akigbemaru:

Aloy.Emeka and Onlytruth.
Don’t get it twisted, if you look at the history or archive of pre-Nigeria era, you shall find out that no other tribe in Nigeria of today had fought more wars or as powerful as Oyo Empire.
Go and check British archives, when wars were fought with foot – which they called infantry soldiers; you will definitely give it to Yoruba.
When wars were fought with horses – which they called cavalry soldiers – In fact, this gave Yoruba warriors hegemony and commanding leads when it comes to war back then.
You go to National Theater in Iganmu or TBS in Race-course and you see horse statues, you might not know what they meant, but they are a commemoration to immortalize our lost cavalry soldiers.
It took all the world powers of then to defeat Oyo Empire. Portugal came through port novo, France digging from Seme, Germany from Calabar, British from Ibo land. They all came hard with one mission to collapse Oyo Empire.
It’s Ibos that are coward and Backstabbers.
If Yorubas never like Ibos, we would not help you codify your language
If Yorubas never like Ibos, we would not bring Christianity to your domain and build the first ever to be known in Ibos’ history
If Yorubas never like Ibos, we would not allow you to continuing mooching us.
But you people didn't have good advisers, when you left East and coming to invade West, it means you have climbed your trees more than leaves.
I have said it many times, if Ibos want Biafran country, you have Bakassi and kidnappers, let them bomb Niger and Benue bridge and continue to govern yourselves. But one warning though, Nigeria is 921,000 square kilometers, you only have 27,000 square kilometers to govern, which I called Ibo land, if you people take a step further that 27,000 square kilometers. Then, you are looking for trouble.

What do you by this?

Onlytruth:

On that point, let us agree to disagree. I know that being cunning is one of the greatest survival strategies of cowards. If you are not willing, or very reluctant to take risks, how do we know that we can count on you to take the risk of defending your fatherland? Bravery is all about taking risks. If you can't take risks, you are a coward. Simple.
Our biggest problem in Nigeria is that we like to complicate simple things. We all don't have to like one another to form a country, but when you are willing to sell me off to an invading enemy, I must not form a country with you. Defense is the most important foundation for setting up a country. Without that, you are only living on borrowed time.
At this point Eziachi, I must ask you: What is your best alternative to this dysfunctional country we call Nigeria?
I'm here to learn and teach.

My brother, you are the last person, I will expect to ask me about my alternatives to Nigeria, as I had always made my stance very clear and unambigious. This is my stance: I am not calling for the dissolution or disintegration of Nigeria, but I am calling for the freedom of anyone wishing to opt out of the present Nigerian experiment. Marriage should never be by force.
I don't want and will never support any calved out nation from Nigeria called South Nigeria as that will mean a miniature of present Nigeria from the back door. I will hate any nation with Igbo, Yoruba or Ijaw are in it, as a single entity.
I don't mind a new nation long with the likes of the Efiks and the Ibibios, as long as it is by their choice and exactly what they want. And they will join with an open eyes, negotiate their existence/future in that new nation.
So that, from day one everyone will know what he is bringing to the table and what he gets out of it.
In summary:
1. Biafra- (Igbos with possible Ibibio/Efik or alone)
2. Niger Delta- (Without the Ika Igbos)
3. Oduduwa
4. Arewa

Then we can form an economic co-operation or a union for the promotion of trade, commerce, agriculture, immigration and security.

Eziachi:

No, I am not missing the point, I am rather strenghtened by the result of the experiment of last 50 years that has resulted only in disasters. Yes Yoruba/Igbo can be partners, but being partners musn't translate into being fused to become one entity. Because there is European Union, doesn't mean that France will become part of German, taking orders from Berlin.
Or envisaging an English man going to the poll to elect a German as his president, that will rule from thousand of miles away. Never!!
Igbo will have the same relationship they had with Cameroon, Gabon with a possible Yoruba nation. Any dream of a possible one South Nigerian nation will never work. A non starter if I may say so.

Yes, you are now talking, so far you don't take more than your portion of land: (27,000km) . This will be a welcome development by me Akigbemaru.
That will ease the tension of IG Ogbono Onovo, he supposed to be governing 27,000 square kms; now you gave him a job of 921,000 square kilometers to do. I guess he would be happier and competent than this, if he could only govern ibo land only.

akigbemaru:

Aloy.Emeka and Onlytruth.
Don’t get it twisted, if you look at the history or archive of pre-Nigeria era, you shall find out that no other tribe in Nigeria of today had fought more wars or as powerful as Oyo Empire.
Go and check British archives, when wars were fought with foot – which they called infantry soldiers; you will definitely give it to Yoruba.
When wars were fought with horses – which they called cavalry soldiers – In fact, this gave Yoruba warriors hegemony and commanding leads when it comes to war back then.
You go to National Theater in Iganmu or TBS in Race-course and you see horse statues, you might not know what they meant, but they are a commemoration to immortalize our lost cavalry soldiers.
It took all the world powers of then to defeat Oyo Empire. Portugal came through port novo, France digging from Seme, Germany from Calabar, British from Ibo land. They all came hard with one mission to collapse Oyo Empire.
It’s Ibos that are coward and Backstabbers.
If Yorubas never like Ibos, we would not help you codify your language
If Yorubas never like Ibos, we would not bring Christianity to your domain and build the first ever to be known in Ibos’ history
If Yorubas never like Ibos, we would not allow you to continuing mooching us.
But you people didn't have good  advisers, when you left East and coming to invade West, it means you have climbed your trees more than leaves.
I have said it many times, if Ibos want Biafran country, you have Bakassi and kidnappers, let them bomb Niger and Benue bridge and continue to govern yourselves. But one warning though, Nigeria is 921,000 square kilometers, you only have 27,000 square kilometers to govern, which I called Ibo land, if you people take a step further that 27,000 square kilometers. Then, you are looking for trouble.

I think this particular thread is harshly too much or too big for you, when you analyzes all the point people has raised compared to your childish ranting input.
No body give a monkey what your 40th generation did 3000 years ago. What you are doing today is what matters.
Egypt once eslaved the Isrealise ancestors for 400 years, but today Israel can destroy Egypt in hours.
This particular issue is meant  for mentally grown up people. I am sorry. By the way, the word is "Igbo".

So that, from day one everyone will know what he is bringing to the table and what he gets out of it.
In summary:
1. Biafra- (Igbos with possible Ibibio/Efik or alone)
2. Niger Delta- (Without the Ika Igbos)
3. Oduduwa
4. Arewa

More third-world countries

Eziachi:

I think this particular thread is harshly too much or too big for you, when you analyzes all the point people has raised compared to your childish ranting input.
No body give a monkey what you 20th generation did 3000 years ago. What you are doing today is what matters.
Egypt once eslaved the Isrealise ancestors for 400 years, but today Israel can destroy Egypt in hours.
This particular issue is meant  for mentally grown up people. I am sorry. By the way, the word is "Igbo".

I think the point he was making was that, considering the antecedents of the Yoruba people, it is wrong to label them cowards considering they were a conquering people. I equally made this point in my first post. The Egyptian- Isreali analogy is much more dated than the Oyo Empire reign of the 14th to 18th century. Your point may be relevant in another 3000 years time.

SEFAGO:

More third-world countries

Maybe to you, but they can now choose to remain poor or work harder and maximise their resources in order to alleviate their suffering, and will no longer blame anyone ever again or someone deliberately holding you down because they can.

I now understand why Nigeria is in such a peculiar situation.
The Biafran war looks like an open wound/cancer/curse on this country.

No discussion can be completed without Yorubas, dogged by guilt and having lost their credibility at a certain time in Nigerias history turning it into an anti-igbo tirade.
The Igbos on the other hand have had an inferiority complex since the end of the war (having been deceived by Ojukwu) , hence they get easily irritated.
The middle belt see themselves as fools who have been used by the hausa/fulanis against their fellow Christian folk they have been paying the price ever since.
The Niger-Delta who abandoned their fellow eastern Nigeria folk when things got worse have all but lost their identity hence they need people from the  not to tell them about their origins(see Niger-Delta or South-south) no clear definition.
The winners end up being the highly inept uneducated hausa/fulanis who cannot believe their luck!

I think what we need in Nigeria is full reconciliation were everyone admits to their mistakes and this ghost of Biafra is laid to rest once and for all.
So that we can have meaningful discussions.
I think this biafra issue has lingered on that it now seems like a curse !

@ akigbemaru

I get am before no be money
I would ignore your ignorant and childish rant.

@Eziachi

I see your point about willing participants forming nations. That is really my point. You can't form a nation with those who would end up selling you when a stronger enemy shows up. You form a nation with those who will stand and fight by you in the day of evil.

I have deliberately avoided proposing an "Igbo only" nation because our enemies always accuse us of selfishness. Of course I know that an Igbo only nation will thrive to greatness, but I would leave the room open to genuine partnerships in forming a credible nation. I know that most of those against Biafra do so out of fear that a Nigeria without Igbos will be like an empty shell. So, the option of partnerships remains one of the best ways of demonstrating our fair intentions. I would partner with any tribe who say what they mean and mean what they say.

Currently Nigeria is not working because northerners are saying that we are one, but kill Igbos anytime they feel like it. That in my book is betrayal. The west did the same in the war and has not repented from it.

adigun101:

I now understand why Nigeria is in such a peculiar situation.
The Biafran war looks like an open wound/cancer/curse on this country.

No discussion can be completed without Yorubas, dogged by guilt and having lost their credibility at a certain time in Nigerias history turning it into an anti-igbo tirade.
The Igbos on the other hand have had an inferiority complex since the end of the war (having been deceived by Ojukwu) , hence they get easily irritated.
The middle belt see themselves as fools who have been used by the hausa/fulanis against their fellow Christian folk they have been paying the price ever since.
The Niger-Delta who abandoned their fellow eastern Nigeria folk when things got worse have all but lost their identity hence they need people from the  not to tell them about their origins(see Niger-Delta or South-south) no clear definition.
The winners end up being the highly inept uneducated hausa/fulanis who cannot believe their luck!

I think what we need in Nigeria is full reconciliation were everyone admits to their mistakes and this ghost of Biafra is laid to rest once and for all.
So that we can have meaningful discussions.
I think this biafra issue has lingered on that it now seems like a curse !

Thanks Adigun.

You are one of the few voices of reason from your part of Nigeria. Appreciated.
We don't feel inferior though. We feel hurt and betrayed.

adigun101:

I now understand why Nigeria is in such a peculiar situation.
The Biafran war looks like an open wound/cancer/curse on this country.

No discussion can be completed without Yorubas, dogged by guilt and having lost their credibility at a certain time in Nigerias history turning it into an anti-igbo tirade.
The Igbos on the other hand have had an inferiority complex since the end of the war (having been deceived by Ojukwu) , hence they get easily irritated.
The middle belt see themselves as fools who have been used by the hausa/fulanis against their fellow Christian folk they have been paying the price ever since.
The Niger-Delta who abandoned their fellow eastern Nigeria folk when things got worse have all but lost their identity hence they need people from the  not to tell them about their origins(see Niger-Delta or South-south) no clear definition.
The winners end up being the highly inept uneducated hausa/fulanis who cannot believe their luck!

I think what we need in Nigeria is full reconciliation were everyone admits to their mistakes and this ghost of Biafra is laid to rest once and for all.
So that we can have meaningful discussions.
I think this biafra issue has lingered on that it now seems like a curse !

Oboy, you just hit the nail on the head. But, I will never for once accept with you that Yorubas have lost credibility.
I will post the speech promulgated by sage Awolowo, this was openly broadcasted live and direct; where he advised both parties that were waging war at each other.

am so proud to be an igbo man.

The replies on this website time and time again show why Nigeria is still like this. Like my favorite atheist will say, Nigerians "suffer from two great sicknesses, the need to fasten group labels on people rather than see them as individuals and the urge to carry vendetta across generations".

akigbemaru:

Aloy.Emeka and Onlytruth.

If Yorubas never like Ibos, we would not help you codify your language
If Yorubas never like Ibos, we would not bring Christianity to your domain and build the first ever to be known in Ibos’ history
If Yorubas never like Ibos, we would not allow you to continuing mooching us.[/color]

You need mental help asap because your diatribe is becoming more juvenile by the minute.

Dictated but not read! too long.

@ whoever!

Yet the igbo hatred continues. It's pathetic; what is behind the massacre of over 30,000 igbos in the North before the Biafra war?. Is it also Igbo greed?. Your inability to read should be blamed here because your response shows you didn't understand the article.

Lets stop being too emotinal here and analise based on facts and objectivity. We had and still have those who lived through those gory days. The igbos gatherned so much momentum and became ever selfish and greedy. They were tops in the army and other endeavours, found in every nook and corners of the country.

When Nzeogwu and co struck, they called it a revolution,but the killings were more or less ethnical/regionallt bias. Now what happened after wards, he became the igbo hero. In the north, while the hausa's(and Nigeria) were in grief and mourning of Tafawa Balewa and co, the igbos in living in the north the guts and were so insensitive to be caryying  posters and wearing lapels of Nzeogwu as a hero. As if that was not enough they were displaying every were the photos of the ridulled and charred body of the late Sir Ahmadu Bello. That was dispicable and forbidden. If you were an huasa man then what would you do. fold your hands and watch the misery on your soil -  pls come on! This is what inspired the norther strong hold to power. The igbos called other nigerians fools, and  now that those other nigerians are wiser, they are crying foul.

Lets look for a way forward, no nody is ready for blood letting of that magnitude again. What is lacking is honesty, duty honor and love for country. Nigeria is our country, wether british manufactured or not, our fathers fought to have and keep it. If you think seperation is the solution then you got is wrong. Take a look at the west and the east and even the north you will see serious political, tribal rivalry and  animosity. Now how can this people better off?

I believe there were times when being a nigerian was a thing of pride. We can still bring back those times, We all know what to do.

Respect to Achibe. Love Nigeria, Love you all.

docheja:



Lets stop being too emotinal here and analise based on facts and objectivity. We had and still have those who lived through those gory days. The igbos gatherned so much momentum and became ever selfish and greedy. They were tops in the army and other endeavours, found in every nook and corners of the country.

When Nzeogwu and co struck, they called it a revolution,but the killings were more or less ethnical/regionallt bias. Now what happened after wards, he became the igbo hero. In the north, while the hausa's(and Nigeria) were in grief and mourning of Tafawa Balewa and co, the igbos in living in the north the guts and were so insensitive to be caryying  posters and wearing lapels of Nzeogwu as a hero. As if that was not enough they were displaying every were the photos of the ridulled and charred body of the late Sir Ahmadu Bello. That was dispicable and forbidden. If you were an huasa man then what would you do. fold your hands and watch the misery on your soil -  pls come on! This is what inspired the norther strong hold to power. The igbos called other nigerians fools, and  now that those other nigerians are wiser, they are crying foul.

Lets look for a way forward, no nody is ready for blood letting of that magnitude again. What is lacking is honesty, duty honor and love for country. Nigeria is our country, wether british manufactured or not, our fathers fought to have and keep it. If you think seperation is the solution then you got is wrong. Take a look at the west and the east and even the north you will see serious political, tribal rivalry and  animosity. Now how can this people better off?

I believe there were times when being a nigerian was a thing of pride. We can still bring back those times, We all know what to do.

Respect to Achibe. Love Nigeria, Love you all.

Close your dirty mouth you slowpoke. Igbos are never known for hero worship up till this day because they are the only ethnic group in Nigeria that is very republican.  Even if there were the likes of MekusAljazeera then, does that justify the massacre of innocent women and children?. Assuming your story is true, it means that many of these Yorubas who rejoice at what Awolowo did to Igbos on nairaland  have incurred the wrath of the Igbos and an immediate massacre of Yorubas living in Igboland should be justified?.  Also, Ijaws should start massacring Yorubas living in their land for what Obasanjo did at Odi. You are a closet terrorist.

You see why we shall hardly see light in Nigeria. Ethnic hatred truncates common sense and human emotions. I am sure that if earthquake happens in Igboland today and many internationals are bringing aids, your likes will be rejoicing and looking for any possible way to justify the misfortune.

How can a normal human being attempt to justify genocide simply because of tribal hatred?. You are not normal and the sooner we Nigerians weed out the Mutallabs like you  among us, the better.

Since you believe yourself and the history you read, listen to the Al Jazeera  report on the recent Jos crisis and tell me how someone will describe it in 30 years time. The so called Alhajizeera carefully avoided the genesis of the problem just to make Christians look bad. Of course, Northerners will tell you that Igbos were jeering them and that's why they massacred  about 30k. What about the subsequent massacres of southerners in the North? Did Nzeogwu rise from the dead to plan more coup?.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2010/01/201012333947758520.html

Onlytruth:

Thanks Adigun.

You are one of the few voices of reason from your part of Nigeria. Appreciated.
We don't feel inferior though. We feel hurt and betrayed.

It is obvious that people only speak with reason when they agree with you. You want to task a group of people for the actions of one person. Whenever a Yoruba person disagrees with you on this forum, you immediately interpret it to be that they condone Awo's betrayal. You call all Yoruba people cowards because of events during the civil war. Yet you will not accept Igbo shortcomings during the war. You downplay the cowardice and betrayal of some Igbo leaders during the war giving irrelevant excuses. Why should any Yoruba person accept that Awo betrayed Biafra when you can not even accept Zik, Asika, Brig. Ekpo, Brig. Ikwue, Ukpabi Asika, Alfred Diete-spiff, Jacob Esuene etc betrayal of their people? Without realising it, you fuel the perception held of Igbo people that they always play the victim card while refusing to accept their own fault.

Just like I did on the other thread, I am going to leave you with an article written by an Igbo man who at least, accepts that Zik betrayed his people. Every time you talk about Awo's betrayal, I will post this. This incessant labelling of a people because of the actions of one man must stop. I apologise to anyone who has read this before but if I do nothing, soon, visitors of this forum would take OnlyTruth's posts as gospel.

Defection of Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe

The defection of Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe, to the Nigerian side, was one of the most demoralizing moments during the days of Biafra. I narrated in the book, Surviving In Biafra, how the news brought tears to my father's eyes, a man used to keeping his emotions under check. My father's reaction mirror's the feeling of most Biafrans to the news.

When the war started, the presence of heavy weights like Dr Azikiwe, M.I Okpara, Dr Akanu Ibiam, and others, provided a certain amount of moral satisfaction for Biafrans that the right thing had been done. But when Dr Azikiwe suddenly left Biafra for Nigeria, the last bastion of Biafra's locus standi was crushed to smithereens. Again, the dreaded word, "saboteur", came up, further fuelling the distrust that had taken a dangerous stranglehold on Biafra and Biafrans. As a little boy, what was etched in my mind was that Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe had joined the ranks of those that betrayed Biafra. I recall that when he came to Nnewi, in 1979, to campaign under the aegis of NPP, the defection was still on my mind. I was torn between shedding an impression that I developed during the war, as a little boy, and accepting that the Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe still had the interest of the Igbos at heart.

Dr Azikiwe has been quoted as saying that he went to Nigeria to help end the war because the suffering had gotten out of hand. Whether that was the motive and if he achieved his aim remains a subject of intense discussion till date. One is therefore interested in reading an exhaustive account, from Ojukwu, on what happened, his take on it and the probable effect, both salutary and deleterious to Biafra.

After reading this ,i had to take a deep breath and think ,has Nigeria changed from what Achebe saw then?Has she grown from her childish nature  after so long years of Independence?Don't we still have all the tribal and religious hatred like the one we have now in jos?As a writer Achebe saw our present day Nigeria even then,isn't it a shame we are still so backward?I still do believe the igbos are going to leave one day but when i cant say but its real soon,i believe in Nigeria but not this one that we have today,we don't have a nation rather a settlement of people sorry to call my nation this ,even with all the love i feel inside for her,she is a failure

adigun101:

I now understand why Nigeria is in such a peculiar situation.
The Biafran war looks like an open wound/cancer/curse on this country.

No discussion can be completed without Yorubas, dogged by guilt and having lost their credibility at a certain time in Nigerias history turning it into an anti-igbo tirade.
The Igbos on the other hand have had an inferiority complex since the end of the war (having been deceived by Ojukwu) , hence they get easily irritated.
The middle belt see themselves as fools who have been used by the hausa/fulanis against their fellow Christian folk they have been paying the price ever since.
The Niger-Delta who abandoned their fellow eastern Nigeria folk when things got worse have all but lost their identity hence they need people from the  not to tell them about their origins(see Niger-Delta or South-south) no clear definition.
The winners end up being the highly inept uneducated hausa/fulanis who cannot believe their luck!

I think what we need in Nigeria is full reconciliation were everyone admits to their mistakes and this ghost of Biafra is laid to rest once and for all.
So that we can have meaningful discussions.
I think this biafra issue has lingered on that it now seems like a curse !

What credibility are you talking about? Are you aware that people from the East, including prominent Igbo sons, fought against Biafra? The west wanted to stay out of that war because the west was just coming out of the crises that engulfed it in the early 60s. While Awo might have acted against Biafra, did several Yoruba sons not fight for Biafra? Was Soyinka not jailed? Were Ijebu farmers not killed for protesting against the war? If you are not informed, then get the knowledge. Stop perpetuating this myth of Yoruba guilt.

Did Awo not try to get both parties to avoid war? Did Awo or anyone in the west invite the Biafra Expeditionary Force? Was there an agreement between the west and Ojukwu? Afterall, when Awo met Ojukwu in May 67, did Ojukwu tell Awo that he was going to be sending forces to the west to assist the west in defending itself against incursions from the North? Why did Ojukwu have this erroneous impression that the West needed protection? Afterall, the West had not declared any stand at that point. Unfortunately, that incursion that stopped at Ore was a turning point because the West did not understand why Ojukwu was sending its forces to the West.

remimartin:

After reading this ,i had to take a deep breath and think ,has Nigeria changed from what Achebe saw then?Has she grown from her childish nature  after so long years of Independence?Don't we still have all the tribal and religious hatred like the one we have now in jos?[/b]As a writer Achebe saw our present day Nigeria even then,isn't it a shame we are still so backward?I still do believe the igbos are going to leave one day but when i cant say but its real soon,i believe in Nigeria but not this one that we have today,[b]we don't have a nation rather a settlement of people sorry to call my nation this ,even with all the love i feel inside for her,she is a failure

No, we have not moved an inch, our progress is usually in reverse. Majority of Nigerians are living in denial and are always ready to pounce on anyone who challenges the status quo. On very close observation, you will notice the people hell bent on  defending the reprehensible state of the "country" are usually the beneficiaries of Quota System and federal character who are apprehensive of losing their fraudulent status on a level playing field, beneficiaries of the plundering of the treasury and in some cases, people who have made their financial mark through the right channels but do not wish to see any ripple in their comfort zone.

Katsumoto:

What credibility are you talking about? Are you aware that people from the East, including prominent Igbo sons, fought against Biafra? The west wanted to stay out of that war because the west was just coming out of the crises that engulfed it in the early 60s. While Awo might have acted against Biafra, did several Yoruba sons not fight for Biafra? Was Soyinka not jailed? Were Ijebu farmers not killed for protesting against the war? If you are not informed, then get the knowledge. Stop perpetuating this myth of Yoruba guilt.

Did Awo not try to get both parties to avoid war? Did Awo or anyone in the west invite the Biafra Expeditionary Force? Was there an agreement between the west and Ojukwu? Afterall, when Awo met Ojukwu in May 67, did Ojukwu tell Awo that he was going to be sending forces to the west to assist the west in defending itself against incursions from the North? Why did Ojukwu have this erroneous impression that the West needed protection? Afterall, the West had not declared any stand at that point. Unfortunately, that incursion that stopped at Ore was a turning point because the West did not understand why Ojukwu was sending its forces to the West.

What you fail to understand is that the whole quagmire in 1966 started in the west. The west, politically was in a state of mini war due to incessant meddling by the central government and the coup was supposed to address that. That was even the excuse the coup plotters gave. The west was the only region in Nigeria who has very serious fundamental political problems and could not heal itself.

The military officers carried out a coup and the Igbo populace beared the brunt. It all ended up with Awo who was at the centre of the whole issues serving under the military Junta of Gowon. That is what I call loss of credibility to the Igbos and even the northerners.
Since then they never respected Awo or any Yoruba leader.
This even cost him in 1979 (he won the election but had credibility issues)
See Abiola June 12 1993.
The Yorubas as a major ethnic group would and should've played a better part at a minimum stayed completely out.
The war was more or less between the Eastern region and the North.
The onus was on the Yorubas to lead proceedings as at the time.
As soon as the Awo took sides with the nothern led government in turned into a tribal issue.
All non-igbos in the eastern region abandoned Ojukwus kinsmen.
The world and the international community saw the Igbos as a renegade ethnic group.
Ojukwu stupidly did not see this !

The Igbos on the other hand allowed Ojukwu, a 33  year old rascal to single handedly lead them to an ill conceived war, refusing all diplomatic and non-military options. A war based on his own sheer ego. A war he fought with no support no guns nothing!
The Igbos stupidly followed him even ignoring a high establisment of political personalities they had at the time (including Zik)

At the end of the day, the story of southern Nigeria reminds me of the story of Esau and Jacob.
Where the former sold his birth right over a plate of porridge.
Everyone in the south sold their esteemed position to the north at the expense of the Igbos not considering that they were at the time superior educationally, civil and others to the north.

That is why till date they feel they can always play all of us the way they want and get away with it.
Look at the whole yar'adua debacle (typical example)

I will always speak the truth as I always deem necessary.
I am no worshiper of people be it Zik, Ojukwu, Awo, Saruduna and co.
These individuals either by commission or omission made the mistakes that have crystallised into Nigeria problems today.

^^^
How come you're so smart

adigun101:

What you fail to understand is that the whole quagmire in 1966 started in the west. The west, politically was in a state of mini war due to incessant meddling by the central government and the coup was supposed to address that. That was even the excuse the coup plotters gave. The west was the only region in Nigeria who has very serious fundamental political problems and could not heal itself.

The military officers carried out a coup and the Igbo populace beared the brunt. It all ended up with Awo who was at the centre of the whole issues serving under the military Junta of Gowon. That is what I call loss of credibility to the Igbos and even the northerners.
Since then they never respected Awo or any Yoruba leader.
This even cost him in 1979 ([b]he won the election but had credibility issues)[/b]
See Abiola June 12 1993.
The Yorubas as a major ethnic group would and should've played a better part at a minimum stayed completely out.

The Igbos on the other hand allowed Ojukwu, a 33  year old rascal to single handedly lead them to an ill conceived war, refusing all diplomatic and non-military options. A war based on his own sheer ego. A war he fought with no support no guns nothing!
The Igbos stupidly followed him even ignoring a high establisment of political personalities they had at the time (including Zik)

At the end of the day, the story of southern Nigeria reminds me of the story of Esau and Jacob.
Where the former sold his birth right over a plate of porridge.
Everyone in the south sold their esteemed position to the north at the expense of the Igbos not considering that they were at the time superior educationally, civil and others to the north.

That is why till date they feel they can always play all of us the way they want and get away with it.
Look at the whole yar'adua debacle (typical example)

I will always speak the truth as I always deem necessary.
I am no worshiper of people be it Zik, Ojukwu, Awo, Saruduna and co.
These individuals either by commission or omission made the mistakes that have crystallised into Nigeria problems today.

I will not go into the coup here or else we will digress.
The Yorubas lost credibility but yet Abiola won the fairest and freest election in Nigerian history. Abiola defeated Tofa in the West, East, and the North. IBB did not hand over power for many reasons, some of them selfish. It had nothing to do with the events of the 60s. If the Yoruba's lack credibility so much, why did the rest of the country agree for the first president in 1999 to be Yoruba?

You are making a point but it is not about credibility. It is about trust and the lack of it. You will find it difficult to find credible politicians in Nigeria. Credibility had nothing to with Awo being denied the presidency in 1979; that was more about election rigging and the myth about population figures. I agree that Awo was ever unlikely to win an election in the East. I applaud your attempts at being neutral but there is no need to perform a balancing act. Just present facts as facts and your opinions as opinions.

Igbos did not stupidly follow Ojukwu into an egotistic war. Igbos were being killed in the thousands in different parts of the country especially in the north (much like what is happening now in jos but in this case nationally) and the federal government turned a blind eye and refused to acknowledge the fact or even address it.

The Igbos then decided to all run back to the east where they come from as a place of solace. There was no form of dialogue that ensued. Even the Aburi peace accord which Gowon agreed to in Aburi, was discarded.

People twist the history just to propagate their own agenda. Read books about Nigerian History and visit war museums and research before you come to conclusions. What our parents tell us will always be their own point of view.

I suggest you read Frederick Forsyth's Books (I think on of them is "The Making of an African Legend" but I am not sure) and other independent authors not just Nigerian writers as everyone will talk from his own point of view.

adigun101:

What you fail to understand is that the whole quagmire in 1966 started in the west. The west, politically was in a state of mini war due to incessant meddling by the central government and the coup was supposed to address that. That was even the excuse the coup plotters gave. The west was the only region in Nigeria who has very serious fundamental political problems and could not heal itself.

The military officers carried out a coup and the Igbo populace beared the brunt. It all ended up with Awo who was at the centre of the whole issues serving under the military Junta of Gowon. That is what I call loss of credibility to the Igbos and even the northerners.
Since then they never respected Awo or any Yoruba leader.
This even cost him in 1979 (he won the election but had credibility issues)
See Abiola June 12 1993.
The Yorubas as a major ethnic group would and should've played a better part at a minimum stayed completely out.
The war was more or less between the Eastern region and the North.
The onus was on the Yorubas to lead proceedings as at the time.
As soon as the Awo took sides with the nothern led government in turned into a tribal issue.
All non-igbos in the eastern region abandoned Ojukwus kinsmen.
The world and the international community saw the Igbos as a renegade ethnic group.
Ojukwu stupidly did not see this !

The Igbos on the other hand allowed Ojukwu, a 33  year old rascal to single handedly lead them to an ill conceived war, refusing all diplomatic and non-military options. A war based on his own sheer ego. A war he fought with no support no guns nothing!
The Igbos stupidly followed him even ignoring a high establisment of political personalities they had at the time (including Zik)

At the end of the day, the story of southern Nigeria reminds me of the story of Esau and Jacob.
Where the former sold his birth right over a plate of porridge.
Everyone in the south sold their esteemed position to the north at the expense of the Igbos not considering that they were at the time superior educationally, civil and others to the north.

That is why till date they feel they can always play all of us the way they want and get away with it.
Look at the whole yar'adua debacle (typical example)

I will always speak the truth as I always deem necessary.
I am no worshiper of people be it Zik, Ojukwu, Awo, Saruduna and co.
These individuals either by commission or omission made the mistakes that have crystallised into Nigeria problems today.

Ojukwu did not fight based on his ego. Being the son a very father with sizable assets in the west, Ojukwu stood to lose more than all if a war was fought. His people were being killed around the country and he had to act. With Gowon reneging on the accords in Aburi, and with his (Gowon) inability to offer protection to people of Eastern extraction, Ojukwu attempted to offer protection to his people. I only question his strategy but not his intentions. With Ojukwu promising hope and protection, what were you expecting the Igbo people to do? Their was nothing stupid about that.

Katsumoto:

I think the point he was making was that, considering the antecedents of the Yoruba people, it is wrong to label them cowards considering they were a conquering people. I equally made this point in my first post. The Egyptian- Isreali analogy is much more dated than the Oyo Empire reign of the 14th to 18th century. Your point may be relevant in another 3000 years time.

History of betrayal runs deep and has been well documented among Yoruba people, and I don't mean that other tribes, Igbos included have been without instances of betrayal. The Yoruba history of Illorin and the story Afonja, the war general sent by the Oyo king to defend the empire against marauding Fulanis. Afonja ended up teaming with the Fulanis to declare himself king of Illorin. Like all stories of sabotage and betrayal, the pepertrators usually loose whatever they gained at the end of the story, because Afonja's defendants lost the city to Fulanis even as we speak. After the well documented story of Brutus betraying Ceaser, Afonja's betrayal of his own king ranks close in popularity in classical studies. My point?
When people point accussing fingers of betrayal, mistrust, and sabotage against major Yoruba politicians, we need to understand that yes, there have been precedents.

Katsumoto:

I will not go into the coup here or else we will digress.
The Yorubas lost credibility but yet Abiola won the fairest and freest election in Nigerian history. Abiola defeated Tofa in the West, East, and the North. IBB did not hand over power for many reasons, some of them selfish. It had nothing to do with the events of the 60s. If the Yoruba's lack credibility so much, why did the rest of the country agree for the first president in 1999 to be Yoruba?

You are making a point but it is not about credibility. It is about trust and the lack of it. You will find it difficult to find credible politicians in Nigeria. Credibility had nothing to with Awo being denied the presidency in 1979; that was more about election rigging and the myth about population figures. I agree that Awo was ever unlikely to win an election in the East. I applaud your attempts at being neutral but there is no need to perform a balancing act. Just present facts as facts and your opinions as opinions.

Perceived credibility translates to trust. By credibility I actually meant trust. If you had read the context of my post you would've noticed that.
The north handed over to OBJ because he was a man they could trust but that doesn't translate to Yoruba trustworthyness.
OBJ was a man the Yoruba deemed a traitor. And was widely despised.
One technique to fight an adversary is to unite with his enemies.
Abiola on the other hand did not have credibility or trustworthiness issues with Nigerians/Nothern masses but with the Northern elite, the power cabals.
These are the people who I am directing my focus on.
Politics you remember, most especially in Nigeria is an elitist game.

kidonig:

Igbos did not stupidly follow Ojukwu into an egotistic war. Igbos were being killed in the thousands in different parts of the country especially in the north (much like what is happening now in jos but in this case nationally) and the federal government turned a blind eye and refused to acknowledge the fact or even address it.

The Igbos then decided to all run back to the east where they come from as a place of solace. There was no form of dialogue that ensued. Even the Aburi peace accord which Gowon agreed to in Aburi, was discarded.

People twist the history just to propagate their own agenda. Read books about Nigerian History and visit war museums and research before you come to conclusions. What our parents tell us will always be their own point of view.

I suggest you read Frederick Forsyth's Books (I think on of them is "The Making of an African Legend" but I am not sure) and other independent authors not just Nigerian writers as everyone will talk from his own point of view.

And then you send your people to battle without guns against a formidable adversary with international support

eagleu:

History of betrayal runs deep and has been well documented among Yoruba people, and [b]I don't mean that other tribes, Igbos included have been without instances of betrayal. [/b]The Yoruba history of Illorin and the story Afonja, the war general sent by the Oyo king to defend the empire against marauding Fulanis. Afonja ended up teaming with the Fulanis to declare himself king of Illorin. Like all stories of sabotage and betrayal, the pepertrators usually loose whatever they gained at the end of the story, because Afonja's defendants lost the city to Fulanis even as we speak. After the well documented story of Brutus betraying Ceaser, Afonja's betrayal of his own king ranks close in popularity in classical studies. My point?
When people point accussing fingers of betrayal, mistrust, and sabotage against major Yoruba politicians, we need to understand that yes, there have been precedents.

If you admit that no tribe has a monopoly on betrayal, what was the point of the Afonja anec-dote? You are admitting that all tribes have had instances of betrayal, yet you deemed it necessary to provide only one anec-dote of Yoruba betrayal to further perpetuate this allusion that only the Yoruba are guilty of betrayal.

Your point is irrevelant and redundant because it is self-contradicting. Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Katsumoto:

If you admit that no tribe has a monopoly on betrayal, what was the point of the Afonja anec-dote? You are admitting that all tribes have had instances of betrayal, yet you deemed it necessary to provide only one anec-dote of Yoruba betrayal to further perpetuate this allusion that only the Yoruba are guilty of betrayal.

Your point is irrevelant and redundant because it is self-contradicting. Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

His point seems to be that Yoruba's history runs deeper.

naijaking1:

His point seems to be that Yoruba's history runs deeper.

I am not following. Please explain