N101:

I'm not sure you can blame religion for this - religion adapts to the culture it is presented in. The fact that it's happening in reverse says more about the people than about the beliefs. Solarin, Fawehinmi, Soyinka, Zik etc were brought up within that same framework, but they blossomed rather than floundered. Who of the current generation of writers and leaders can be compared with them? I don't think they were simply exceptional, but they were passionate about what they believed and have been consistent. How many nowadays would be willing to put their thinking on the line for the greater good of Nigeria?

A year ago I listened to an interview with someone who I later recalled was an atheist saying he wasn't impressed by Richard Dawkins' evangelical atheism, in fact he wasn't impressed by the current glut of atheists! He recounted the days when an atheist and theologian could get together and have a good reasoned and passionate debate even if they didn't agree on some things. How many Nigerian Christians do you think would be capable of that without calling hellfire and curses down on the head of someone who doesn't agree with them?

In Europe today - and indeed other parts of the world - a lot of the existing social welfare system had at their root churches and groups of believers providing a service to the community because the government didn't. How much is that happening in modern day Nigeria compared to how many new churches are appearing every day?

In a way you're correct, people's religious and sometimes erroneous fervour is often the breeding ground for fanatacism, whether that be Boko Haram or the leadership of the so-called church who condemn children to persecution as witches.

I wasn't blaming religion for anything. I was trying to draw a parallel between the evolution of thinking in Europe and in Modern day Africa/Nigeria.
We seem to be moving backwards.

AjanleKoko:

I wasn't blaming religion for anything. I was trying to draw a parallel between the evolution of thinking in Europe and in Modern day Africa/Nigeria.
We seem to be moving backwards.

I wasn't blaming you for blaming religion, maybe I just took your comments in a direction  you weren't expecting?  

SapeleGuy:

When you look at the problems facing us, it doesn't really need critical thinking or debate, it just needs doers who can perform the basics well.

I'm not sure that the problems can be resolved only by doers, there are many of those out there, it definitely needs something more.  Definitely does not need people giving speeches or people simply with good intentions. But should the problems not be considered in a bigger/wider context?

If critical thinking is equated with argumentative debates,one wonders if it is worth the pains;knowing fully well that arguments produce nothing meaningful,since everyone is concerned with getting ideas across rather than listen to his fellows reasoning!

I wasn't blaming religion for anything. I was trying to draw a parallel between the evolution of thinking in Europe and in Modern day Africa/Nigeria.
We seem to be moving backwards.

It would seem from this statement that you are benchmarking Europe as the standard for thought and philosophy.

It would seem from this statement that you are benchmarking Europe as the standard for thought and philosophy.

Well aren't they?

Olong:

If critical thinking is equated with argumentative debates,one wonders if it is worth the pains;knowing fully well that arguments produce nothing meaningful,since everyone is concerned with getting ideas across rather than listen to his fellows reasoning!

Bravo

N101:
 
I'm not sure that the problems can be resolved only by doers, there are many of those out there, it definitely needs something more. [b] Definitely does not need people giving speeches or people simply with good intentions. [/b]But should the problems not be considered in a bigger/wider context?

Absolutely, I agree with your comments in bold but the challenge is taking a theoretical pursuit from academia and grounding it in day to day reality.
Critical thinking has to have a reference to our reality and have practical solutions to the problems we face or else it turns into an exercise in intellectual masturbation.
It's like building a roof for a house with no foundation or walls.

SEFAGO:

Well aren't they?

They never be.

Cultural influences cannot be peeled off from Logic and philosophy, that is why the philosophy and teachings of Confucius are at opposite poles to those of Descartes (the very same way Chinese and Japanese culture / civilisation differ from what obtains in the West).
Western culture and African culture rarely find harmony; you need inner harmony to be logical, philosophical or creative.

Root yourself in your culture and you can't go wrong.

Cultural influences cannot be peeled off from Logic and philosophy, that is why the philosophy and teachings of Confucius are at opposite poles to those of Descartes (the very same way Chinese and Japanese culture / civilisation differ from what obtains in the West).
Western culture and African culture rarely find harmony; you need inner harmony to be logical, philosophical or creative.

I agree that Eastern philosophy (including arab cultures) is at par with western thought, and I shouldnt have overlooked it, but I am intersted in my own culture, what about african philosophy- is there actually anything like that?

I haven't seen any field known as african philosophy, and i doubt there is one- but i wuldnt be surprised if some afrocentrist come her and start spewing some imaginary bullshit

SEFAGO:

I agree that Eastern philosophy (including arab cultures) is at par with western thought, but what about african philosophy- is there actually anything like that?

I believe there is; but for cultural reasons, I think it can only be comprehended by Africans themselves.

SEFAGO:

I agree that Eastern philosophy (including arab cultures) is at par with western thought, and I shouldnt have overlooked it, but I am intersted in my own culture, what about african philosophy- is there actually anything like that?

I haven't seen any field known as african philosophy, and i doubt there is one- but i wuldnt be surprised if some afrocentrist come her and start spewing some imaginary bullshit

Maybe not in a Western school, but they exist, you just have to be wise to see them. They are all tangled with religion (or pseudo-religion).

Since you are Yoruba, what about Ifa?
Try this for a starter http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/history/apter/Cahiers.pdf (note that after 16 years of study, Griaule only managed 3 levels of knowledge before bursting forth to publish)

@topic,

No doubt the average Nigerian lacks the capacity to engage in critical thinking or even intellectual discussions. Even from this forum the statement holds true any day.

Western culture and African culture rarely find harmony; you need inner harmony to be logical, philosophical or creative.

Root yourself in your culture and you can't go wrong.

. . .adding to that, "if you control the language people use, you can control how they think and reason"

ok, example- not the calibre I am looking for though- but i doubt african cultures pondered "philosophical issues"

It would seem from this statement that you are benchmarking Europe as the standard for thought and philosophy.

I am drawing this issue because logic is a purely european/arab construction. We should acknowledge the inventors, while making every effort to supersede them in their efforts, but how can u supersede something u are not aware of. It is difficult to deny that critical thinking was pioneered and developed by western cultures with contributions from the east. It would not be erroneous to say that western thought haas become the benchmark for philosophy- considering the fact that it is the most studied and developed of philosophical theories

Just asking. . .

Is it possible for Africans to root themselves in culture without bias or at the end of the day becoming tribalistic?

stillwater:

Just asking. . .

Is it possible for Africans to root themselves in culture without bias or at the end of the day becoming tribalistic?

YES!

^Don't get the question, but i would give an answer from the little i can interpret

Being rooted in ur culture especially one of your ethnicity, does not preclude you from acknowledging the equal importance and richness of another african culture. In the case of Nigeria for example,  I have been proud of what culture I am from, but when i discuss issues of nigeria, I pride myself at knowing at least a significant bit about the other cultures present. Ethnic pride does not mean tribalism- its just like someone who like manchester united and someone who is proud of arsenal, the former is  not biased to Londoners.  

So yes, it is possible to root yourself in one culture, but still not be tribalistic as long as you dont consider your culture or "people" superior to another

Olong:

If critical thinking is equated with argumentative debates,one wonders if it is worth the pains;knowing fully well that arguments produce nothing meaningful,since everyone is concerned with getting ideas across rather than listen to his fellows reasoning!

Critical thinking and dialogue is NOT about arguing---- nor is it about what you have just stated---- its about idea sharing, conversation, and dialogue---- read this thread and notice what is going on---- <open ya EYES>

Argumentative debates are ok, if done in a civil manner ---- we as intellectuals should NOT expect others to agree with every single statement we make.

N101:

I wasn't blaming you for blaming religion, maybe I just took your comments in a direction you weren't expecting?

Possibly. I think so. I don't want to settle on religion, or cultural influences. My curiousity is, what drives self-expression? I have always wondered.

Negro_Ntns:

It would seem from this statement that you are benchmarking Europe as the standard for thought and philosophy.

As a matter of fact, for the purpose of this discussion, I am. Not because Eastern thought is necessarily inferior to Western thought, but Europe for me is fascinating, when you look at their transition from being largely barbaric and bloodthirsty nomads to becoming the only enduring standard for civilization in history. Apologies to Beaf, but the West did largely colonize the East, after all said and done. I saw a documentary sometime ago ( think it was NatGeo) that indicated the fact that virtually all mordern sport was invented in China, but the Chinese saw sport largely as idle recreation, and didn't apply any competitive edge to it.

SEFAGO:

So yes, it is possible to root yourself in one culture, but still not be tribalistic as long as you dont consider your culture or "people" superior to another

But majority find it hard not to. Take Nairaland as a case in point.

stillwater:

But majority find it hard not to. Take Nairaland as a case in point.

Totally agree with you on that one. Some threads  I've opted out from because they start to get ridiculous/insulting/belittling at the slightest change of the wind.   

SapeleGuy:

Bravo

Absolutely, I agree with your comments in bold but the challenge is taking a theoretical pursuit from academia and grounding it in day to day reality.
Critical thinking has to have a reference to our reality and have practical solutions to the problems we face or else it turns into an exercise in intellectual masturbation.
It's like building a roof for a house with no foundation or walls.

More like building the walls and not putting in windows and assuming the rain will never get in.

The problem is that when thinking moves towards logical and/or practical conclusions, they are not embraced by all.  In fact, people will make every effort for them not to succeed. 

Even if you as an individual had altruistic intentions to help your fellow man, I can bet you that a number of people would deliberately try to sabotage them.  That is the part  we can't control, though we may be able to control to some degree the people we let into our lives.

AjanleKoko:

Possibly. I think so. I don't want to settle on religion, or cultural influences. My curiousity is, what drives self-expression? I have always wondered.

The world we grow up in shapes our expressions, which takes us back to culture, we can't escape it no matter how much we try.  By culture I mean those customs and values we have grown up with, which colour our behaviour and perspectives.  As we get older, we embrace or reject certain values and aspects of culture - or cling to them.

Family also play a bit part.  I think when most people leave home that is when they get to know themselves, rather than knowing themselves through the eyes of those familiar with them.  But then that also leads to self-awareness, which is another story altogether.

First step to critical thinking is inner reflection.

^^^^ and how have u cum to dis conclusion

posakosa:

^^^^ and how have u cum to dis conclusion

Knowing how you think, talk, write and act gives you a frame of reference in trying to understand the dynamics between you and the person/people you're interacting with.

That task, knowing thyself, is the first patch of playground you encounter in the huge field of critical thinking and dialogue.

I don't agree with ur dismissal of the powers of voodoo but well said---- I concur with the above.