JeSoul:

See as you just finished me here lol . . . you're right. Permit me to ask, in the simplest and most concise of declarations, what is the Gospel of Jesus Christ to you?

Finish ke? We just dey start. I'll try to be simple and concise, though I can't guarantee that it'll be the simplest and most concise of declarations.

The Gospel fo Christ is at one with the Gospel that John the Baptiser preached and it stated thus:

1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

I'll be using the gospel of Matthew from the third chapter to the 7th for this exercise. And maybe bits of John's Gospel.

It is stated clearly at the very beginning of Jesus' ministry what Jesus was doing, what his doctrine was. It was actually very clear and precise.
Matt chapter 4:

17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

That's it in a nutshell. Now we've got to ask, what is this kingdom of heaven, and why do we have to repent (yi pada, turn around) to access it.

@AIO: But Christ's name was given all authority only after the sacrifice! The sacrifice is what gives His name any significance! [insert Eph 1:19-23 here] [insert Phi 2:7-11 also]

see also John 1:12, those that believe on his name are those that receive him, and they thus receive power to become sons of God.

What is this Kingdom of Heaven?  Is it a place that we are to expect in the future after the end of the world?  Is it a final reward at the end of our lives as is preached in churches around the globe?

I say NOT!  No because we are told in no uncertain terms that it is 'at hand', right there within our grasp, before our noses as it were.  

The Kingdom of God or Reign of God - Basileia tou Theou[1] translates to the "reign of the God"[2] is a foundational concept in the three Abrahamic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
According to Jesus, the Kingdom of God is within (or among) people,[3] is approached through understanding,[4] and entered through acceptance like a child: "I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." Mark 10:15</ref> spiritual rebirth,[5] and doing the will of God.[6] It is a kingdom that will be inherited by the righteous[7] and is not the only kingdom.[8]
The phrase occurs in the Gospel according to the Hebrews and in the New Testament more than 100 times, but not at all in the Hebrew Bible and only once in the deuterocanonical/apocryphal Wisdom of Solomon (10:10)[9] and is defined almost entirely by parable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_God

And all we have to do is repent.  That is turn around.  That is re-orientate ourselves.  What does this mean?  What is our present orientation that we now have to re-orientate in the opposite direction?  I would like to suggest that the two orientations that Christ is talking about are the Fleshly orientation of our senses and the orientation of our spiritual faculties.  

1  There was a man of the Pharisees named __ Nicodemus a ruler of the Jews 2 The same came to Jesus by night and said unto him Rabbi we know that thou art a teacher come from God for no man can do these miracles that thou doest except God be with him 3 Jesus answered and said unto him Verily verily I say unto thee Except a man be born again he cannot __ see the kingdom of God

This is from the Gospel of John Chapter 3.

mavenbox:

@AIO: But Christ's name was given all authority only after the sacrifice! The sacrifice is what gives His name any significance! [insert Eph 1:19-23 here] [insert Phi 2:7-11 also]

see also John 1:12, those that believe on his name are those that receive him, and they thus receive power to become sons of God.

Dis girl, wait now, I never finish.  I dey come small small.  Then you can fire any question you want.  (but chew on this:  The kingdom of heaven is at hand was declared before the crucifixion.)

Lol. Sorry, AIO. Let me learn patience. . .

The following chapters from 5 to 7 then laid out Christ's doctrine explicitly.  It is known now as the sermon on the mount.  
I won't go through all of it.  Just pick certain salient points that I feel like getting into.

First (in my commentary) he addresses the Law.  He demonstrates that the Law falls short of righteousness and thus is not a means to righteousness.   He presents what he calls a fulfillment of the law.  When something has an objective, a raison d'etre, and it falls short of it the fulfilling it means completing the process to the objective.  If I undertake a journey by foot from lagos to cairo, but stop at Bornu, then catching a plane from Bornu to Cairo is a fulfillment of my initial objective for leaving lagos.  

Jesus now points to an objective of the law.  A reality to which the law addresses but is not initially obvious.  This reality is our spiritual state.  

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Chai!!!  That's a bit of a tall order, don't you think?

21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and

How easy it would be to say, "well I've never killed anyone".  If you consider the law superficially then many people will pass this law.  But what if the law is actually meant to address another concern and not just the act of killing.  What if the law is meant to address the sentiment that leads one to become a murderer.  Then how many people can say that they've never felt like strangling some irritating git to death.  
I think it is very noticeable in Jesus' discourses that he is interested not only in the outward actions of people but in their inner world, the impulses that lead to the actions.  That is where God's real concern is.  The fact is that no matter how 'righteous' our actions our we are like white washed sepulchres.  The inner content of our souls are filthy.
And it is quite possible that for a lot of us the only reasons why we are not murderers is because the guy that pissed us off was twice our size and he had a bigger gun and was part of a bigger gang.  

How many virgins are virgins by choice?  Just because you haven't committed adultery does not mean that you haven't sized up a girls yansh and said to yourself, " mehn, if I handle that yansh, chei . . . I go just dey rock am ehn,(?)  . . . .I go dey rock am and rock am and massage am. . . . In fact I go first go buy some whipped cream, and chocolate, and strawberry.  Then I go paint the whole body with cream and chocolate, then dress am with strawberry and banana, enh.  Then small by small, I go dey lick am, I go dey chop di strawberry for hin body, I go dey lick the cream from up come down.  I no go miss one single contour for the matta.  When I don lick all di body finish, I go come dey caress di flower, I go caress am until e start to bloom, when di petals don dey open up ehn, I go wait until di whole tin dey glisten wit juice, then I go pounce enh . . . . a ya ya ya ya!  I go rock am enh!"

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Jesus says that it is the contents that are God's concern as much as the actions.

After the Law Jesus then discusses another major obstacle to the Kingdom of Heaven. And that is our concern with Social status. The fact is that once you put 2 or more people in a context their behaviour will change from if they were alone. Some of their energy will be directed at creating an impression on the other. Most likely trying to create a favourable impression.

This psychological tendency is another obstacle to the kingdom of heaven. I think it is a big and serious one for Nigerians actually. Ostentatious religionism.

Matt 6:

1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face; 18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.

Intent (which no one can see but God) is what is really important here. Jesus says that those whose intention is to gain social status will have had their reward. I would qualify it further and say those who are skilled (or lucky) at getting public recognition for their works have their reward. I say they have to be skilled because pr exercises have been known to backfire. So those who are doing it for status but do it clumsily might not even get that reward as well as losing the heavenly reward. So if that's your purpose make sure you do it right.

Personally I have a strong dislike for Almsgiving that is religious which I often bring up with moslem cos Giving alms is one of their 5 pillars of islam. I don't trust the greater part of human almsgiving. There is something very dark and nefarious about it.
There is something else that gets communicated when people give alms. This is very evident in nigeria. It is a statement of superiority, the Almsgiver is demonstrating his higher status to the person he is giving alms too. And the proud of course reject any alms that may be given to them precisely because they read this other communication in the giving and receiving of alms.

Have you ever noticed certain people that are so nice to you when you when you are down, but once you start to get yourself back together again they stop being nice. I know 2 guys (they are no longer friends) But one used to live in the others house. The richer friend would always dash the poorer one 10/20 pounds to see him through the day. Meanwhile it is not like the poorer friend was a useless guy. He was a talented guy, but the richer friend won't lend him enough money for him to set himself up independently. Instead of giving him 20 pounds every day, sometimes 50 pounds, he could have just help the guy put down a deposit so that the guy could get his own flat, and maybe start his own business. It was precisely at the point that the poorer guy started getting himself together that their friendship started unravelling. In fact the guy had to hide the fact that he was saving some extra money to set himself up.
It kind reminded me of what Benitez the manager of Liverpool said about Jose Mourinho when he was at Chelsea. He said that Mourinho was always nice to him when Chelsea used to beat Liverpool, but as soon as Liverpool started to win some matches against Chelsea Mourinho started to have problems with him.

There is definately something rotten at the heart of giving alms. Ostensibly it seems like a noble act, but what is the motivation. If one is fixated on the ostensible aspects of religion then you'll miss the motivations and the intentions which is where the real work of spiritual growth is.

One last anecdote. I bump into a female friend a while back. We started to catch up. She was now married with a type of guy that she never fancied before, it totally took her by surprise, it swept her off her feet. Before then she just used to run around with different guys on the scene and she had a posse of girlfriends. One friend especially. They were soooo tight. I really thought that nothing could come between them. As we were talking I now asked after her girlfriend. She told me that they had fallen out. "What!" It turned out that after she met the guy, her best friend just became nasty to her. This girl was always there to support her when she got her heart broken by some useless guy, she was ready to sacrifice anything for her friend as long as her friend was having problems with guys. But as soon as her friend found happiness with a guy, she couldn't handle it. She went around dissing the guy and calling them a mismatch etc.
So you see, what human behaviour seems like and what it's motivation actually is can be two different kettles of fish entirely.

Im following your posts, but I must confess, I skipped that explicit block of text [omigash! Too much detail there, God sees my heart, I tell the truth, I had to skip it]. More. . .?

I don dey tire small, but I'll press on.

What exactly is this Kingdom of Heaven?  

5 Jesus answered Verily verily I say unto thee Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot __ enter into the kingdom of God 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee Ye must be born again 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth and thou hearest the sound thereof but canst not tell whence it cometh and whither it goeth ">so is every one that is born of the Spirit

Jesus here again articulates a duality of being.  The Fleshly and The Spirit.  Remember we talked about repentance and I suggested that repentance involved turning away from the judgements of the Flesh and orientating oneself to the judgement of the spirit.  Jesus here says that we must be born of the spirit.  And he also gives us an attribute of the spirit.  It manifests as spontaneity.  You can't see it coming and you can't tell where it is going all you can tell is that you know what it is doing now, just like the wind.  
Sounds to me like he is saying that it's ways are not according to some code or formula.  Otherwise if it was a formula that you could decode then you would be able to predict it.  Some people try to nail it down almost to an algorithm.  lol!  That's all I can do, lol!!!  They obviously have no clue.  
"if this happens then the spirit will do that, because God is this, and that, so when the spirit says that it is because of that, and the spirit of God would never say that blah blah blah, because it is backed up by the bible and I have the secret code, and I know where the spirit is coming from and where it is going"   . . . . .   I laugh but actually it's not funny.  


I want to say another thing to buttress the first point about the kingdom being here and now:

25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? 27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

How can the kingdom of God precede our earthly nourishment and present life?  If our Earthly concerns will be sorted out after we first seek out the kingdom of heaven then the kingdom of heaven cannot be something only to be attained in the future after the end of this life.

If i compile this thread i'd have a theology text book.

Jesus then goes into a few other aspects of the Kingdom before he comes to this point where he explicitly states what is NOT required to enter the kingdom vis a vis what is required.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

It is not by using your mouth to trumpet lord lord, or singing alleluia or painting your buses with slogans "God is Good" etc, but by doing the will of the Father. Remember that the Kingdom of Heaven means the Rule of God. So these 2 are interchangeable. I'm under God's rule, God rules me, I am under his will ,and I am in the Kingdom of Heaven. It is a path of actions, of daily living, not an ideology.


24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

He commends those who hear these saying and does them. Their foundation is firm. They are on a firm footing.


And to summarize all:

28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his [size=15pt]doctrine[/size]:

This is Doctrine. Not the Doctrine of Pastor AIO, but of none other than Jesus who is called the Christ.

I thank you all for your patience. I am exhausted.

mavenbox:

Im following your posts, but I must confess, I skipped that explicit block of text [omigash! Too much detail there, God sees my heart, I tell the truth, I had to skip it]. More. . .?

Se you have glimpsed the dirty contents of my own sepulchre?

haha. Pastor u try o.

Bravo, Pastor, really great work. Just utterly brilliant. I myself didn't really know where to start from, but you have just nailed everything away fantastically.

Jesoul, where are you?

I want to see your response particularly to this -

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jesoul, this one is quite clear isn't it? ? ? ? ? ? ?

That confessing him as "lord, lord. . ." is nothing, but doing the will of the Father is everything. . . . .? ? ? ? ?

Do u guys think everything the Gospel writers attributed to Jesus was said by Jesus?

Basically I'm asking if u think every word of Jesus, according to 4 guys we know little to nothing about, is worth hangin on to and basing ur life on?

If you do, why? Why do u trust them so much?

@ Deepsight. . . U seem to be sceptical of a lot of christian "dogma", but not so much the "words of Jesus", please, if u no mind, can u explain why? I'm just curious

I will try to be as pithy as possible, as I'm borderline allergic to long posts.

Before I jump in on the "Kingdom of heaven" discussion. PastorAIO is it your position that there is no afterlife? and the kingdom of heaven is simply here on earth when we turn our lives around and repent?

Because the scriptures are obviously clear God expects us to be transformed here on earth so that we live out the kind of lives that please Him. Indeed in Luke 17 it says "the kingdom of God is within you". So yes you're right, the kingdom of heaven is here and now in that context.

---

But if the "kingdom of heaven" is only here on earth then what in the world is meant by Mark 16:19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.

if heaven is not an actual place but state of grace here on earth, then what is meant by Philippians 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth

if the Kingdom of heaven is not a place set aside for men and women who lived by faith as evidenced by their works, then what is Jn 14 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am   

    References to 'Heaven' in the bible include:
-'Heaven'
-'heavens'
-'Kingdom of heaven'
-'Kingdom of God'
-'first heaven'
-'third heaven'
etc . . .
. . . . now surely all these weren't simply refering to the life after repentance? surely Pastor?

Pastor AIO:

Jesus then goes into a few other aspects of the Kingdom before he comes to this point where he explicitly states what is NOT required to enter the kingdom vis a vis what is required.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

It is not by using your mouth to trumpet lord lord, or singing alleluia or painting your buses with slogans "God is Good" etc, but by doing the will of the Father. Remember that the Kingdom of Heaven means the Rule of God. So these 2 are interchangeable. I'm under God's rule, God rules me, I am under his will ,and I am in the Kingdom of Heaven. It is a path of actions, of daily living, not an ideology.


24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

He commends those who hear these saying and does them. Their foundation is firm. They are on a firm footing.


And to summarize all:

28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his [size=15pt]doctrine[/size]:

This is Doctrine. Not the Doctrine of Pastor AIO, but of none other than Jesus who is called the Christ.

I thank you all for your patience. I am exhausted.

Deep Sight:

Bravo, Pastor, really great work. Just utterly brilliant. I myself didn't really know where to start from, but you have just nailed everything away fantastically.

Jesoul, where are you?

I want to see your response particularly to this -

Jesoul, this one is quite clear isn't it? ? ? ? ? ? ?

That confessing him as "lord, lord. . ." is nothing, but doing the will of the Father is everything. . . . .? ? ? ? ?

I tire.

I have never disagreed with any of the above and infact have consistently agreed and even stated explicitly - doing the will of God is more than talk or proffession of a doctrine or belief - but is infact the doing of God's will - whether or not they 'knew' who God is as taught by the bible. Heck the bible is replete with examples of so called pagans and non-jews being heralded as icons of faith.

I dunno how else I can say this.

---

My only issue is with those who ignore all the other books and teachings in the NT and even from Jesus that teach about sin and the need for repentance and salvation. You're clutching on for dear life to only "works" divorced from faith in Christ. This is bible clearly called "righteousness that are as filthy rags".

I almost forgot.

In addition, I would like to hear Deepsight and AIO's understanding of the heaven/heavens as detailed in the entire book of Revelations. A few bullet points will do. Thanks.

Deep Sight:

Bravo, Pastor, really great work. Just utterly brilliant. I myself didn't really know where to start from, but you have just nailed everything away fantastically.

Jesoul, where are you?

I want to see your response particularly to this -

Jesoul, this one is quite clear isn't it? ? ? ? ? ? ?

That confessing him as "lord, lord. . ." is nothing, but doing the will of the Father is everything. . . . .? ? ? ? ?

First off, DeepSight, this is not a oneupmanship thing going on here. We are discussing salvation. I'm not on any team if you guys are doing debating society amongst yourselves.

I did not post all that I posted above to beat anyone over the head with it. She asked for my opinion on the Gospel of Christ and I answered as best I could.

Krayola:

Do u guys think everything the Gospel writers attributed to Jesus was said by Jesus?

Basically I'm asking if u think every word of Jesus, according to 4 guys we know little to nothing about, is worth hangin on to and basing your life on?

If you do, why? Why do u trust them so much?

@ Deepsight. . . U seem to be sceptical of a lot of christian "dogma", but not so much the "words of Jesus", please, if u no mind, can u explain why? I'm just curious

Mr Krayo, I'll get back to you later. The gospels might have been compiled after Paul's letters however there were christian communities before Paul's letters and they had sayings of Jesus that they shared, mostly by word of mouth called the logia. it is from these that the sayings of jesus in the gospels come from. However that is another matter altogether so let's leave that for now. Suffice to say that these logia predate anything that Paul wrote concerning christianity.

@jeseoul. If u, or anyone else is interested I have some lectures I can send u on this stuff. The files are too large to put on youtube and it's too much stuff to write in a post.

Pastor AIO:


Mr Krayo, I'll get back to you later. The gospels might have been compiled after Paul's letters however there were christian communities before Paul's letters and they had sayings of Jesus that they shared, mostly by word of mouth called the logia. it is from these that the sayings of jesus in the gospels come from. However that is another matter altogether so let's leave that for now. Suffice to say that these logia predate anything that Paul wrote concerning christianity.

ok sir

Pastor AIO:

First off, DeepSight, this is not a oneupmanship thing going on here. We are discussing salvation. I'm not on any team if you guys are doing debating society amongst yourselves.

E pe le o. E ma binu sir. I am not aware that i have suggested "oneupmanship" or "team" or "debating society" at all.

I feel very strongly about the issues here.

If you are offended that i thought your posts were brilliant than i apologize for stating so.

JeSoul:

I will try to be as pithy as possible, as I'm borderline allergic to long posts.

Before I jump in on the "Kingdom of heaven" discussion. PastorAIO is it your position that there is no afterlife? and the kingdom of heaven is simply here on earth when we turn our lives around and repent?

Because the scriptures are obviously clear God expects us to be transformed here on earth so that we live out the kind of lives that please Him. Indeed in Luke 17 it says "the kingdom of God is within you". So yes you're right, the kingdom of heaven is here and now in that context.

---

But if the "kingdom of heaven" is only here on earth then what in the world is meant by Mark 16:19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.

if heaven is not an actual place but state of grace here on earth, then what is meant by Philippians 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth

if the Kingdom of heaven is not a place set aside for men and women who lived by faith as evidenced by their works, then what is Jn 14 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am

References to 'Heaven' in the bible include:
-'Heaven'
-'heavens'
-'Kingdom of heaven'
-'Kingdom of God'
-'first heaven'
-'third heaven'
etc . . .
. . . . now surely all these weren't simply refering to the life after repentance? surely Pastor?

Hey, writing all those words wasn't a picnic for me either. You asked for it and that was as concise as I could have made my point, okay I admit I gave myself allowance for a few diversion here and there. What can I say? I was in the spirit.

That 'Afterlife' question is irrelevant to the subject of this thread. It is in itself another matter that would require a longassed exposition from me. The subject of this thread is salvation. I was asked about this before and I avoided answering because I felt no inspiration to answer. Yesterday I answered.

I've said it before and I'll say it again now that salvation is right here and now and within your grasp. Don't let yourself be beclouded with all these false doctrines that you have assimilated. I'm not trying to win an argument with you here on nairaland. I'm not asking you to agree with me explicitly. Just when you are alone in your quiet moment consider it within yourself. If you reject it, then so be it. If you accept it, so be it. You don't have to come back to me to tell me.


I never said that the kingdom of Heaven is only here on earth. I said that the kingdom of heaven is where the Will of God prevails. Does the Will of God prevail in the heavens?

Do I believe in the existence of Heaven? I don't need to believe, all I have to do is look upward. Heaven is evident.

You are a poet. What do you understand by the term 'metaphor'? When Jesus says that in his father's house there are many rooms does that mean that in the afterlife we are all going into one big house and each person will have his own room? Do you think we'll then meet for communal dinner downstairs of this giant house?

When Paul says he knows someone who was whisked into heavenly realms (bodily or not bodily, even he couldn't tell), what is your opinion? did you think it was bodily. did you think that this person, like mohammad in the quran, leap so high he went to heaven where he split the moon with a karate chop.

Krayola:

@jeseoul. If u, or anyone else is interested I have some lectures I can send u on this stuff. The files are too large to put on youtube and it's too much stuff to write in a post.

 Bring it on. My dad always said no knowledge is wasted . . . a motto I threw out at the begining of every philosophy class I ever took . But will holla in a minute brotha.

JeSoul:

 Bring it on. My dad always said no knowledge is wasted . . . a motto I threw out at the begining of every philosophy class I ever took . But will holla in a minute brotha.

haha. aight.

Please delete my email address from your post before awon boys send me letter to come and claim my billion dollar award from my late uncle that was chief of NNPC. 

Pastor AIO:

Hey, writing all those words wasn't a picnic for me either. You asked for it and that was as concise as I could have made my point, okay I admit I gave myself allowance for a few diversion here and there. What can I say? I was in the spirit.

 Lol . . . I got no problem wit dat. But really, thank you for induling my question in detail. I wasn't complaining about ur long post at all, just trying to keep my response simple so everyone can keep up.

That 'Afterlife' question is irrelevant to the subject of this thread. It is in itself another matter that would require a longassed exposition from me. The subject of this thread is salvation. I was asked about this before and I avoided answering because I felt no inspiration to answer. Yesterday I answered.

I don't think so, but I certainly can't twist ur arm into responding . . . or can I?

I've said it before and I'll say it again now that salvation is right here and now and within your grasp. Don't let yourself be beclouded with all these false doctrines that you have assimilated. I'm not trying to win an argument with you here on nairaland. I'm not asking you to agree with me explicitly. Just when you are alone in your quiet moment consider it within yourself. If you reject it, then so be it. If you accept it, so be it. You don't have to come back to me to tell me.

 My Pastor, I agree 100%.
I'm not sure what false doctrines you may be refering to. I agree we can be saved now . . . and the fulfilment of that salvation is when Christ returns to take us home.
1John Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure

I never said that the kingdom of Heaven is only here on earth. I said that the kingdom of heaven is where the Will of God prevails. Does the Will of God prevail in the heavens?

 Okay. I should've simply asked and waited your response before tagging it your position. My bad.

Its just that from the way you stated your response, it left the impression all there is to be had is to repent and you'll be in that heaven. The end.

Do I believe in the existence of Heaven? I don't need to believe, all I have to do is look upward. Heaven is evident.

You are a poet. What do you understand by the term 'metaphor'? When Jesus says that in his father's house there are many rooms does that mean that in the afterlife we are all going into one big house and each person will have his own room? Do you think we'll then meet for communal dinner downstairs of this giant house?

When Paul says he knows someone who was whisked into heavenly realms (bodily or not bodily, even he couldn't tell), what is your opinion? did you think it was bodily. did you think that this person, like mohammad in the quran, leap so high he went to heaven where he split the moon with a karate chop.

Of course not. They are indeed metaphors not meant to be a literal description of heaven. I just wanted to point out the the different uses of the word 'heaven' and also to state some meant it in regards to a "place", others an "experience".

Krayola:

haha. aight.

Please delete my email address from your post before awon boys send me letter to come and claim my billion dollar award from my late uncle that was chief of NNPC.

lol, deleted.

Pastor AIO:

When Paul says he knows someone who was whisked into heavenly realms (bodily or not bodily, even he couldn't tell), what is your opinion? did you think it was bodily. did you think that this person, like mohammad in the quran, leap so high he went to heaven where he split the moon with a karate chop.

Krayola send those videos to my mailbox please. . .my email is on my profile.

Krayola, I didn't have time to jot your email before you deleted it.

When I saw the email my first thought was, "Oh my goodness, he's brave!".

Pastor AIO:

Krayola, I didn't have time to jot your email before you deleted it.

When I saw the email my first thought was, "Oh my goodness, he's brave!".

haha. I'll post it again next time u're online

@Topic: personally, i think some intricate meaning is often displaced when people refer to "Confessing Christ as saviour".

To confess Christ is not just to mumble the magic words like super-Ted. It is to decide to be his ambassador and represent him fully, not just going through the motions but working out the salvation daily.

Its like the same way a man changes nationality from Russian to American and he swears allegiance to the USA. Meanwhile, maybe there are Nigerian students living in the USA who are die-hard patriots of the "Alien" land. People who see them believe they must be citizens because they live the life and walk the talk of the true American blood. But when the chips are down, only folks like that ex-Russian guy have the legal right to be considered as a citizen, even if he didnt make noise like those 9ja guys that were trying to blend in.

When they try to resist being deported, they will be told by the authorities, "Even though you did such and such in Uncle Sam's name, I do not know you". Of course they are not known by Uncle Sam (the United States)! Simply taking that step of faith to nationalize would have saved them. But rather, they chose to act like citizens [trying to walk in love] when they were not. That simple paperwork would have saved them. On the other hand, all the nationalized Americans who are not patriotic, will be judged for their actions, but by American terms which is an altogether different case from the ones who will not even be given a hearing because they are not citizens.

Salvation is akin to nationalization, Walking in Love [salvation of the soul] is akin to patriotism.

Not every one who acts like a patriot is a legal citizen. When you become a citizen, you need to forget about your patriotism to Russia and learn to walk in love like the Americans. There may be temptations to stand up for Russia and you will need to handle them. You may make some mistakes on your way to absolute patriotism but you will get there if you are determined.

In summary, guys like Gandhi, I cannot say for sure if he truly lived as a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven, (where the thoughts and intents and actions are all very visible to God the Judge), and I will not be quick to make the judgment just because he appeared to walk in love as far as man could see. But God made a provision to be a "citizen" by simply "mouthing it", although meaning it.

KJV VERSION
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

THE MESSAGE VERSION
Rom 10:9 Say the welcoming word to God--"Jesus is my Master"--embracing, body and soul, God's work of doing in us what he did in raising Jesus from the dead. That's it. You're not "doing" anything; you're simply calling out to God, trusting him to do it for you. That's salvation.
Rom 10:10 With your whole being you embrace God setting things right, and then you say it, right out loud: "God has set everything right between him and me!"
Rom 10:11 Scripture reassures us, "No one who trusts God like this--heart and soul--will ever regret it."
Rom 10:12 It's exactly the same no matter what a person's religious background may be: the same God for all of us, acting the same incredibly generous way to everyone who calls out for help.
Rom 10:13 "Everyone who calls, 'Help, God!' gets help."
Rom 10:14 But how can people call for help if they don't know who to trust? And how can they know who to trust if they haven't heard of the One who can be trusted? And how can they hear if nobody tells them?
Rom 10:15 And how is anyone going to tell them, unless someone is sent to do it? That's why Scripture exclaims, A sight to take your breath away! Grand processions of people telling all the good things of God!

And Romans 10:14-15 explains why evangelism is appropriate, rather than a means of spreading a message that places people between the devil and the deep blue sea, like DeepSight said earlier on.

And thats what I have to say about all of this.

I hope that came out right cos i typed it in a hurry. Lol.

@Krayola: I created a gmail account, mavenbox@gmail.com, please send me the videos too. Im a very great fan of information. Thanks.