Posted by: mrpataki
Insert Quote
I will leave Shahan to address some of the issues you have raised here. As I wont want to be seen as attacking your posts here

You must no go, you have to reply my last post before going.



@mukina,

Pls get back to the topic and ignore mischief makers

@ blabs787,
HAHA, Alas it would have been better for you to state your questions in Yoruba, I can see that you are more inclined towards that line.

As to your questions, you want to know how we worship God, and I gave you John 4:24. As well worship God involves putting your whole being into it.

Remember how King David danced before God, worshipping Him with the whole of Hos might not in words alone but with his deeds.
If you need a comprehensive study on how to worship God, I will refer you to the book of Psalms.

But most essential, Worship God is an individual-personal thing. Not a church thing. I just blessed the name of God now!

Do you know you muslims now use musical instrument for their congregational meetings, do you know you now do praise and Worship too?
Tell me where is all that in the quran. Did Muhammad tell you to do all that?
Tell me why in your weddings now, the ladies now wear bridal gown? Who handed down that instruction? Tell me,  blast 787, where did you get all that from?

The five daily prayers consist of

1,Fard: obligatory prayer
 
2,Sunnah: Prophet's tradition
 
3,Wajib: obligatory prayer (Denying a Fard makes one a non-Muslim but denying a Wajib makes one a sinner. One must make up any missed Fard or Wajib prayers.)

4.Nafl: voluntary prayer


In addition to the above, the terms Fard, Wajib, Sunnah, and Nafl are also applied to conditions or actions within salat. If one misses any Fard part of salat, the salat will be invalid. That omission cannot be compensated by making Sajda Sahv. If a Wajib is missed unintentionally, one can make Sajda Sahv to make up for it.


Fard Parts before the Salat:


The sunnah are again divided into Sunnah Muakkadah and Sunnah Ghair Muakkadah. Sunnah Muakkadah means an act that Prophet Muhammad, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, always used to do. These rakats must be offered. (However if missed, there is no makeup or qada for it). Sunnah Ghair Muakkadah are sunnahs that Prophet Muhammad, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, used to leave sometimes without any reason. These are not obligatory.


Fajr:

2 Sunnah Muakkadah
2 Fard


Zuhr:

4 Sunnah Muakkadah
4 Fard
2 Sunnah Muakkadah
2 Nafl

Asr:

4 Sunnah Ghair Muakkadah
4 Fard

Maghrib:

3 Fard
2 Sunnah Muakkadah
2 Nafl

Isha:

4 Sunnah Ghair Muakkadah
4 Fard
2 Sunnah Muakkadah
2 Nafl
3 Witr
2 Nafl

In addition to the alsoIn addition to the above, the terms Fard, Wajib, Sunnah, and Nafl are also applied to conditions or actions within salat. If one misses any Fard part of salat, the salat will be invalid. That omission cannot be compensated by making Sajda Sahv. If a Wajib is missed unintentionally, one can make Sajda Sahv to make up for it.

@ mukina,
Perhaps let me ask you this question.

Lets say am an Alfa, and I am going to conduct the afternoon prayer session, and two minutes before getting to the prayer ground, I get pressed to urinate, and by urgency of my pee, I split part of it on my body, or perhaps I release out my gas from my bowels, Can I still go ahead and lead the congreagation to prayer, since it is evident I am now unclean?

If I relate your inputs to how your women are treated just because of their menses.

@mukina,

Thanks for the response. Like I said, continue with the thread and leave this my ignorant friend and myself alone. I will fix him up.

@pataki,

You have just shown that you are a real ignoramus.

You are equating praising to worshipping.

You decided to cage yourself.

I wanted to be nailing you gradually but you yourself voluntarily kicked yourself in the ass.

So you dont know that there is a difference between "praising" and "worshipping"

It will be better for you to keep your mouth shut when you dont have anything reasonable to offer rather than the continuous nailing.

Have you seen muslims using musical instrument when worshipping God?

Also you need to ask yourself what you meant by muslim using musical instrument. Are you referring to when we are supplicating? Do you see us using any?

Remember how King David danced before God, worshipping Him with the whole of Hos might not in words alone but with his deeds.
If you need a comprehensive study on how to worship God, I will refer you to the book of Psalms.

Never mind, just quote a verse from the above where 'singing' is used for worshipping God.

What you will see in the verse you are trying to give me is 'praising' and not worshipping.

You should know the difference between the two now.

Your dancing, singing is being counted as 'praising' but if you want to worship God, you have to maintain 100% silence and not dancing high life, juju, fuji, hip hop afro whatever under the pretext of worshipping God.

Give me the verse from the Psalm that says you should use singing and dancing to worship God.

ti o ba le jo, o ti je olorun ni gbese ti o ba le jo.
I will praise you o my saviour, I will praise you for ever more.


Funny being.

Posted by: mrpataki
Insert Quote
@ mukina,
Perhaps let me ask you this question.

Lets say am an Alfa, and I am going to conduct the afternoon prayer session, and two minutes before getting to the prayer ground, I get pressed to urinate, and by urgency of my pee, I split part of it on my body, or perhaps I release out my gas from my bowels, Can I still go ahead and lead the congreagation to prayer, since it is evident I am now unclean?

Why are asking stupid question this man?

Will you prefer prayer made in an unclean state to that of clean state. Try to be reasonable now.

If I relate your inputs to how your women are treated just because of their menses.

Quran 2v222: They ask you concerning menstruation, say "that it is (harmful 5thing for a husband to have sexual intercourse with his wife while she is havng her menses). Therefore keep away from women during menses and go not unto them till they are purified. And when they have purified themselves, then go in unto them as Allah has ordained for you. Truly, Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves.

Leviticus 18v19: Do not have intercourse with a woman during her monthly period (menstruation) because she is ritually unclean.

So dont come here again with your stupid questions.

Please give me the verse that says you should use singing and dancing as means of worshipping God.

@mukina2,

mukina2:

mensturation has everything to do with a woman when it concerns masjids .
a mesturating girl/woman does not enter a masjid .does not pray until its over and she has taken a complete bath .
you see its just that some extremist makes it all sound bad but even sharia law permits that a man and women can pray together

Two things here: (a) By intimating that some extremists make it all sound bad, are you assuming that those in authority who do not permit female clerics to preach and lead prayers are extremists in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, and Lebanon like in Pakistan and Afghanistan? (b) By intimating that the Sharia law permits both sexes to pray together, are you thereby denegrading those in the afore-mentioned countries with established sharia laws who do not so permit them? What is the basis of your persuasion - the opinions you learned from others, or the established fact in the Qur'an?

mukina2:

all those countries you mentioned are sharia governed and are full of extremists .

Now that is a very queer statement to make, especially coming from you as an aspiring morchidat. Which exactly confirms the point people have been enquiring from you guys. If it applies that a country being sharia-governed makes it "full of extremists", then all the more nobody wants sharia for the simple reason that we are all fighting extremists! Then I take it that all those countries mentioned earlier are extremists breeding grounds - because governed by Sharia Laws (according to you)!

mukina2:

women are allowed to participate in religious activies .like for example during ramamdan .before the breakinf of fast .there's this haja maimouna that recites the Holy Quran  at the central mosque whichd is aired live on tv .she also preaches in the mosque

This does not pass in the majority of cases. Besides, she would never take the place of a leader in prayers (an imam) - which is what is exclusively reserved for Muslim men. So, you hint earlier that women are permitted to participate in all activities in the mosques is simply a joke.

mukina2:

In morrocco women are allowed to preach .yemen too
very soon other countries will emulate that .saudi  and others will try that too we shall see .

You will note that the case of the morchidats (female religious guides) in Morocco is simply a political issue than it is an Islamic tenet from the Qur'an. The authorities in Morocco permit such cases of morchidats in order to promote moderate Islam in the face of Islamic extremism. That is why you will not find the same case operative in Saudi Arabia, Iran or Iraq.

mukina2:

as for the countries you listed because of  extremists .women are now being given  a chance in islam .

Please mukina2, for once try and be realistic. Those countries listed do not have a case of women being "given a chance!" That is why I asked you about them.

mukina2:

before youfgo there i am not living in sharia and have never lived in a sharia governed country .but i know that sharia does not place a ban on women its the extremists that do .to them women are just secondary people .waiting in the back
Islam is changing .

Again, I beg you to come back and strike off that last line - do not let other Muslims read that joke that "Islam is changing" and then come rushing with accusations that extremists are doing a bad job. As far as I am aware, no true Muslim ever says that "Islam is changing." Probably, it is because you do not live in a Sharia-governed state that you are saying these things. You cannot blame sharia for the existence of extremists, and then come back praising the same sharia!

mukina2:

anyways we are going off-topic here . .i dnt want the vultures to come here . .
because they will turn this whole thread into something else . .

Aight. I'll respectfully leave you to carry on. I must commend you for offering this opportunity to promote dialogue and exchange among Muslims; and please do excuse my visiting this thread with queries to balance the misconceptions.

Tara!

Will you prefer prayer made in an unclean state to that of clean state. Try to be reasonable now

Please define what is an Unclean state from the Quran?

Leviticus 18v19: Do not have intercourse with a woman during her monthly period (menstruation) because she is ritually unclean.
So don't come here again with your stupid questions.

Now the same Leviticus 18:19 -Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her unclothedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.

Blabs787, which version of the bible did you bring out that scripture. You are a great liar and a deciever for that matter.

Yet I still want you to define what uncleanliness is?

@pataki,

You have just shown that you are a real ignoramus.

You are equating praising to worshipping.

You decided to cage yourself.

I wanted to be nailing you gradually but you yourself voluntarily kicked yourself in the ass.

So you don't know that there is a difference between "praising" and "worshipping"

It will be better for you to keep your mouth shut when you don't have anything reasonable to offer rather than the continuous nailing.

Have you seen muslims using musical instrument when worshipping God?
Also you need to ask yourself what you meant by muslim using musical instrument. Are you referring to when we are supplicating? Do you see us using any?

Pray tell me blabs787, what is the difference between praising God and Worshipping God?

Yes I have seen Muslims not only in their meetings but as well on TV? Do you have a TV at home?

Never mind, just quote a verse from the above where 'singing' is used for worshipping God.

Ps 9:11  Sing praises to the LORD, which dwelleth in Zion: declare among the people his doings.
Ps 13:6 I will sing unto the LORD, because he hath dealt bountifully with me.

Ps 18:49 Therefore will I give thanks unto thee, O LORD, among the heathen, and sing praises unto thy name.

Ps 21:13 Be thou exalted, LORD, in thine own strength: so will we sing and praise thy power.

Ps 27:6 And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD.

Ps 30:4 Sing unto the LORD, O ye saints of his, and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness.

Ps 30:12 To the end that my glory may sing praise to thee, and not be silent. O LORD my God, I will give thanks unto thee for ever.

Ps 33:2 Praise the LORD with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings.Ps 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.

Ps 47:6 Sing praises to God, sing praises: sing praises unto our King, sing praises.

Just to mention a few.

Give me the verse from the Psalm that says you should use singing and dancing to worship God.

Ps 149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

Ps 150:4  Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

Do you still want more? Digest that for now.

@mrpataki,

mrpataki:

Now the same Leviticus 18:19 -Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her unclothedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.

Blabs787, which version of the bible did you bring out that scripture.

This is what babs787 quoted:

babs787:

Leviticus 18v19: Do not have intercourse with a woman during her monthly period (menstruation) because she is ritually unclean.

Actually, he quoted from the Good News Bible version (GNB) (the word 'menstruation' is his own, but it applies in just the same sense).

kill them all(infidels) kill kill detonate bombs destroy them till they turn from their evil ways and embrace islam which is the true path . Allah hates all the infidels so kill them all till they convert to islam the angel gabriel will lead you in the war u wage against them. bastard infidels enemies of Allah. spill their blood and never allow them to oppress you no matter what. kill kill kill them all detonate bombs and grenades all over the place.spread islam as u wage your war against them for Allah hates all the infidels

Two things here: (a) By intimating that some extremists make it all sound bad, are you assuming that those in authority who do not permit female clerics to preach and lead prayers are extremists in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, and Lebanon like in Pakistan and Afghanistan?

to them women in Islam shouldnt be seen or heard .not necessarily all shaitan you saw me type out some .

Now that is a very queer statement to make, especially coming from you as an morchidat. Which exactly confirms the point people have been enquiring from you guys. If it applies that a country being sharia-governed makes it "full of extremists", then all the more nobody wants sharia for the simple reason that we are all fighting extremists! Then I take it that all those countries mentioned earlier are extremists breeding grounds - because governed by Sharia Laws (according to you)!

i wish i could really reply this statement but i can't . _{and i hope you dnt ask why}all i can say is that most people use sharia as a front .extremist are all over .even in relatively small and peaceful countries _{enough now}

This does not pass in the majority of cases. Besides, she would never take the place of a leader in prayers (an imam) - which is what is exclusively reserved for Muslim men. So, you hint earlier that women are permitted to participate in all activities in the mosques is simply a joke.

shaitan i didnt say all . i said women do participate in activities in the mosque .

The Muslim woman is accorded full spiritual and intellectual equality with man, and is encouraged to practice her religion and develop her intellectual faculties throughout her life. In her relations with men both are to observe modesty of behavior and dress and a strict code of morality which discourages unnecessary mixing of the sexes.


Nafisa a descendant of 'Ali who was such a great authority on hadith that Imam al-Shafi'I sat in her circle in al-Fustat when he was at the height of this fame; and Shaikha Shuhda who lectured publicly in one of the principal mosques of Baghdad to large audiences on literature, rhetoric and poetry, and was one of the foremost scholars of Islam.

There is therefore every encouragement for a Muslim woman to pursue studies in any field for her intellectual benefit and to make use of her academic or professional training for the good of the community, subject to certain moral precepts which will be dealt with later in this paper.

Again, I beg you to come back and strike off that last line - do not let other Muslims read that joke that "Islam is changing" and then come rushing with accusations that extremists are doing a bad job. As far as I am aware, no true Muslim ever says that "Islam is changing." Probably, it is because you do not live in a Sharia-governed state that you are saying these things. You cannot blame sharia for the existence of extremists, and then come back praising the same sharia!

madam .islam in indeed changing .i repeat  and also one of the most famous mystics in Islam, Rabi'a al 'Adawiyya, was a woman.

its just that the extremist try to make it hard for us . .they are all over madam

i hope you will be around when the role of women in Islam will be discussed

@mukina2,

You just can't help yourself referring to me as "shaitan", abi? Islam really is a sweet religion.

mukina2:

to them women in Islam shouldnt be seen or heard .not necessarily all shaitan you saw me type out some

That's why I asked for the basis of your persuasion otherwise - is it a mere opinion you were expressing because you feel Islam as a "changing" religion?

mukina2:

i wish i could really reply this statement but i can't . _{and i hope you dnt ask why}all i can say is that most people use sharia as a front .extremist are all over .even in relatively small and peaceful countries _{enough now}

If as you now admit, "extremists are all over", then the world must be in trouble! And that is why we keep asking you and your colleagues three sets of small questions:

                 #why these extremists exist;
                 #what is responsible for breeding these extremists; and
                 #where is the PEACE that these extremist religion always preaches?

mukina2:

shaitan i didnt say all . i said women do participate in activities in the mosque

Did you miss what I said earlier? "This does not pass in the majority of cases" - does that sound like "all" to you?

mukina2:

The Muslim woman is accorded full spiritual and intellectual equality with man, and is encouraged to practice her religion and develop her intellectual faculties throughout her life. In her relations with men both are to observe modesty of behavior and dress and a strict code of morality which discourages unnecessary mixing of the sexes.

Open your eyes to reality and not replay what you've been spoon-fed by the oustass/imam/mullah. For now, I'll save you the headache of going through the Qur'an and Hadiths for this fictitious "full spiritual and intellectual equality" between the sexes in Islam.

mukina2:

Nafisa a descendant of 'Ali who was such a great authority on hadith that Imam al-Shafi'I sat in her circle in al-Fustat when he was at the height of this fame; and Shaikha Shuhda who lectured publicly in one of the principal mosques of Baghdad to large audiences on literature, rhetoric and poetry, and was one of the foremost scholars of Islam.

The same great authorities on the Hadith that Muslims disgaree as to which is authentic and which is misquoted?

mukina2:

There is therefore every encouragement for a Muslim woman to pursue studies in any field for her intellectual benefit and to make use of her academic or professional training for the good of the community, subject to certain moral precepts which will be dealt with later in this paper.

There is always a catch somewhere ~ "subject to certain" conditions. It is precisely at this point that there exists a gulf between what is theory and what is reality. High-sounding verbiage does not often translate into reality in the Islamic world; and this is precisely why observers are watching the drama with keen interest in the countries listed earlier.

mukina2:

madam .islam in indeed changing .i repeat  and also one of the most famous mystics in Islam, Rabi'a al 'Adawiyya, was a woman.

Now, that is quaint. You may feel that Islam is "changing"; but that leaves so many more questions unanswered. Isn't it said that Allah has perfected the religion of Islam? So, where does the "change" come in - from what to what??

And that subject many Muslims are not conveniently able to mention - the mystical part of Islam! That would b subject for another thread.

mukina2:

its just that the extremist try to make it hard for us . .they are all over madam

Okay, I'll not be tedious to you on that.

mukina2:

i hope you will be around when the role of women in Islam will be discussed

Look forward to it. And thanks again.

Now, get on with the original exercise and don't take any notice of us for the meantime. Muslims are waiting for some more enjoyable input from you. Cheers.

Madam shaitan

yeah Islam is sweet . you couldt bear its sweetness which is why you ran away

madam intellectual till then no mind olodos o we dey everywhere

@shahan,

When the time comes, we will compare the right of muslim women to that of christian women

@mrpataki,


Quote from: mrpataki on Yesterday at 08:18:56 PM
Now the same Leviticus 18:19 -Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her unclothedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.

Blabs787, which version of the bible did you bring out that scripture.

It is very glaring that you knew nothing

Posted by: mrpataki  
Quote
Pray tell me blabs787, what is the difference between praising God and Worshipping God?

Yet, you still showed your ignorance

What you do in christianity is singing and singing is something that has to do with musical instrument and you cant worship with that. Dont worry, go to the end of my post, you will see the difference between praising God and worshipping God.

Posted by: mrpataki  
Quote

Yes I have seen Muslims not only in their meetings but as well on TV? Do you have a TV at home?

What is happening to you? This is not the mrpataki I used to know. Hope you are not eating too much of [b]'ori eja' - Head of fish.

I dont have a TV but Television Set.

Try to differentiate between Meetings (maybe Adkhar) and prayers.

Another ignorant approach again. When muslims pray in any of their five times daily prayer, do you see them singing and dancing ([i[b]]kulu bo idi[/b][/i]), (patewo re, ki oro re le di ayo[/i]) etc.

Am  not disputing that muslims use musical instruments during some religious activities, but when it comes to prayer, you will never see something like that ijo esin,[i], never!

Pa atewo re ki oro re le di ayo
I will praise him,
Jesus is the sweetest name I know
Idi ope mi re
etc, [i][/i]

Hope your Tv is not the one used by Lord Luggard, Mary Slessor etc, or maybe showing pictures in an upside-down position.


Quote
Never mind, just quote a verse from the above where 'singing' is used for worshipping God.

[b]Ps 9:11  Sing praises to the LORD, which dwelleth in Zion: declare among the people his doings.
Ps 13:6 I will sing unto the LORD, because he hath dealt bountifully with me.

Ps 18:49 Therefore will I give thanks unto thee, O LORD, among the heathen, and sing praises unto thy name.

Ps 21:13 Be thou exalted, LORD, in thine own strength: so will we sing and praise thy power.

Ps 27:6 And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD.

Ps 30:4 Sing unto the LORD, O ye saints of his, and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness.

Ps 30:12 To the end that my glory may sing praise to thee, and not be silent. O LORD my God, I will give thanks unto thee for ever.

Ps 33:2 Praise the LORD with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings.Ps 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.

Ps 47:6 Sing praises to God, sing praises: sing praises unto our King, sing praises.[/b]

Just to mention a few.

Muslims, abeg I tire for this guy. Simple English, he cant comprehend.

In all of the quoted verses, there is no where I can see the word 'worship'. Emphasis is on singing like you normally do when you are dancing juju, hip hop, makossa etc.

Church is just like a Party House where you go, listen to music or join them in singing, and dance your heart out.

The above verses are talking about singing and praising God.


Quote
Give me the verse from the Psalm that says you should use singing and dancing to worship God.

[b]Posted by: mrpataki  
Quote
Ps 149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

Ps 150:4  Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

Do you still want more? Digest that for now.

My friend, still no place where any of the above verses says you should use singing coupled with guitar, talking drum, etc to worship God.

Now read the below and compare with your above singing and dancing. You will that there is a big difference between singing, praising and worshipping.

Mathew 4v10: Then jesus said to him, 'begone satan; fpr it is written, you shall worship the Lord, your God and only Him shall you serve,

Revelation 15v4: Who shall not fear and glorify thy Name, O Lord, for thou art Holy .All nations shall come and worship thee for thy judgements have been revealed.

Exodus 34v8: And moses made haste to bow his head towards the earth and worshipped

(just like the muslims)

1st Samuel  1v19: They rose early in the morning and worshipped before the Lord.

(just like muslims do)

1st Samuel 1v 28: , and they worshipped the Lord there.

Accept Islam today and be saved.

Sajdah Sahv

How to Perform Sajdah Sahv

After completing tashahhud in the final sitting position one turns one's face only to the right with salutation and then saying takbeer, performs two sajdahs, one after the other, peacefully. After the second sajdah, one has to repeat tashahhud, durood, etc and complete the prayer in usual way.

When Sajdah Sahv will Not Make the Prayer Valid


*If a fard part of the prayer is ignored or missed intentionally or unintentionally.


If a wajib part is missed intentionally.

*When Sajdah Sahv is Obligatory

* If a person omits a wajib part of salat.

*If a person causes undue delay in performance of a wajib or fard part of salat.

*If a person repeats or overdoes something.

*If a person recites the Qur'an audibly where it should be recited inaudibly or vice-versa.

*If a person forgets to stand in qauma or to sit in jalsah.


If a person forgets to observe the first sitting (qa'dah ula) and stands up, he should not resume the sitting position on remembering the mistake, but should complete the prayer and perform sajdah sahv. However, if he realizes his mistake before standing up fully, he should sit down and need not perform sajdah sahv.


If a person forgets to observe final sitting position in a fard prayer containing two or four rak'ahs and stands up, he should sit down if he realizes the mistake before performing the sajdah (of the extra rak'ah) and carry out sajdah sahv to complete the prayer. If however he realizes his mistake after performing the sajdah (of the extra rak'ah), he should not sit but perform another rak'ah to complete four or six rak'ahs. He need not perform sajdah sahv, for this prayer will be regarded as nafl and fard prayer will have to be offered again.

*If a person forgets to recite Al-Fatiha, Qunut, or tashahhud or the additional takbirs in Eid Prayer.


*If the Imam omits or ignores wajib of the prayer, the follower has to perform sajdah sahv with the Imam. But if the follower omits a wajib neither of them has to perform sajdah sahv.


*If a person omits to recite the additional surah in one or both of the first rak'ahs of the fard prayer he may recite the additional surah in one or both of the last rak'ah and perform sajdah sahv at the end.



*If a person omits to recite the additional surah in any rak'ah of the sunnah or nafl prayer, he must perform sajdah sahv at the end.



*If in the final sitting of a fard prayer or four rak'ahs a person has completed tashahhud and then has a doubt that this is his first sitting, he should stand up for the fifth rak'ah. Now if before performing the sajdah he realizes his mistake he should resume the sitting position and complete his prayer with sajdah sahv. But if he has performed the sajdah of the fifth rak'ah, he should add the sixth rak'ah as well and complete his prayer with sajdah sahv. The first four rak'ahs will be regarded as the fard prayer and the last two as nafl.


*If the Imam or individual omits to recite Al-Fatiha in one or both of the last two rak'ahs of a fard prayer of four rak'ahs, he need not carry out sajdah sahv. But if he omits to recite Al-Fatiha in any of the sunnah or nafl rak'ahs, he will have to perform sajdah sahv because it is essential to recite Al-Fatiha in the first two rak'ahs of the fard prayer but in all the rak'ah of sunnah and nafl.



*If a person carries out two rukus or three sajdahs in the same rak'ah or recites Al-Fatiha twice, he will have to perform sajdah sahv.


*If a person begins to recite durood after tashahhud in first sitting and has recited as much as "Allahuma salli ala Muhammadin…" he will have to carry out sajdah sahv.


*If a masbuq commits mistake while he is completing his prayer independently, he has to perform sajdah sahv in the final sitting.



*If a person develops a doubt during his prayer as to whether he has performed three rak'ahs or four and he does not have such a doubt normally, he should repeat the whole prayer. But if he generally has such doubts he should take into account the lesser number of rak'ahs (3) and complete his prayer with sajdah sahv.


*If a person omits any sunnah or mustahabb parts in the prayer he need not perform sajdah sahv.



*If a person has committed a mistake entailing sajdah sahv but completes his prayer without carrying out sajdah sahv and realizes this before the salutation he should immediately perform sajdah sahv and repeat tashahhud, durood, and complete his prayer provided that he has not turned his face away from the Qiblah nor has had any conversation with another person.


*If a person performs only one sajdah in a rak'ah he may make it up in a subsequent rak'ah before tashahhud in the final sitting and perform sajdah sahv. If, however, he, remembers the mistake after tashahhud, he should perform the missed sajdah immediately and recite tashahhud, durood, etc. and complete the prayer with sajdah sahv as usual.


* If a person has offered four rak'ahs instead of two rak'ahs during a journey when it is essential to shorten one's prayer, and has observed the first sitting duly, he should carry out sajdah sahv in the final sitting. In this case, his first two rak'ahs will be regarded as fard and the remaining two as nafl.

.

THE IMPORTANCE OF THE FIVE DAILY PRAYER

The importance of prayer in Islam is great as it is the foremost duty of Muslims and one of the pillars on which the structure of Islam stands. It distinguishes Muslims from non-Muslims. The Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, said:

"What stands between a man and disbelief is the abandonment of prayer."

"Know that among your duties, prayer is foremost."

The object of prayer is to remember Allah. That is why prayer was dearest to the Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, as he said:

"He who gives up prayer has indeed disbelieved."


Prayers are very important in Islam, according to the prophet Muhammad Peace Be UponHim (PBUH) the first thing a human being will be held to account on the Day of Judgment is prayers. If he or she is delinquent in their prayers they will be held to account in greater details, but if their prayers are completed, they will receive forgiveness.

Since the inception of creation, Allah made it clear and firm that everything in the universe was created to pray, bow, prostrate and to glorify Him. Allah says: "Did you see that to Allah bow down (and prostrate) in prayer, everything in the heavens the earth, the sun, the moon, the stars, the mountains, the trees, the animals and great numbers among mankind"

Allah the Exalted says, “Recite what is sent of the Book (Qur’an) by inspiration to thee (Muhammad) and establish Regular Prayer: for Prayer restrains from shameful and unjust deeds; and remembrance of Allah is the greatest (thing in life) without doubt. And Allah knows the (deeds) that you do”.” Q29:45



Allah says in Q29:45 that solat (five daily prayer) is a form of remembrance of Him, also it is to prevent us from shameful deeds. Let us examine ourselves. Is our solat doing these purposes in our life? Can someone who is conscious of Allah engages in sin again and again? Let us be careful, we should not reduce our solat and other acts of worship to mere routine activities rather we should be conscious of the goals of these acts of worship. Allah warns us in Q107:4-7.



Solat is very important in Islam. Our beloved prophet (PBUH) was reported to have said that the first righteous deed that will be examined on the Day of Judgment is the solat. And whoever fails in this will fail in other things. Solat is to be observed at prescribed periods “When you pass (congregational) prayers celebrate Allah's praises standing, sitting down or lying down on your sides; but when you are free from danger set up regular prayers: for such prayers are enjoined on believers at stated times.” (Q4:103).



We should note that remembrance of Allah is not limited to sitting down in the mosque and chanting Allahu akbar, Lailaha ila Allah, etc. It includes reading and pondering on the meaning of verses of the Holy Qur’an in the language we understand (Q3:191). Our beloved prophet (PBUH) and his companions demonstrated this. It is narrated in a hadith that the prophet (PBUH) requested one of his companions to recite verses of the Qur’an for him. The companion was reciting until he recited a verse something like, “One day We shall raise from all peoples a witness against them from amongst themselves: and We shall bring thee (Muhammad) as a witness against these (Muslims): and We have sent down to thee the Book explaining all things a guide a Mercy and glad tidings to Muslims.” (Q16:89). Our beloved prophet started crying and asked the companion to stop. Our beloved Prophet (PBUH) knew that he will give account of his leadership to Allah, this made him cry because it a great responsibility.


Worship is mentioned in the Holy Quran 152 times, bowing 15 times and prostration 74 times, and prayer 99 times. Prayers keep a person in constant contact with the creator, and keeps him conscious of the creator, and will remind him to heed the creator because between prayers he is careful not to do bad deeds, because he will be meeting the creator during the five times of prayers which are: dawn (hour and half before sunrise), noon, mid afternoon, sunset, and hour and half after sunset. The prayers are mentioned in the Quran in various verses to remind us that we should continue to pray and establish the prayer no matter what.


Prayer is a direct contact with the creator, it is to be renewed several times a day to keep those who pray in contact with the creator and to gain benefits from the prayer for themselves. The form of prayer for all mankind as decreed by Allah via the prophets Mary (the mother of Jesus) was the same as indicated in the following verses in the Holy Quran, which is the last heavenly book, revealed for all mankind


This prayer to Allah occurs around the globe every millisecond since creation and until the Day of Judgment. Prayers are also performed by others that Allah created. Allah says: "You do not understand their prayer but it does occur". Such a prayer is daily and continuous and they will be held to account until they die. Nothing in the universe will stay alive except the creator. Everything that Allah created will taste death once.


The following are some of the verses that are mentioned concerning prayer in the holy Quran:


"Who believe in the unseen and establish the prayer continuously and contribute to the needy from what we provided for them". (Sura 2, ver. 3)

"And establish the prayer and give the Zakat (alms giving) and bow with those who bow in prayer" (Sura 2, ver. 43)

"And remember we took a covenant from the offspring of Jacob (Israel): worship not but Allah, treat with kindness your parents, and kindred and orphans and those in need speak fear to the people, be steadfast and say nice words to mankind and establish the prayer and give the Zakat and some of you turned away except some who responded" (Sura 2, ver. 83)

"And establish the prayer and give Zakat and what you do in good deeds and obedience to Allah, you will find it written and Allah knows what you are doing and he can see your strive in this life" (Sura 2, ver. 110)

"Righteousness is not to turn your face toward the East or West, but righteousness is to believe in Allah and the day of judgment and the Angels and the Quran and all the prophets and to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the poor and those who are traveling and can't pay their way and those who are seeking help and those who establish the prayer and give the Zakat and those who fulfill their promises when they give it to people and those who are patient when they face a problem and when they are in trouble they are the ones who are sincere and they are the ones who heed Allah" (Sura 2, ver. 177)

"Those who believe and do good deeds and establish the prayer continuously and give the Zakat they will have their reward waiting for them and they should have no fear nor be sad". (Sura 2, ver. 277)

"Oh you who believe do not approach prayer while you are intoxicated (drunk), so you may know what you are saying" (Sura 4, ver. 43)

"If you completed the prayer remember Allah every time you get up or sit and every time you turn while you are sitting and if you feel content then continue establishing the prayer because the prayer is required of the believers according to its prayers schedule. (Sura 4, ver.103)

"The hypocrites are trying to beguile Allah and He will beguile them and if they establish the prayer they will get up while they are lazy like they are being forced to do it. They are praying only to show off the people that they are praying but they do not remember Allah as they should" (Sura 4, ver. 143)

"But those among them who are well grounded in knowledge and the believers believe in what was revealed to you and what was revealed to the prophets before you and those who establish the prayer regularly and those who give the Zakat and those who believe in Allah and the day of judgment Allah will give them a great reward for their effort". (Sura 4, ver. 162).

"And Allah did aforetime take a covenant from the children of Jacob (Israel) and we appointed twelve captains among them and Allah says I am with you, if you establish regular prayer, practice the Zakat regularly and believe in my apostles and honored them and assist them and contribute to the needy, I will wipe out your bad deeds and admit you paradise in which there will be gardens with rivers that will flow underneath the gardens, but if any of you after this forsake the faith, has truly wondered from the path of rectitude" (Sura 5, ver. 12)

"Your trustee and protector is Allah, so follow the messenger and those -among you who believed and established the prayer and gave the Zakat while they are bowing in prayer". (Sura 5, ver. 55)

"Satan want to make animosity among you and hatred by enticing you to drink and gamble and so you may be turned away from Allah and from praying on regular basis, so do not listen to him". (Sura 5, ver. 91)

"An establish the prayer on regular basis and obey Allah because to him you will return on the day of judgment" (Sura 6, ver.72)

"And those who obeyed the Quran and establish the prayer, 411ah will not waste the effort of the reformers" (Sura 7, ver. 1 70)

"Those who establish the prayer on regular basis and from what we provide for them in income they contribute to the needy". (Sura 8, ver. 3)

"Those who build mosques as the house of Allah are the ones who believe in Allah and the day of judgment and who pray regularly and who give the Zakat in regular basis and they do not fear any one but Allah, they will be the ones who are guided". (Sura 9, ver. 18)

"And we revealed to Musa and his brother to provide willingly for your people in Egypt and make your dwelling into places of worship and establish regular prayers and give glad tidings to the believers". (Sura IO, ver. 87)

"And establish regular prayers at the two ends of the day and the approaches of the night, do good deeds and remove those that are evil, be the word of remembrance to those who remember" (Sura II, ver. 14)

"And say to my creatures that believed to establish the prayers on a regular basis and to contribute to charity from what sustenance l provided for them openly and privately before the coming of the day in which will be neither mutual bargaining nor befriending" (Sura 14, ver. 31)

"Oh my Lord, I have made some of my offspring to dwell in a valley without cultivation by thy sacred house in order, 0 our lord that they may establish regular prayers, so fill the hearts of some among them with love towards each other and feed them with the fruits, so they may give appreciation and gratitude to you".

"O my creator make me establish the prayer on a regular basis and make my offspring do the same and accept my supplication. " (Sura 14, ver. 40)

"Establish regular prayers at the suns decline till the darkness of the night and the morning prayer and reading of the Quran because the morning prayer and the reading will be witnessed by Angels. " (Sura 17, ver. 78)

"A new generation came after them who did not establish the prayer and they follow their lust and so they will be facing punishment " (Sura 19, ver. 59)

"It is me, Allah, there is no other deity but me, so worship me and establish the prayer to remember me". (Sura 20, ver. 14)

"And we made them leaders who guide the masses with our revelations and we inspire them to do good deeds and establish the prayer and to give Zakat and they did that and they worshipped their Lord". (Sura 21, ver. 73)

"Those who when Allah is mentioned, their hearts will feel submission to the creator and those who are patient when they face a calamity and they are the ones who establish prayers and who contribute to the needy from what sustenance we gave them. (Sura 22, ver. 35)

"Those whom if we gave them a place to live in and gave them security, established the prayer and gave the Zakat and who asked the people to obey what Allah revealed and to avoid disobeying Allah and all matters revert to Allah". (Sura 22, ver. 41)

"And establish the prayer and give the Zakat and obey the messenger so you may receive mercy from the creator". (Sura 24, ver. 56)

"And they were ordered only to pray to Allah and to worship him sincerely and to be sincere in their religion and to establish the prayer and to give the Zakat, and that is the true religion and the right path". (Sura 98, ver. 5)


“Men who celebrate the praises of (remember) Allah standing, sitting and lying down on their sides and contemplate the (wonders of) creation in the heavens and the earth (with the thought): "Our Lord! You have not created (all) this without purpose! Glory to thee! Give us salvation from the penalty of the fire.” Q3:191



"Those who believe and whose hearts find satisfaction in the remembrance of Allah: for without doubt in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find satisfaction.”Q13:28

“So woe to the worshippers. Who are neglectful of their Prayers (Solat). Those who (want but) to be seen (of men). But refuse (to supply) (even) neighborly needs.” Q107:4-7

@mukina

Salam sister,

More power to your elbow as you enlighten us on the importance of salat.

Maa salam

Yet, you still showed your ignorance

What you do in christianity is singing and singing is something that has to do with musical instrument and you can't worship with that. Dont worry, go to the end of my post, you will see the difference between praising God and worshipping God.

Babs 787, you mean to say when you worship God it is only by prayer? You are very wrong there mister.
Give me a scripture that tells me worshipping God is by prayer?

babs787:

What you do in christianity is singing and singing is something that has to do with musical instrument and you can't worship with that. Dont worry, go to the end of my post, you will see the difference between praising God and worshipping

Worship encompasses prayer, praise, singing, offering and the believer's lifestyle.

"Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name: bring an offering, and come before him: worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness." (I Chron. 16:29)

"And Jehoshaphat bowed his head with his face to the ground: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem fell before the LORD, worshipping the LORD. And the Levites, of the children of the Kohathites, and of the children of the Korhites, stood up to praise the LORD God of Israel with a loud voice on high." (II Chron. 20:18-19)

"And all the congregation worshipped, and the singers sang, and the trumpeters sounded: and all this continued until the burnt offering was finished." (II Chron. 29:28)

"All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name. Selah." (Psa. 66:4)

"I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name." (Psa. 138:2)

"And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast" (John 12:20).

My the peace of Allah continue to abide with the Righteous.

True righteousness is found in Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God.

Asalm ailkum sister mukinat,i appreciate ur effort towards enlighten the muslims on how to observe solat. may Almight Allah reward u abundantly and accept it as an act of ibadd (Amen). kindly send me ur e-mail address.This is to enable to dissscuss some issue with u.

mukinats email address is
killkillalltheinfidelsand enemiesof Allah@yahoo.com

@ 4get_me,
Thanks a lot there for the explanation. Wanted him to make the error, which he actually did there.
God bless you greatly for those scriptures.

bindex:

mukinats email address is
killkillalltheinfidelsand enemiesof Allah@yahoo.com

@bindex,

You have been posting senseless posts all these while. Say out whatever is in your mind or you allow it perish within you.

@4 get me & mrpataki,

Posted by: mrpataki
Insert Quote
@ 4get_me,
Thanks a lot there for the explanation. Wanted him to make the error, which he actually did there.
God bless you greatly for those scriptures.


What error are you referring to?

Make sure you do not contradict each other just like davidylan and shahan did.

Posted by 4get_me
Worship encompasses prayer, praise, singing, offering and the believer's lifestyle.

You are right my brother. But when it comes to prayer, it must be nothing but SOLAT.All the activities mentioned above precede prayer.

We muslims too praise Allah e.g The recitation of
Allahuma Solih Ala-Muhammad, Wa Ali Muhammad,
Laila Ila Lahu Muhammad Rosululah
Subhana Lah

Etc,

When it comes to prayer, there must be silence coupled with praying to God face down (Sujud). Bible authors tried as much as possible to remove all the acts pertaining to Muslims' worship but couldnt change everything.

Posted by: 4get_me
"Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name: bring an offering, and come before him: worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness." (I Chron. 16:29)

The above says you should worship God but not with musical instruments

Posted by: 4get_me
"And Jehoshaphat bowed his head with his face to the ground: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem fell before the LORD, worshipping the LORD. And the Levites, of the children of the Kohathites, and of the children of the Korhites, stood up to praise the LORD God of Israel with a loud voice on high." (II Chron. 20:18-19)

Here, they prayed and worship God just like muslims, bowing their heads with their faces to the ground (Sujud) and later stood up to praise God just like muslims do after every prayer.

Posted by: 4get_me
"And all the congregation worshipped, and the singers sang, and the trumpeters sounded: and all this continued until the burnt offering was finished." (II Chron. 29:28)

The above activities were not done at the same time hence the word "and". The activities follow in sequential order. They first worshipped, then sang followed by the blowing of the trumpets.

Posted by: 4get_me
"All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name. Selah." (Psa. 66:4)

Did you notice that worship precedes singing?

Posted by: 4get_me
"I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name." (Psa. 138:2)

Did you see in the above that they were both differentiated (worshipping and praising)?

Posted by: 4get_me
"And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast" (John 12:20).

Lets see from the bible how they worshipped and prayed to God just like muslims

Mathew 26v39: And going a little farther he fell on his face, (just like muslims)
Mathew 4v9-10: , All these I will give you if you will fall down and worship me.
v10: Then jesus said to him, Begone, Satan! for it is written " You shall worship your Lord God and only him shall you serve"

It is noted in the above that Jesus had to rebuke Satan when he told him to bow down and worship him. Both of them knew that bowing dow is only the act of worshipping God just like the muslims.

1st corinthians 14v25: The secrets of the heart are disclosed; and so, FALLING ON HIS FACE, HE WILL WORSHIP GOD and declare that God is really among you.

The above shows that they prayed just like muslims.

Now let us go to SOLAT IN THE BIBLE

Nehemiah 8v1-6 :
1. And all the people gathered as one man into the square before the water gate

[Getting set for congregational prayer (solat) ]

2. And Ezra the priest brought the law before the assembly, both men and women and all who could hear with understanding on the first day of the seventh month

(Just like when Iman brings out the Holy Quran)

3. And he read from it facing the square before the water gate from early morning until midday in the presence of the men and women and those who could understand, and the ears of all the people were attentive to the book of the law

(the book of the law is just like the Quran. He reads out to the congregation just like Imams do)

4. And Ezra the scribe stood on a wooden pulpit which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithiah, Shema, Annaiah Uriah, Hilkiah, and a Maaseiah on his right hand and Pedaiah, Mishael, Malchijah, Hashum, Hashbaddanah, Zechariah and Meshullah on his left

(Just like when muslims are getting set for Solat hence the line up and the arrangement from the right to the left)

5. And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people, for he was above all the people and when he opened it all the people stood.

(Note: there is no sitting on chairs like the christians do here. Ezra just like Imam wants to recite from the book known to muslims as "Khutbah"

6. And Ezra blessed the Lord, the great God, and all the people answered, AMEN, AMEN,

(just like praising Allah first followed by the recitation of Surah Fatiah in which at the end of the recitation, muslims will say AMIN)

I continue with the verse 6

6. Lifting up their hands and they BOWED THEIR HEADS AND WORSHIPPED THE LORD with THEIR FACES TO THE GROUND.

(Lifting up their hands just like when muslims say Allah Akbar and proceeds to Rukuh and finally to Sujud [bowing their heads with their face down].

If you 4get me, pataki and others will not deceive yourselves, Solat is from God and will accept the fact that what they did here, is nothing short of Solat. Any meaning you may try to give the above will go other way thereby contradicting the verse. If you want to say its not Solat, tell me what they all did in the above verse.

Exodus 34v8: , And moses made haste to bow his head towards the earth and worship before the Lord.

It has been established that solat had been in exitence before Prophet Muhammed (saw). The only difference is that, it was during his time (as a result of the night journey) that the religion was perfected.i.e, he was given 5 times daily prayer.

It is high time you accepted the truth which is ISLAM because it is the only religion before God.

Maa Salam

@babs787,

babs787:

@4 get me & mrpataki,

Make sure you do not contradict each other just like davidylan and shahan did.

What is the contradiction you have read between our entries?

babs787:


Posted by 4get_me
Worship encompasses prayer, praise, singing, offering and the believer's lifestyle.

You are right my brother. But when it comes to prayer, it must be nothing but SOLAT.All the activities mentioned above precede prayer.

Why is it that everything "must be" judged by Islamic interpretations, even though you don't have a good grasp of your own interpretations? Prayer is not something that "must be" SOLAT.

babs787:

When it comes to prayer, there must be silence coupled with praying to God face down (Sujud). Bible authors tried as much as possible to remove all the acts pertaining to Muslims' worship but couldnt change everything.

Dishonest claims again. No "Bible authors" tried to remove anything given to them by inspiration. Rather, it was Muhammad that tried to remove every refernce in the Bible that exposes his claim to be a prophet.

There is no hard and fast rule about prayer in the Bible - one can be silent or loud; it is not a mechanical, robotic, empty and spiritless exercise such as you describe happens in your version of prayer. God's people can pray with face down or face up, kneeling or sitting, walking or standing. It is all a matter of the Spirit of God birthing deep inspiration in the heart of the one praying.

babs787:

Posted by: 4get_me
"Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name: bring an offering, and come before him: worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness." (I Chron. 16:29)

The above says you should worship God but not with musical instruments

Where you get your ideas from have no bearing in Biblical understanding. If you ever understood the meaning of "the beauty of holiness", then you would not be advancing such kidding arguments.

babs787:

Posted by: 4get_me
"And Jehoshaphat bowed his head with his face to the ground: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem fell before the LORD, worshipping the LORD. And the Levites, of the children of the Kohathites, and of the children of the Korhites, stood up to praise the LORD God of Israel with a loud voice on high." (II Chron. 20:18-19)

Here, they prayed and worship God just like muslims, bowing their heads with their faces to the ground (Sujud) and later stood up to praise God just like muslims do after every prayer.

Please don't make me laugh - "like Muslims do". Indeed. When do Muslims ever "praise the LORD God of Israel with a loud voice on high"?? Is this something you have been hoping for a long time that you must of necessity have some way of twisting issues? Do Muslims know the LORD God of Israel that much to still detest the Jews??

babs787:

Posted by: 4get_me
"And all the congregation worshipped, and the singers sang, and the trumpeters sounded: and all this continued until the burnt offering was finished." (II Chron. 29:28)

The above activities were not done at the same time hence the word "and". The activities follow in sequential order. They first worshipped, then sang followed by the blowing of the trumpets.

And what difference did it make from my statement earlier that worship encompasses all those activities? The same argument could be stated using Matt. 18:26 ('The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all') - "fell down, and worshipped him" >> are they separate the one from another?? Did the man finish with the first part ('fell down') and then do the second separately ('worship')?? What sort of reasoning are you advancing with mere semantics?

You're just sweating to look for a crack somewhere where none exists; that is why your efforts to interpret everything by Quraish tradition is not helping your case. The word "and" does not separate the worship of God's people from those activities; rather, more than anything, it INCLUDES them!

babs787:

Posted by: 4get_me
"All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name. Selah." (Psa. 66:4)

Did you notice that worship precedes singing?

Does that negate the fact that worship includes singing?

babs787:

Posted by: 4get_me
"I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name." (Psa. 138:2)

Did you see in the above that they were both differentiated (worshipping and praising)?

They were both INCLUSIVE - go do a little study of the language construct. It is a matter here of emphasis, as most other texts using the word "and" demonstrate that the same thing is being referred to with emphasis!

babs787:

Posted by: 4get_me
"And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast" (John 12:20).

Lets see from the bible how they worshipped and prayed to God just like muslims

Would you please stop being so dishonest for once? The Greeks never knew anything like Islam back then; they did not worship like Muslims; their worship activities did not in any way bear semblance to Islamic worship; most of all, it was to the LORD God of Israel that they came to worship - in the sacred feasts of the LORD! Where in all these do you draw the semblance between Jewish and Muslim worship?

babs787:

Mathew 26v39: And going a little farther he fell on his face, (just like muslims)

Alright then - by your inference, we should suppose that they Greeks came into Gethsemane to do the very same act as did Jesus at the hour? And since when have muslims started using the Bible to "prove" Islamic worship?

babs787:

Mathew 4v9-10: , All these I will give you if you will fall down and worship me.

Please babs787, go read the context there - Jesus did not yield worship to Satan; and your reference here is not in any way significant.

babs787:

v10: Then jesus said to him, Begone, Satan! for it is written " You shall worship your Lord God and only him shall you serve"

Proves precisely my point just above.

babs787:

It is noted in the above that Jesus had to rebuke Satan when he told him to bow down and worship him. Both of them knew that bowing dow is only the act of worshipping God just like the muslims.

The "only act of worshipping God" (as you put it) is what Islam preaches. This is how the Bible itself deflates that idea: Heb. 11:21 - "By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff."

Did you miss that? This blessed patriarch was leaning upon the top of his staff when he worshipped - is that the same as falling down on his face towards the ground? What really is your problem, babs787?

babs787:

1st corinthians 14v25: The secrets of the heart are disclosed; and so, FALLING ON HIS FACE, HE WILL WORSHIP GOD and declare that God is really among you.

The above shows that they prayed just like muslims.

Please, if you can give me one verse in the Qur'an that says Muslim worship like the Church in Corinth, I would most gladly rest my case. Or, stated another way: "Please find me the one verse that mentions Muslims ever addressing God the same as the Corinthians did - past, present, or future."

Just bowing down does not equate Christian worship in Corinth with Muslim worship anywhere - one must go into the substance of their worship; which is the main reason why anyone claiming to have been a former Christian and now a Muslim (like you) is holding unto. There would be no reason for this debate or any divergent views if it was only a matter of bowing down with face to the ground!

babs787:

Now let us go to SOLAT IN THE BIBLE

Nehemiah 8v1-6 :
1. And all the people gathered as one man into the square before the water gate

[Getting set for congregational prayer (solat) ]

2. And Ezra the priest brought the law before the assembly, both men and women and all who could hear with understanding on the first day of the seventh month

(Just like when Iman brings out the Holy Quran)

3. And he read from it facing the square before the water gate from early morning until midday in the presence of the men and women and those who could understand, and the ears of all the people were attentive to the book of the law

(the book of the law is just like the Quran. He reads out to the congregation just like Imams do)

4. And Ezra the scribe stood on a wooden pulpit which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithiah, Shema, Annaiah Uriah, Hilkiah, and a Maaseiah on his right hand and Pedaiah, Mishael, Malchijah, Hashum, Hashbaddanah, Zechariah and Meshullah on his left

(Just like when muslims are getting set for Solat hence the line up and the arrangement from the right to the left)

5. And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people, for he was above all the people and when he opened it all the people stood.

(Note: there is no sitting on chairs like the christians do here. Ezra just like Imam wants to recite from the book known to muslims as "Khutbah"

As pointed out above, there are no similarities of worship between Jewish and Muslim worship; so any reference here is simply mute. Second, there may not have been chairs in the references quoted above; yet in the same setting of Jewish setting, people could sit down -

"And he (i.e., Jesus) closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him." (Luke 4:20).

babs787:

6. And Ezra blessed the Lord, the great God, and all the people answered, AMEN, AMEN,

(just like praising Allah first followed by the recitation of Surah Fatiah in which at the end of the recitation, muslims will say AMIN)

In all honesty, do Muslims follow the precedence in Jewish worship?

babs787:

I continue with the verse 6

6. Lifting up their hands and they BOWED THEIR HEADS AND WORSHIPPED THE LORD with THEIR FACES TO THE GROUND.

(Lifting up their hands just like when muslims say Allah Akbar and proceeds to Rukuh and finally to Sujud [bowing their heads with their face down].

As above, there are no similarities between the two.

babs787:

If you forget me, pataki and others will not deceive yourselves, Solat is from God and will accept the fact that what they did here, is nothing short of Solat. Any meaning you may try to give the above will go other way thereby contradicting the verse. If you want to say its not Solat, tell me what they all did in the above verse.

In all honesty, if there were SOLAT, then please tell me: where in ISLAM do Muslims worship the LORD Gos of Israel?

As I pointed out earlier, it is not just a matter of surficial interpretations that settles the matter - one needs go into the real crux of the issues highlighted in those references.

babs787:

Exodus 34v8: , And moses made haste to bow his head towards the earth and worship before the Lord.

It has been established that solat had been in exitence before Prophet Muhammed (saw). The only difference is that, it was during his time (as a result of the night journey) that the religion was perfected.i.e, he was given 5 times daily prayer.

If MUHAMMAD could actually produce one verse (abrogated or otherwise) that states that MUSLIMS worshipped "the LORD God of Israel", then I rest my case.

babs787:

It is high time you accepted the truth which is ISLAM because it is the only religion before God.

I knew that would predictably be your conclusion - a fine way of denying the same religion that you just compared. There is no truth in ISLAM, especially as confirmed by the Islamic tenet of al-Taqqiya.

I want to believe this thread was spawned by a Muslim for Muslims why all the side talks

@ Mukina,
My village people say: its the people you trade with that you haggle with not third parties

They equally say: One who is at the centre of attention does not watch others

So ride on!!

@mrpataki,

mrpataki:

@ 4get_me,
Thanks a lot there for the explanation. Wanted him to make the error, which he actually did there.
God bless you greatly for those scriptures.

I saw this earlier but was rushing off for something. No vex. God bless you more, and my prayers for babs787 to come to terms with his eristic arguments.



@Diplenty,

Diplenty:

I want to believe this thread was spawned by a Muslim for Muslims why all the side talks

@ Mukina,
My village people say: its the people you trade with that you haggle with not third parties

They equally say: One who is at the centre of attention does not watch others

So ride on!!

There's a saying among my villa people as well: "If you dey pass on and hear person talk wetin concern you, pay attention before them do you damage!"

It is for that reason I don't go to the thread: "Muslims: What Did You Learn In Islam Recently?" I just pass my own jeje. But in Islam Talk thread, I dey pass when one of these gentlemen mention wetin concern us - that explains my presence here, before he do me damage!

@ 4 get me & pataki,

Posted by 4 get me
There's a saying among my villa people as well: "If you dey pass on and hear person talk wetin concern you, pay attention before them do you damage!"

It is for that reason I don't go to the thread: "Muslims: What Did You Learn In Islam Recently?" I just pass my own jeje. But in Islam Talk thread, I dey pass when one of these gentlemen mention wetin concern us - that explains my presence here, before he do me damage!

Honestly, I have given up on both of you but you still remain my friends .

I have explained myself, you only need to go over the thread. Hey wait, the issue of jacob

Heb. 11:21 - "By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff."

So you dont know that muslims too can worship God when not feeling fine by leaning on something to aid support.

Posted by 4 get me
"If you dey pass on and hear person talk wetin concern you, pay attention before them do you damage!"

Which one be your own? How e take concern you if dem dey fight for other compound? Se na your compound.

Another talk say, person no dey dem im house come see trouble.

Take care friends till we meet again.

@babs787,

babs787:

Honestly, I have given up on both of you but you still remain my friends .

Even though I am sometimes a rascal when debating issues with you, it's heart-warming that you took my joke lightly and still maintain our friendship.

babs787:

I have explained myself, you only need to go over the thread. Hey wait, the issue of jacob

Heb. 11:21 - "By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff."

So you don't know that muslims too can worship God when not feeling fine by leaning on something to aid support.

Sorry for me - I didn't know that, as I was never a Muslim. Anyhow, when you carefully read that verse again, you'll find it was not because Jacob was "not feeeling fine" that leaned on his staff.

babs787:

Posted by 4 get me
"If you dey pass on and hear person talk wetin concern you, pay attention before them do you damage!"

Which one be your own? How e take concern you if them dey fight for other compound? Se na your compound.

Another talk say, person no dey them im house come see trouble.

Agreed - the compound no be my own. Shébi na pass I dey pass jeje?? I hear sontin wey tingle my attention, na im I branch to greet una!

babs787:

Take care friends till we meet again.

Bo, enjoy plenty o jare.

babs787:

@ 4 get me & pataki,

Posted by 4 get me
There's a saying among my villa people as well: "If you dey pass on and hear person talk wetin concern you, pay attention before them do you damage!"

It is for that reason I don't go to the thread: "Muslims: What Did You Learn In Islam Recently?" I just pass my own jeje. But in Islam Talk thread, I dey pass when one of these gentlemen mention wetin concern us - that explains my presence here, before he do me damage!

Honestly, I have given up on both of you but you still remain my friends .

See who talks here oh, I will not give up on you, babatunde, until accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior!. Even the Love of God envelopes me into doing such.

babs787:


Heb. 11:21 - "By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff."

So you don't know that muslims too can worship God when not feeling fine by leaning on something to aid support.

How do you mean about the fact that muslims can worship God when not feeling fine by leaning on something considering the fact that your only mode of worship is by your Yoga lessons in the name of prayers?