Critical Thinking And Dialogue - Politics - Nairaland
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| Critical Thinking And Dialogue by posakosa(m): 6:47am On Nov 25, 2009 |
Agreed, Nigerians are very brilliant people but why does it feel like "rocket science" for Nigerians to engage in critical thinking and dialougue ?  A friend writes "Engaging in dialogue is very unpopular in most Nigerian communities---- rather than seen as an idea sharing opportunity, finds that there must always be a power struggle----right vs. wrong--- female vs. male power, -- and I find this especially intriguing" Is this cultural ? Critical thinking is the purposeful[dubious – discuss] and reflective judgement about what to believe or what to do in response to observations, experience, verbal or written expressions, or arguments. Critical thinking involves determining the meaning and significance of what is observed or expressed, or, concerning a given inference or argument, determining whether there is adequate justification to accept the conclusion as true. Hence, Fisher & Scriven define critical thinking as "Skilled, active, interpretation and evaluation of observations, communications, information, and argumentation."[1] Parker & Moore define it more narrowly as the careful, deliberate determination of whether one should accept, reject, or suspend judgment about a claim and the degree of confidence with which one accepts or rejects it.[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking I would like to know your thoughts?! |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by posakosa(m): 6:51am On Nov 25, 2009 |
I don't claim to be a philosopher, but when I engage in educative debate or dialogue with someone <in person and NOT on NLD> --- I normally see this as an opportunity to challenge thoughts and reasons--- TO LEARN. It should be an opppotunity for both parties to think deeply about different ideas and scenarios and NOT an opportunity to prove anything but your points and thought process---- dismissing debates as a form of educational tool IMO blocks and hinders learning. Don't people debate with their professors anymore ? I am confused by the lack of innovative skills of reason when speaking or debating with most Nigerian people---- Is it just me? |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by posakosa(m): 7:03am On Nov 25, 2009 |
Is this why many of our people are soo gullied by political figures or bogus religious ideaologies---- I dont want to claim to be right here but I would like to know your thoughts. |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by CyberG: 7:41am On Nov 25, 2009 |
@Posakosa. . .I completely believe in the idea of debate - on any issue for that matter! I could almost quote all your posts back to you as I have, overtime, advanced similar opinions in my comments. Is this cultural? Well, I know the general African culture is to arrogate to the "elders" absolute wisdom and not even question them if they are very obviously wrong. However, I realize what happens in people's personal experiences may not necessarily be the same; as in the case of my personal experience. I do remember very well that I could have a debate with my mum on any issues (from a young age) and I could advance my own points of view, sometimes we agreed, sometimes we did not. The same applies with my dealings with a lot of people but my "family" culture was not to accept any point of view without some reasoning/questioning especially if there was such grounds. I used to ask my mum, for example, why send your kids to the best schools around and spend so much money and time on them if they can't hold an independent opinion of their own? She agreed with this angle of reasoning a long time ago! As per Nigerians, you and I know the problem: not every individual had an opportunity to make choices so they just took whatever came their way! Not every Nigerian has seen the usefulness of healthy and rigorous debate! Most young people (and I am young too) have no standard to compare their immediate environment to because they probably haven't interacted/lived with people elsewhere. So, it is quite easy for them to accept and believe any and every political hack that comes their way! I have christian beliefs and know most things that go around but I won't accept everything I am told, except I am so personally convinced. The bottom line is your observations are well on track and though there are millions of Nigerians that hold similar views as this, a greater percentage fall into the category of those that have no interest in debate, dialogue, critical thinking or any sort of rigorous mental exercise. |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by posakosa(m): 7:46am On Nov 25, 2009 |
I truly enjoyed reading your response. I hope to hear more from others. |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by posakosa(m): 12:22pm On Nov 25, 2009 |
How come no one has commented=====  |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by AjanleKoko: 12:56pm On Nov 25, 2009 |
posakosa, no vex. Why didn't you post that Yaradua was dead, or someone was caught pocketing $12bn, or something? You would get enuf responses! Anyways, @Topic, Culture and mindset plays a role, a serious one. Africans and Asians are similar in that regard, i.e. they do not particularly have a value system based on equality. While the Asians have a strong culture of leadership and responsibility, Africans seem to have been somewhat disconnected from their historical value systems (of which much has been written about), and are ineffectual when it comes to showing strength and leadership. Unfortunately, innovation can't thrive when there is no collective and free sharing of ideas. So it explains why little irelevant distractions are what we focus on, while bigger and more significant challenges remain unsolved. Nigeria is a bit better. . . but we are too focused on negative competition, pulling each other down, rather than blazing trails. I'm not a sociologist, but. . . maybe our collective confidences have been destroyed by the slave trade or something. The Asians (Arabs, and the Far Easters) seem to have an innate stubbornness, even in the face of oppression. Somehow, even when the chips are down, these guys still risk all to battle oppression. Africans just seem to submit, physically and mentally. |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by Beaf: 1:16pm On Nov 25, 2009 |
I want to tackle this question obliquely so as not to offend sensibilities. These are symptoms of "something": [list] [li]Asking "do you know who I am"[/li] [li]Feeling belittled because someone has put forward a calm and reasoned approach that negates a belief we hold[/li] [li]Delivering dirty slaps when we are involved in accidents (or arguments)[/li] [li]Participating in lynch mobs (verbal or physical)[/li] [li]Looking to spiritual solutions where all that is required is mental and physical exertion[/li] [li]Feeling mentally drained[/li] [li]Feeling spiritually drained[/li] [li]Feeling there is too much on our plates and no outlet[/li] [li]Arguing blindly[/li] [/list] The key to imbibing and practicing critical thinking and dialogue lie outside just teaching or talking about it. The average Nigerian has been traumatised by hardship and years of "command" governments that don't hesitate to apply beatings to "erring" citizens. What is required is a national rebirth, something each and every Nigerian can feel a part of and will be proud to participate in. |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by AjanleKoko: 1:39pm On Nov 25, 2009 |
Did you guys ever read Dilibe Onyeama's 'Nigger at Eton'? There is this stoy about Sambo and Mlambo, two cotton-plantation negroes. Not a very nice story. Goes somewhat like this: Sambo and Mlambo are working in the cotton fields in the hot summer sun. Sambo stops and says 'Mlambo, yu evah wondered why the white massuh gets to boss us around, we get to do all the work and he sits under the tree, swilling whiskey?' Mlambo goes 'Well, Sambo, ah think yu jes need to ask the massuh!' So Sambo goes and asks the white overseer the very same question. The man scowls at Sambo, reaches for his whip. . .stops suddenly, and grins. 'It's a matter of superior intelligence, boy. Here is this whip. I want to see how hard you can whup my hand!'. And he hands over the whip to Sambo who can't hide his excitement at getting to whup the massuh. Sambo is thinking to himself, I am so going to whip this guy, that he shuts his eyes, concentrates hard, swings the whip with all his might, and . . . flogs empty air. Massuh has cleverly sidestepped. Looking rather deflated, Sambo hands over the whip to the overseer and shuffles back to his beat. Meanwhile, Mlambo has been watching with keen interest from afar. When Sambo shows up, Mlambo asks 'What jes happened?' Sambo stares at Mlambo, stares back at the overseer . . . and grins. He goes 'It's a matter of superior intelligence, boy. . . I want to see how hard you can whup my hand!' Bottom line. Do we even have respect for each other? |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by posakosa(m): 2:07am On Nov 26, 2009 |
Beaf: Insightful--- |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by posakosa(m): 2:08am On Nov 26, 2009 |
Thanks to Ajanlekoko, Beaf, and Cyber for the insightful comments---- I enjoyed reading. |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by CyberG: 2:14am On Nov 26, 2009 |
Posakosa. . .Nigeria has been led around by the balls for so long that most Nigerians have lost the ability to truly use their brains to think and dialogue. Meanwhile, Mr. Nigeria is always in its pathetic underwear with the inscription on its behind "giant of Africa", parading around like the fucking stupid pussbag that the entire country is. Any other reason why Nigerians are seen as pussies by everyone else in the world except them pussball playing selves?? This is one thread people should be contributing to. . .it is one of Nigeria's most fundamental problems. . .but as the saying goes. . .use it or lose it! Nigeria has lost this precious attribute that kept the guys in Awo Hall of OAU up late at night debating, marshaling arguments and counter-arguments! Kai. . .how many Nigerian students ever went to a real congress like the one we used to have at the Amphitheater? |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by paddylo1(m): 2:21am On Nov 26, 2009 |
The key to imbibing and practicing critical thinking and dialogue lie outside just teaching or talking about it. The average Nigerian has been traumatised by [b]hardship [/b]and years of "command" governments that don't hesitate to apply beatings to "erring" citizens. What is required is a national rebirth, something each and every Nigerian can feel a part of and will be proud to participate in. this is too simplistic, i think when it comes to online forums like this,a lot of people tend to prefer the bombastic,to the thoughtful and effective line of reasoning they love to perpetuate insults,some love one liners, others crave attention so whatever gets it for them is pushed to the front and any type of critical discussion/line of thinking,is pushed to the backburner plus i suspect the people that beaf is talking about,dont have much access to the computer. . . |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by posakosa(m): 2:32am On Nov 26, 2009 |
paddy_lo: I disagree--- I don't think that this has to do with who has access to the computer or not. It has to do with "reason and thought process" I remember when someone on fb posted something interesting on his fb status--- and I responded, thinking that I was going to engage in some useful and educative dialogue--- that fool defriended me. I mean it was "Who would you prefer to work with Doer or Talker" and I simply answered that people have various roles in society and some are talkers others are doers and not everyone can have the same role---- BUT because I didn't agree with his school of thought-- he automatically defriended me. With intellectuals from other countries--- they ask questions and I ask questions and I leave that fb post like I learned something but NOT Nigerians----- its becomes personal and rather than see this as an opportunity to learn--- there is soo much ANGER. Its absolutely MAD. |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by posakosa(m): 2:34am On Nov 26, 2009 |
@ paddy-lo I think that this matter is more than an online forum--- |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by paddylo1(m): 2:53am On Nov 26, 2009 |
@ paddy-lo I think that this matter is more than an online forum--- so let me get this,are u postulating that a majority of nigerians in the real world dont engage in critical thinking or dialogue? i find that hard to believe |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by paddylo1(m): 2:56am On Nov 26, 2009 |
as a matter of fact i disagree with that completely i dont know about u but i am from the east the igbos are republican in nature and therefore have no kings all decisions must be taken with some form of consensus among the chiefs after rigorous debate even at home the wives are also consulted even though the final decision is left to the husband or male |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by paddylo1(m): 2:59am On Nov 26, 2009 |
i suspect that other tribes even those with kabyeisis or emirs do have a council of elders who debate amongst themselves,so what u say is not in our culture i maintain it is a symptom of our fast online and plugged in nature nowadays |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by posakosa(m): 3:01am On Nov 26, 2009 |
paddy_lo: paddy_lo: Im sorry but what deos this have to do with the matter at hand ? |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by paddylo1(m): 3:01am On Nov 26, 2009 |
With intellectuals from other countriespray tell who are these intellectuals? the average american is dumber than the average nigerian so there are very few average joes over here who are intellectuals sorry to disappoint u |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by posakosa(m): 3:03am On Nov 26, 2009 |
paddy_lo: Kindly re-read my post and then comment |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by paddylo1(m): 3:03am On Nov 26, 2009 |
Im sorry but what deos this have to do with the matter at hand ? u say that the average nigerian does not think critically,and i am showing u that since we are a product of our respective cultures it is inherently in our culture to think and discuss things before taking decisions,so your premise is wrong |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by paddylo1(m): 3:07am On Nov 26, 2009 |
With intellectuals from other countries--- they ask questions and I ask questions and I leave that fb post like I learned something but NOT Nigerians----- its becomes personal and rather than see this as an opportunity to learn--- there is soo much ANGER. this is the full quote,so u are saying u meet intellectuals on facebook from other countries but not nigerians and i say most americans are dumb,and i cannot believe u know who is an intellectual from just interacting with the person briefly on facebook maybe there are some biases u bring to the table that u dont know? |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by Nobody: 3:15am On Nov 26, 2009 |
Nice thread!!!! Same goes with politics and other aspects of human civilization. We have republicans and democrats. If the democrats come up with a good idea, the republicans always tries to shoot it down without even checking how good it is. Same in Nigeria, Igbos vs Hausa vs Yoruba vs many others. If an Igbo man says something very important and true, they look at it through tribal/religious spects instead of critically think about what he or she has said. No idea is perfect but some better than others. If a pastor says 1 +1=2 many will jump on the tribal/religious bandwagon before accepting 1 + 1= 2. It beats me how people gets to thinking this way. I might be a male slut and jump from girls to girls but if I say loving someone is very important, many will bag on the fact that I'm a Giovanni Casanova before thinking about what I've said. I think Philosophy should be made a high school course so more people will get the blessings of logical and critical thinking. |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by paddylo1(m): 3:15am On Nov 26, 2009 |
perhaps i should come out and clearly frame my point what i am saying is that while i agree with your point,i only find this behavior as an online thing amongst nigerians and frankly amongst a lot of social networking sites in real life when i debate with my nigerian friends its a little more deeper and meaningful, might be sports,or politics or even the dreaded religion,its deeper and richer when i go to my uncles during christmas,there is usually a large throng of nigerians that meet there(perhaps 10 to 12 families) and even though am usually the youngest,we end up debating mostly about politics in nigeria and everyone speaks up and exchanges thoughtful ideas,sometimes agreeing sometimes disagreeing,but always insightful so again i find this annoying lack of deep thinking mostly an online phenomenon |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by posakosa(m): 3:18am On Nov 26, 2009 |
9jaganja: Well said. Philosophy and debate are very important and essential. I am not sure if they are still enforced in the Nigerian Educational curriculum as they used to. Are there any recent secondary school graduates or university graduates ? do you still engage in debate ? |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by Beaf: 3:22am On Nov 26, 2009 |
paddy_lo: The first and last lines of your comment contradict the rest of your input. Can you expand on the above? The impression I'm getting from your words is that critical thinking is valid (or absent) Online only. Critical thinking gives due consideration to the evidence, the context of judgment, the relevant criteria for making the judgment well, the applicable methods or techniques for forming the judgment, and the applicable theoretical constructs for understanding the problem and the question at hand. Critical thinking employs not only logic but broad intellectual criteria such as clarity, credibility, accuracy, precision, relevance, depth, breadth, significance and fairness. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by pcicero(m): 3:22am On Nov 26, 2009 |
CyberG: So you were there too! In year one, I was in staying in Angola but my day would not be complete without attending the "Awo Hall School of Philosophy". I became emboldened that i took on Vakama (when he came to address us in Angola) during one of those crises we were having with Prof. Omole then. I became a member of the SRC and got the nickname Cicero. I miss those days. |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by paddylo1(m): 3:29am On Nov 26, 2009 |
The first and last lines of your comment contradict the rest of your input. Can you expand on the above? The impression I'm getting from your words is that critical thinking is valid (or absent) Online only. no u dont quite get me, the point i make is that critical thinking is mostly absent online,and to me not thinking critically by nigerians is a strictly online phenomenom as i believe that outside in the real world,the nigerians i meet are natural critical thinkers and i gave some cultural examples to back up my premise now,for the last line,my point is that since i believe that this is a mostly online phenomenom,the poor people u talk about as being battered by hardship,hardly can afford online access to begin with,so they not even part of the sample |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by paddylo1(m): 3:32am On Nov 26, 2009 |
A friend writes "Engaging in dialogue is very unpopular in most Nigerian communities---- rather than seen as an idea sharing opportunity, finds that there must always be a power struggle----right vs. wrong--- female vs. male power, -- and I find this especially intriguing"@posakosa from your very first post there was the above question Im sorry but what deos this have to do with the matter at hand ?and i am actually trying to debunk that premise or question as to if its cultural HENCE as a matter of fact i disagree with that completely i dont know about u but i am from the east the igbos are republican in nature and therefore have no kings all decisions must be taken with some form of consensus among the chiefs after rigorous debate even at home the wives are also consulted even though the final decision is left to the husband or male i suspect that other tribes even those with kabyeisis or emirs do have a council of elders who debate amongst themselves,so what u say is not in our culture i maintain it is a symptom of our fast online and plugged in nature nowadays hope u follow me now,even if u disagree |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by posakosa(m): 3:32am On Nov 26, 2009 |
paddy_lo: This is an absurd generalization. Idea sharing and dialogue can take place anywhere--- both online and in person--- they are not exclusive of each other. |
| Re: Critical Thinking And Dialogue by posakosa(m): 3:33am On Nov 26, 2009 |
paddy_lo: I am trying to following you and im not sure if I am getting it--- will re-read your post. Thanks! |
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