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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) (8248 Views)
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Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by 1Sharon(f): 8:44pm On Aug 19, 2017 |
701ecilana: Oh so when you said slotting with men and women what was that supposed to mean? You want to play dumb? 1 Like |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by 701ecilana: 8:45pm On Aug 19, 2017 |
LightandDarkness:Izit a lie? |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by dalaman: 9:21pm On Aug 19, 2017 |
BlueAngel444: You believe that a dead Jewish man that lived 2000 years ago is still alive abi? 1 Like |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by 701ecilana: 9:52pm On Aug 19, 2017 |
1Sharon:Okay, sorry about that. Now contribute. |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by 1Sharon(f): 11:04pm On Aug 19, 2017 |
701ecilana: FOH 2 Likes |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by BlueAngel444: 2:08pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
dalaman: Well you seem to believe more than I, He lives |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by PastorAIO: 2:16pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
butterflylion: I cannot answer this until you explain what you mean by Natural vs supernatural. Personally I feel that ghosts are superdingdongs. |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by butterflylion: 2:52pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
PastorAIO: Read the OP again my definitions are there. |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by PastorAIO: 4:04pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
butterflylion: I think that you might you might have missed my first post on this thread. esp. where I said this: https://www.nairaland.com/3994487/atheists-believe-supernatural-please-come#59567037 |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by PastorAIO: 6:16pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
butterflylion: How about subnatural? I actually think it is more likely to be a subnatural that henimenjb. |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by butterflylion: 6:20pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
PastorAIO: Define subnatural and offer me your own definition of natural which isn't circular |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by dalaman: 6:30pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
BlueAngel444:It was just a typo. Jesus lived 2000 years ago and died but you believe he is still alive. If I ask you to tell me where he is and demonstrate clearly how he is alive you'll start blabbing. |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by PastorAIO: 6:40pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
butterflylion: butterflylion: Subnatural is a gulf away from natural whereby the sub is a lower form of natural. I think you missed my post where I said in all the long years of my life I have never heard a succinct definition of Nature vis a vis Supernature. I am of the opinion that such terminology is just fuddyduddy thinking. I don't know if it was you earlier who said that Natural was phenomenon that we can explain and Supernatural was phenomenon we couldn't explain. This is analogous to a 'God of the gaps' definition of god. 1 Like |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by butterflylion: 7:11pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
PastorAIO: Please stick to the discussion. God of the gaps or anything close isn't my aim. A nice intelligent discussion is all I aim for. If you do not know if such is even meaningful and you call it fuddyduddy and then push forward what you think which is also fuddyduddy as it stands today then where is the sense you are making? 1 Like |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by PastorAIO: 7:24pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
butterflylion: Well, defining Nature as anything you can explain and Supernatural as what you cannot explain sounds like 'god of the gaps' to me. That therefore means that as knowledge increases then what is considered Natural will expand while what is supernatural will get less and less. |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by BlueAngel444: 7:30pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
dalaman: Bla bla bla |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by dalaman: 7:34pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
BlueAngel444: Just as I said. |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by butterflylion: 7:34pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
PastorAIO: So knowledge can be pure even when knowledge often does not compare itself for approval? Without even looking at ghosts or the supernatural in such a big way and we choose to look at it from a small angle when we refer to human consciousness, there are scientific studies today which show the consciousness is not brain based and exists outside the brain. Is it not safe to say that we can get to the place of knowledge where it is absolutely true that consciousness is not dependant on the brain which would then give credence to spirituality and what we term as ghost ? |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by PastorAIO: 7:58pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
butterflylion: I don 't disagree that consciousness is not brain based. But that has no bearing on anything else, whether it be ghosts or spirituality. I am afraid that I might begin to sound haughty or too bigfor my boots on thismatter. I don't mean to. The problem is that I've thrashed this issue out over and over again on nairaland a long time ago. It has taken a while but I have found a thread in which I discussed much on this Nature/Supernatural matter. I'll re-post some of the posts and the links for you to read. I also offered some definitions of Natural vs supernatural in the posts. |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by butterflylion: 8:02pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
PastorAIO: Be sure you include that they are purely your thoughts |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by dalaman: 8:05pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
PastorAIO: If consiouness is not brain based then can it exist without the brain? Has any body that has been certified brain dead demonstrated any clear consious ability? 1 Like |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by PastorAIO: 8:49pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
butterflylion: No wahala! I did exactly that, way back in 2009. What I found shocking with the fact that my fellow discussant was comfortable with using the term without a tight definition. This is a very excellent line of enquiry. What is the Supernatural? intimately bound to this is obviously the question what is the natural. Without a clear definition of what natural is how can we say what is super-natural, super meaning 'over' or above. To know what is above the natural it is necessary to first know what the natural is. https://www.nairaland.com/280962/what-supernatural#3990511 |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by butterflylion: 8:52pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
dalaman: Simply put, consciousness is something the brain accesses but does not generate! consciousness is something applied to the brain, not generated by it. I hope that's simple enough. |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by dalaman: 8:57pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
butterflylion: What generates consciousness and how can it be clearly demonstrated? |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by PastorAIO: 9:18pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
OK, let me give you an idea. Can you say natural or supernatural to each of the following according to what is commonly and standardly accepted ? You see Huxley, it seems that you are quite confused. Pretty much everything that you've mentioned above it stuff. When you talk about naturalism or supernaturalism are you talking about stuff or are you talking about PROCESSES. Stuff is stuff. It can undergo natural processes or it can undergo supernatural processes. WAter is water. If it runs down hill you might say that is natural. If it runs uphill you might say that is un natural or supernatural. For example, Crop circles exist. That's a fact. The How they came to exist is what might rely on naturalistic or supernatural explanation. That is why it is important to know what you are talking about when you talk about naturalism. Are you referring to substances or processes? The terms are usually used to refer to processes and Causality. So you have natural causes and you have supernatural causes. Is this what you mean when you talk about natural? Is so then you will still have to define what makes a process natural as opposed to supernatural? Perhaps by saying for example that Natural causes occur prior to an event in time. That way we know that an event that occurs tomorrow cannot influence what happens today, if it did that would be supernatural. That's just an hint. https://www.nairaland.com/279631/why-not-atheist/5#3998952 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by PastorAIO: 9:21pm On Aug 20, 2017 |
What qualities would 'non-stuff' have to distinguish it from stuff? You're gonna have to do a lot better man. you're just throwing words about without presenting a rigorous system. I'll help you out a bit again. Would you say that stuff (natural stuff) would have to occupy space and time? Ie would it have to be extended in Space and exist for a span of time? Yes or no? I just wanna help you define Nature. https://www.nairaland.com/279631/why-not-atheist/5#3999117 |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by adepeter2027(m): 11:45am On Aug 21, 2017 |
701ecilana:Shey wan bí sórí mo ẹja ní?? Dem send you to me neh |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by 701ecilana: 11:59am On Aug 21, 2017 |
adepeter2027:Me? Someone can send me to you? To get what from you nah? I just noticed that you hardly engage anyone in a consistent and coherent discussion, so i decided to urge you to do so, so that we can learn something from you. Sometimes we shd fight, but it shouldn't be all the time nah. Now, lets talk. So, contribute. |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by adepeter2027(m): 12:12pm On Aug 21, 2017 |
701ecilana: Then get behind me you Satan To get what from you nah? Ọ̀pá Mósè naw I just noticed that you hardly engage anyone in a consistent and coherent discussion, Really A beg me no get time for long stories again. @bold Consistent and coherent discussion ain't worth it on this section jàre. It doesn't pay. so i decided to urge you to do so, Monitoring spirit. so that we can learn something from you. Too many insincere fellow on this section. I have done that in the past already with my other moniker that got banned.
Wow, analice yaff changed óò. That's good but miss, I'm lazy currently when it comes to composition So, contribute.Sorry dearie |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by dalaman: 12:21pm On Aug 21, 2017 |
Still waiting for what generates consciousness. |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by 701ecilana: 3:37pm On Aug 21, 2017 |
adepeter2027:Hahahahahahaha. Wait!!! So you think i fight all the time? Naaa. You guys turned me to abl Tiger, now i have decided to just shun you guys. This banter didn't originate with us and won't end with us. Atheists from Nietzsche and Voltair have been demanding for God to show himself physically b4 they'd believe him. But he had already done so once, they still didn't believe because it wasn't done according to their terms and conditions. God showed himself in the person of Christ, and that was according to His own terms not man's. No man can command God. You no well? Satan himself didn't believe God could do it so he went for confirmation demanding that Christ did his biddings, by demanding that Christ turn stones to bread if he were the son of God, he failed yet again. We'd either take it according to his terms or reject it and hope we are right at the end. But if we are wrong... We are here bantering over whether God exists or not, after we are gone, if Christ tarries, our offspring shall banter about it, till Christ Raptures his Church, it won't end. And God will keep being God. So, i'd rather teach those who wld want to learn than banter obstinate ones who would rather scorn than listen. After all salvation is not for everyone. Satan has his Seed right from the start, so no matter what anyone does, the fallen will never rise. Shalom. 1 Like |
Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by PastorAIO: 8:16pm On Aug 23, 2017 |
dalaman: Yes, I believe that consciousness can exist without the brain. I don't believe that anybody has demonstrated consciousness with or without a certified dead brain. I do not believe that even you have demonstrated any 'conscious ability'. although I suspect that you and I are talking about different things when we refer to Consciousness. |
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