@backslider,

brother.

Am working on your last post when this one came in and as such will attend to it.

Posted by: Backslider
correction of my last post on this thread
I have spent my time to Quote your own Quran that you did not even quote and You just pick and Chose. You said Abraham was not a first Muslim Oh. But he was a Muslim Abi According to your books. Was he be fore Abraham or After Abraham?

**I have spent my time to Quote your own Quran that you did not even quote and You just pick and Chose. You said Abraham was not a first Muslim Oh. But he was a Muslim Abi According to your books. Was he be fore MOSES or After MOSES?

Please take of this correction

Was Abraham's generation the same as that of Moses'?
Was Noah's generation the same as that of Muhammed?

I have answered you, you just have to read and concentrate dear brother.
All prophets except Muhammed (saw) were sent to their people. They were the first to be believers among their community. They came and preached to their people to accept Islam. I have explained below.

Happy reading

I have explained but will still explain. There is nothing like contradiction in all the verses. Now lets see all the verses

Posted by: Backslider
I have spent my time to Quote your own Quran that you did not even quote and You just pick and Chose. You said Abraham was not a first Muslim Oh. But he was a Muslim Abi According to your books. Was he be fore Abraham or After Abraham?

Some questions for you here

Was Abraham's generation the same as Muhammed's (saw)
Was Moses' generation the same as Abraham's

[b]Posted by: Backslider
They were both of the same people. [/b]

Same people, how? Are they of the same generation?

You said "and be not thou of the company of those who join gods with Allah." means "Amongst his people", Was paganism only practiced amongst the quarish people did we not have Jew persians and even Xtians those times.

Mind you brother, earlier christians were given freedom to practice their religion.

Let me give you example

Around the 4th year of Hijrah, the Holy Prophet granted to the monks of the Monastry of St. Catherine, near Mount Sinai, his liberal charter by which they secured for the Christians noble and generous privileges and immunities. He undertook himself and enjoined his followers, to protect the Christians, to defend their churches and the residences of their priests and to guard them from all injuries.

They were not to be unfairly taxed; no bishop was to be driven out of his diocese; nor Christian was to be forced to reject his religion; no monk was to be expelled from his Monastry; no pilgrim was to be stopped from his pilgrimage; nor were the Christian churches to be pulled down for the sake of building mosques or houses for the Muslims.

Christian women married to Muslims were to enjoy their own religion and not to be subjected to compulsion or annoyance of any kind. If the Christians should stand in need of assistance for the repair of their churches or monasteries, or any other matter pertaining to their religion, the Muslims were to assist them. This was not to be considered as supporting their religion, but as simply rendering them assistance in special circumstances.

Posted by: Backslider
Ah My brother be Honest in your Submission Did this "Amongst his people" apply to the Other In The Surat I quoted?

Dear brother, I have been telling you the truth and nothing but the truth but its you that do not understand me.

Hope you have seen my quote above for christians. prophet Muhammed (saw) was the first to be muslim among his people. Read the below too

When Holy prophet Muhammed (saw) received the first revelation, he was afraid and ran to his wife Khadijah. The next day his wife arose and went to her cousin Waraqa Ibn Naufal, who was old and blind and who knew the Scriptures of the Jews and Christians.

When she told him of what she had heard, he cried out: "Holy! Holy! Verily, this is the Namus (The Holy Spirit) who came to Moses. He will be the prophet of his people. Tell him this and bid him to be brave at heart." When the two men met subsequently in the street, the blind old student of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures (Waraqa) spoke of his faith and trust: "I swear by Him in Who hand Waraqa's life is, Allah has chosen you to be the prophet of this people. They will call you a liar, they will persecute you, they will banish you, and they will fight against you. Oh, that I could live to those days. I would fight for these." And he kissed him on the forehead.

The above shows that he was the first muslim among his people through the revelation he received.

The below verse also shows that he was the first muslim among hs people that other prophets' people perished ,

Quran 50: 12-14

v12: Denied before them (i.e these pagans of Meccah) the people of Noah and the dwellers of Rass and Thamud

v13: and Ad and Pharaoah and the brethren of Lot.

v14: And the dwellers of the wood and the people of Tubba. Everyone of them denied (THEIR) MESSENGERS, so my threat took effect.

Did you see the above. All prophets were sent to their people and were the first to always accept Islam. Abraham was the first muslim during his time, Moses was the first among his people while the Holy Prophet too (Peace be on all of them) was the first muslim among his Ummah.


Posted by: Backslider
You have not done anything but Used The First One to About Muhamed to Explain the Other where it was NEVER STATED In the verse that "Amongst his people", This I think is Dishonesty.  

Ok see

The Verse of moses comes After the verse of Muhamed 6 and 7.

If you read the next post you will see

Brother, another thing you dont know is that, the verses were not arranged according to how they were revealed.


[b]Posted by: Backslider
Quran 7: 54 Your gurdian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days[/b]

The above says heavens and earth in 6 days, meaning the creation of both the heavens and earth including everything attaching to the two.


[b][b]Posted by: Backslider [/b]
Quran 10: 3 Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days[/b]

Same as in the above


Posted by: Backslider
Quran 11:7 He it is Who created the heavens and earth in Six Days
Quran-25:29: He Who created the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days

Just like the above.


[b]Posted by: Backslider
The above verses clearly state that God created the heaven and Allah created the heaven and the Earth in 6 days. But the verses below stated-[/b]

Ok, lets see


[b]Posted by: Backslider
Quran 41: 9 Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?[/b]

My brother, try to understand please. The above says that Allah created the earth (mind you, no heaven mentioned in the above verse) in 2 days.


[b]Posted by: Backslider
Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…[/b]

I proceed. Allah says He created what we have in the earth i.e mountains and bestowing blessings in four days.

The first verse is on the creation of earth alone which was 2 days
The second on the creation of earth INCLUDING  mountains etc was 4 days.

While the totality of the creation of both the earth and what we have in the earth i.e. mountains made up the four days.


[b]Posted by: Backslider
Quran 41: 12 So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …[/b]

Brother, the creation of heaven took 2 days (mind earth was not involved here). The above was for only heaven.

[b]Posted by: Backslider
Now do the math: 2(for earth) + 4(for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days[/b]

The small maths I know I can say this is a Contradiction

No contradiction sir.

This is the simple mathematics.

The totality of the creation of earth along with the mountains made up the four days. The creation of earth alone of is 2 days, while the inclusion of mountains etc took 2 days making four while that of heavens took another 2 days making total of 6. Let me analyse it for you below

Creation of only earth  = 2 (without mountains etc)
Creation of mountains and other blessings = 2+2 = 4

Note: Creation of only the earth took 2 days while that of the blessings in it took another two days making up = 4 days
The creation of heavens took 2 days, making up 4 + 2 = 6 days in all.

Salam

@backslider,

brother.

Am working on your last post when this one came in and as such will attend to it.

Posted by: Backslider
correction of my last post on this thread
[b]I have spent my time to Quote your own Quran that you did not even quote and You just pick and Chose. You said Abraham was not a first Muslim Oh. But he was a Muslim Abi According to your books. Was he be fore Abraham or After Abraham?

**I have spent my time to Quote your own Quran that you did not even quote and You just pick and Chose. You said Abraham was not a first Muslim Oh. But he was a Muslim Abi According to your books. Was he be fore MOSES or After MOSES?

Please take of this correction

Was Abraham's generation the same as that of Moses'?
Was Noah's generation the same as that of Muhammed?

I have answered you, you just have to read and concentrate dear brother.
All prophets except Muhammed (saw) were sent to their people. They were the first to be believers among their community. They came and preached to their people to accept Islam. I have explained below.

Happy reading

I have explained but will still explain. There is nothing like contradiction in all the verses. Now lets see all the verses

Posted by: Backslider
[b]I have spent my time to Quote your own Quran that you did not even quote and You just pick and Chose. You said Abraham was not a first Muslim Oh. But he was a Muslim Abi According to your books. Was he be fore Abraham or After Abraham?

Some questions for you here

Was Abraham's generation the same as Muhammed's (saw)
Was Moses' generation the same as Abraham's

Posted by: Backslider
They were both of the same people.

Same people, how? Are they of the same generation?

Posted by: Backslider
[b]You said "and be not thou of the company of those who join gods with Allah." means "Amongst his people", Was paganism only practiced amongst the quarish people did we not have Jew persians and even Xtians those times.

Mind you brother, earlier christians were given freedom to practice their religion.

Let me give you example

Around the 4th year of Hijrah, the Holy Prophet granted to the monks of the Monastry of St. Catherine, near Mount Sinai, his liberal charter by which they secured for the Christians noble and generous privileges and immunities. He undertook himself and enjoined his followers, to protect the Christians, to defend their churches and the residences of their priests and to guard them from all injuries.

They were not to be unfairly taxed; no bishop was to be driven out of his diocese; nor Christian was to be forced to reject his religion; no monk was to be expelled from his Monastry; no pilgrim was to be stopped from his pilgrimage; nor were the Christian churches to be pulled down for the sake of building mosques or houses for the Muslims.

Christian women married to Muslims were to enjoy their own religion and not to be subjected to compulsion or annoyance of any kind. If the Christians should stand in need of assistance for the repair of their churches or monasteries, or any other matter pertaining to their religion, the Muslims were to assist them. This was not to be considered as supporting their religion, but as simply rendering them assistance in special circumstances.

Posted by: Backslider
Ah My brother be Honest in your Submission Did this "Amongst his people" apply to the Other In The Surat I quoted?

Dear brother, I have been telling you the truth and nothing but the truth but its you that do not understand me.

Hope you have seen my quote above for christians. prophet Muhammed (saw) was the first to be muslim among his people. Read the below too

When Holy prophet Muhammed (saw) received the first revelation, he was afraid and ran to his wife Khadijah. The next day his wife arose and went to her cousin Waraqa Ibn Naufal, who was old and blind and who knew the Scriptures of the Jews and Christians.

When she told him of what she had heard, he cried out: "Holy! Holy! Verily, this is the Namus (The Holy Spirit) who came to Moses. He will be the prophet of his people. Tell him this and bid him to be brave at heart." When the two men met subsequently in the street, the blind old student of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures (Waraqa) spoke of his faith and trust: "I swear by Him in Who hand Waraqa's life is, Allah has chosen you to be the prophet of this people. They will call you a liar, they will persecute you, they will banish you, and they will fight against you. Oh, that I could live to those days. I would fight for these." And he kissed him on the forehead.

The above shows that he was the first muslim among his people through the revelation he received.

The below verse also shows that he was the first muslim among hs people that other prophets' people perished ,

Quran 50: 12-14

v12: Denied before them (i.e these pagans of Meccah) the people of Noah and the dwellers of Rass and Thamud

v13: and Ad and Pharaoah and the brethren of Lot.

v14: And the dwellers of the wood and the people of Tubba. Everyone of them denied (THEIR) MESSENGERS, so my threat took effect.

Did you see the above. All prophets were sent to their people and were the first to always accept Islam. Abraham was the first muslim during his time, Moses was the first among his people while the Holy Prophet too (Peace be on all of them) was the first muslim among his Ummah.


Posted by: Backslider
[b]You have not done anything but Used The First One to About Muhamed to Explain the Other where it was NEVER STATED In the verse that "Amongst his people", This I think is Dishonesty.

Ok see

Posted by: Backslider
The Verse of moses comes After the verse of Muhamed 6 and 7.
If you read the next post you will see

Brother, another thing you dont know is that, the verses were not arranged according to how they were revealed.


[b]Posted by: Backslider
Quran 7: 54 Your gurdian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days[/b]

The above says heavens and earth in 6 days, meaning the creation of both the heavens and earth including everything attaching to the two.


[b][b]Posted by: Backslider [/b]
Quran 10: 3 Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days[/b]

Same as in the above


Posted by: Backslider
[b]Quran 11:7 He it is Who created the heavens and earth in Six Days
Quran-25:29: He Who created the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days[/b]

Just like the above.


[b]Posted by: Backslider
The above verses clearly state that God created the heaven and Allah created the heaven and the Earth in 6 days. But the verses below stated-[/b]

Ok, lets see


[b]Posted by: Backslider
Quran 41: 9 Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?[/b]

My brother, try to understand please. The above says that Allah created the earth (mind you, no heaven mentioned in the above verse) in 2 days.


[b]Posted by: Backslider
Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…[/b]

I proceed. Allah says He created what we have in the earth i.e mountains and bestowing blessings in four days.

The first verse is on the creation of earth alone which was 2 days
The second on the creation of earth INCLUDING mountains etc was 4 days.

While the totality of the creation of both the earth and what we have in the earth i.e. mountains made up the four days.


[b]Posted by: Backslider
Quran 41: 12 So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …[/b]

Brother, the creation of heaven took 2 days (mind earth was not involved here). The above was for only heaven.

[b]Posted by: Backslider
Now do the math: 2(for earth) + 4(for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days
[/b]

The small maths I know I can say this is a Contradiction

No contradiction sir.

This is the simple mathematics.

The totality of the creation of earth along with the mountains made up the four days. The creation of earth alone of is 2 days, while the inclusion of mountains etc took 2 days making four while that of heavens took another 2 days making total of 6. Let me analyse it for you below

Creation of only earth = 2 (without mountains etc)
Creation of mountains and other blessings = 2+2 = 4

Note: Creation of only the earth took 2 days while that of the blessings in it took another two days making up = 4 days
The creation of heavens took 2 days, making up 4 + 2 = 6 days in all.

Salam

Brother Babs,

I see that you have rewritten your Own new Quran Dont let them Issue a Fatwah on you (smile) What you have done is wrong oh ! The verses were cumulative oh please dont do this. I beg you my brother anyway I know I cannot win a Arguement to win your soul for Christ.

But I have made you look at your scripture and I can percieve your heart is beating relax brother.

If a number is mention 2 to create

Quran 41: 9 Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?  not four !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

After Verse 9 you have Verse 10 it even explained what he was doing for those 4 days he was puting finishing touches like a Bricklayer doing plaster and Nourishing the Earth bros admit it this is a Fundamental Error!!



you said

Some questions for you here

Was Abraham's generation the same as Muhammed's (saw)
Was Moses' generation the same as Abraham's

You keep Shifting the Post this is not fair GENERATION AND HIS PEOPLE are different, Moses and Abraham are from the same peoples!!!##$#@@#$#@@@@@@?!!!!!!

you said

Brother, another thing you don't know is that, the verses were not arranged according to how they were revealed.

Brother it is either !!!!! you are purposely lying!!!!! or you have forgotten Go back to what you said about Abrogation and you Quoted The Surat to suport it


I rest my Case

@Backslider,

you said

Brother, another thing you don't know is that, the verses were not arranged according to how they were revealed.

Brother it is either !!!!! you are purposely lying!!!!! or you have forgotten Go back to what you said about Abrogation and you Quoted The Surat to suport it

Although there are many things that babs787 does that are way out of proportion, I don't think he was "purposely lying" in that statement. I may have missed the gist; but then it is true that the Suras of the Qur'an were not revealed in the chronological/chapter orders that appears in it today.

@backslider,

as you are inviting me to christ, am also inviting you to Islam.

I have explained in all the way I could.

Am telling you, the Quran were not arranged according to revelation. Mind you, we have the Mecca surahs and also Medinah surahs. You cant know more that I do.

Posted by: Backslider
But I have made you look at your scripture and I can percieve your heart is beating relax brother.

Far from that brother.

Posted by: Backslider
If a number is mention 2 to create

Quran 41: 9 Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?  not four !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

After Verse 9 you have Verse 10 it even explained what he was doing for those 4 days he was puting finishing touches like a Bricklayer doing plaster and Nourishing the Earth bros admit it this is a Fundamental Error!!

You are just very funny. Am even laughing here.  
Now the verse 9 says earth was created in two days. Here it was not stated that mountains and other blessings were created.

But Allah continues in other verse (10) that he created mountains and bestowing blessings for another 2 days, making four days.

He created earth in 2 days and mountains in another 2 days making 4 days in totality.

Allah created Heaven and Earth in six days.

The verses of 41:9-12 speak of overlapping actions in spans of four and two days each.

The adverbs are the keys to understanding this. The verses of 11 and 12 use the adverbs "thummah" and "fa" which imply consecutiveness of action.

Neither of these two, however, are used in verse 10 (the only one which mentions four days) which instead uses the adverb "wa" implying parallel, or "overlapping" actions.

In other words, the grammar tells us that the four days mentioned in 10 are a continuation of the two mentioned in verse 9. The four days of "measuring the earth's sustenance" refers to the two days of the creation of the earth in addition to the two days of the "spreading out of the earth's features".

Brother, even Eisten, the great mathematician cannot explain more than the way I have done.


To the other question
Posted by: Backslider
Some questions for you here

Was Abraham's generation the same as Muhammed's (saw)
Was Moses' generation the same as Abraham's

You keep Shifting the Post this is not fair GENERATION AND HIS PEOPLE are different,  Moses and Abraham are from the same peoples!!!##$#@@#$#@@@@@@?!!!!!!

Dear brother. The prophets had different generations and different people. There is always up thousand years before the coming of another prophet (after the demise of one). So, the people of the first prophet would have perished before the next prophet.

Or in the bible, can you bring out someone that met Abraham and Also Moses?

If the people of Abraham were the same as that of Moses, there wouldnt be any need introducing God to them. But we all know that during Moses' time, it was the Egyptian that became muslims after moses. They never believed in God.

Now you said Abraham and Moses were from the same people, can you explain that please?

Salam

babs787:

Now you said Abraham and Moses were from the same people, can you explain that please?

They belong to the same covenant lineage known as the Jews.

@ Poster,
You have wrote a lot,but to reply to yuur post i will break your words into stages and answer to it, though we are all learning as a new generation

As that is the case, what the Christians claim about the Gospels stating that Jesus is the son of God and that God is his father –exalted be Allaah above having a son or a wife – does not count as any kind of proof against us, because we believe that that is something that was fabricated by human beings, and it is not part of the religion of Jesus (peace be upon him) or the religion of any other Messenger.

"Sons of God" according to Judaism
In the Tanakh, the phrase "son(s) of God" has multiple meanings:
The Hebrew phrase Benei Elohim, often translated as "sons of God", describes angels or immensely powerful human beings. See Genesis 6:2-4 and Book of Job 1:6. Many Bible scholars believe that this reflects usage in pre-Biblical near-eastern mythology.
It is used to denote a human judge or ruler (Psalm 82:6, "children of the Most High"; in many passages "gods" and "judges" seem to be equations). In a more specialized sense, "son of God" is a title applied only to the real or ideal king over Israel (II Samuel 7: 14, with reference to King David and those of his descendants who carried on his dynasty; comp. Psalm 89:27, 28).
Israel as a people is called God's "son", using the singular form (comp. Exodus 4: 22 and Hosea 11:1).
In the Tanakh the term itself does not connote any form of physical descent from, or unity of essence with, God. The Hebrew idiom conveys an expression of holyness (=to be special) or great power.
In Judaism the term "son of God" is rarely used in the sense of "messiah, or anointed ones." Psalm 2 refers to God's appointed king of Zion as both God's messiah (an anointed king) and like a son of God.
In Judaism, it is through such personal relations that the individual becomes conscious of God's fatherhood, and gradually in Hellenistic and rabbinical literature "sonship to God" was ascribed first to every Israelite and then to every member of the human race (Abot 3:15, 5:20; Ber. 5:1; see Abba). In one midrash, the Torah is poetically said to be God's "daughter", (Leviticus Rabbah 20); - the Shabbat is said to be a queen.
The New Testament uses "Son of God" to refer to Jesus and to a larger body of followers of Jesus. Because there was no explanation of the former, interpretations have abounded including, but not limited to, the following.
In the Gospel of John, the author writes that "to all who believed him and accepted him [Jesus], he gave the right to become children of God" [John 1:12] and repeats this in [3:1]. In like manner, numerous other passages of the New Testament refer to believers achieving a relationship as a "son of God". (Mat 12:50; Rom 8:14-19; 1Jo 3:1-2; Phl 2:15; Gal 3:26) It is common to hear Christians refer to "children of God", and likewise, "the Heavenly Father" (God).
In modern English usage
In modern English usage, the Son of God is almost always a reference to Jesus Christ in religious contexts. In other contexts it may be taken as one sex of the children of god, which connotates all humankind on earth.

This usage of the word “son” in the language of the Bible is a metaphor for the righteous servant of God, without it implying anything special or unique about the way in which he is created, or describing him literally as the offspring of God. Hence John says:
“How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God!”
[1 John 3:1]
For the same reason Adam is also called a son of God – exalted be Allaah far above that.
There remains the issue of Eesa (peace be upon him) being described as a son of God, and what they fabricated about the Lord of the Worlds, saying that He was the father of the Messiah (peace be upon him). This too is not unique in the language of the Gospels

One of the most incredible types of evidence is the testimony of prophecy. The Old Testament contains a number of messianic prophecies made centuries before Christ appeared on the earth. The fact that He fulfilled each one is powerful testimony that He was no ordinary man. Allow me to illustrate this point using eight prophecies.
The Uniqueness of Jesus
Genesis 12:1-3 states the Messiah would come from the seed of Abraham.
Genesis 49:10 states that He would be of the tribe of Judah.
2 Samuel 7:12 states that Messiah would be of the line of King David.
Micah 5:2 states that He would be born in the city of Bethlehem.
Daniel 9:24 states He would die or be "cut off" exactly 483 years after the declaration to reconstruct the temple in 444 B.C.
Isaiah 53 states that the Messiah would die with thieves, then be buried in a richman's tomb.
Psalm 22:16 states upon His death His hands and His feet would be pierced. This is quite significant since Roman crucifixion had not been invented at the time the Psalmist was writing.
Isaiah 49:7 states that Messiah would be known and hated by the entire nation. Not many men become known by their entire nation, and even less are despised by the entire nation.
Now calculate the possibility of someone fulfilling these by coincidence.

Professor Stadlin says: The entire Gospel of John was written by one of the students of the Alexandrian school. One sect, in the second century, rejected this Gospel and everything that was attributed to John.

The Gospel of John is the fourth gospel in the canon of the New Testament, traditionally ascribed to John the Evangelist. Like the three synoptic gospels, it contains an account of some of the actions and sayings of Jesus, but differs from them in ethos and theological emphases. The purpose is expressed in the conclusion, 20:30-31: ", these [Miracles of Jesus] are written down so you will come to believe that Jesus is the Anointed, God's son — and by believing this have life in his name.
According to Trinitarianism, (see also Trinitarianism— Scripture and tradition), of the four gospels, John presents the highest christology, implicitly declaring Jesus to be God.
Compared to the synoptics, John focuses on Jesus' cosmic mission to redeem humanity over the earthly mission to teach, cast out demons (which is not mentioned), and comfort the poor.

The Bible in which it says that the Messiah is the son of God is the same Bible in which the lineage of the Messiah ends with Adam (peace be upon him), and he too is described as a son of God.

Jesus as messiah
That "son of God" sometimes means messiah (an anointed person rather than a "godly person" in the New Testament, is also acknowledged in the Bauer lexicon, a dictionary of Koine Greek begun by Walter Bauer. This is supported by the references to the Messiah as son of God in the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha (see above).
In the first century, Messiah was a political office. The New Testament might threaten the political authority of caesar who also took the title "Son of God" as shown by ancient, Roman coinage.

“Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli … the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God”

Mt 1:1. THE BOOK (or record)
OF THE GENERATION (or genealogy) or ancestors—
OF JESUS CHRIST (the Messiah). Jesus is the Greek, Joshua is the Hebrew. Jesus is the Christ, which means the Savior, the Messiah, the Anointed or Anointed One.
Genesis, the first book of the Old Testament, begins with the creation of God. Matthew, the first book of the New Testament, begins with the ancestry of the Creator. The verse continues—
THE SON OF DAVID. The last person to sit upon the royal throne (Jechonias) was about 600 years previous to the birth of John the Baptist. Regardless, the Messiah still had to be of royal descent according to the prophecies. Jesus is called the Son of David, as David was His great, great, great, great-etc., grandfather. David’s name may be mentioned first, because the King that was to rule over the nation was to come through the lineage of David. Jesus is that King. Jesus is the OFFSPRING OF DAVID. Jesus is of the lineage of David both through Joseph and Mary. Thus He is called the Son of David. The Messiah had to come through the seed of Abraham, through the tribe of Judah, and through the seed of David.
JESUS IS CALLED
In the New Testament, Jesus is first called the SON OF DAVID in Mt 1:1. This gives Him the right to the throne of David.
In the New Testament, Jesus is first called the SON OF ABRAHAM in Mt 1:1. This gives Him the right to all of Israel.
In the New Testament, Jesus is first called the SON OF GOD in Mt 4:3. This gives Him the right to everything. He is the Heir of all things.
In the New Testament, Jesus is first called the SON OF MAN in Mt 8:20. This gives Him the right to all the earth.
The verse continues—
THE SON OF ABRAHAM. David is called the son of Abraham, as Abraham was his great, great, great, great, great-etc., grandfather.
Two covenants are alluded to here, the Davidic (2 Sam 7) and the Abrahamic (Gen 12, Gen 15).
Thus Matthew deals with the lineage of Jesus through Joseph, showing He is from the right ancestry. The legal right of Jesus to sit upon the throne of David as King needed to be established. His ancestry had to traced directly to the line of the throne of David through Solomon. This is an area that had to be dealt with to show that Jesus was the One to fulfill God’s covenant. Matthew dealt with this question in detail. Thus Son of David comes first followed by Son of Abraham.
If there had been any flaw in the genealogy of Jesus, as to His identification of being the Christ, the Pharisees or other religious leaders would have surely found it and pointed it out.

Christian theology
While individual books within the Christian Bible present narratives set in certain historical periods, most Christian denominations teach that the Bible itself has an overarching message.
There are among Christians wide differences of opinion as to how particular incidents as described in the Bible are to be interpreted and as to what meaning should be attached to various prophecies. However, Christians in general are in agreement as to the Bible's basic message. A general outline, as described by C.S. Lewis, is as follows:
At some point in the past, mankind learned to depart from God's will and began to sin.
Because no one is free from sin, humanity cannot deal with God directly, so God revealed Himself in ways people could understand.
God called Abraham and his progeny to be the means for saving all of mankind.
To this end, He gave the Law to Moses.
The resulting nation of Israel went through cycles of sin and repentance, yet the prophets show an increasing understanding of the Law as a moral, not just a ceremonial, force.
Jesus brought a perfect understanding of the Mosaic Law, that of love and salvation.
By His death and resurrection, all who believe are saved and reconciled to God.
Many people who identify themselves as Christians, Muslims, or Jews regard the Bible as inspired by God yet written by a variety of imperfect men over thousands of years. Belief in sacred texts is attested to in Jewish antiquity,and this belief can also be seen in the earliest of Christian writings. Various texts of the Bible mention Divine agency in relation to prophetic writings, the most explicit being: 2 Timothy 3:16: "All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice." In their book A General Introduction to the Bible, Norman Geisler and William Nix wrote: "The process of inspiration is a mystery of the providence of God, but the result of this process is a verbal, plenary, inerrant, and authoritative record."Some Biblical scholars,particularly Evangelicals, associate inspiration with only the original text; for example some American Protestants adhere to the 1978 Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy which asserted that inspiration applied only to the autographic text of Scripture

@babs787

This is where you have faultered again When the speaker in Quran41;9 spoke he did not say 4 he added the four in the consequent verse and Added what was done on this four no where did he state that he was creating on this day in that verse be truthful to yourself.

I sense that you Claim you know more than me I have not said that I know more than you I am not pumped up with Knowledge I am Humbled by It.

You must Know that In quran 41 ; 10 there is no verb of creating or making there.

Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed [/b]blessing on the earth, and [b]measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

set on

bestowed

measured


No where in Verse 10 it mentions Creation or Making

Your Application of Abrogation is not correct or it is only correct if it suites your belief system. I know You are reading and Asking Questions from people versed. People like you that fear nothing will Find the Truth May be not with me But with your Own conscience.

@domwas2,

Thanks a lot for that wonderful post.

Firstly, It will make some see that 'anointed' does not in any means what they might have been thinking as babs has tried explaining to them.

Secondly, the sonship of God is being used by the Jews for those that fear and do God's wish.

May God increases your knowledge.

@4 get me,

Quote from 4 get me
They belong to the same covenant lineage known as the Jews.

Can you show me in the bible where it says that Abraham and Moses were Jews?

ON ABRAHAM

If you cant find, I will help you out. Read Genesis 11v13
Genesis 11v13: And Terah took Abraham his son, and Lot the son of Haran, his son's son, and Sarai his daughter-in-law, his son Abram's wife, and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the Land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran and dwelt there.

Abraham who was born in Ur of Chaldees could not have been a Jew.

First, he couldnt have been born a Jew because Ur of Chaldees was in Mesopotamia which is now part of Iraq.He was then more an Arab than a Jew.

Secondly, the name "Jew" came after the existence of Judah, the great grandson of Abraham.

Read further
Genesis 12v4 and 5: , and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran, and into the Land of Canaan they came.

Abraham migrated to Canaan at the age of seventy-five and the bible made it known to us that he was a stranger there
Genesis 17v8: and i will give unto thee and to the seed after thee, the land wherein thou ART A STRANGER, all the Land of Canaan. For an everlasting possession.; and I will be their God.
And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew.

Hebrew means 'a man from the other side of the Euphrates'.

Abraham was a Hebrew. the descendants of Jacob were Israelites consisting of the twelve tribes. Judah was nicknamed 'jew' so that only Judah's descendant were called jews originally.

TO MOSES

To know if Moses was a Jew, please read
Exodus 6v16-20: and these are the names of the sons of LEVI according to their generations, Gherson, and Kohath, and Merari, and the sons of Kohath, Amram, and AMRAM TOOK HIM JOCHEBED HIS FATHER'S SISTER TO WIFE, AND SHE BARE HIM AARON AND MOSES.

Moses was not a Jew because he was not a descendant from Judah but a Levite.

@backslider

Dear brother,

Posted by: Backslider  
This is where you have faultered again When the speaker in Quran41;9 spoke he did not say 4 he added the four in the consequent verse and Added what was done on this four no where did he state that he was creating on this day in that verse be truthful to yourself.

Allah in that verse says earth was created in 2 days. Must God tell you that he added the 2 before you will believe.
Okay I will explain,

the earth was created in 2 days (verse 9). Only earth was created here. Its like buying a Land without the start of building the house.

Posted by: Backslider  
I sense that you Claim you know more than me I have not said that I know more than you I am not pumped up with Knowledge I am Humbled by It.

NO Brother, try to understand. What I mean there is that you cant know the Quran more than I do and doesnt mean that I am more knowledgeble than you do. But as far as Quran is concerned, you cant beat me to it. No man is an island.Learning continues till one dies.

[b]Posted by backslider
You must Know that In quran 41 ; 10 there is no verb of creating or making there.  

Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

Now to you what does set on, bestowed and measured mean?

To set on in lay man's language  is tp put something on another. 'He  set on the earth mountains'. meaning he created mountains on earth. No any meaning apart from that.Or what does set on means to you?

Bestowing can be termed to mean giving.
While measuring means to measure something. But here, note the word 'measured all things therein to give nourishment in due proportion.

He created the earth in 2 days, set upon it mountains and other blessings in another 2 days making total of 4 days. There is no better answer than the one I have given you.

Posted by backslider
No where in Verse 10 it mentions Creation or Making

But you read 'He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion'
Note the above verse is not present in verse 9. Verse 9 is for only creation while verse tells us the beautification of the earth.

Now if I say that I built my house in 6 days
Bought the land in 2days
Did the foundation, building etc in 4 days totality
Did the House warming in 2 days.

To you, will you say, I lied that I built my house in 6 days? No, it means that I did the purchase in 2 days, did the foundation, building in another 2 days making four and did the house warming in another 2 days making 6 days in all. Will you then diasgree with me?

Posted by backslider
Your Application of Abrogation is not correct or it is only correct if it suites your belief system. I know You are reading and Asking Questions from people versed. People like you that fear nothing will Find the Truth May be not with me But with your Own conscience.

Asking questions from people! Which people? No way sir.
Which of the application is not correct? You know I gave you instances for abrogation in another thread created by you. There, I listed some of the abrogatd verses in the Bible.

Posted by backslider
People like you that fear nothing will Find the Truth May be not with me But with your Own conscience.

Dear brother, Haba, I have explained everything to you now. There is no lie in my explanation. I pray that you see the truth very soon. It may not be through me but another person. You yourself know that I have not been quoting verses out of context or misquoting same. I have been backing my posts with biblical chapters and verses.

Till I hear from you.
But remember

Quran 3 v 85; And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of himanmd in the hereafter, he will be among the losers.

Brother, I dont want you to be. No prophet will come again. We are our prophets. The message has been preached and you will not say I didnt tell you.

A man will be asked concerning five things on the day of resurrection:

1. Concerning his life, how he spent it

2. Concerning his youth, how he grew old.

3. Concerning his wealth, whence he acquired it.

4. In what way he spent it and

5. What was it that he did with the knowledge that he has.


Also remember five things before 5 tings

1. Remember when you have time to worship God before you will have no time

2. Remember when you are young and energic to worship before your old age.

3. Remember when you are healthy to worship God before Sickness.

4. Remember When you are affluent before Poverty

5. Remember when you still have live to worship God before death

Aword is enough for the wise

Maa Salam

@4 get me

Sorry for the word 'your of the Chaldees". It was typographical error. What I meant is Ur of Chaldees.

Stay blessed.

@ 4 get me

It seems there is problem.

I keep typing Ur ( U R) of Chaldees and keep seing Your.

Sorry brother jare. I cant understand o

@babs

if Abraham was not a Jew that means that Moses was Never a Jew then Your Trying to use A "Corrupted Book" To Justify Your Bible can not be Taken also.

sura 41 v 9 is false verse then because it say He created the Earth in 2 days it contradict verse 10 period.

@backslider,

Posted by: Backslider
Insert Quote
@babs

if Abraham was not a Jew that means that Moses was Never a Jew then Your Trying to use A "Corrupted Book" To Justify Your Bible can not be Taken also.

sura 41 v 9 is false verse then because it say He created the Earth in 2 days it contradict verse 1

Dear brother, If I had given you verses from the Quram teling you who Abraham and Moses were, you would have called me a liar, but I showed you verses from your bible telling you that Abraham was not a jew likewise Moses.

Which book did you refer to as "corrupted book"? Let me have what you meant by corrupted book please.Didnt you read the above verses from your bible? Go over the book of Genesis and you will know more about Abraham. Also go to the book of Exodus where you will read a lot about Moses too.

Brother, its very glaring that despite what is written in the bible, most christians believe that both of them are Jews. The christians go to the extent of condemning muslims for telling them that they are not jews.

Why not accept the religion of the prophets today, time is going.

Maa Salam

@backslider,

Posted by: Backslider
if Abraham was not a Jew that means that Moses was Never a Jew then Your Trying to use A "Corrupted Book" To Justify Your Bible can not be Taken also.

Which book are you referring to? Can you bring me one of the corrupt verses. It is high time I posted my absurdities in the bible.

Posted by backslider
sura 41 v 9 is false verse then because it say He created the Earth in 2 days it contradict verse 1

I have explained brother

Dear brother, If I had given you verses from the Quran telling you who Abraham and Moses were, you would have called me a liar, but I showed you verses from your bible telling you that Abraham was not a jew likewise Moses.

Which book did you refer to as "corrupted book"? Let me have what you meant by corrupted book please.Didnt you read the above verses from your bible? Go over the book of Genesis and you will know more about Abraham. Also go to the book of Exodus where you will read a lot about Moses too.

Brother, its very glaring that despite what is written in the bible, most christians believe that both of them are Jews. The christians go to the extent of condemning muslims for telling them that they are not jews.

Why not accept the religion of the prophets today, time is going.

Maa Salam

both of them are not Jews That Noun was used the to Describe Judah so that name was used to call all the children of isreal.

In Judah was Isreal named and all the people from Abraham.


You call the Bible Corrupt and You quote from the Bible U use the Bible that you Claim is false I cant understand you at all. I cannot accept Muhamed or ALI THE FRIEND OF ALLAH because They can not wash my sins away. I cannot follow ISSIAH jeremiah moses abraham etc as GOD.

According to bible standard Mohamed doesn't fit into any type of prophet. I will never use the bible to explain the Quran never You keep using the Bible to explain the Quran.

Posted by: Backslider
Insert Quote
both of them are not Jews That Noun was used the to Describe Judah so that name was used to call all the children of isreal.

In Judah was Isreal named and all the people from Abraham.

All the people from Abraham cant be Jews when Abraham himself wasn’t one.

And if you want to say all the people are Jews, it will include Ishmael and we know that he wasnt a Jew.

Posted by backslider
You call the Bible Corrupt and You quote from the Bible U use the Bible that you Claim is false I can't understand you at all. I cannot accept Muhamed or ALI THE FRIEND OF ALLAH because They can not wash my sins away. I cannot follow ISSIAH jeremiah moses abraham etc as GOD.

The reason for that is that, if I have been quoting from the Quran, you will not believe me, so I have to use what you believe in to convince you. Am sorry for that sir.

My dear brother, Jesus never washed anybody's sin.

If he can wash sins, why didn’t he come immediately Adam. Besides, he wasnt sent to you, you are not a jew. He had his ministry limited to Israel alone. All prophets were sent to their people except Muhammed that was sent to all mankind.

Quran 23 v 44: then we sent our messengers in succession. Every time there came to a nation their messenger, they denied him, so we made them follow one another and we made them as (the true stories for mankind to learn a lesson from them). So away with a people who believe not.

Quran 4 v 152: and those who believe in Allah and His messengers and make no distinction between any of them (messengers), we shall give them their rewards and Allah is Ever Oft-forgiving, most Merciful

NOW READ THE VERSES TO SHOW THAT EVERY SINNER WILL BEAR HIS BURDEN

Deuteronomy 24v16: the fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the father’s, EVERY MAN SHALL BE PUT TO DEATH FOR HIS SIN

2nd chronicles 25v4: the fathers shall not be put to death for the children, or the children be put to death for the fathers, BUT EVERY MAN SHALL DIE FOR HIS OWN SIN

Ezekiel 18v4: behold, all souls are mine, the soul of the father as well as the soul of son is mine, THE SOUL THAT SINS SHALL DIE.

Ezekiel 18v20-22: the soul that sin shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son, the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself. But if a wicked turns away from all sins which he has committed and keeps all my statues and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him, for the righteousness which he has done he shall live.

Galatia 6 v5 & 7: for each man will have to bear his own load. (7) do not be decived, God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap

MUHAMMED (SAW) WAS SENT TO ALL MANKIND

Quran 21v107: and we have not sent you (Muhammed saw) but as a mercy to the world (all creatures including man, animsl, jinn etc)

Quran 34v28: and we have not sent you (O Muhammed saw) but to all the men as a bearer of good news and as a warner, but most do not know

Quran 46v9: say: I (Muhammed saw) ,am not the first of the apostles, and I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me, and I am nothing but a plain warner.

Quran 7v157: those who follow the apostle, whom they find written down with them in the Injeel and Torah, who enjoins them good and forbids them evil, and makes lawful to them impure things, and removes from them their burden and the shackles which were upon them; so (as far) those who believe in Him and honour Him and Help Him, and follow the light which has been sent down with Him, these it is that are the successful.

The above tells us that we have the holy Prophet (Muhammed saw) prophesised in the Bible.

Posted by backslider
According to bible standard Mohamed doesn't fit into any type of prophet. I will never use the bible to explain the Quran never You keep using the Bible to explain the Quran.

Sorry sir, If I use the Quran, you will not believe me, so I have to use what you believe in.

Aword is enough for the wise

Maa Salam

My brother My Brother ah you never cease to amaze me I know this about Islamic Apologetics they use The Bible to defend their position it is not you it has been like that for years I have been arguing with them.


If all cant be Jews Then Moses is not a JEW! Simple and Short. so your arguement of amongst his people cant hold water.

You Use Mighty weapon of War and you dont know the correct use.

Any way Please keep reading the Bible I am happy you are reading it. When I am Argueing About The Quran I never USe the Any book to defend it.

SCRIPTURE MUST INTERPRETE SCRIPTURE IF NOT THE BOOK IS RUBBISH.

The soul that Sineth shall die I hope you will be ready to meet him without sin. Muhamed cannot never clean you from sin Jesus can. THE BLOOD OF JESUS WILL WASH AWAY YOUR SINS.

JESUS IS GOD HE CAN WASH THE SINS OF MAN. you are no exception.


with the Dueteronomy bible Quote you gave you should read the whole chapter if you are true to yourself. I perceive you are reluctant to read the Various Scripture. This is moral law Given to Isreal OK!

[b] 14Thou shalt not oppress an hired servant that is poor and needy, whether he be of thy brethren, or of thy strangers that are in thy land within thy gates:

15At his day thou shalt give him his hire, neither shall the sun go down upon it; for he is poor, and setteth his heart upon it: lest he cry against thee unto the LORD, and it be sin unto thee.

16The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

17Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge:

18But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing. [/b]

This is God Telling The Children of Isreal that He Just in Executing Judgement

Ezekiel 18

1The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,

2What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?

3As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.

4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

5But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,

6And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman,




If you Agree with this quote below

Galatia 6 v5 & 7: for each man will have to bear his own load. (7) do not be decived, God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap

what about below?

come unto me that are Heavy ladden I will give you rest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh

Ezekiel 18v20-22: the soul that sin shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son, the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself. But if a wicked turns away from all sins which he has committed and keeps all my statues and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him, for the righteousness which he has done he shall live.

To the above you should start read from verse11 I know you will not read it so let [b]

11And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife,

12Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination,

13Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.

14Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,

15That hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbour's wife,

16Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither hath spoiled by violence, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment,

17That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.

18As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity.

19Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.

20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

21But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

22All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

23Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

24But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

25Yet ye say, The way of the LORD is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

26When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

27Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

28Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

29Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the LORD is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

30Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

32For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.[/b]

You will see that The Children of isreal were confused the way some families were dying as if God was unrighteous God had to clear the air through a Correct PROPHET ezekiel.


Peace to You from the Prince of Peace

@ backslider,

Brother

I even laugh when a verse is being picked from the old testament, christians will quickly lie that the verse is for the jews but they never for one day condemn the issue of tilth in Malachi.

I will still respond your post but want you to answer these for me please.

1. Why did God not send Jesus immediately after Adam but allowed string of prophets to have come and gone before Jesus?

2. Can you face firing squad on behalf of a sin committed by another person?

3. If God's anger was kindled against Adam and Eve for their disobedience, could the anger persist onto the generation of Adam and Eve?

4. If sin means breaking of God's law, which of the children of Adam had ever known anything called the forbidden tree?

5. If men are born sinners, the coming of jesus at the end of the world to die for sins of men is equally stupefying with regards to countless number of people that have gone before his coming.

6. Let me ask, what kind of God is that, because of the sin of two people, decided to condemn the entire humanity for the sin they knew nothing about?

7. If really there is salvation in his blood, why did he preach repentance

8. Also if its only through his blood one can gain salvation, why did he used little children as examples since the bible says that no one born of a woman is clean

Maa Saalm

@babs

there was ship that wanted to capsize on the see and on it the small boat was carrying the people to shore there were this 2 people left and a ballot was cast and one was to stay behind Which was a old man that had a bad temper and cursed all day long.

The Young lad Looked at the Agony of the Old sailor with his hands on his head, the lad told the old man to Go in his place on the boat he will stay on the Ship. He old man gladly took his place and Thanked the lad. But the lad handed the Old man a bible to be Given to the Mum.

The above is what Jesus Died for you and I.

This is true he loved us while we were yet sinners he died in our place this is a Proof of how a man can die for a man.

Jesus is the Atonement of sin for us. Repent now and Believe in Him.

@backslider,

Dear Brother,

God cannot be deceived and on that last day, Jesus will witness against you for all the blasphemous statement you have been utterring .

How can God, when he is not sango or ogun worshipper, take a son (the beloved son) and use it for sacrifice!!

This curse that you all claimed to have been cleansed is still hanging.

Be wise up brother, do not be deceived again.

Maa Salam

@ babs

If beleiving in the Son of God is what you refered cursed I will be cursed forever from hellfire In Jesus My lord and God names.

Muhamed will stand In front of Jesus that Day and the books will be opened and all the deed that he did on earth will be read out.

All those that are found with sin be it Muslim pagan "christian" atheist hindu budhist will stand trial. May the love of Christ hold out for you before you approach your grave.
Amen

Very interesting posts, while babs could prove his points using both the Quran and the bible, I could not see anybody else do the same.
Remember brothers, it is only said that the bible has been adultrated and not completely false. Some facts are still intact and it still contain information enough to prove so many things about Islam- the coming of Muhammad and the Quran itself.
May God guide us all.

@deenmb,

deenmb:

Very interesting posts, while babs could prove his points using both the Quran and the bible, I could not see anybody else do the same.

Then perhaps you have poor sight; or you have quickly jumped to conclusion without carefully going through the threads; or you just want to assume another name for babs787 (if you're not the same person praising himself! ). In anycase, be assured that babs787's arguments have been laid to rest.

deenmb:

Remember brothers, it is only said that the bible has been adultrated and not completely false.

It is "only said" but not proven. We have asked once and again that those making reference to the "original Bible" should tell us what it says in exactly the words used in it. So far, no Muslim has come up with any answers.

deenmb:

Some facts are still intact and it still contain information enough to prove so many things about Islam- the coming of Muhammad and the Quran itself.
May God guide us all.

Muslims are confused about which facts are "still intact" in the Bible. Most of them are ready to deny every verse in the Bible if it suits their arguments; but no one Muslim has come forward to authenticate the denials Muhammad made against Biblical truths.

Posted by syrup
Then perhaps you have poor sight; or you have quickly jumped to conclusion without carefully going through the threads; or you just want to assume another name for babs787 (if you're not the same person praising himself! ). In anycase, be assured that babs787's arguments have been laid to rest.

Shahan in disguise. You just open up your stinking and address people the way you feel.

The brother has never said anything bad let alone calling you names yet you resorted to saying stupid things against him.

Why are some christians ladies here uncultured? They open their stinking mouth and talk anyhow. Mind you, If can not give respect to your husband at home, that doesnt mean you shouldnt giive to those outside.

I thought you have been following this thread but alas your stupidity blinded you to the extent of not seeing that the argument has been between Backslider and myself.

My dear brother backslider levelled allegations against me and I cleared it for him yet u open your stupid mouth and started posting contrary rejoinder that my argument has been laid to rest. My argument or backslider's?

Like i have been saying, respect is reciprocal. If you resort to being stupid, babs wont hesitate to accord you the same measure.

You think you can just open your mouth and address people anyhow here. The same way your derailed brother Havila did. I owe nobody any apology.

If you stoop low, I will likewise do and if you play funny, babs will likewise do.

Posted by syrup
It is "only said" but not proven. We have asked once and again that those making reference to the "original Bible" should tell us what it says in exactly the words used in it. So far, no Muslim has come up with any answers.

If not that you are blind, how many times have I posted verses missing in some versions but present in others.

Posted by syrup
Muslims are confused about which facts are "still intact" in the Bible. Most of them are ready to deny every verse in the Bible if it suits their arguments; but no one Muslim has come forward to authenticate the denials Muhammad made against Biblical truths.

Honestly, you are really blindfolded. How many times have I quoted verses for you here, yet you come and acts being blind.

@backslider,

My respectable brother.

Jesus will not judge anyone. He will be judged on that day.

You will read everything from my thread on Judgement day.

Its this prophet you are condemning that will intercede for you when man will stand for years unattended to.

It will be better for you if you desist from all your blasphemous statements

Salam

@babs787,

Your vitriol is a trademark that has followed you all through, especially when your inputs have been laid to rest. Like I said earlier, I really don't mind being called whatever as long as you don't keep falling all over yourself.

babs787:

Shahan in disguise. You just open up your stinking and address people the way you feel.

I would be highly honoured to be called 'shahan', more so because she's acknowledged on the Forum to be a brilliant mind anyone could aspire to. Perhaps my point wasn't far from the truth to have drawn your daggers. However, whenever shahan does show up, I hope for your sake that she'll speak for herself.

babs787:

The brother has never said anything bad let alone calling you names yet you resorted to saying stupid things against him.

How have my response to his put you on spot?

babs787:

Why are some christians ladies here uncultured? They open their stinking mouth and talk anyhow. Mind you, If can not give respect to your husband at home, that doesnt mean you shouldnt giive to those outside.

You just confirmed your trademark.

babs787:

I thought you have been following this thread but alas your stupidity blinded you to the extent of not seeing that the argument has been between Backslider and myself.

I followed the thread alright; just that it is typical of a vexed soul to arrogate an open thread to just himself - like you.

babs787:

My dear brother backslider levelled allegations against me and I cleared it for him yet u open your stupid mouth and started posting contrary rejoinder that my argument has been laid to rest. My argument or backslider's?

Your argument has been laid to rest, babs787. It's only pride that's preventing you from seeing this.

babs787:

Like i have been saying, respect is reciprocal. If you resort to being stupid, babs wont hesitate to accord you the same measure.

The same measure of being stupid? Like I said earlier, you're in a class of your own if you have nothing better to offer.

babs787:

You think you can just open your mouth and address people anyhow here. The same way your derailed brother Havila did. I owe nobody any apology.

It's amazing that you stopped short of calling me 'Havila' in addition to 'shahan'. . .Lol. I did not expect any apologies from you anyhow as long as your have a perculiar trademark.

babs787:

If you stoop low, I will likewise do and if you play funny, babs will likewise do.

I understand your position, and believe me - it is sooo low. But no thanks: you're all on your own.

babs787:

If not that you are blind, how many times have I posted verses missing in some versions but present in others.

Which is precisely my point: degorging issues that have been addressed and pretending you didn't see them. Besides, Muslims themselves know that any translation of the Qur'an into any language immediately discarded as no longer the Qur'an.

babs787:

Honestly, you are really blindfolded. How many times have I quoted verses for you here, yet you come and acts being blind.

I know you really had noting to say here but to vent your pent up vexations for having been laid to rest in your arguments. It's nothing new: I actually consider your lingo mild in comparison to others in your category.

@ babs787 i have observed that you take it upon yourself to disprove christainity, hitherto i chose not to participate in the religion forum but the level of error and wayward doctrines i have read from you suggest to me that you are seeking the truth but don't know how to go about it. If you want to be honest with yourself, your spirit does not believe in Islam, deny it for all i care.

When it comes to knowledge some of us have it in abundance we read voraciously and have read doctrines after doctrine but in spiritual things "it is the spirit that giveth life", no volume of knowledge you acquire can reveal the deep mysteries of the kingdom to you.

At a point i listened to islam and other versions of christainity and one clear thing they all try to do is to remove the sonship of christ his death and ressurection, which is the reality of the new creation. Its such a clear strategy of the "spirits" behind all this religions to lead people astray(which really is the deveil but i don't want to go into the devil thingy), after this ommission the spirits moves to morality and confuses it with righteousness. I hear statements like i have a good heart, i don't drink, i don't smoke, i don't womanize blah, blah and i ask do you believe that jesus died for you and immediatelty the religious folks want to go into an arguement.

The righteousness we have is by faith and not of works least we should boast, we are born again christains because we believe christ is the son of God (the word made flesh and dwelt amongst men) we believe that he died for our sins and on the third day he rose again from the dead and is seated at the right hand of God the father. In short we know he is alive because he is involved in our everyday lives. We believe in our hearts and confess with our mouths these things, These are the facts of our life in christ please note its not a religion. Also it is not bigotry we are tolerant of other views and lifestyles , you can call it fanatism but hey spiritual things have to do with fanatism, am a fan of christ, so as i am of manchester united.

Have you asked yourself why islamic nations are so vehemetly against their citizens coming across the bible and against the preaching of the gospel, the UK, US and several others forexample are originaly christain states but you don't see them place such restrictions, every religion is welcomed and there is freedom to do and believe whatever you want. I dare the islamic states to do this. I ask the simple question WHY THIS FEAR OF CHRISTAINITY. You want to know the truth its because of the power in the word, the spirit that convicts sinners and reveals the fatherhood of God to man. SUCH IS THE FEAR

In summary i ask you to shun all the pretence and ask the question you really want to ask stop all this dilly dally up and down, which i suspect is why are we so convinced?? don't we think we might be wrong?? then maybe someone would ANSWER YOU,  you make our convictions stronger every day.

@buluti,


Thanks for the wonderful post to start with it.

If you want to say am disaproving christianity from your own point of view, fine with me, but you never said anything to all they have been saying concerning my religion.

If you want to do equity, you must come with clean hands.

Sometimes ago, I read a biased post submitted by lafile but ignored the post because his time is not yet up. Babs is not seeking any truth, babs has found the truth and no derailing.

I thought this is a forum where christians and muslims express their feelings but noticed that you christians are always one sided when it comes to addressing issues. Your fellows have been lifting from sites all sorts of lies and blasphemous statements, yet you didnt check them but only see that of babs.

To let you know, I was born into a christian communty, raised by christian parents, went to christian school and has lots of christians friends both in Nigeria and outside. Despite the difference in faith, we still respect each other and never go beyond each other's limit, we are still best of friends.

I never claimed Mr. know all, knowledge continues till one dies.

To the issue of sonship, crucifixion etc, must youu hold me to believe in your faith and what has been debunked. I have been reading the bible right from my youthful age. Thought at times, you may be reading something and never grab the meaning. The reading continues as time goes by and I can tell you (not boasting), some christians here cannot stand me when it comes to biblical knowledge. I do read bible a lot and through my reading, I was able to detect all the loopholes. Through my reading, I detected that all the doctrines are false and have no solid foundation, most are later insertions. which can be proven.

I never got involved in this forum but when I read all the lies perpetrated by your friends, I have to open up too. Thank God, I am a muslim now and will remain. I never disturb people with the little I know unless you ask me anything as far as religion is concerned.

If you say Jesus died for you, its ok by you, for you is your religion and for me is my religion. You can not tell me that I should take that from you when clear facts are even from your bible and not Quran this time.

Furthermore, you seems to be confused at the sonship of God. The sonship is a jewish language used by them to refer to anyone that does the will of God and not that God giving birth to someone. There is no special attribute to the sonship of God. If you want to tell from that perspective that sonship can be termed 'the one that does the will of God' , its ok by. I am an Arsenal fan so no cause for alaram.

The same way you believe sonship with your heart, so also babs does in his ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM and nothing can ever change that.

I could remember shahan never knew about 'christ' and 'messiah' and likewise the same capsule (sorry syrup), asking the same question.

How many questions have christians raised so far and have been answered by babs but when babs asks his own, thats when they resort to all sorts of names which babs never give a damn to.

Conclusively, what question are you refering to here? Nobody is pretending, its you that should check yourselves. Didnt you read the thread that it was my respectable brother, backslider that asked questions and I responded yet the tablet lady took it to mean another thing. How many verses of the bible have I quoted wrongly. Give me a break man, for you is your religion and for me my religion. I was a christian and there is nothing you can ever tell me as far as christianity is concerned that I dont know.

So brother, He that wants to do equity must come with clean hands.

A word is enough for the wise.

Let me stop here

Posted by syrup
Your argument has been laid to rest, babs787. It's only pride that's preventing you from seeing this.

Why not try to be reasonable for a while.Its not my argument but backslider's. hmmm.

Posted by Syrup
Which is precisely my point: degorging issues that have been addressed and pretending you didn't see them. Besides, Muslims themselves know that any translation of the Qur'an into any language immediately discarded as no longer the Qur'an.

Please, let me have examples please. I have been quoting from your bible. Let me have same from the Quran too.


Posted by syrup
I know you really had noting to say here but to vent your pent up vexations for having been laid to rest in your arguments. It's nothing new: I actually consider your lingo mild in comparison to others in your category.

Small girl, Its not my argument but backslider's.