@ Poster
Yes, why not? MLK was a Reverend gentleman. It is on record that his protests were not-violent and they achieved the desired results. I had wanted to quote Edmund Burke too to prove that point but someone had beaten me to it.
Christians are supposed to be agents of change and pastors are leaders, yes God ordained leaders. It is indeed glorious and delightful when they lead the path to restoration.

@kobo its not abt rules or verses in the bible it is abt decorum nd understandin ur role in a society they are shepherds to us the flock as spiritual leaders so it would not make sense for a shepherd to join a group of its flock against another group of its flock. Pastors are also like parents in a home they are supposed to be neutral so that they can mediate sometimes this mayb dificult but it stil wil not take away d fact that a good parent should remain neutral

marvix:

@kobo its not abt rules or verses in the bible it is abt decorum nd understandin your role in a society they are shepherds to us the flock as spiritual leaders so it would not make sense for a shepherd to join a group of its flock against another group of its flock.

You are still talking of rules. Where do you get them from?

marvix:

Pastors are also like parents in a home they are supposed to be neutral so that they can mediate sometimes this mayb dificult but it stil wil not take away d fact that a good parent should remain neutral

Parents are not neutral. Kids know their parents are just like them in all ways . . . . Even with urges.
I don’t think you are being fair in your assessment here since you are holding them to levels even the bible does not. Even Paul had some political ideas of his own to share in the same book.

@kobo if a parent takes sides in their children squabbles its wrong it doesn't matter if we all do it but it is wrong bicos d child who is wrong wil find it dificult to take correction also Paul didn't hold a political view strong enough to hav made him record in the bible pls don't bring that in pastors should realise their position in the society. Has it never occured to u that we really don't have elder statesmen in this country nd dat maybe at the root of our problems in this country

marvix:

@kobo if a parent takes sides in their children squabbles its wrong it doesn't matter if we all do it but it is wrong bicos d child who is wrong wil find it dificult to take correction

That is NOT always the case. There is NO LAW against Parents taking sides, especially when it patterns to justice. Why in the world do you think the bible advises we SPARE NOT THE ROD? When a child is wrong, a child is wrong. A Parent would be doing the other child harm if he/she chooses not to discipline the child that has erred just because. Look at the story of Cain and Abel and how God took sides almost immediately.

marvix:

also Paul didn't hold a political view strong enough to hav made him record in the bible

Read your Bible, Paul held a political view and he shared it.

marvix:

pls don't bring that in pastors should realise their position in the society. Has it never occured to u that we really don't have elder statesmen in this country nd dat maybe at the root of our problems in this country

Again I say this, pastors are HUMAN BEINGS. Please stop producing these STANDARDS when even the Bible God DOES NOT.

About the elder statement comment, why aren’t you one? How about YOU step you and be one since you seem to know what standards you would want of them and all that?

A pastor can speak out against injustice.  Slavery ended because Christians denounced it soundly. William Wilberforce (though not a pastor) single handedly
fought the British parliament to enact law banning slavery.

Carrying placards is everyone's responsibility.  Many famous pastors not only carried placards but demonstrated against injustice. Rev MLK,  Bishop Desmond Tutu
are notable ones. As a matter of fact, the more they speak out, the better for Nigeria. The Bible is replete with many examples, Jeremiah, John the Baptist that was beheaded
for speaking out against Herod, and Nathan who confronted David for his affair with Bathsheba.

Having said that, the primary role of a pastor is to shepherd his flock and instill righteousness into his ward.

I didn't say parents should spare the rod I said they should be neutral that is they should be like Judges in court are not expected to take sides God didn't take sides with Abel he pronounced judgement just like he did in the case of Adam nd Eve in the garden of eden. Paul didn't atleast lead a political protest nd did I say a pastor should not have a political view all I said was that in my opinion it was not right for him to be on the street protesting in a political protest. About elderstatesmen not just anybody assumes dat role take a look at Mandela wen the issue of Mbeki vs Zuma came up can u tell me as a matter of fact on whose side Mandela was. He stood for Justice

@eyesonyou yes christians yes the pastors can encourage their members when Nathan went to David did he mobilise people to go and question the king he sought his audience got it and passed across Gods message nd left that's d pastors role pray for peace in the land Bishop Desmond Tutu fought against apartheid then all southafricans and indeed africans fought against it but after independence has Desmond been in the news pushin for reforms or can u tell me the Bishops political party? I'm sure that at election time all contestants can approach him for blessings

I would rather have a Bakare who speaks and act against the stealing politicians

Than a Daddy GO who would host the thieves at his dining table and plan how to exploit the country

marvix:

@eyesonyou yes christians yes the pastors can encourage their members when Nathan went to David did he mobilise people to go and question the king he sought his audience got it and passed across Gods message nd left that's d pastors role pray for peace in the land Bishop Desmond Tutu fought against apartheid then all southafricans and indeed africans fought against it but after independence has Desmond been in the news pushin for reforms or can u tell me the Bishops political party? I'm sure that at election time all contestants can approach him for blessings

True dat to some of your stance.  Medium of communication is dynamic, what obtained in the Biblical period may not be applicable today. But the message is the same:
speaking out against injustice.   I have not been following Desmond Tutu for now, I am sure he is still active on some issues.
I agree that pastors have no business with political affliations. Like I said earlier, their primary role is to shepherd, period.
But we cannot ignore their influence in our society.

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Pastor or no pastor,  He is first and foresmost a citizen., a lawyer and therefore has every rightto protest and carry placards. He is doing his civic duties to protest a dubious government.

And, only a Pastor who does not harbour Stealing executhieves can do that, and that is the future of Nigeria. Yo should also read his presentation in the punch newspapers. He was going to do a Live Radio broadcast before NBC cancel the event and he preached it in his church.


I think our brothers up North are just like YAR A'CLUELESS, they have no clue and don't care or see the need to have it since to them development is a priviledge and not a right of citizen.

They are Not interested in development neither do they want the South to develop. Infact, if the OIL from the South South is in the North, they will introduce Sharia Law for the south to accept.

True dat to some of your stance.  Medium of communication is dynamic, what obtained in the Biblical period may not be applicable today. But the message is the same:
speaking out against injustice.   I have not been following Desmond Tutu for now, I am sure he is still active on some issues.
I agree that pastors have no business with political affliations. Like I said earlier, their primary role is to shepherd, period.
But we cannot ignore their influence in our society.

%everyday this site upload 20-50 mtn rechargecards. someone email this site a recharge card printer asking me to join their promotions i do and one early morning i was visiting the site and i have 1500 that day. The second day i have 750 lastweek.

dayokanu:

I would rather have a Bakare who speaks and act against the stealing politicians

Than a Daddy GO who would host the thieves at his dining table and plan how to exploit the country

*********************
You have just said it AS IT IS. PERIOD.

@marvix

I think you need a re-think , what would u do as a sheperd if ur flock are going through what Nigerians are going through now? Yu will just be neutral abi ?. let me tell you David, Paul , Martin Luther King, Desmond Tutu and many other are been remembered today for the action that they took again the people oppressing their flocks .

Why did david not be neutral when Goliath was a terror to the Isrealites ?

Why is John the baptists talk when herod was wrong?

Why did nathan talk when david sin?

Why was Eli punished for been neutral ?

Why did mordecai fight for the Jews?

Why did Jesus beat people selling at the temple when the leaders support it ?

My advice to you is that any leader that is neutral that the point for oppression is worst than the DEVIL.

A pastor is a title not a sacred God so he can do whatever a normal person does , we are all equal

Pls stop ur baseless philosophies.

Ride on Pastor Bakare.

If other pastor cannot jin we will support him and when the change comes we will all see who is wrong or right

In forums like these, it is very common to expect responses from different experiences and I dare say, most of the responses are very intelligent as they address the issues headlong, I must say that a man is restricted to the level of information that he has acquired over the years and that does not even impose his understanding on others whose strength of experience far outweighs his little mind.
When it comes to the issues of the bible and those who are guides, the bible speak for it and the information is better understood by a man in whose heart God is
Sometimes is interesting when circular deduction is made or logical reasoning imposed to dictates a right action or wrong action which relates to a person of God as has been done by most respondents
I have seen reference to Moses, and all sort, the Kingdom of God at this time requires that a Christian must allow some form of cheating to be done to them
“ Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.” Mattew 5;38-39 this is what Jesus brought as one of the life in the kingdom,
Let me also remind those who do not know that Isaiah 53;7 said of Jesus “He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.” 1 peter 2;23 also said, “Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:”
We should not follow a type of xtianity by assumption that all actions are acceptable before God
“Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me”. Matt 4; 8-9
It behoves on us to let God fight his cause and not try to help him in suggesting that the God of heaven is weak like most people do
Does god regard distance?
I king 17;1 talks of a man of Authority not a Placard carrier “And Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab, As the LORD God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, but according to my word.”
Let us not limit God by carnal wisdom, If we have no business being a man of God, then be a lawyer or whatever

In forums like these, it is very common to expect responses from different experiences and I dare say, most of the responses are very intelligent as they address the issues headlong, I must say that a man is restricted to the level of information that he has acquired over the years and that does not even impose his understanding on others whose strength of experience far outweighs his little mind.
When it comes to the issues of the bible and those who are guides, the bible speak for it and the information is better understood by a man in whose heart God is
Sometimes is interesting when circular deduction is made or logical reasoning imposed to dictates a right action or wrong action which relates to a person of God as has been done by most respondents
I have seen reference to Moses, and all sort, the Kingdom of God at this time requires that a Christian must allow some form of cheating to be done to them
“ Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.” Mattew 5;38-39 this is what Jesus brought as one of the life in the kingdom,
Let me also remind those who do not know that Isaiah 53;7 said of Jesus “He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.” 1 peter 2;23 also said, “Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:”
We should not follow a type of xtianity by assumption that all actions are acceptable before God
“Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me”. Matt 4; 8-9
It behoves on us to let God fight his cause and not try to help him in suggesting that the God of heaven is weak like most people do
Does god regard distance?
I king 17;1 talks of a man of Authority not a Placard carrier “And Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab, As the LORD God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, but according to my word.”
Let us not limit God by carnal wisdom, If we have no business being a man of God, then be a lawyer or whatever
[color=#006600][/color]

dayokanu:

I would rather have a Bakare who speaks and act against the stealing politicians
Than a Daddy GO who would host the thieves at his dining table and plan how to exploit the country

I didn't say nothing, just laughing like this

oldtime:

In forums like these, it is very common to expect responses from different experiences and I dare say, most of the responses are very intelligent as they address the issues headlong, I must say that a man is restricted to the level of information that he has acquired over the years and that does not even impose his understanding on others whose strength of experience far outweighs his little mind.
When it comes to the issues of the bible and those who are guides, the bible speak for it and the information is better understood by a man in whose heart God is
Sometimes is interesting when circular deduction is made or logical reasoning imposed to dictates a right action or wrong action which relates to a person of God as has been done by most respondents
I have seen reference to Moses, and all sort, the Kingdom of God at this time requires that a Christian must allow some form of cheating to be done to them
“ Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.” Mattew 5;38-39 this is what Jesus brought as one of the life in the kingdom,
Let me also remind those who do not know that Isaiah 53;7 said of Jesus “He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.” 1 peter 2;23 also said, “Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:”
We should not follow a type of xtianity by assumption that all actions are acceptable before God
“Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me”. Matt 4; 8-9
It behoves on us to let God fight his cause and not try to help him in suggesting that the God of heaven is weak like most people do
Does god regard distance?
I king 17;1 talks of a man of Authority not a Placard carrier “And Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab, As the LORD God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, but according to my word.”
Let us not limit God by carnal wisdom, If we have no business being a man of God, then be a lawyer or whatever
[color=#006600][/color]

Keep on holding on to religious cotton wool in your self righteous quest on the error of Bakare to have joined in with civil disobedience. God has power but how does he go about delivering his people if not using a man? @ least we know he's [Bakare] taking action by speaking out and joining in protests rather than anointing this looters with Ororo [Olive oil whey dem suppose dey take fry dodo] so that their stealing can be sanctified and allowing them sit in the front pews with their harems.
Seems you are still holding on to illusions seeing even Christ did not speak the Word when he confronted those who brought and sold in the temple but with a whip he drove them out. When Moses confronted Pharoah [a political power], was he instigating civil disobedience or doing God's work? That you are a conservative Christian pining for heaven on a corrupt earth through only prayer is not a bad thing in itself. Keep praying while we keep marching and supporting marches. Most important thing as long as we have a new 9ja all na for the glory of God.

marvix:

I didn't say parents should spare the rod I said they should be neutral that is they should be like Judges in court are not expected to take sides God didn't take sides with Abel he pronounced judgement just like he did in the case of Adam nd Eve in the garden of eden. Paul didn't atleast lead a political protest nd did I say a pastor should not have a political view all I said was that in my opinion it was not right for him to be on the street protesting in a political protest. About elderstatesmen not just anybody assumes dat role take a look at Mandela wen the issue of Mbeki vs Zuma came up can u tell me as a matter of fact on whose side Mandela was. He stood for Justice

And calling on the National Assembly to do what is right & written in black and white in the constitution in swearing in Jonathan is not standing for Justice?
Were you high on somethiing whilst typing?

marvix:

@eyesonyou yes christians yes the pastors can encourage their members when Nathan went to David did he mobilise people to go and question the king he sought his audience got it and passed across Gods message nd left that's d pastors role pray for peace in the land Bishop Desmond Tutu fought against apartheid then all southafricans and indeed africans fought against it but after independence has Desmond been in the news pushin for reforms or can u tell me the Bishops political party? I'm sure that at election time all contestants can approach him for blessings

What 9ja has been lacking is a leadership structure to channel their aggression against bad government policies.
Labour tried but seems to have lost steam.
If Save Nigeria Group will provide that platform, WONDERFUL!
Did he say he's supporting any political party?
Has he ever told his congregation to vote for a certain candidate?
Let us know this things instead of this your thinly veiled anti-Bakare posture!

I read the argument for and against and all I can say is that some people think that being a man of God means being silly. They thought the moment you carry the acronym 'man of God', you are now a zombie, whose job is to pray and pray and do nothing but pray.
There is place for prayer. But your action should tell me whether you have faith in your prayers. The problem of Christendom is we pray for one thing and do exact opposite of what we prayed for. Where pray for good governance, but Christian neither vote nor support election.
We pray for peace, but we neither defend justice nor speak against evil.
I remembered vividly that in 2003 general election, which was widely rigged and flawed with massive irregularities, Obj called an arraign of Men of God to his inauguration service. It was only Pastor Tunde Bakare that came out openly to condemn the actions of these Men of God in validating open fraud and theft of ballot.
I sincerely commend the actions of Pastor Bakare. I believe in what he believes. He is a voice that can never be ignore anywhere in Nigeria. And we know where he stands not only on politics but also on the issue of commercialisation of churches by these cowardly Men of God, who would rather fraternise with Government while people are being killed in front of their University, and yet can not tell their so called friends in government to take security of lives serious.
Pastor Tunde March on

@Alxmyr, Truth is Real Christianity makes you like Zombie as you have coined; I wish i were more like Christ that did not defend his right before Pilate whom He Created, Modern Christianity is a departure from True Christianity 1 Corinthian 4;10 “We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.”

oldtime:

@Alxmyr, Truth is Real Christianity makes you like Zombie as you have coined; I wish i were more like Christ that did not defend his right before Pilate whom He Created, Modern Christianity is a departure from True Christianity 1 Corinthian 4;10 “We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.”

How do we change the country then ?

We should all be zombie, i guess? 

God help you with all this philosophies ooooooo but I know one day u will wake up     

You cannot change this world, Only Jesus can change the heart of men, If you reject Jesus and his ways as most comments does seems to suggest, NA LIKE DIS WE GO DEY DEY

oldtime:

You cannot change this world, Only Jesus can change the heart of men, If you reject Jesus and his ways as most comments does seems to suggest, NA LIKE DIS WE GO DEY DEY

You are even more deluded than I thought. no 1 disputes that Christ alone changes men's hearts. No 1 is trying to change the world, we are demanding the right things, things as stipulated by the constitution be done. If demanding constitutionally guranteed good governance is 'changing the world' to you, why don't you move to countries like Burma & North Korea whose governance model aligns with your world view. Nonsense!

oldtime:

@Alxmyr, Truth is Real Christianity makes you like Zombie as you have coined; I wish i were more like Christ that did not defend his right before Pilate whom He Created, Modern Christianity is a departure from True Christianity 1 Corinthian 4;10 “We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.”

Sorry to disappoint you oldtime but misinterpreting the above scriptures is delusion @ best.
Christ didn't speak back because he came to die for mankind's sins not show his kingdom superseded that of this age. Wasn't he who said he could call legions of angels to come to his aid but choose not to ?
Paul in the above scripture was speaking about the sufferings he went through in defense of the gospel unlike the false apostles the Corinthians were more enamored to. he wasn't speaking about politics here dude. Please keep your zombie Christianity to yourself and not infect us with it.

In Nigeria - there are Men of Gold and not Men of God. They are interested in your tithes just as the politicians are interested in your tax. Birds of feather will always flock together

I wouldn't have responded to this post,except I smell some erroneous personality issues and conflicts that can help us understand and find common denominators if there is any.

Oldtime!!!!!

Oldtime!!!!!

Oldtimeeeee!!!!!!

How many times I call you gini?

Who you be sef?

Abi you be marvix?

I dey suspect you seriously, Why are you in a haste to defend Yaradua? and defending Nigerian "funny" pastors etc?

Are you a Nigerian pastor who receives "benefits"from those in power?Dem they give you contract?

Talk true oooo!!!!God is looking at you oooo!!!!!, abi ?

Deep in your conscience;are you a Nigerian?

How many babies have you seen die of jaundice in Nigerian tertiary hospitals due to no power after the family has waited on God for about 9 years?-No electricity destroyed God's miracle in that family!

I saw the man- the father cried like a small baby, I know people who died like ordinary chickens on Nigerian roads due to bad roads and improper health facilities,

Why are you defending Yaradua?What kind of christian or pastor are you?(Since you seem to know so much scripture?)

how many years did you spend in the university due to strike? due to bad governance,

It's like you have been out of nigeria for a while, Or are you saying we should all keep quiet and "pray"when everything that is happening is contrary to God's will?

I have listened quietly to your debates, I will join JK Randle in asking you directly "Who is fooling who"?

Who is sponsoring you?Who are you really?

I'm at a loss at your confidence, candour and effontry at true christianity,

If you are a pastor, I fear for your congregation oooooo,If you are a governemnt official, no wonder the stress we are going through as a nation,If you're a husband,would you keep quiet if you lost your relatives to things that could have been avoided by good governance?(eg electricity etc)

In Bishop Oyedepo's words, God gave us brains so that we can give him rest, not to bother him with prayers for things we ought to be able to do for ourselves,

Who are you and What are you saying?Are you a Nigerian?Are you a human being?

Who are you?

I await your answer,

Oltime = marvix

He is an over-righteous self-seeking impostor

@ marvix and poster, I have followed this thread and read all this arguements for every one contributing to it.

Well, I'm sure we all want a better najia and that is the crux of the matter!

You all have a choice, either you sit and pray and do more sitting and complain, even when others who know better begin to act! Or, you pray and act,

Know that FAITH without WORKS is DEAD!

Guys, do well to read ur bible and know and especially your English dictionary dictionary to understand want protest means!

I believe that other pastors should have the courage to join Pastor Tunde Bakare in this campaign instead of telling their people it is well when it keeps going from bad to worse!

to all the men and women who are joining the Pastor in this campaign, I salute u all!

We must Save Nigeria for us, for our children and for our children's children, this is what the poster, marvix and their friends should be looking at! Not who is bearing the touch for the emancipation of the people.

God is using Pastor tunde Bakare to launch this campaign and I totally support him.

DO you know what Jesus did while on earth? Did you read the Bible at All, while on earth, jesus challenged the existing order, brought it down and started a new religion, Christainity, in case you dont know the jews lived by the Law he brought a new other of Living by Grace
__________________________

Aisha, Jesus did not start any religion. Christianity isnt even a word in the bible. Christian(s) however appear twice, I think. The first when non-disciples called disciples by the name, which then was supposed to be derisive. So when Peter mentioned it the second time, he said if anyone is called by name Chriatian and suffers or he's persecuted cos it, it should be cos he is a disciple.

It is today that to be called a Christian is in vogue, that's why it has become a religion. But the truth is that Jesus never started a religion. Please, get a concordance and look for the work KINGDOM and you will see the purpose of Jesus' advent.