dayokanu:

^^ How much was spent on Arshavin or is that not recent enough?
Are you saying Arsenal cant afford one of the top 5 goalies in the world Hugo Lloris? How much did Chelsea buy Cech?,
Or Is Lyon richer than Arsenal or do they make more income?

In the past 12 years, Lyon has not done as well as Arsenal has done in Europe so there is no basis for comparison, different league different scenario. It is easy to conclude that a GK would have made a difference this season but I totally disagree that all the points we conceeded were due to GK errors e.g. A GK would not stop Diaby turning off when Watson was driving into the box.

On the whole our squad is young, that is true but not every one of our losses is down to youth, our competitors in this league are not Spurs or Villa, every other club we have outperformed every single season, the only ones who have beaten us hands down are Manure and Chelsea and we have nothing near their level of investments. Our strategy was to go for a youth system while patching up with bargain buys while our youth come through. They are now at the level where they should be winning things and I can't wait for that to start.

besides if you got a GK for 10m or 20m or whatever values are going about these days, that is one of Vermaelen or Arshavin you would probably not have bought.

@duduspace,
I remember David Dein once said Arsene had any amount at his disposal before he left:this was like 2007/08.

besides if you got a GK for 10m or 20m or whatever values are going about these days, that is one of Vermaelen or Arshavin you would probably not have bought.

The money spent on Ramsey or Walcot would have bought a decent goalkeeper

In the past 12 years, Lyon has not done as well as Arsenal has done in Europe so there is no basis for comparison, different league different scenario.

In the last 12 years Arsenal has played 2 CL semi and Lyon one. I h=cant see what much difference here.

In the last 12 seasons Arsenal have won some good games in the CL(Thats the only bright spot) like Milan, Madrid and Juve.
In the last 12 seasons Lyon has won some good games in the CL. Madrid, Liverpool, Bayern.

Both have not won the CL and giving where Arsenal was 12 years ago ( A top 2 side in England who just won the UEFA cup, compared to Lyon (Who were just a midtable team in France)

Definitely Arsenal has definitely fallen or Lyon has caught up with them.

The gap between Arsenal and Lyon in European pedigree as at 1997 ad the gap now has been narrowed(If there is even a gap)

duduspace:


besides if you got a GK for 10m or 20m or whatever values are going about these days, that is one of Vermaelen or Arshavin you would probably not have bought.

Utter falsehood - Wenger was again so FIXATED on his 'future' that he was bidding for Smalling in January, instead of FIXING the CURRENT problem of the side, lack of a decent goalkeeper. If Smalling rumoured to be sold at £7m could be bought in January, so we wouldn't be able to add £3m and buy a decent keeper?

If Wenger bought a goalie in January, that has ZERO implication on Vermaelen or Arshavin.

It is these weak and poorly thought out excuses you roll out that make me wonder if you truly understand what the problem is with this team and Wenger. He is FOREVER looking at the future and unable to look at what can be done to fix this team NOW. Instead of buying Chamakh now and giving us a fighting chance for the title, he was looking at the future, how he would get him for free and what happened? We couldn't score in the games that mattered, not against Villa, barely got one vs Utd and none against Chelski.

Wenger's eternal fixation on the future will be his downfall at this club - little changes that can turn things around are at his fingertips, yet he stubbornly clings on to his idealism.

As usual you don't get it.

To think of it that Wesley Sneijder cost $13m, yet dudu wants us to believe Arsenal doesnt have yet Smalling was bought for $11m.

dayokanu:

The money spent on Ramsey or Walcot would have bought a decent goalkeeper

Agreed it would have, Liverpool thot exactly that way and won some things like you say, they however can't get enough home grown players now and are bound to drop even further next year and Rafa says he needs 60m to be competitive. Ramsey and Walcott are massive talents, you keep on harping about a decent keeper, and you've not answered if all our problems would have been solved by having a good keeper as you say. Despite our not having a good keeper we were still in the title race with 3 games to go so our keepers couldn't have been so bad after all.

Liverpool have one of the best GKs in the league but where are they in the league table? they are even below us because their squad is even more unbalanced than ours. We don't need 60m to improve our squad as we've shown the strenght in depth of our squad already this season so there is no need to say more, our way is one that we are already benefitting from and are bound to benefit more from in the future.

There are so many other clubs who have good keepers like you say but are still nowhere near us, you are more intelligent than to oversimplify things. 100m spending differential over a 5 year period is a lot of money or 300m in the case of chelsea. With the level of investment Manure and chelsea put in, they could get instant quality and even to leave them on the bench, Berba probably costs more than our entire front line. we have had to grow most of ours and I see those 2 copying our system again after returning to reality. We will get there, it is only a matter of time.

As we bring players through, we are also bringing Goalkeepers through. Two of our reserve GKs are U21 internationals for Italy and Poland at present so we will also be strong in that department really soon, If you've been following the English league, you would have heard of Szczesney exploits at Brentford and being capped for Poland at 19 years of age.

debosky:

Utter falsehood - Wenger was again so FIXATED on his 'future' that he was bidding for Smalling in January, instead of FIXING the CURRENT problem of the side, lack of a decent goalkeeper. If Smalling rumoured to be sold at £7m could be bought in January, so we wouldn't be able to add £3m and buy a decent keeper?
If Wenger bought a goalie in January, that has ZERO implication on Vermaelen or Arshavin.

Stop harping on about this keeper thingy, the GK issue is not solely to be blamed for our not winning anything this season, YES we can have a better keeper, but what guarantees exactly do you have that any keeper bought in january would have done better than Almunia exactly? Yu're shouting about Given, but he's had his share of howlers this season only you wouldn't notice anyway because most of the matches you watch are Arsenal matches anyway and that skews your perception of how good or bad your keeper is.
Everyone has suddenly become an expert at judging keepers because we lost the PL with 3 games to go According to some people, half of a team that came third in the PL and got to the last 8 in the UCL should be sold off? how silly can people get?

debosky:

It is these weak and poorly thought out excuses you roll out that and make me wonder if you truly understand what the problem is with this team and Wenger. He is FOREVER looking at the future and unable to look at what can be done to fix this team NOW. Instead of buying Chamakh now and giving us a fighting chance for the title, he was looking at the future, how he would get him for free and what happened? We couldn't score in the games that mattered, not against Villa, barely got one vs Utd and none against Chelski.
Wenger's eternal fixation on the future will be his downfall at this club - little changes that can turn things around are at his fingertips, yet he stubbornly clings on to his idealism.
As usual you don't get it.

It is you who don't get it, I've provided facts and figures showing the changes in spending, yu lot never even had eyes to figure it out for yourself, I had talked of the change in spending post 2005 on this forum even before Sky brought out the figures. You were waiting for when the board and the manager would come out and tell you they cannot compete financially with the likes of Chelsea. How much clearer can someone be than Arsene's last statement about competing with Chelsea? yet all some people can read is the heading and jumping to the conclusion that we'll now go on a spending spree. I laugh in Kalabari.

On the very same soccernet page Wenger's statement were posted, the club chairman came out passing comments about financial controls and how it would help prevent unsustainable spending and some people still can't get a clue common sense really is very scarce.

Even sky who are generally anti arsenal and manure ass lickers were the first to bring out those figures showing the difference in spending.
What figures have you ever supplied? the only thing you can say is to shout the mantra "We haven't won anything in 6 years", how intellectually lazy can people get? no one even wants to figure out why exactly we've had to modify our strategy to compete. Have you ever thot of answers to this questions?

Why exactly have we prioritised the PL and UCL ahead of cup competitions?
Why exactly have we always chosen to play youngsters in the Carling Cup?
Why exactly do we expose our youngsters to high level competition early?
Why exactly do we go scouting round the world for talent and bring them in to the club before certain ages?

I have chosen to  trust a manager who has shown he can win in the past, has guided us through a potentially tricky time in our history and has set us on a successful and sustainable path and yu're telling me I don't get it,. when yu don't supply an alternative or at the most your alternative is to bring in a manager like Mourinho who demands for money the club doesnt have. Did you hear what he had to say when the idea of him managing Liverpool was mooted?

To be honest, I don't understand you anymore Debo, frankly speaking, I don't know what this doom and gloom mentality will achieve, over and above any misgivings you might have about Arsene, don't try rewriting history and downplaying what that man has achieved for us, it is cheap, lazy and is the very definition of mediocrity that you claim to abhor.

I'm beginning to tire of this discussions Debosky, I tire of explaining simple things. I hope the World Cup starts very soon so our attention can shift to following our players again.

Una still dey here dey argue who Professor of Trophylessness for buy?? A manager that had the chance to beef up the squad in January and blew it a man that sticks with tried and tested flops and insists on being pennywise and pound foolish since 2007 some of us have been on NL complaining bout the same damn thing but the only thing that has changed are the diapers on Wenger's babies?

A-40:

Una still dey here dey argue who Professor of Trophylessness for buy?? A manager that had the chance to beef up the squad in January and blew it a man that sticks with tried and tested flops and insists on being pennywise and pound foolish since 2007 some of us have been on NL complaining bout the same damn thing but the only thing that has changed are the diapers on Wenger's babies?

O ni fe fi Steven Wonder shey Van Der Sar now

No mind Wenger wey wan use Aiyefele play striker. Parading bunch of chokers who you can bet your mortgage on to crumble when it matters most! Seize the initiative they can't. . Hold on to leads they can't! A team loses a two goal cushion to Wigan in 10mins and end up losing that match knowing fully well that a win would launch them back in the title race mind you this same thing happened against Tottenham at the Emirates last season so this tells us of a team that doesn't learn from mistakes. Mediocrity is being worshipped at the Emirates its so rotten

A-40:

No mind Wenger wey wan use Aiyefele play striker. Parading bunch of chokers who you can bet your mortgage on to crumble when it matters most! Seize the initiative they can't. . Hold on to leads they can't! A team loses a two goal cushion to Wigan in 10mins and end up losing that match knowing fully well that a win would launch them back in the title race mind you this same thing happened against Tottenham at the Emirates last season so this tells us of a team that doesn't learn from mistakes. Mediocrity is being worshipped at the Emirates its so rotten

wetin aiyefele do u? this is the second time u are mentioning aiyefele.

Can someone tell Duduspace that he is just displaying his irritating ignorance the more?

Enuff of all these theories abeg, sustainability my foot!

If ENYEAMA was French he would have brought in him d summer window, but the Ijebuman no wan pay common 2M GBP for my countryman that has WC experience (ask Paul Scholes) something no current Arsenal goalie can boast of!

It's appalling the levels Arsenal fans have been reduced to. Arsenal is not a global brand today because of it's youth policy or thrifty management, those ideologies arose as a means of ensuring that the success at the club was sustained. If those models cannot bear fruit after all this time it means either the model or the people effecting it have failed.
Arsenal was a successful club even before Wenger arrived, entering two consecutive European finals in 94 and 95 winning the first final. Arsenal were not in crisis before Wenger cos our last title before he arrived was in 91 not to mention FA and League cup victories just two years after that, the fact that we are even here discussing this issue means there's something wrong.
Arsenal made Wenger and not the other way around, whether it's Wenger that's on that seat or not Arsenal'll still be a big fish in England after all it was after his arrival that we relinquished our second position in league title wins to Man U.

This is my 1000th post, I was saving it to say this words FINALLY ARSENAL HAS WON THE LEAGUE!!! Sadly that is not so. So well I'm going to cash my reality pay check.

However it is sad to note that in the last few days onky one Arsenal fan thinks it important to see anything good about his team. Kudos to Debo was has put in rational arguments on the counter. However a whole lot of people feel insulting Duduspace is the best way to show him his folly in his beliefs. NL na wa o!!!

Dudu I am with you jare. A few bad game sdoes not necessatily mean a bad team, however I am as frustrated about this whole thign than anybody. I believed very much so I had a pre-season bet we were going to win the league. Now I may be out of a coupla thous. I looked at the squad and concluded we have come of age, no youth excuses. I looked at the squad, good cover as i llooked round, no lack of numbers excuses. Early season we were pressing the balls, scoring goals, even losing gallantly, no commitment issues.

So what the hell happened. Where are all this things that made me confident pre-season. This guys should wake the fork up and get their spirit back. If they cant Arsene should make changes, end-off. Oh by the way, even if Almunia shack methylated spirit, that nucca shouldnt be in post for me next season. I have seen enough!!!

Slim,

The quicker DUDU realises that NO ONE on here is buying his "finacial times" posts on the Arsenal stock Market, the better . . .If all that cash & talk of "besting" Chelsea in the transfer market CAN'T result in bringing in players that can win things, then bleep it!   I'm an Arsenal fan to a fault but seeing this team fail time and time again calls for REALLY serious step-ups on all fronts. This could have been the season we won the premiership but "In Arsene we trust. . .Screwed UP!" when we needed his better sense of judgment the most.

Lets face it,those boys don't have a winning mentality,lack the fighting spirit the "Invincibles" showed back then, I mean what team in this day and age PRACTICALLY try to pass the ball into the net? You play for 90mins+ and your shots on goal is just 3-5 per game ? (When RVP is MIA).

Yes, we've been written off already on so many occasions, isn't it time those boys stepped-up and prove the bookmakers and critics wrong? Are we still "top 4" material?Is there EVEN a top 4?

At least we now know why Arshavin was running his mouth about the lack of depth in this squad.We can't EVEN challenge for the Carling Cup,isn't THAT woeful for a club with a "top 4" reputation?

We keep talking about long-term development, isn't 5 seasons enough?

Well this season's over, next season's almost here. . Lets see what AW does in the transfer window

Whilst at it, u can suck DUDU's spunk!!!

Peeps like me would take it personal cos u all uttered balderdash when I told u AW was the major undoing of d team and u were dancing ijo yoyo around my posts, spewing unmitigated hokum when I TOLD Y'all 2 stop ur speaking in tongue aberration!

How time flies . . .the twerp dudu sef dey yarn okpata talk say "DR KIT HAS BEEN SOUNDING REASONABLY RECENTLY"

what an obolangido!!!

Dr Kitaun:

Can someone tell Duduspace that he is just displaying his irritating ignorance the more?

Enuff of all these theories abeg, sustainability my foot!

If ENYEAMA was French he would have brought in him d summer window, but the Ijebuman no wan pay common 2M GBP for my countryman that has WC experience (ask Paul Scholes) something no current Arsenal goalie can boast of!

Can someone tell Dr. Kit to contribute meaningfully to debate and stop belly aching over what he can do nothing about?    and if you continue with those insults as above I reserve the right to respond at a time of my own choosing. I hope you know I'm Yoruba born and bred. I have bigger fish to fry at present so I don't have your time, you can kindly speak to the hand.

edoyad:

It's appalling the levels Arsenal fans have been reduced to. Arsenal is not a global brand today because of it's youth policy or thrifty management, those ideologies arose as a means of ensuring that the success at the club was sustained. If those models cannot bear fruit after all this time it means either the model or the people effecting it have failed.
Arsenal was a successful club even before Wenger arrived, entering two consecutive European finals in 94 and 95 winning the first final. Arsenal were not in crisis before Wenger cos our last title before he arrived was in 91 not to mention FA and League cup victories just two years after that, the fact that we are even here discussing this issue means there's something wrong.
Arsenal made Wenger and not the other way around, whether it's Wenger that's on that seat or not Arsenal'll still be a big fish in England after all it was after his arrival that we relinquished our second position in league title wins to Man U.

The fact that something is wrong is not in contention Edoyad, the puzzle is to find out what exactly is wrong? unfortunately noise and belly aching seems more popular than cold facts and sense.
As to Arsenal's history, I'll get you more info showing that what you say is not completely true. That Arsenal made Arsene is never in question, if he was not given the opportunity, he couldn't have done anything anyway.
But Arsene has taken Arsenal to a whole new level of global prominence without sacrificing the core principles of the club, You might want to read up the book "Arsenal: The making of a modern Superclub" to get more information.

Here is a quote about Arsenal's history Pre and post Wenger from someone who has been supporting Arsenal for quite a while:

[Quote]
The only way you can judge Wenger is by comparing him with what went before.

How long should you go back? I’ll take my lifetime which is long enough (I’m feeling old today). I’m 43, born in 1966. Wenger took over in 1996.

In the first 30 years of my life we won:

3 League Titles
1 Cup-Winners Cup
1 Fairs Cup
3 FA Cups
2 League Cups
In 14 years of Wenger we have won

3 League titles
4 FA Cups
In the third of my life where Wenger has been boss, he has won almost as much as we won in the other two thirds.

But this doesn’t tell the whole story. He has yet to win a European trophy, but the trophies we won in Europe in the past were always the lower prizes. He has only competed in one UEFA Cup (excluding his first game in charge) and he was just a penalty shoot-out away from winning the trophy. Every other year we have been fighting against the biggest clubs in the world – and only one can win.
[/quote]

duduspace:

The fact that something is wrong is not in contention Edoyad, the puzzle is to find out what exactly is wrong? unfortunately noise and belly aching seems more popular than cold facts and sense.
As to Arsenal's history, I'll get you more info showing that what you say is not completely true. That Arsenal made Arsene is never in question, if he was not given the opportunity, he couldn't have done anything anyway.
But Arsene has taken Arsenal to a whole new level of global prominence without sacrificing the core principles of the club, You might want to read up the book "Arsenal: The making of a modern Superclub" to get more information.

Here is a quote about Arsenal's history Pre and post Wenger from someone who has been supporting Arsenal for quite a while:

dudu what about Arsenal's history is wrong in my post ? That we were in two consecutive european finals 94 and 95 or that we won 3 domestic titles in the 90s before Wenger ?

But Arsene has taken Arsenal to a whole new level of global prominence

dudu, that Arsenal has global prominence cannot in any way be linked to Wenger but to the Barclays English Premiere league as a whole and the English FA. Is there any top 7 English club today that is not a known brand around the globe ? If we owe that to any manager then it would Alex Ferguson and his 99 squad.

edoyad:

dudu what about Arsenal's history is wrong in my post ? That we were in two consecutive european finals 94 and 95 or that we won 3 domestic titles in the 90s before Wenger ?

dudu, that Arsenal has global prominence cannot in any way be linked to Wenger but to the Barclays English Premiere league as a whole and the English FA. Is there any top 7 English club today that is not a known brand around the globe ? If we owe that to any manager then it would Alex Ferguson and his 99 squad.

Fair enough, you can hold those views, 2 people hardly see things in the same way. But here is our winner and run up history domestically, I'll divide it into 14 years before Arsene and 14 years after Arsene and we'll then check if your Theory as to Arsene's influence holds through. That is in the period (1982- Present)



                                  Pre-Wenger                                   Post-Wenger

Premier league

Winners:                 1988–89, 1990–91, (2)                        1997–98, 2001–02, 2003–04 (3)

Runners-up:                    0                                                 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2004–05 (5)



FA Cup
Winners:                    1993, (1)                                                   1998, 2002, 2003, 2005 (4)
Runners-up:                  (0)                                                         2001 (1)


UEFA Champions League/Champion's Cup
Runners-up                     (0)                                                      2005–06 (1)

European Cup Winners' Cup
Winners:                        1994 (1)                                                  (0)
Runners-up:                   1995 (1)                                                  (0)

UEFA Cup
Runners-up:                    (0)                                                          2000 (1)


Looking at these figures, can you in all honesty claim that this man has not improved the club In the years before Arsene, we were at best a mid-table club without even Aston Villa and Norwich City's pedigree in Europe, Arsene has transformed us into a club that has never dropped out of the top 4 during his tenure. Despite the massive differential in spending by other members of that elite category.

duduspace:

Looking at these figures, can you in all honesty claim that this man has not improved the club In the years before Arsene, we were at best a mid-table club without even Aston Villa and Norwich City's pedigree in Europe, Arsene has transformed us into a club that has never dropped out of the top 4 during his tenure. Despite the massive differential in spending by other members of that elite category.

The team Wenger won his first league title with IS not his team.
He inherited a good team so kindly strike out 97/98 from his list of little achievement.
To put in a clearer picture, Wenger inherited the defence of Keown, Dixon, Tony Adams, Steve Bould and Nigel Winterburn.
Besides that, there was a world class Dennis Bergkamp and Ian Wright in the attack.

~Sauron~:

The team Wenger won his first league title with IS not his team.
He inherited a good team so kindly strike out 9798 from his list of little achievement.
To put in a clearer picture, Wenger inherited the defence of Keown, Dixon, Tony Adams, Steve Bould and Nigel Winterburn.
Besides that, there was a world class Dennis Bergkamp and Ian Wright in the attack.

And what exactly did that team win before Arsene's arrival? how much were world class players going for then and now? what is the effect of the over 300m that Chelsea has poured into their team since then or the 100m you lot have poured into yours since then? while we payed for our stadium?
Arsenal has a plan, it hasn't worked yet true enough but work it will. It is a testament to Arsene's genius that we've even remained competitive at all just look at Valencia who have also built a stadium in recent times, they had trouble to even pay player's salaries.
We are almost out of the woods, be VERY, VERY, VERY afraid.

~Sauron~:

The team Wenger won his first league title with IS not his team.
He inherited a good team so kindly strike out 97/98 from his list of little achievement.

In other words. . . .
97/98 season-EPL winner-Arsenal
Manager-UNKNOWN

Dr Kitaun:

Whilst at it, u can suck DUDU's spunk!!!
Peeps like me would take it personal cos u all uttered balderdash when I told u AW was the major undoing of d team and u were dancing ijo yoyo around my posts, spewing unmitigated hokum when I TOLD Y'all 2 stop your speaking in tongue aberration!
How time flies . . .the twerp dudu sef dey yarn okpata talk say "DR KIT HAS BEEN SOUNDING REASONABLY RECENTLY"
what an obolangido!!!

Ha the good doctor, na why i dey like him post, no dey fork around like Tiger Woods, straight to the point like a$hawo for Obalende .

Anyways egbon, free that matter, whats with a litle bit of dementia at a time when things were looking bad. Even Debo said if you cant beat them you join them. Its all done and dusted now. We gotta look forward.

@Dr Kit
Ijo Yoyo? LWKMD Hehehe no be Kollington be that? I still dey nursery school when that song dey reign

@Dudu
So how many more trophyless seasons do we give Wenger? 5,10,15 or more realistically does the board renew his expiring contract if 'Trophyless' enters season 6? You say fans are bellyaching! If they don't bellyache now then when? Season 10 or 15. If Arsene had picked up one or two cups would he have been under any duress? Ask yourself what won him such cult status in the first place was it his accent or his long nose?

Dudu see the conclusion of the matter is this. We went through this harrowing route so that we can be financially sustainable. Which means we can make expenses and not have to bother about it biting us in the a$$.

Well, are we there yet. Cos if we arent, its quite a loooong time. If we are, then we have to make those expenses to get some quality in. It is not bellyaching to request that we have more quality between the sticks is it. The reason I dont advocate spend and spend is cos there are some things money cant buy. Money cant buy you dedication and spirit. Fork it money cant even buy the health of your players.

But I'll be damned if money cant buy you a player a notch in quality above what you have. Again are we there yet? I have bled for this passion i believe in I will hate to have penny pinching make it be all in vain.

Yes Ke Slim, and to be honest, I expect our spending to increase as things get better. It is now a balancing act with what these boys have done this season. I expect an increased level of spending this season and I don't expect us to sell anybody (except if we get an offer we can't refuse like say, anything above 60m for Cesc which we would reinvest in bringing in like for like quality immediately) If there is variation in any of these, honestly who na neva see person wey go kick off storm.

My views on the Summer:

Chamakh might just turn out to be for us what Tevez was for Manure in terms of getting free transfers. We already have the striker thingy sorted now, if Bendtner who will drop to 3rd choice can score 9 goals in 11 games, then we're spoilt for choice in that area, and I do expect Vela to step up and not be content with number 4 striker status. Maybe a fruitful World cup campaign will be the wake up call he needs.

We still have another 15-25m to invest I would guess and if we offload some dead wood in the squad we will have another 5 to 10 million and with Arsene's shrewedness in the Market, I would expect us to get in at least a quality CB and a quality CM to provide competition in those places. I personally would go for Szczesney as our new GK but I'm not under the pressure Arsene is, so he probably will opt to shell out for a new keeper but I can assure you that boy is quality and I expect him to become Poland's number 1 in the next 2 years, just ask Brentford fans who have been asking how come we allowed him go on loan to them while fielding Almunia.

I'll review again come august and give my verdict, this club is so close now, I don't see Chelsea spending another 100m neither do I see Manure doing much in the summer with what they've done already (which I personally can't see improving their squad much as we have better players than they've recently got from the market) so if we improve our squad, there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to compete better than this season. The likes of Giggs and Scholes were still the difference for Manure when it came to crunch time and they had always been winners even from the time we had our invincibles. Apart from Gibson and Rafael, none of their other youngsters really had significant playing time for us to judge them as our youngsters have been judged (and people forget Gibson is actually the same age as Cesc/Song/Bendtner but is still a bit part player for Manure). The likes of Sturridge and Kakuta for Chelsea never really got going and came up short when called upon.

Also one thing I think Arsene needs to look at is the rotation of the squad earlier on in the season, the way we've crawled over the finishing line this season in terms of injuries should give cause for concern and something has to be done about it, sort that out and sort out our defensive issues in the big games and I can assure you another invincible season might just be round the corner.

In the past 12 years, Lyon has not done as well as Arsenal has done in Europe so there is no basis for comparison

In the last 12 years Arsenal has played the CL semi twice and Lyon once Not much difference.

They have both beaten big teams Arsenal (Milan, Madrid etc) and Lyon has beaten (Madrid, Inter and Bayern)

At at 1996 The difference between Arsenal and Lyon was so big, Fast forward today, Lyon has caught up significantly because Arsenal under Wenger regressed

and how

dayokanu:

In the last 12 years Arsenal has played the CL semi twice and Lyon once Not much difference.

They have both beaten big teams Arsenal (Milan, Madrid etc) and Lyon has beaten (Madrid, Inter and Bayern)

At at 1996 The difference between Arsenal and Lyon was so big, Fast forward today, Lyon has caught up significantly because Arsenal under Wenger regressed

What a load of bull, can you supply the data that supports this? or yu're just making this up as you go? besides even if Lyon have advanced what business is it of mine? as long as my club has progressed what business is it of mine what Lyon has or has not done?

A-40:

@Dudu
So how many more trophyless seasons do we give Wenger? 5,10,15 or more realistically does the board renew his expiring contract if 'Trophyless' enters season 6? You say fans are bellyaching! If they don't bellyache now then when? Season 10 or 15. If Arsene had picked up one or two cups would he have been under any duress? Ask yourself what won him such cult status in the first place was it his accent or his long nose?

To be honest, I don't know but  everything definitely has its limits. I personally would still give Arsene at least 2 more seasons but that is something for the custodians of the club to decide. I'll review the squad we start with next season and make a decision then.

The most critical thing at present is not to lose the important players who have contributed this season (and yes included in that list are the likes of Diaby and Denilson but more importantly RVP, Cesc, Song, Vermaelen and Bendtner who doesn't get enough credit for what he has done for the team maybe our story could have been different  if he was fit during the time we had to play Arshavin and Eduardo).

After that comes strenghtening the squad and perfecting the strategy to pace ourselves such that we remain competitive all through the season. What I would dread and pray fervently against this summer is to lose players again like we did after the 07/08 season.