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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" (7019 Views)
Death At The Mercy Of Life - The Reality Of The Resurrection Of Jesus / A Question To The Atheists: Hardmirror,hahn,hopefullandlord Et Al / Hopefullandlord And Co, I Need You Guys Take On This Issue. (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by ambassagod: 11:17pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
Outside the frame of measurement, time doesn't exist. It becomes an ILLUSION. Period! |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by hopefulLandlord: 3:18am On Jul 19, 2017 |
pretty please, all those without saying anything ![]() If Vacuum has Gases, then its subject to time, you might call it an illusion but its no more of an illusion than that of time we have on earth, that we are measuring something doesn't mean it doesn't exist anywhere we can't!, you're making a categorical error here everything WITHIN our universe is subject to time but you apparently seem to disagree BTW, let me get you straight, when you say this uncaused cause is eternal and you agree there are particles that exist without a solar system, does this mean these "particles" are Eternal? chose your reply wisely 2 Likes |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by NairalandSARS: 6:04am On Jul 19, 2017 |
ambassagod: HAHAHAHA@bolded. What do you nutjobs mean by BEFORE TIME or OUTSIDE OF SPACE, cos I hear these shi.t a lot. |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by NairalandSARS: 6:11am On Jul 19, 2017 |
ambassagod: Hahahahaha. Choi! People dey o. Kingebukasblog, abeg come your brother. |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by ambassagod: 7:32am On Jul 19, 2017 |
NairalandSARS: I can't recall ever saying I am debating you. Just get away the debate. |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by ambassagod: 7:32am On Jul 19, 2017 |
NairalandSARS: Okay, bye and have a nice day |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by rejosom(m): 7:34am On Jul 19, 2017 |
My head de explode!!! What is this? A debate? Nawa oooo. |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by ambassagod: 8:08am On Jul 19, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord: I disagree. There would be entities in the vacuum, but "time" is not one of those entities. For an entity to be proved what it is, it must stand true to its quality. For time, to be an entity, it must stand it's true quality of being measured. So how do you measure the time in vacuum, independent of the solar system? I think that's a beautiful place to start, which I know you will avoid.
Sorry, I didn't call "Time" an illusion. If you think I did, you misunderstood it. And I guess you are already excited that you misunderstood it. I simply meant that if an "entity" is portrayed to be "time", and the entity doesn't stand true of the qualifies it needs to be qualified as time, e.g; measurablity, then that "entity" ceases to be time. In the case of the earth, a solid and empirical reason why "time" is not an illusion is that it can be empirically measured, while an entity that is portrayed to be "Time" is simply an illusion can not be measurable, because it is not really what it is. Then I repeat my question. So how do you measure the time in vacuum, independent of the solar system? It looks like you're pointing to a different entity. For an entity to be qualified "Time", it must be measurable. Otherwise, it is non-existent. And that's not an error, because when an entity "Time" stands to be measurable, it satisfies the reality that it exists. Otherwise, allowing me to say "TIME DOESN'T EXIST". You can point out where I disagreed to this. You said this before, I told you I agree with you. Why? Everything in our universe is subject to time, because the universe has a basis on which the "entity" portrayed as time can be measured- SOLAR SYSTEM! And by that, it stands true to be "time", take away the solar system, Time doesn't exist. If you think it exists, then measure it. If you can't measure, then it doesn't exist, the entity(not time) is simply becomes "Imaginary", illusion and the "time" doesn't exist as such entity.
It depends on what you mean to be "eternal", so tell me what you mean as the word "eternal" before I can answer that. I pointed this out up there but you avoided it. So, tell me what you mean by eternal in the context of your question. 1 Like |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by ambassagod: 8:09am On Jul 19, 2017 |
rejosom: Lol, have a nice day. Please, don't comment again, to avoid derailing the debate. |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by ambassagod: 8:33am On Jul 19, 2017 |
ambassagod:cc Hopefullandlord |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by hopefulLandlord: 11:00am On Jul 19, 2017 |
Ambassagod, it seems our disagreement so far boils to how one defines "Time" what do you mean by "Time"? can something happen outside time And space? if yes, can you give me examples of events that happen(ed) outside time? |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by ambassagod: 11:35am On Jul 19, 2017 |
You love dodging questions. And everyone is seeing that. Time IS a component quantity of various MEASUREMENTS THAT IS USED TO SEQUENCE EVENTS, to compare the duration of events or the intervals between them What is an EVENT as an "entity"? Event is not just an occurrence. No, it is not! It is an occurrence happening at a DETERMINABLE TIME(measurement of time!) and place, with or without the participation of human agents So, event as an entity can ONLY take place at a a determinable time. Otherwise, it is not at event. I said before that time must be dependent on solar system and not space, otherwise it can't be measurable which defies it to exist. Which means Time DOES NOT AND CANNOT STAND TO EXIST outside the solar system. can something happen outside time And space? No! Events cannot take place outside time and space because "EVENT" as entity cannot exist on it's own. It is dependent on time. 1 Like |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by ambassagod: 11:40am On Jul 19, 2017 |
Time must be inclusive, before an "entity" can be recognized as an "event" |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by Ever8054: 11:43am On Jul 19, 2017 |
OtemAtum:thank you..hope you are trough!!?... |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by Challspace(m): 11:46am On Jul 19, 2017 |
ambassagod You seem to have a lot of time in your hands, so I have a proposal. I didn't bother reading through the whole thread but what I can say is that hopefulLandlord isn't doing a good job debating you on this - no offence. So whenever you're free or you feel like it, I'd love to take up the challenge of disproving the existence of God, not that it matters anyway - seeing as scores of other sympathizers on Nairaland have been putting up irrefutable arguments almost on a daily basis. My quest is personal as I have noted through reading your posts that you're just a coward feeding off on triumph over intellectually weak minds. Besides its been a slow week at the office and what better way to pass time than to engage in a little God debate. I look forward to your reply. |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by ambassagod: 11:46am On Jul 19, 2017 |
Ever8054: Okay bye. Please, don't comment again. This is a serious debate going on. You can hang around if you have anything you gotta learn. Thank you. |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by ambassagod: 11:47am On Jul 19, 2017 |
Challspace:Okay. Don't reply again please. You can look for some other person to debate. Until I am ready, I can come for you. Thank you. |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by OtemAtum: 12:02pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
Ever8054: ![]() |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by Ever8054: 12:27pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord:he asked you a simple question "since Lawrence did not mean " nothing " in its literal sense, them what did he mean? and where did he get his own definition of "Nothing" from! and why if not to make a pointless point... the guy is really dragging your bowls around in a very calm and logical manner,..lol...sorry for interference ambassagod... 1 Like |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by Ever8054: 12:43pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
Martinez19:see this one,!!...if you are sure of what you believe, I would beg ambassagod to allow you join the debate as I watch your pity brain reset...by anassagod..if you think iam liying ask hopefulandlord"....lol..hopefulandlord is running in circles like a headless chicken.. 1 Like
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Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by Ever8054: 12:56pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord:..ambassagod,you see why I say atheist are a waste of space and oxygen with brains they don't use?..this is how this guy would be going T and F until he runs out to tell others how he worn a debate he only make comments but did not participate. ..me can never argue some one who recreate words with common meaning to unfounded meaning just to make a pointless point..I will never.. 1 Like |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by ambassagod: 1:02pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
Ever8054:Lol. So funny that he keeps on avoiding all my questions. Anyway, don't interfere again so the debate won't be derailed. |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by hopefulLandlord: 1:16pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
ambassagod:there's time everywhere there's space, Minkowski spacetime shows this like I said, that something can't be measured doesn't mean it doesn't exist you're defining a watered down version of time and asserting it, Science says Time began with the Big Bang and didn't exist before then and let me point out the solar system didn't start with the big bang what time science is referring to is totally different from the one you're implying here
Time certainly exist in a "vacuum", although the human forms of measuring it may quickly become meaningless as you look past our solar system. The movement of a galaxy that spins once every 220+ milion years is not easily explained or talked about in terms of seconds. The collapse initiating a supernova may only take (man) seconds to occur, but it could just as easily be measured in units of time called "blazos" that are each 2.345 seconds in duration. The man time scales are "arbitrarily" defined using our own familiar surroundings. Time itself will proceed with or without their benefit. so yes, time exists everywhere in the universe independent of any system, except you want to bring black holes into the discussion
actually you're the one that gave the first cause eternal property, so do define comprehensively what you mean by "eternal" |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by hopefulLandlord: 1:18pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
Ever8054: please, keep out cuz you stink up the room, have you read Krauss book or you just looked at the title and made supposition? I suspect the latter judging by this post of yours please stay away |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by hopefulLandlord: 1:20pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
been very busy today, so my reply may not be coming as fast as yesterday's |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by OtemAtum: 1:23pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
The 'nothing' of today becomes 'something' in the future or by the use of microscope. For example, you may say thereis nothing in a bowl, but another person may say there are actually something. There are bacteria, viruses, etc. So I understand what hopefullandlord is saying that there could be different definition of 'nothing'. Every 'nothing' can become something as soon as they are discovered to be something. But it doesn't make those who initially thought of them as nothing liars. That's why science give space for modification. I'm observing. ![]() |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by Ever8054: 1:45pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord:you talk as if you are on a serious debate..but I tell you ! you are just like we who are following.just point out on single question you have answered from the start of this trend..?. ..I won't call it a debate hence ambassagod is the only one trowing question but you the sounds...has been dodging the question like kilode".. go and face ambassagod,I did not call you for a debate, don't use me as escape route.. lol..I should stay out" as if Iam responsible for his dead and empty brain...!!! 1 Like |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by hopefulLandlord: 1:47pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
Ever8054: okay |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by ambassagod: 2:18pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord:This is critically false, until proven otherwise. So the burden of you is on you to prove to me HOW TIME IS DETERMINED IN SPACE. So to be straight enough. I will ask you again, which you will still avoid and I am okay with that ![]() ![]() If time exists everywhere there is space, then how is time determined in space? I am very sure you aren't referring to the entity "time" here. You asked me for a definition of time, I gave you just that. While hinting that it must be measurable. Any entity that is portrayed to be "time" but cannot be determined, not "TIME", because time IS ALWAYS measurable where it exits. If it exits in space, how is time determined in space? (you will still avoid this question) This is simply your opinion, and has no logical sense whatsoever! I repeat: If it exits in space, how is time determined in space? (you will still avoid this question)
I don't know if you saw this from point. Any mention of big bang so far? Anyway, if you are simply implying that, time has a beginning, then I agree with that completely!! I wonder which of my comments you are trying to refer this to. You are simply INTRODUCING a point that has never been mentioned here so far. Did I ever mention big bang here? Point it out please.
That's an entirely false statement. Scientific time is one(an entity) that can be QUANTIFIED AND MEASURED. So try again! Then if your claim is scientific, then I DARE YOU to answer the below single question you keep avoiding. If time exits in space, how is time determined in space? (you will still avoid this question)
If time CERTAINLY exits in space, how is time determined in space? (you will still avoid this question) Unfounded excuse! Try again. We can measure an entity, "time" because it is empirically existing, in relation to the solar system. The reason why the entity "time" would be meaningless to be measured outside the solar system is because it is not there. You think it is there, but it is not. It doesn't exist. In such a condition, the entity becomes imaginary, unreal and inexistent. And a scientific time is not imaginary, it REAL, that's why it can be MEASURED, CALCULATED AND DETERMINED. I wonder if I wrote something about this on my answers. So I am sure you aren't referring to this argument. Because, on its own it is meaningless to the arguments. Follow MY point, and refute MY points. Not the other way. This is completely OFF-POINT with the points I have raised so far. You have to go back to actually get what I wrote and not referring to an imaginary point that exits nowhere in this debate so far. Yes, I agree. Because solar system is inclusive. That's why can be able to measure, calculate and determine that entity "time". Otherwise "time doesn't exist". False! It becomes an imaginary entity that can not be calculated, determined or quantified. And as such, doesn't stand the qualities to be referred as time. Otherwise, you have to determine it. And that points you to the same question above. If it exits in space, how is time determined in space? (you will still avoid this question) I have nothing to do with this. Trust me, I am good at this. I haven't mentioned black hole, so bring bring them yourself if it has anything to do with the scientific fact that "Time must be measurable and calculated". If it has no connection with my points, the trust me I am gonna let it stay on you and never argue about it as it is out of the points raised so far.
I will put forward, a resounding comprehensive meaning of the word "eternal" in my context, as it relates to God. |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by ambassagod: 2:19pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord:Okay, same with me though. |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by Ever8054: 2:22pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
OtemAtum:..that ones sees nothing in a bowl and another letter sees whatever in it do not give "NOTHING" a different definition....here is the balance... ..(A)>sees "nothing "=common definition of nothing. ..(B)>sees "something"=common definition of something.. Note÷.eventuality,does not change meaning of word but can only change the word with a meaning that best describe the new event. so if Lawrence says" Nothing " to his audience the meaning of the word is established. ..in a case,he actually means "SOMETHING else" he will definitely not use the already established word"NOTHING " in its original meaning to negotiate the "THING" on his mind. .that is where the event changes and requires a new word with a meaning suitable to the change. Lawrence,. says "NOTHING" but means something else=confusion in its original meaning nothing else.. 1 Like |
Re: Second Debate: Strictly Between Hopefullandlord And I On The "Reality Of God" by ambassagod: 2:32pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
OtemAtum: MR. man, can you do me a favour by "JUMPING OUT" of this debate. So much irrationality!! And you aren't ashamed of that! Good Night! You are not needed here. Hint for followers: Nothing means NOT A SINGLE THING. 1 Like |
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