AjanleKoko:

Mourinho is a good coach. A great man-manager, but tactically not a great coach. He just knows how to instill strong work ethics and ambition in big teams, which is really good, and also provided he has money to bring in the type of players he likes. I also think he's an excellent opposition scout; he knows how to seek out, identify, and exploit his opponents' weaknesses.

Tactically I think he's nothing special.
His major failing is his attention-seeking nature, which tends to ultimately undo his good intentions.
Put him against a team with deep tradition, plus a generation of geniuses, and he flops.

Una don start again!! All because he lost last night! Remember he still beat yall when it mattered last season

AjanleKoko:

Mourinho is a good coach. A great man-manager, but tactically not a great coach. He just knows how to instill strong work ethics and ambition in big teams, which is really good, and also provided he has money to bring in the type of players he likes. I also think he's an excellent opposition scout; he knows how to seek out, identify, and exploit his opponents' weaknesses.

Tactically I think he's nothing special.
His major failing is his attention-seeking nature, which tends to ultimately undo his good intentions.
Put him against a team with deep tradition, plus a generation of geniuses, and he flops.

na so e easy to motivate millionaires? secondly na yam or na cassava to win CL with 2 different clubs? na beans?

A-40:

Una don start again!! All because he lost last night! Remember he still beat yall when it mattered last season

Most often than not, we give him way too much credit than he deserves. . . . . now that he's lost, let him face the full brunt!

AjanleKoko:

Mourinho is a good coach. A great man-manager, but tactically not a great coach. He just knows how to instill strong work ethics and ambition in big teams, which is really good, and also provided he has money to bring in the type of players he likes. I also think he's an excellent opposition scout; he knows how to seek out, identify, and exploit his opponents' weaknesses.

Tactically I think he's nothing special.
His major failing is his attention-seeking nature, which tends to ultimately undo his good intentions.
Put him against a team with deep tradition, plus a generation of geniuses, and he flops.

Suprise Suprise this thread was re opened after one loss.

Anyways, I'd like you to Expand on those points I Highlighted

If Jose isn't tactically sound or special then who is?

Let me guess this right. some football illiterate are discrediting all of Jose's outstanding achievement in club football based on ONE game

If we have to apply the same logic to Barca's sodomy of United in 09's UCL final then it can also be said that fergie is tactically inept since he was

clueless and got his tactics wrong in that game

any poster that supports this ridiculous pov deserves a lifetime ban from nairaland

na wa oo.
some of my barker friends don start to dey call guardiola ''the chosen one''.
copy copy don kill them.
1st na to still forza inter barca
now they give their coach a similitude of appellation the special chosen one.
olodo rabata's

chic2pimp:

Suprise Suprise this thread was re opened after one loss.

Anyways, I'd like you to Expand on those points I Highlighted

Sure.
Tactically, he seems to play with basically the same plan, defensively, and counter-attacking, and his teams always have shown a more physical approach to the game. I think he has won more of psychological rather than tactical battles, especially as opposition coaches have been purists who underrated him. I believe he works more on the physical and mental strength of his players, something a lot of coaches seem to neglect.

Also, I am not sure I can point to anything outstanding he has done in the 20 years I have been watching competitive football at club level, compared with some other coaches we've seen. After all, Del Bosque won the CL twice, and has now won the World Cup. He should be the reference point for coaching, if there is any such thing, no?

Yes there's this matter of an unbeaten run in league matches. That's really good, but I am sure he's not the only coach who has an unbeaten record, possibly he's the only coach that talks about it. Again Del Bosque. You could say that he presided over possibly the longest unbeaten run by any national side in Europe, in recent history. You see how these records can sound, when couched in Jose-speak

Just my simpleton opinion. But time will tell. I did say that he's a good coach, and does a decent job, but the rest is more of psychology and hype.

AjanleKoko:

Sure.
Tactically, he seems to play with basically the same plan, defensively, and counter-attacking, and his teams always have shown a more physical approach to the game. I think he has won more of psychological rather than tactical battles, especially as opposition coaches have been purists who underrated him. I believe he works more on the physical and mental strength of his players, something a lot of coaches seem to neglect.

Also, I am not sure I can point to anything outstanding he has done in the 20 years I have been watching competitive football at club level, compared with some other coaches we've seen. After all, Del Bosque won the CL twice, and has now won the World Cup. He should be the reference point for coaching, if there is any such thing, no?

Yes there's this matter of an unbeaten run in league matches. That's really good, but I am sure he's not the only coach who has an unbeaten record, possibly he's the only coach that talks about it.

Just my simpleton opinion. But time will tell. I did say that he's a good coach, and does a decent job, but the rest is more of psychology and hype.

na so e easy to win psychological mind games? u have lived in nigeria before, as well as diaspora i imagine. if you knew how hard it was to motivate rich spoiled 'i dont need you' brats you will know hes doing a hell of a good job.point made on del bosque and i fully agree, but pray tell must there be only one reference point? there is enough space in the sky for stars to shine. broaden your horizon. delbosque, mourinho, ferguson, wenger, hitzfelt,capello are all great coaches [apologies to any i left, not intended].hes a talker like kanye west, and yeah like kanye he DELIVERS. i hope i will alter your opinion but if i dont, then nothing spoil bros. we all can still get along despite differing views. one

ladej:

na so e easy to win psychological mind games? u have lived in nigeria before, as well as diaspora i imagine. if you knew how hard it was to motivate rich spoiled 'i dont need you' brats you will know hes doing a hell of a good job.point made on del bosque and i fully agree, but pray tell must there be only one reference point? there is enough space in the sky for stars to shine. broaden your horizon. delbosque, mourinho, ferguson, wenger, hitzfelt,capello are all great coaches [apologies to any i left, not intended].hes a talker like kanye west, and yeah like kanye he DELIVERS. i hope i will alter your opinion but if i dont, then nothing spoil bros. we all can still get along despite differing views. one

I think you didn't get my point. I said, in previous posts, that Mourinho was a good coach. But genius? I'd say he is genius at being a man-manager. Tactically, a lot of those chaps you mentioned are better than he is. He's no genius when it comes to tactics. After all, he learned from some of those chaps, but his man-management ability gave him the edge over them on some occasions. That's really where I give it to him.

Also on the psychological mind-games. Remember, that has been more pronounced during his time at England, more than anywhere else, primarily due to the sensationalist nature of English media. I didn't see that level of adulation in Italy, and don't expect to see that in Spain either.

One last thing, on the talking. Well, I don't really have issues with him on that; it's his style. But remember that Spain and Real Madrid, as well as Barcelona, have the added burden of deep and sacrosanct footballing traditions. Both teams have a clear and stubborn idea of the way they mean to play, and Mourinho's penchant for playing to the gallery may well be his undoing in these markets. But let's see sha. One love to you too bro.

AjanleKoko:

I think you didn't get my point. I said, in previous posts, that Mourinho was a good coach. But genius? I'd say he is genius at being a man-manager. Tactically, a lot of those chaps you mentioned are better than he is. He's no genius when it comes to tactics. After all, he learned from some of those chaps, but his man-management ability gave him the edge over them on some occasions. That's really where I give it to him.

Also on the psychological mind-games. Remember, that has been more pronounced during his time at England, more than anywhere else, primarily due to the sensationalist nature of English media. I didn't see that level of adulation in Italy, and don't expect to see that in Spain either.

bros when u win that many titles in such a short managerial career u cease to be good. hes won league titles in 3 countries, vying for the 4th. he qualifies to be a great manager, no? well no one ever said u had to be an all round genius na? was muhammad ali the best puncher in his time? no. he used mental skills as well to weaken his opponents and then went in for the kill. so he wasnt the best boxer per se but the overall package he was. not being the best tactician isnt such a flaw when u can motivate your players 95% of the time to DIE ON THE PITCH FOR YOU. better than any tactics i have ever seen. u wont see it in italy cos he took over a winning team that had won the last 4 scudetto before he arrived [compared to chelsea who hadnt won the league in 30 yrs plus]. thats the difference.

plus, inter was the team no one could coach. they tried everyone, the jigsaw didnt fit. until he came. ask sneider what mourinho did to him, or how he mentally psyched drogba to stay[when drogs dey fear say schevchenko go collect shirt]

mourinho calmly told him in a nigerian accent, NOTHING DEY HAPPEN. , and nothing did.

ladej:

na so e easy to win psychological mind games? u have lived in nigeria before, as well as diaspora i imagine. if you knew how hard it was to motivate rich spoiled 'i dont need you' brats you will know hes doing a hell of a good job.point made on del bosque and i fully agree, but pray tell must there be only one reference point? there is enough space in the sky for stars to shine. broaden your horizon. delbosque, mourinho, ferguson, wenger, hitzfelt,capello are all great coaches [apologies to any i left, not intended].hes a talker like kanye west, and yeah like kanye he DELIVERS. i hope i will alter your opinion but if i dont, then nothing spoil bros. we all can still get along despite differing views. one

Pls can you explain what wenGErs name is doing in that place?

^^
Bro,
I don't hate Mourinho, you seem to be trying to sell him to me. We know his strengths. I've talked about that, and his weaknesses as well, and what might eventually be his undoing.

dayokanu:

Pls can you explain what wenGErs name is doing in that place?

in terms of titles no, in terms of sports science, his overall contribution to football is invaluable. for me he deserves to be there. hes a pioneer

AjanleKoko:

^^
Bro,
I don't hate Mourinho, you seem to be trying to sell him to me. We know his strengths. I've talked about that, and his weaknesses as well, and what might eventually be his undoing.

no wahala bros

ladej:

in terms of titles no, in terms of sports science, his overall contribution to football is invaluable. for me he deserves to be there. hes a pioneer

What Sport science? What overall contribution and what did he pioneer? Can you break it down into tangible things and not just grammar?

The only thing he can boast of is 5 seasons trophyless and 30yrs without a European trophy

hes great in that

1. throughout his stay in arsenal hes always made a profit

2. the sale of anelka from 500k to 23 mill, as well as other unknown stars to worldwide names is commendable, notably, henry, pires, anelka, viera

3. the beautiful football they play in the UK

sports science in that, prior to when he came in 1996 players like tony adams used to eat fish and chips, and drink beer. all that stopped immediately. his attention to detail, diet, using machines to gauge performance etc etc. it was unprecedented in england when he arrived from J league

AjanleKoko:

Also, I am not sure I can point to anything outstanding he has done in the 20 years I have been watching competitive football at club level, compared with some other coaches we've seen. After all, Del Bosque won the CL twice, and has now won the World Cup. He should be the reference point for coaching, if there is any such thing, no?

Yes there's this matter of an unbeaten run in league matches. That's really good, but I am sure he's not the only coach who has an unbeaten record, possibly he's the only coach that talks about it. Again Del Bosque. You could say that he presided over possibly the longest unbeaten run by any national side in Europe, in recent history. You see how these records can sound, when couched in Jose-speak

outstanding achievement--unbeaten home record as you rightly said, and please he is not the one saying it its the media.if there existed another it woulda been discovered since 2005 till date.added to that since he started his coaching career he has suffered only one home defeat.2)he has coached in three different leagues winning both the league and f.a cups.3)he is the third coach to have won the ucl/treble with two different clubs.and has not gone a season without a trophy for almost a decade.

secondly del bosque didnt precide over the team for the greater part of spains unbeaten run I THINK it was aragones.

hes great in that

1. throughout his stay in arsenal hes always made a profit

1) Is it the job of a coach to make profit or to win trophies?  How do you assess coaches who are not allowed to make financial decisions? Most clubs dont allow coaches to make financial decisions

2. the sale of anelka from 500k to 23 mill, as well as other unknown stars to worldwide names is commendable, notably, henry, pires, anelka, viera

2) Which club does not do this? And since when did this become a yardstick for measuring coaches?

Lyon coach bought Essien, Mamadou Diarra, Florent Malouda etc for cheap and sold them for millions.
Bayern bought Muller, Schweinsteiger for how much? FREE Now tell me what their market value is?
How much did manure buy CR7 before selling him for 94m, How much did they buy Beckham before selling him.
We can also say Tottenhams coach is great because he sold Berbatov for 30m.
Milan bought Kaka for 8 milla and Sold him for 70m

3. the beautiful football they play in the UK

What is beautiful about a football that doesnt win? If every coach neglects the duty of winning then every team can start passing the ball around and NEVER win

sports science in that, prior to when he came in 1996 players like tony adams used to eat fish and chips, and drink beer. all that stopped immediately. his attention to detail, diet, using machines to gauge performance etc etc. it was unprecedented in england when he arrived from J league

And this method has produced which quality player?  Ronaldinho drinks beer , Rooney I heard even smokes, CR7 clubs and parties they dont use machines for training and they are all better than ANYTHING wenGAY has produced in his laboratory?

Has the Sport science produced Quality players? NO, Has the sport science produced trophies? NO So whats the use of the silly science when it hasnt produced any result?.

How has his Sport science helped Arturo Lupoli, Jeremy Aliadiere, Justin hoyte, Owusu Abeyie etc who grew up in wenGERS lab and are now division 2 materials?

ladej:

hes great in that

1. throughout his stay in arsenal hes always made a profit

2. the sale of anelka from 500k to 23 mill, as well as other unknown stars to worldwide names is commendable, notably, henry, pires, anelka, viera

3. the beautiful football they play in the UK

sports science in that, prior to when he came in 1996 players like tony adams used to eat fish and chips, and drink beer. all that stopped immediately. his attention to detail, diet, using machines to gauge performance etc etc. it was unprecedented in england when he arrived from J league

It's depressing to read such a dumb comment first thing in the morning.
This is the height of naiveity.I won't even bother to think about the post,let alone respond.

^^^Learn to be more tolerant

RuuDie:

Most often than not, we give him way too much credit than he deserves. . . . . now that he's lost, let him face the full brunt!

So we can also call Fergie an im.becile for losing 4-zip to relegation threatened Worst Ham can't we?

StarBoard:

It's depressing to read such a dumb comment first thing in the morning.
This is the height of naiveity.I won't even bother to think about the post,let alone respond.

its even more depressing that instead of thanking God for granting you another day, NAIRALAND is the first point of call when u wake up .i laugh in swahili

dayokanu:

1) Is it the job of a coach to make profit or to win trophies?  How do you assess coaches who are not allowed to make financial decisions? Most clubs dont allow coaches to make financial decisions

2) Which club does not do this? And since when did this become a yardstick for measuring coaches?

Lyon coach bought Essien, Mamadou Diarra, Florent Malouda etc for cheap and sold them for millions.
Bayern bought Muller, Schweinsteiger for how much? FREE Now tell me what their market value is?
How much did manure buy CR7 before selling him for 94m, How much did they buy Beckham before selling him.
We can also say Tottenhams coach is great because he sold Berbatov for 30m.
Milan bought Kaka for 8 milla and Sold him for 70m

What is beautiful about a football that doesnt win? If every coach neglects the duty of winning then every team can start passing the ball around and NEVER win

And this method has produced which quality player?  Ronaldinho drinks beer , Rooney I heard even smokes, CR7 clubs and parties they dont use machines for training and they are all better than ANYTHING wenGAY has produced in his laboratory?

Has the Sport science produced Quality players? NO, Has the sport science produced trophies? NO So whats the use of the silly science when it hasnt produced any result?.

How has his Sport science helped Arturo Lupoli, Jeremy Aliadiere, Justin hoyte, Owusu Abeyie etc who grew up in wenGERS lab and are now division 2 materials?

the short answer is, IT IS WELL

ladej:

its even more depressing that instead of thanking God for granting you another day, NAIRALAND is the first point of call when u wake up .i laugh in swahili

It's depressing when someone who should be using his brain to post constructively decides to talk nonsense all the time. . .
If NAIRALAND is my first port of call each day,what's it to you,sour-milk brain?
Explain your miserable post,you dullard. . .talking like a retard won't make you popular around here,you miserable lout.

dayokanu:

What Sport science? What overall contribution and what did he pioneer? Can you break it down into tangible things and not just grammar?

The only thing he can boast of is 5 seasons trophyless and 30yrs without a European trophy

newcastle just sacked their manager - i wonder what wenger has to do before he gets sacked. he is the only manager in the world who has failed for 5 straight seasons and still has a job.

WenGER wont be sacked because he stopped Tony Adams from drinking beer,

He stopped David Seaman from fish and chips,

He paid attention to Thierry Henry's diet,

And used machines to gauge performance of Fabregas

At the end of it all he remains trophyless for half a decade and 30yrs without any European trophy.

Is that not enough

It's depressing when someone who should be using his brain to post constructively decides to talk nonsense all the time. . .
If NAIRALAND is my first port of call each day,what's it to you,sour-milk brain?
Explain your miserable post,you dullard. . .talking like a not-so-smart person won't make you popular around here,you miserable lout.

i guess i struck a nerve. didnt mean to.

AjanleKoko:

Sure.
Tactically, he seems to play with basically the same plan, defensively, and counter-attacking, and his teams always have shown a more physical approach to the game. I think he has won more of psychological rather than tactical battles, especially as opposition coaches have been purists who underrated him. I believe he works more on the physical and mental strength of his players, something a lot of coaches seem to neglect.

Play with the same plan? . . . . . I guess you did not watch the Inter vs Barca semi Finals first leg @ the san siro last season. Pep and his coaching staff were expecting the same Defensive side that showed up in the Group round matches and they got the shock of their lives. On winning the psychology battle, I firmly believe that is a quarter if not half of the battle won. Do not the understimate the effects of gaining a sychological edge over your opponent.

AjanleKoko:

Also, I am not sure I can point to anything outstanding he has done in the 20 years I have been watching competitive football at club level, compared with some other coaches we've seen. After all, Del Bosque won the CL twice, and has now won the World Cup. He should be the reference point for coaching, if there is any such thing, no?

Del Bosque definitely belongs in the top bracket of great coaches, same as Mourinho. However we can't say the same of Pep. On not finding anything outstanding, Is winning the Champions league with two different teams not outstanding enough for you?

AjanleKoko:


Yes there's this matter of an unbeaten run in league matches. That's really good, but I am sure he's not the only coach who has an unbeaten record, possibly he's the only coach that talks about it. Again Del Bosque. You could say that he presided over possibly the longest unbeaten run by any national side in Europe, in recent history. You see how these records can sound, when couched in Jose-speak

Just my simpleton opinion. But time will tell. I did say that he's a good coach, and does a decent job, but the rest is more of psychology and hype.

Oh I seeyour beef now . Jose Loud mouth, no be so?. Del Bosque and Jose are two different characters and as such are expected to react to things differently. Don't let take away from the Fact that Jose is a Great and by the time he retires probably a Legendary Manager.

chic2pimp:

Play with the same plan? . . . . . I guess you did not watch the Inter vs Barca semi Finals first leg @ the san siro last season. Pep and his coaching staff were expecting the same Defensive side that showed up in the Group round matches and they got the shock of their lives. On winning the psychology battle, I firmly believe that is a quarter if not half of the battle won. Do not the understimate the effects of gaining a sychological edge over your opponent. Del Bosque definitely belongs in the top bracket of great coaches, same as Mourinho. However we can't say the same of Pep. On not finding anything outstanding, Is winning the Champions league with two different teams not outstanding enough for you?
Oh I seeyour beef now . Jose Loud mouth, no be so?. Del Bosque and Jose are two different characters and as such are expected to react to things differently. Don't let take away from the Fact that Jose is a Great and by the time he retires probably a Legendary Manager.

aptly written

dayokanu:

WenGER wont be sacked because he stopped Tony Adams from drinking beer,

He stopped David Seaman from fish and chips,

He paid attention to Thierry Henry's diet,

And used machines to gauge performance of Fabregas

At the end of it all he remains trophyless for half a decade and 30yrs without any European trophy.

Is that not enough

if he does win the league this year, do come back to give him props [not that he needs any]. hes one of the few managers who will not be sacked, even if he doesnt win the next 3 prem titles.arsenal are eternally grateful to have him

How many of his mates are celebrating league wins at over 60yrs of age and almost 30yrs of coaching?

If he wants to rejoice over league wins then he should join Martin Oneiil, Felix magath, Laurent Blanc, Thomas Schaaf, Roberto mancini, Paul Le Guen, Kenny Daglish, Javier irureta in the club of ONLY league winners etc and not be categorized as a great Manager like VanGaal, Hitzfeld, Ferguson, Benitez, Mourinho, Ancelotti etc

Arsenal is grateful to him because they lack ambitions, How can any club be grateful for half a decade without a Spoon