dayokanu:

Mr Ladej,

Come and tell us about that useless coach called wenGAY

dayokanu:

So what does that say about Monsieur WenGAY?

11 games vs Chelsea/Man Utd without a win, 13 goals in 13 games conceded to Didier Drogba, 5 seasons without a trophy, 6 seasons without the league and 27years of coaching without a European title.

Yet you claim he is a great coach. Kindly rationalize your earlier assertion

ladej:

my guy no beef na. apples and oranges mate. in terms of overall trophies of course he lags behind. he had the chance to manage Madrid but chose to remain in arsenal cos of his principles, same principles that have cost him numerous titles. however i have a right to my opinion despite the fact im a chelsea fan. hes been an asset to england, and even alex will admit that he is a great manager[and he has done publicly]. why i would disagree with alex ferguson beggars belief. he more than anyone knows what a great manager is, after all we are all arm chair critics here [at least i am]. i maintain my stance. ARSENE WENGER IS A GREAT COACH. there. said it.

dayokanu:

You said he lags behind in trophies, then what is he good at? Lies, Dressing, Wrinkles, child molestation or what?

Arsene wenger refused(In your own words) to go to Madrid because he knows they dont tolerate mediocrity. Its only in Arsenal where mediocrity is celebrated. If he were to coach Madrid he cant last 4 months before he is sacked. Do you think any coach in Madrid can be trophyless for 2 seasons without getting sacked?

You have a right to your opinion but make it logical. Ferguson also said yesterday that Allardyce is a great coach, I am sure he knows better than you.

BTW Jose Mourinho who knows better than all, Has said Wenger is a Failure, A voyuer and a fraud

but be based on the overall picture such as titles, talent spotting, retaining, development, being a credit to the game, playing style, introduction of new technology, using pyschology to get the best from players, tactics and technical skill. its your opinion that arsenal lack ambition but the board are perfectly happy with him and the job is his to lose

ladej:

my guy no beef na. apples and oranges mate. in terms of overall trophies of course he lags behind. he had the chance to manage Madrid but chose to remain in arsenal cos of his principles, same principles that have cost him numerous titles. however i have a right to my opinion despite the fact im a chelsea fan. hes been an asset to england, and even alex will admit that he is a great manager[and he has done publicly]. why i would disagree with alex ferguson beggars belief. he more than anyone knows what a great manager is, after all we are all arm chair critics here [at least i am]. i maintain my stance. ARSENE WENGER IS A GREAT COACH. there. said it.

cou-gar:

arsene wenger is a decent manager, he's not a great coach. to be great is to do something extra-ordinary consistently. wenger has not done that (yet). to be great is to defend a league title - wenger hasn't done that yet. to be great is to win a european cup - wenger hasn't done that yet. i don't disagree he's been great for arsenal but that is because arsenal are small time. in the clique of great european managers, wenger is an apprentice.

dayokanu:

The bolded, whats the motive of all that, If you claim you have all that and still cant get the job done?

If you tell your employer, you are a great team player, Have a PhD, attention to detail bla bla bla and yet you cant get a single project done succesfully whats the use?


All his new technology, psychology, playing style, development. retaining etc whats the end result? 5 seasons of barrenness?

Talent spotting like Owusu Abeyie, Arturo Lupoli, Justin Hoyte, Jeremy Aliadiere, Fabrice Muamba?

How many players have been discovered by wenGAy that have won Young player at the World cup?

ladej:

i bef to differ bros.i agree he failed to win back to back titles but hes also the only manager to go unbeaten in a season since the prem started 17 years ago. the european cup is one i cannot defend here, but because he didnt win it doesnt mean he isnt great.

you conveniently didnt mention henry, vieira, pires, wiltord, fabregas, gallas, all who were green horns when they arrived in england and left marginally better wouldnt u agree? and a certain kanu nwankwo, who arguable had his best years in an arsenal shirt. . im not asking you to agree, im asking you to see a different perspective to this. true say but hes gotten the project done loads of times, just that the last 5 seasons have been shocking to say the least

well hes not going anywhere and he and alex remain the longest serving managers to day in top class football. that counts for something

ladej:

i bef to differ bros.i agree he failed to win back to back titles but hes also the only manager to go unbeaten in a season since the prem started 17 years ago. the european cup is one i cannot defend here, but because he didnt win it doesnt mean he isnt great.

dayokanu:

How can you be a great manager in club football without winning the greatest prize? How can you be declared a champion without winning the biggest prize?

Henry: Was a Green horn? Do you know Henry was a world cup winner and France highest goal scorer in the World cup before joining Arsenal?

Vieira: Do you know Vieira was already captain of Canne before going to AC Milan and finally Arsenal? Green horn indeed

Robert Pires: Joined Arsenal at the age of 27 after winning the World cup and Euro cup. Before joining Arsenal he has played over 220 Professional football games Yet he is a Green horn. So if Fernando Torres a similar 27yr old who has won Euro cup and World cup should join Chelsea now we would say he is a greenhorn.

Wiltord: Joined Arsenal at the age of 26yrs after playing over 250 games of Professional football and winning the Euro cup. Name another 26yrs old Euro cup winner who scored in the final that can be called a green horn. The way people say all sort just to cover up for wengers inadequacies is pathetic.

Gallas: Are you joking here? Gallas arrived at Arsenal as a 29yr old after winning 2 league titles with Chelsea, and more than a decade of professional football.

I am sure you would say Shevchenko and Ballack too were greenhorns when they arrived Chelsea because they arrived at a similar age.

Read about Guy Roux, He coached Auxerre for over 50yrs, We can also say he is a great manager abi?

cou-gar:

alex ferguson won 2 different champions league titles unbeaten - i am yet to see united fans anywhere gloat about that which is even a more difficult task because fergie had to go past good teams like inter milan, barcelona, bayern munich, chelsea, juventus, etc. wenger went unbeaten with less-difficult teams to worry about. besides, there's no special prize for going unbeaten. winning it is the most important thing.

cou-gar:

alex ferguson won 2 different champions league titles unbeaten - i am yet to see united fans anywhere gloat about that which is even a more difficult task because fergie had to go past good teams like inter milan, barcelona, bayern munich, chelsea, juventus, etc. wenger went unbeaten with less-difficult teams to worry about. besides, there's no special prize for going unbeaten. winning it is the most important thing.

ladej:

nope it isnt. league is harder than champions league. time and time again this has been proven. the fact that you play 38 games in a 9 month season is a pointer. the league is more rigorous,more competitive, and the bread and butter of all leagues. of course they are different formats. one is 19 home, 19 away, while the other is a knock out competition. of course the quality is better at champions league, but the games are fewer and spaced further as well.

cou-gar:

so kindly explain why no team has been able to defend their champions league title since 92/93 and these same teams defend their league titles time and time again. the champions league is more difficult! a club can be a local champion like lyon, celtic/rangers, porto, etc in their respective domestic leagues but there's no local champion in europe. if you don't stock up well, you would be found out just like braga exposed arsenal the other night. the champions league is more difficult!

ladej:

to be honest i have no clear answer to this question and i havent heard a convincing one till date.each brilliant team tend to bomb in the following season. the closest it got to back to back wins was when juventus got to 3 finals in a row in the late 90s. sadly only one was picked up. it might be the unpredictability of knock out football, this would be my educated guess, and i might be wildly wrong. even the excellent barca were tactically crushed by mourinho this year, leaving the players scratching their heads in disbelief. sneider opines it can be done. i wont hold my breath. remember when AC milan last did it they actually played fewer games than now[also a brilliant team to boot]

cou-gar:

it's not solely because of elimination, the ambiguous "away goal" rule is also a factor and this is why the champions league is more difficult. you can draw twice against your opponents and get eliminated(1-1) at home, (0-0) away and you are out! so for this reason, the champions league is the biggest football competition in my opinion. the quality is top draw and you have to really be on point to clinch it.

ladej:

biggest yes, hardest no. im willing to accept at best its different though. its definitely more prestigious, but the consistency needed to win the league takes it for me. due to being seeded big guns can avoid each other, and get a kind draw for the second round. from the QFs onwards u can hit full steam as a club. in the league no soft touch o. if u win the league u have deserved to win the league. champions league has had a few lucky winners IMO, namely porto [remember the disallowed goal from scholes]

ladej:

mr dayo kanu. i love healthy debates. what i meant was they became house hold names worldwide performing in the english league. dont surprise me by comparing the french ligue 1 to the trio of english, spanish and italian leagues. id squeeze in german too.all the players you have itemised werent playing first team football and were largely disillusioned before coming to arsenal. ok scrap gallas from the list. i know guy roux, very respected amongst his peers.

my guy in d life we live in if you are lucky/blessed enough to work in your chosen profession and are respected by MOST of your colleagues for what u do, and manage to win a few world class projects etc, i feel u can be considered great. obviously our definitions of great clearly differ. nothing do u though. the fact that the word sack isnt even mentioned around his name despite his long lull of trophyless seasons should give you an indication of how highly regarded he is. the media[as horrible as the english one is], dont even mention his name when it comes to being sacked. in england hes a legend.

cou-gar:

yes, an undeserved winner can win any cup competition but that does not devalue it. if you win the champions league unbeaten, consider it the most difficult task ever because from the group stage onwards, there's no easy team. arsenal's toughest rivals in 2003/4 when they went unbeaten were man utd and chelsea. the other 17 clubs were not up to scratch. in the tie against united(it was 0-0 at ot, 1-1 at highbury), in a champions league format, the gunners would have been eliminated based on the results. lastly, there must be a reason arsene wenger is yet to win the champions league - and that is because it's more difficult than the domestic league.

dayokanu:

ladej,

Till year 2000, The English league wasnt that highly regarded, Even when the CL started EPL was only allowed 3 teams.

When the likes of Henry, Vieira, Pires, Wiltord came to EPL, it was clearly behind the Italian league and just at par with BL and French league.

BTW Are you saying Pires and Wiltord were not playing first team football before joining Arsenal, Kindly check your facts about this.

Before 2000, How many EPL teams made the CL knockout stages? Arsenal couldnt even make CL knockout in those ages, Wasnt it those times that Deportivo, Valencia, Kaiserslautern made mincemeat of Wengers sides?

If not for the hard work for Man Utd, EPL would be producing 3 teams till much later.


Ladej,
Which one do you think its easier playing Barcelona, Bayern Munich and Real Madrid home and way vs Playing Derby County, Sheffield Wednesday, Coventry, West ham, Hull City, Wolves Home and away.

Do you think its easy to go to Nou Camp, Bernabeu, San Siro and Allianz Arena to pick results?

You mean Celtic would say going unbeaten in the Scottish league is difficult when the only big team they had to play was Rangers 4 times

ladej:

were the other 17 teams rubbish or was arsenal exceptional that season?

cou-gar:

a bit of both to be honest!

dayokanu:

That season, Chelsea was under ranieiri and just coming up, Liverpool under Houllier and man Utd just rebuilding

dayokanu:

Pires won the World cup, Won the Euro cup came to Arsenal at the age of 27. Wiltord won the World cup, Won the Euro cup before coming.

By your reasoning we can also say Ballack came to limelight when he moved to Chelsea?

If you agree European teams are more difficult to beat, which should be a higher achievement: Winning CL unbeaten or winning domestic league unbeaten

ladej:

chop knuckle broda.
true that, doesnt diminish that excellent season though. its like diminishing barca's season by saying the other teams rolled over for them. sometimes you have to credit the goal scorer, not lambast the keeper

cou-gar:

but you have to be honest, many see that achievement as a fluke because arsenal's dominance didn't last long. when other great european teams have dominated, they at least defended a league title and were victorious in europe. arsenal did none of that so you cannot blame people thinking the invincibles were crap.

ladej:

whats your position , do you think they were crap? they failed to capitalise on the success though, it has to be said. big time. even us chelsea won back to back

amurx:

Just like dat el classico . Altleast he wil no dat he is nt da best