thread for) then we can move forward. I don't want the situation were you will cry me and ask me what I have already explained

tayooluwole:


All the passages he showed were not specific to any aspect of life... I think it covers every area of difficulties christians may be battling with ( preaching inclusive )... So, there is no need to be looking for a passage that is specific on preaching predicament...

Thats the point. None of those passages he quoted were specific but I showed you a passage that states clearly that there is no guarantee.. .Infact we were advised to run when being persecuted or about to be killed for preaching the gospel. .Whether we choose to run or not is solely dependent on us.

Matt 10: 21-23.

21. Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death, 22 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes

Dragonking:
First of all, don't get it twisted. .You thread is based on why God allow someone to be killed while preaching right? I guess you are now satisfied with the answer.. If you want to ask other questions, accept first that you have been cleared on this one (in which you created the thread for) then we can move forward. I don't want the situation were you will cry me and ask me what I have already explained

Lol... I never digressed, the thread is a loaded one that may breed many more sister-thread. All in all, we are talking of God's protection in which preaching aspect is a subset... So answer my question now and let's move on...

tayooluwole:


Lol... I never digressed, the thread is a loaded one that may breed many more sister-thread. All in all, we are talking of God's protection in which preaching aspect is a subset... So answer my question now and let's move on...

So do you agree that the preaching aspect has been cleared so that we can move on?

Dragonking:
Thats the point. None of those passages he quoted were specific but I showed you a passage that states clearly that there is no guarantee.. .Infact we were advised to run when being persecuted or about to be killed for preaching the gospel. .Whether we choose to run or not is solely dependent on us.

Matt 10: 21-23.

Y do u need specification when he already showed u several passages that covers all area ( preaching inclusive )

Dragonking:
So do you agree that the preaching aspect has been cleared so that we can move on?

Far from clear, even it was specifically stated that there would be persecution... Y should it be like that ?

tayooluwole:


Y do u need specification when he already showed u several passages that covers all area ( preaching inclusive )

This thread was specific that's why.. .So let him come out with one passage that aligns to the point of argument based on why the thread was created in the first place. At least I have sticked to the point of argument, let him do the same.

Dragonking:
This thread was specific that's why.. .So let him come out with one passage that aligns to the point of argument based on why the thread was created in the first place. At least I have sticked to the point of argument, let him do the same.

U have been saying d same thing over and over. Anyway, let's leave d matter for now, bed is calling... I wanna sleep...cheers

Dragonking:
There is no guarantee that you will be saved from death when being persecuted for preaching the gospel. .If there was a sure guarantee why did Jesus Christ advise that we flee to the next town when being persecuted if there is a guarantee?

Matt 10: 21-23.

Unless one has a serious mental problem, the guarantee is easy to spot. take, for example:

2Timothy 4:18

The Lord will rescue me from [size=16pt]every[/size] evil deed and bring me safely into his heavenly kingdom. To him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

Unless, of course, the word "EVERY" has suddenly changed meaning in 2000 years of language history.

you said if there was guarantee, why did Jesus say something different?

well,

The very fact that there is a directly contradictory statement in the same text is a clear indication to a rational sane mind that the fidelity of the entire text is compromised.
An holy book that contradicts itself is totally useless, and as such, any God that insists that that is the way he will communicate with all of humanity, is high on divine weed. or, more realistically, is a figment of human imagination.

tayooluwole:


Far from clear, even it was specifically stated that there would be persecution... Y should it be like that ?

If you were attentive to all my posts you would have seen were I quoted this passage :
2Tim3:12:
"Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." This has answered your question.

So, you can open another thread and ask Christians why they choose to suffer persecution for Christ.

Oh goody.


in one chapter:

2Timothy 4:18

The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed and bring me safely into his heavenly kingdom. To him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

meanwhile, in the previous chapter:

2 Timothy 3:12

In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,

I mean, COME ON!!

Dragonking:
If you were attentive to all my posts you would have seen were I quoted this passage :
2Tim3:12:
"Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." This has answered your question.

So, you can open another thread and ask Christians why they choose to suffer persecution for Christ.

Somebody is waiting for ur answer...answer him, he has showed specifically when God told us he will protect us from EVERY evil...

Dragonking:
If you were attentive to all my posts you would have seen were I quoted this passage :
2Tim3:12:
"Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." This has answered your question.

So, you can open another thread and ask Christians why they choose to suffer persecution for Christ.

of course not. you still have to answer why the bible has contradictory statements.

---

I'll protect you guys from the bad guys


The bad guys are going to hurt you guys,

---

---

I'll never let evil things happen to you.

if evil things happen to you, run away from there

---

based on the above statement, the reason why Christians choose to suffer persecution is obvious.

They have a serious case of Stockholm syndrome

Teempakguy:
Unless one has a serious mental problem, the guarantee is easy to spot. take, for example:


Unless, of course, the word "EVERY" has suddenly changed meaning in 2000 years of language history.

you said if there was guarantee, why did Jesus say something different?

well,

The very fact that there is a directly contradictory statement in the same text is a clear indication to a rational sane mind that the fidelity of the entire text is compromised.
An holy book that contradicts itself is totally useless, and as such, any God that insists that that is the way he will communicate with all of humanity, is high on divine weed. or, more realistically, is a figment of human imagination.

When the disciples were killed and taken to heaven, doesn't that scenario fits into the description you just posted? Peter was crucified upside down and killed, his spirit was was saved from further evil and brought safely to God's heavenly kingdom, do you agree? This is the meaning. ..Why will God save you from being persecuted or killed for preaching the gospel and still take you immediately to his heavenly kingdom? You just copy and paste without seeking to understand the scripture that's why you end up confused. .
Like I stated earlier, Jesus specifically told us to flee to the next town when being persecuted for preaching the gospel. ..So why did he say so if there was a guarantee?

tayooluwole:


Somebody is waiting for ur answer...answer him, he has showed specifically when God told us he will protect us from EVERY evil...

Ok, when you wake up, check my response that that somebody.

Teempakguy:
of course not. you still have to answer why the bible has contradictory statements.

---

I'll protect you guys from the bad guys


The bad guys are going to hurt you guys,

---

---

I'll never let evil things happen to you.

if evil things happen to you, run away from there

---

based on the above statement, the reason why Christians choose to suffer persecution is obvious.

They have a serious case of Stockholm syndrome

Well, that's not based on this thread.. You can open another thread and ask Christians why they choose to suffer persecution for Christ.

Dragonking:
When the disciples were killed and taken to heaven, doesn't that scenario fits into the description you just posted? Peter was crucified upside down and killed, his spirit was was saved from further evil and brought safely to God's heavenly kingdom, do you agree? This is the meaning. ..Why will God save you from being persecuted or killed for preaching the gospel and still take you immediately to his heavenly kingdom? You just copy and paste without seeking to understand the scripture that's why you end up confused. .
Like I stated earlier, Jesus specifically told us to flee to the next town when being persecuted for preaching the gospel. ..So why did he say so if there was a guarantee?

No . . . I most certainly do not agree.

Death by Crucifixion is definitely NOT safe at all. it is a slow . . . agonizing death. one that is extremely unnecessary, and even more so, since the person you're supposedly dying for previously promised to safeguard you from all harm. It doesn't matter that peter eventually got to so called kingdom. there was a pact to be fulfilled here on earth. "I WILL KEEP YOU SAFE." which was obviously not kept, how in the hell do you expect a sane person to trust that such a God won't begin stories that touch when you get to the other side?

e.g heaven is currently fully occupied, but don't worry, we are still building mansions, pls chill in hell fire, while we complete yours. oh don't worry! after all, I promised to SAFELY bring you to my kingdom. using a few centuries in hell doesn't matter . . . after all, in the end, you will arrive at the kingdom unscathed.


And of course I understand the passage. it is you that doesn't. Why won't God save you from being persecuted or killed? dude promised several different places that he would do so, dude promised to listen to prayers and answer them, and yet he does nothing to back up his promises and claims. he then comes somewhere else to say . . . if you're being persecuted, you should run away, in other words, i won't be able to protect you, despite the fact that I already promised several times over.


God must be an APC member.

Teempakguy:
No . . . I most certainly do not agree.

Death by Crucifixion is definitely NOT safe at all. it is a slow . . . agonizing death. one that is extremely unnecessary, and even more so, since the person you're supposedly dying for previously promised to safeguard you from all harm. It doesn't matter that peter eventually got to so called kingdom. there was a pact to be fulfilled here on earth. "I WILL KEEP YOU SAFE." which was obviously not kept, how in the hell do you expect a sane person to trust that such a God won't begin stories that touch when you get to the other side?

e.g heaven is currently fully occupied, but don't worry, we are still building mansions, pls chill in hell fire, while we complete yours. oh don't worry! after all, I promised to SAFELY bring you to my kingdom. using a few centuries in hell doesn't matter . . . after all, in the end, you will arrive at the kingdom unscathed.


And of course I understand the passage. it is you that doesn't. Why won't God save you from being persecuted or killed? dude promised several different places that he would do so, dude promised to listen to prayers and answer them, and yet he does nothing to back up his promises and claims. he then comes somewhere else to say . . . if you're being persecuted, you should run away, in other words, i won't be able to protect you, despite the fact that I already promised several times over.


God must be an APC member.

The thing is that you focused too much on the "EVERY" part but forgot to understand the "AND TAKE ME TO HIS HEAVENLY KINGDOM" part..Thats were you get confused.
Try and answer this question, why will God save someone preaching the gospel from evil and immediately take him or her to his heavenly kingdom according to what you posted? When you can fully explain the Bible passage to counter mine, then we can continue.

Dragonking:
The thing is that you focused too much on the "EVERY" part but forgot to understand the "AND TAKE ME TO HIS HEAVENLY KINGDOM" part..Thats were you get confused.
Try and answer this question, why will God save someone preaching the gospel from evil and immediately take him or her to his heavenly kingdom according to what you posted? When you can fully explain the Bible passage to counter mine, then we can continue.

nice try.

there is no mention of immediately there.

the context signifies a peaceful death. which is nothing short of what a God that actually cared would do.

even so, there are many cases where the christian is not immediately killed, but rather subjected to all sorts of torture, day in day out. and God refuses to do anything. in many cases, a family is destroyed, parents killed, children displaced, God's refuses to bat the slightest of eyelids. How does that confirm his claim that no evil will befall them?

remember, this is not even a case of dying. this is a case of being trapped on this earth, in torture. I know what you will say, they should flee, but the guy promised to keep them safe nah. can't you see the blatant contradiction here?

Teempakguy:
nice try.

there is no mention of immediately there.

the context signifies a peaceful death. which is nothing short of what a God that actually cared would do.

even so, there are many cases where the christian is not immediately killed, but rather subjected to all sorts of torture, day in day out. and God refuses to do anything. in many cases, a family is destroyed, parents killed, children displaced, God's refuses to bat the slightest of eyelids. How does that confirm his claim that no evil will befall them?

remember, this is not even a case of dying. this is a case of being trapped on this earth, in torture. I know what you will say, they should flee, but the guy promised to keep them safe nah. can't you see the blatant contradiction here?

I am glad that you finally agreed that the passage which you posted signifies a peaceful death and not an assurance of being saved from persecution or death when preaching the gospel. Also, if you want to talk about contradictions, then it is advisable that you open another thread for it as this thread was created asking why God will allow someone to be killed while preaching the gospel, in which I have answered. ..Thank you.

Dragonking:
I am glad that you finally agreed that the passage which you posted signifies a peaceful death and not an assurance of being saved from persecution or death when preaching the gospel. Also, if you want to talk about contradictions, then it is advisable that you open another thread for it as this thread was created asking why God will allow someone to be killed while preaching the gospel, in which I have answered. ..Thank you.

peaceful death in itself IS a result of being saved from persecution. one doesn't die "peacefully" while being beheaded by ISIS militants for preaching the gospel for God's sake.

You have not answered anything. you are simply deluding yourself.

The question still stands. Why will A God promise to save his followers from evil, and then advise his followers to run from evil?

The question become even more complicated when you factor in God's supposedly empathic and loving nature. what loving God would sit and watch as his followers . . . or more colloquially, his children, die extremely horrible deaths, all while crying to him to save them, all in the name of, "They're coming to me anyway. a little pain can't hurt."

even the Atheists . . . the so called "Wicked" That the bible is always cursing here and there, live more peaceful lives than most Christians.

Teempakguy:


peaceful death in itself IS a result of being saved from persecution. one doesn't die "peacefully" while being beheaded by ISIS militants for preaching the gospel for God's sake.

You have not answered anything. you are simply deluding yourself.

The question still stands. Why will A God promise to save his followers from evil, and then advise his followers to run from evil?

The question become even more complicated when you factor in God's supposedly empathic and loving nature. what loving God would sit and watch as his followers . . . or more colloquially, his children, die extremely horrible deaths, all while crying to him to save them, all in the name of, "They're coming to me anyway. a little pain can't hurt."

even the Atheists . . . the so called "Wicked" That the bible is always cursing here and there, live more peaceful lives than most Christians.

It gets even worse for him because the verse he keeps quoting which says that people should run is another failed prophecy made by Jesus. Jesus clearly promised the desciples that he will return back and save them during the life time of some of them.

Matt 10: 21-23.
21. Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death, 22 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes

He clearly told them that they will suffer persecution but they should keep running from one town to another, before they finish going through the towns of Israel he will return. That was 2000 years ago, yet we have people still waiting for this mythological and imaginary return.

What kind of book of contradiction is this? In one word Jesus/God says I will protect you from all evil, in the next it also says that oh you will suffer evil because of me, in another one it says what ever you ask for in my name I will answer it because I am your loving father so long as you believe, in the next it says don't worry I might not be there to answer you each time you call.my name. No wonder the body of Christ is more confused than ever because they are just following a a pack of confusing that is closed to madness really.

Are you dumb or what? Didn't you read the part where I said that even Buddhists see Jesus Christ? Buddhists don't see Buddha. They all see Jesus. Muslims don't see Mohammed, they all see Jesus. Traditional worshippers don't see Sango,,they see Jesus. Hinduists don't see whatever it is that represents their faith, they see Jesus. There is not a single account in the history of the entire world where a single soul saw Mohammed and that is because he's dead and buried but Jesus is alive.

Moreover, they were not all NDEs. Some saw Jesus without having NDEs. Angels have also been seen and its been all over the news. But Muslims as always are too backward to study and progress.

tartar9:

You guys have been seeing him from time immemorial,but yet,from all the thousands of accounts you cant still form a unified description of what he looks like .... stop avoiding the issue here.
I said which among the NDEs accounts is the real one...is it the hindu account,the buddist account,the new age...how can you accept yours and discard the rest as false
Also seeing visions of Muhammad(SAW) is like an entire discipline in Islam.Just say you don't know.

tayooluwole:


U did not answer an aspect of my question yet... I said, while praying to God, we should not bother ourselves asking for protection ? Since he never guarantee us protection and since he discriminate by choosing who ever he will protect( according to d first part of ur comment )...

If you can find the husband of the woman that was killed and discuss with him you will still discover that there were times God delivered the woman from evil in the past.
You will even see that she has given several testimonies of God's protection in her church.
This time around death came and this is the way it came. There's nothing anybody can do about it.