OneJ:

In Hebrew "ehyeh asher ehyeh" means. " I will become what/who I will become" ( Exodus 3:14 ). "Ego himi ho on " is not the Greek equivalent for Hebrew's ehyeh asher ehyeh. Stop being dishonest,Oga Pastor. White can never be black. pls Stick to the bitter truth.

PastorAIO:


What appears is the tetragrammaton Yod He Vau He in the Old Testament. Nobody knows what the vowels between the letters are. It was a closely guarded secret. And those that are crying Jehovah Jehovah now are just exercising their over active imaginations.

What do you call a supposed child who doesn't even know his father's name?

OneJ:

Again,U refused to admit that U LIED against Mr Charles Russell with your false claims that he committed perjury, when indeed no court of law ever adjudged on it. That link I shared exposed your falsehood.
Now, U done come again with your lies.
Make I help U small... go read the Wikipedia entry about NWT. Some praised it ,others criticised it that Jehovah appeared in the Greek Scriptures instead of kyrios (LORD). That criticism is expected. But U & I, know that "LORD" is a substitute for YHWH (thats Jehovah,Yahweh). & often times ,those passages where direct quotations of the old testament (OT)

For instance, Matt4:4 is a direct quote of Deut 8:3., YHWH is there in the OT, not LORD.

Since Acts28:6 is "a god" then it is fraudulent to change John 1:1 to "God". (In the Greek manuscript it's lowercase "god". It's very clear that the NWT & 14 other Bible versions were more accurate than the popular ones which twist God's word.
The fact remains that NWT is among the best Bible versions available. Many persons I have met, who are not JWs own a copy& they attest that it's the most easy to read & understand. Actually,just like F.W.Franz, U don't need paper qualifications to study & gain understanding of God's word. A Committee of faithful ,God fearing Christians handled the project over many years & to Jehovah's glory, they did well. Shalom.

Hairyrapunzel:

Just the way you guys dubiously put jehovah 218 times in the new testament when it never appears once.

OneJ:

Oga Pastor, In your own words, "it is grammatically incongruous that the reference is to the 'I am' at the burning bush "
.Oga, Pastor, U are so confused & so dishonest that U can't help it but contradict yourself. Again, In your own words " there is the theologically significant use of "I am" that is used to make reference to Jehovah.... He declared his name to be "I am". He didn't say tell them that " I have been" sent you". After your initial denial, U mischievously linked together "I am" in Hebrew to "I am" in Greek. U lied sotayy U come get confusion transmission.

Hebrew language has no present tense. Therefore "I am" , is not a Hebrew word & can never have the same meaning with Greek Ego eimi.. Therefore ,your claim about John 8:58 is built on quicksand,very weak foundation. Besides, John 8:12-58, Jesus never said he is God. Rather, he said he spoke the message that God sent him & also gave proof that he is the son of God.

PastorAIO:



But the book of John was written in Greek and greek has present tense. Ego Eimi is present tense.

And as it happens, it is Ego Eimi that we are talking about not any hebrew word.


Out of interest then, what point were you trying to make when you quoted 2Sam2:20 about Asahel's statement?

OneJ:
In addition, followers of Christ & even the Jews themselves never said " I am that I am". It's not Hebrew language.
The actual,authentic Hebrew phrase they say (even till today) is "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" translated to English thus :" I shall become (prove to be) what I shall become (prove to be).
Na fake slogan "I am" wey no dey Hebrew language naim una take dey defend fallacy.
In conclusion, your Trinity is a man made fallacy. Take it or leave it.

PastorAIO:




Let me clear it up for other readers. I know that this OneJ guy is a lost cause given over to deceit and won't listen to this history.


The early Christians and most Jews around the time of Jesus did not read the bible in Hebrew and hadn't read it in Hebrew for about 300 years.
You see, around the 3th century BCE the Hebrew bible was translated into Greek and this translation was called the Septuagint. Google Septuagint.

The early christians wrote the new testament in Greek and when they made reference to the Old testament they clearly made reference to the greek version of the old testament, the Septuagint.

So in order to know how the early christians understood Exodus 3:14 we have to look at the Septuagint version which is the version that they read and not the Hebrew version. So while the Hebrew language may not have obvious ways of expressing the present tense the Greek of the septuagint did so very clearly.

How does the Septuagint translate Ehyer Asher Ehyer? They translate it as: Ego Eimi ho on.

Yes that's right, the Earliest christians and possibly even Jesus himself read the septuagint and read Exodus 3:14 as Ego Eimi which is the Present Tense in Greek for 'To Be'. In other words: I Am


It doesn't matter whether this is an accurate translation or not for the student of Christianity. The important thing is that that is what the Christians read and accepted. And that is what they built their theology on.

Many Jews to this day still argue that Christianity is based on a mistranslation of the Hebrew bible. Another passage they like to critize is in Isaiah. Isaiah 7:14. .... And a Virgin shall conceive.

The actual Hebrew word that is used there is Almah. "An Almah shall conceive".

In actual fact 'Almah' is simply Hebrew for a Young woman. The real hebrew word for Virgin is Betulah.

However the Septuagint translated Almah into Greek as Virgin and that is where the christian doctrine of the virgin birth originated from because the Christian all read the Septuagint. Throughout the New Testament when they talk of the scriptures it is the Septuagint that they quote from consistently.





So the Conclusion:

All mister OneJ 's barking about the original hebrew is just a display of his lack of knowledge of Christianity, especially early christianity.

Early Christianity is based on the Septuagint which is a Greek manuscript and in the Septuagint Exodus 3:14 is translated as Ego Eimi Ho On. Which is totally present tense.




Mister OneJ would you like to try another move? I'm quite enjoying rebuffing your desperate attempts.

PastorAIO:




Let me clear it up for other readers. I know that this OneJ guy is a lost cause given over to deceit and won't listen to this history.


The early Christians and most Jews around the time of Jesus did not read the bible in Hebrew and hadn't read it in Hebrew for about 300 years.
You see, around the 3th century BCE the Hebrew bible was translated into Greek and this translation was called the Septuagint. Google Septuagint.

The early christians wrote the new testament in Greek and when they made reference to the Old testament they clearly made reference to the greek version of the old testament, the Septuagint.

So in order to know how the early christians understood Exodus 3:14 we have to look at the Septuagint version which is the version that they read and not the Hebrew version. So while the Hebrew language may not have obvious ways of expressing the present tense the Greek of the septuagint did so very clearly.

How does the Septuagint translate Ehyer Asher Ehyer? They translate it as: Ego Eimi ho on.

Yes that's right, the Earliest christians and possibly even Jesus himself read the septuagint and read Exodus 3:14 as Ego Eimi which is the Present Tense in Greek for 'To Be'. In other words: I Am


It doesn't matter whether this is an accurate translation or not for the student of Christianity. The important thing is that that is what the Christians read and accepted. And that is what they built their theology on.

Many Jews to this day still argue that Christianity is based on a mistranslation of the Hebrew bible. Another passage they like to critize is in Isaiah. Isaiah 7:14. .... And a Virgin shall conceive.

The actual Hebrew word that is used there is Almah. "An Almah shall conceive".

In actual fact 'Almah' is simply Hebrew for a Young woman. The real hebrew word for Virgin is Betulah.

However the Septuagint translated Almah into Greek as Virgin and that is where the christian doctrine of the virgin birth originated from because the Christian all read the Septuagint. Throughout the New Testament when they talk of the scriptures it is the Septuagint that they quote from consistently.





So the Conclusion:

All mister OneJ 's barking about the original hebrew is just a display of his lack of knowledge of Christianity, especially early christianity.

Early Christianity is based on the Septuagint which is a Greek manuscript and in the Septuagint Exodus 3:14 is translated as Ego Eimi Ho On. Which is totally present tense.




Mister OneJ would you like to try another move? I'm quite enjoying rebuffing your desperate attempts.

OneJ:

In your own words, "the early Christians & most Jews around the time of Christ did not read the Bible in Hebrew & hadn't read it in Hebrew for about 300 years"
If we are to believe the trash U typed above, the Jews them done forget Hebrew & bury their language finish sotay them no dey speak am & even read Hebrew Torah scroll for their synagogues again
(If na only Septuagint dey at that time, So, U mean say them troway all the Hebrew scrolls wey them take write the Septuagint too !!!! Hahahahaaaa. )
Also, since them no dey read or speak Hebrew for their homes & inside synagogue, " for over 300years" , them no know say "I am" no dey Hebrew language... (Oga Pastor, fafafa foul.. this your lie na ogidigan.. Hhmmmm! ).
Oga Pastor said "it doesn't matter whether this (Septuagint ) is an accurate translation or not for the student of Christianity..... & that is what they built their theology on".
For example, if U wrote a book in Yoruba & U gave permission to a Greek translator to publish a Greek version of your book. After the work is done, U later found out that in chapter 3 ,the content & meaning is very different & contradicts your original book, would U accept that & praise the work & recommend it to the general public ?
Any deviation from the Hebrew texts (the original source) ,God says it's Unacceptable.1Thes5:20,21. Rev22:18,19
Nairalanders, PastorA10 doesn't mind to propagate the theology built on falsehood & man made fallacy (trinity).
Indeed, by their fruits ye shall know them (Matt7:15-20) who deny that Jesus is the son of God. Even though God revealed that Jesus is the son of the Living God (Matt16:13-17. 1John4:15. 5:10) but them say na lie.

PastorAIO:
And with these words you have just attacked the entire basis of Christianity and even the words of Jesus himself.

All the quotations of the OT that the apostles make are from the Septuagint. Even when Jesus quotes the OT he quotes the Septuagint to if you think that the Septuagint is 'Unacceptable' then you obviously consider Jesus to be false and unacceptable too and Peter and Paul and all the apostles that quote extensively from the Septuagint.

You've just attacked the very premises of Christianity just to protect your vile evil pedophilic cult.

truthislight:








Deut 8:3

So he humbled you and let you go hungry and fed you with the manna, which neither you had known nor your fathers had known, in order to make you know that man does not live by bread alone but man lives by every expression from Jehovah’s mouth

Matt 4:4

But he answered: “It is written: ‘Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word that comes from Jehovah’s mouth
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That the above statement in Matthew 4:4 is a quote picked from Deut 8:3, in Deut 8:3 where the original statement was made, people don't find fault that the name Yahweh/Jehovah was used there in certain translations, but are saying that it is wrong for the name Yahweh to be in the same same statement in Matthew 4:4.

PastorAIO:


Did you realise that the language spoken by Jews in Palestine at the time of Jesus was in fact Aramaic and not Hebrew.

OneJ:

LIES &FALSEHOOD!
All these your long epistle are half hearted measures at best. Where & when did Jesus "quotes extensively from the Greek translation"?
Rather, Jesus extensively quoted the Hebrew scriptures for instance, in Matt4:4 he quoted Deut8:3. In John 10:34 he quoted Psalms 82:6 etc. He never twisted the word of God unlike U guys that gave endorsed the falsified the word.
Contrary to your claim, those who disagree with the Greek translation of the corrupted "I am" inserted into Hebrew are far more honest than the multitude who accepted the fallacy U have been putting up excuses to defend.
Today, there are multiple extant manuscripts far older than the Septuagint & as a result the falsified insertion of "I am" & other errors has been exposed. Pride ,ego & arrogance wey una get no go let una accept the truth.
God can never lie ( Hebrew 6:18. John17:17). Neither does HE accept Jewish fable & myths ("I am" that His word condemned in very strong terms ( Titus 1:13,14. 2Thess1:9-11. Rom1:25).
PastorA10, believe what U wanna believe.. but at your own risk.
Nairalanders, following this thread,as U can see (& going by what has been confirmed by Pastor A10) , the fact. is that the Trinity fallacy is built on the falsified insertion of the term "I am" (not a Hebrew word ) into Hebrew Old testament of the Greek Septuagint.
Statement of fact:Trinity is a man made fallacy, not taught by Jesus Christ or his followers, except U wanna twist the Bible to get your answer b4 the question.
PastorA10, thanks for your time. I'm done with U. Shalom.

truthislight:
So, the language that Moses used in the Exod and the burning bush and all was greek because of the Septuagint

truthislight:
You see your life? When you were asking Jman to speak Greek, You never imagined that Moses spoke Hebrew language and that they both never originally use the same word for I AM, you were pushing it as though Moses and Jesus used the same exact word.

Your lying ability or na ignorance has phd. Oloshi!

OneJ:
"Hecedh" also spelt. "checedh" ,the exact Hebrew word there meaning loving kindness. It is synonymous or equivalent to mercy ,goodness, kindness or brotherly love.
In Hebrew "ehyeh asher ehyeh" means. " I will become what/who I will become" ( Exodus 3:14 ). "Ego himi ho on " is not the Greek equivalent for Hebrew's ehyeh asher ehyeh. Stop being dishonest,Oga Pastor. White can never be black. pls Stick to the bitter truth.

truthislight:
O keep silent!

Was the temple in Jerusalem not in existence as of then? Were there no copies of the original Hebrew scriptures? Were the Jews and Kings of Israel not consistently ask to make copies of the Law and other part of the OT?

Stop the lies.

truthislight:


Pastor AIO wants to come speak Greek with me and JMan05.

Him been dey jump up for this thread like sa him be Boxer wey want fight for ring. Local lying champion like him. Fake pastor aio. Now i know why @Enigma was always cursing you. Oloshi!

PastorAIO:


Thank you so much for drawing my attention to this other instance of Jesus quoting from the Septuagint.

So the question you should ask is: Why did Jesus not use YHWH when he was quoting that scripture?


The answer is: Because Jesus was quoting it from the Septuagint which always translated YHWH as Kyrios, meaning Lord in Greek.

It is obvious that Jesus (or the writer of Matthew) read the Septuagint because he makes the same translation of YHWH to Kyrios. Jesus never says YHWH as in the Hebrew bible, but says Kyrios as in the Septuagint.

PastorAIO:


And you have now joined him in the cursing.

truthislight:



See how you are talking like a kid. How can the translators in a time they have refused to make use of the name of Yahweh agree to use it in Greek?

That it was not written in no way implies that what they wrote in actual is the exact words Jesus had used.

But we know that he quoted a statement that contained the name of Yahweh in Deut 8:3.

And again, Jesus Christ did not need to depend on the Septuagint to know what was written in the original Hebrew manuscript.

PastorAIO:


But the passage in the Septuagint says 'Kyrios' meaning Lord.

Of course we can't be sure that what the gospels quote are the actual words of Jesus. But we know that when quoting a passage that contained the name YHWH he is said to have used 'Kyrios' just like the LXX does. Furthermore we see the LXX quoted all over the new testament. Early Christianity did not take LXX as a joke.

When Jesus said 'I Am' he was quoting LXX too. The fact that he knew what the passage said in Hebrew has no bearing on what we are discussing. The fact is that Jesus was making a point based on the LXX reading which he knew that all his readers who also read LXX would understand.
Or perhaps I should say that the writer of John's gospel read LXX and knew that his readers too read the LXX and the point he was trying to make was based on that LXX version, as much else in Christianity is based on the LXX.

Again, no one can seriously dismiss the LXX and still seriously consider themselves a christian.

truthislight:


On red is your word, you can't decide who Yahweh approves only Yahweh can. Hence, your above statement does not define who Yahweh has chosen neither can you reward anybody with everlasting life.

kkins25:
Pastoraio vs trughtislight in order words facts vs sentiment

PastorAIO:
More on the LXX here:
https://www.nairaland.com/1224167/contra-bibliolatreia-ii-septuagint

Geist:
Derailing a bit here, but I have been listening a lot to Jordan Peterson and I find a lot of his posits on religion similar to yours, Do you know him and agree to many of the things he says on religion? Also I would love to know if there are things you disagree a lot with in his saying.

Geist:
Derailing a bit here, but I have been listening a lot to Jordan Peterson and I find a lot of his posits on religion similar to yours, Do you know him and agree to many of the things he says on religion? Also I would love to know if there are things you disagree a lot with in his saying.

Geist:
Derailing a bit here, but I have been listening a lot to Jordan Peterson and I find a lot of his posits on religion similar to yours, Do you know him and agree to many of the things he says on religion? Also I would love to know if there are things you disagree a lot with in his saying.

PastorAIO:


But one thing that he says that I have to give him kudos for is his teaching to Always Tell the Truth.

This is a very powerful practice and it is not easy to do. It also yields very powerful personality changes for the better in those who can practice it. The difficulty lies in the fact that when one tells the Truth many things seem to go wrong before they even begin to go right. To put it in the terms of Christ Mythology, One will have to experience Death before one can experience a Glorious Resurrection. The path of Truth leads you to ignominy and shame before it brings you into Glory.

Geist:
I must say I was a bit surprised you had more criticism than praise. I found some of his teachings on the Logus similar to yours but I think you pretty much agree with that. However I find your criticism also very similar to this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU1LhcEh8Ms which also accuses him of having a very shallow definition of postmodernism and basing a lot of claims on this. Thanks though for offering your opinion on it. Are there any books you would say influenced your thoughts on philosophy and theology you would recommend? One that wouldn't be too difficult for newbie to understand.

PastorAIO:



whatever the language that Moses spoke was the facts are:

1) The OT was translated into Greek in the 3rd century BCE. The translation was called the Septuagint, aka LXX, and it was believed to be divinely inspired.

2)The writers of the New Testament quoted extensively from the LXX and have Jesus quoting from the LXX. As you have kindly shown us, Jesus used the Kyrios when quoting the OT rather than YHWH.

3) Much of Christian theology is based on the LXX, including the teachings of Jesus.

4) None of this negates the original Hebrew scriptures. Nobody is attacking the original Hebrew scriptures. It is you lot that are attacking the LXX even though Jesus quotes from it again and again and it is the very basis of Christianity.

Again I ask. Since you hate the LXX so much then why do you call yourself a Christian?