maedan:

@ viaro I'm certainly not going to stay up all night arguing with you. All I know is that it is numerically impossible for the Church, any church, to give out [b]everything [/b]free. Your friends managed to get saved with free bibles, etc. Lucky them. But many Christians today, rich or poor, see nothing wrong in spending good money on what ever items they feel adds to their spiritual growth. If you want to wait for something to be free before you edify yourself, be my guest. And goodnight.

@maedan, I wasn't expecting or requesting that you stayed up all night arguing with anyone. You were talking as if no one should expect the Gospel to reach people freely, and that was why I had tobring you round what you may not have considered. When the emphasis is on money in any ministry, something is seriously wrong - and we all know that.

Seems to me today's new breed churches are 'business oriented' than Christ centered.

For the record the Copy right for "Open Heavens" belongs to Pastor Adeboye and not the RCCG this implies that all proceeds of the sales go into his private pocket and not the ministry as some people are trying to infer on this forum. Pastor Adeboye is simply profiteering from the gospel through merchadizing it.

KunleOshob:

For the record [b]the Copy right for "Open Heavens" belongs to Pastor Adeboye and not the RCCG [/b]this implies that all proceeds of the sales go into his private pocket and not the ministry as some people are trying to infer on this forum. Pastor Adeboye is simply profiteering from the gospel through merchadizing it.

Is this true? Lawd of mercy! Never thought they'd go this far o!

And here I was wondering weting boys fit do to take hammer on time.

I need to start my own church, quick quick!

@ Topic,

Personally, i do not see any thing wrong in selling the app version of the daily devotional, developing the application cost a lot of money, but what will be wrong is if after selling it and making some good money from it[b], NONE IS PUT IN CHARITY[/b]

|| Viaro || Rebirth or you recently took a baseball bat to the head?

It's good to see you on this side bro,

KunleOshob:

For the record the Copy right for "Open Heavens" belongs to Pastor Adeboye and not the RCCG this implies that all proceeds of the sales go into his private pocket and not the ministry as some people are trying to infer on this forum. Pastor Adeboye is simply profiteering from the gospel through merchadizing it.

me thinks that there is more than meets the eye in RCCG. . . .it is either Adeboye is not the main person in charge or he is simply a fraud.
his silence and indifference on several issues is largely disturbing.

@ Maeda/ debosky etc. . .

What about Jehovah's witnesses? They print the highest quality Christian Literature in the world AND HAVE NEVER CHARGED ANY BODY A SINGLE CENT FOR IT.

Different churches have different modes of operation.
If some can afford it, let it all be free. As for me, I don't see much bad in churches asking for a token in return for one thing or the other.

maedan:

Different churches have different modes of operation.
If some can afford it, let it all be free. As for me, I don't see much bad in churches asking for a token in return for one thing or the other.

It is bad when such businesses are conducted in the name of "the Lord", especially when it is not "token" they are asking for. These kinds of excuses being waved in our faces is why many people will "return for one thing or the other" to plunder Christians by all sorts of holy gimmicks.

Lol @ "plunder" Christians. These are much too strong words. But I can see you feel strongly about this. Good fight, but wrong battle. The way you talk, one would think we Christians were being extorted from by Churches.

ogajim:

|| Viaro || Rebirth or you recently took a baseball bat to the head?

It's good to see you on this side bro,

Dude, you know viaro. . . a bit of a rascal between times, but I don't encourage bollocks. When you guys were all over the place about Adeboye, I was taking my time to read up on him. The guy is a humble thief - that much I know. I may not be too bothered if it was a case of mistaken business pimping, but when someone is selling salvation to the world, I will call him exactly what he is without mincing words: Adeboye is a humble THIEF.

maedan:

Lol @ "plunder" Christians. These are much too strong words. But I can see you feel strongly about this. Good fight, but wrong battle. The way you talk, one would think we Christians were being extorted from by Churches.

Hahaha! "Much too strong words", you say? How about this: Adeboye is a "humble thief"?

And no, missy - that is not a 'wrong battle'; nor am I supposing that Christians are being extorted by Churches. I am particular with one man I found who is stealing in the name of the Lord. He may clasp his hands and perform all the theatricals that draw the crowd, but selling salvation to the masses is some work that would make the devil green with envy!

KunleOshob:

For the record the Copy right for "Open Heavens" belongs to Pastor Adeboye and not the RCCG this implies that all proceeds of the sales go into his private pocket and not the ministry as some people are trying to infer on this forum. Pastor Adeboye is simply profiteering from the gospel through merchadizing it.

It implies no such thing - the publication is written by Adeboye, but is a publication of the RCCG. That he holds the copywright does not mean he gets the proceeds from the book, just as a person publishing an article in a magazine or being the editor of a journal doesn't confer all income rights on that person.

The Gospel is not being merchandised by creating the open heavens devotional - if bibles are sold for a price then I don't see why a compilation of thoughts and inspiration for daily reading MUST be free.

Deep Sight:

@ Maeda/ debosky etc. . .

What about Jehovah's witnesses? They print the highest quality Christian Literature in the world AND HAVE NEVER CHARGED ANY BODY A SINGLE CENT FOR IT.

So what? It is JH's prerogative to give it out free, just as it is RCCG's prerogative to charge what it wishes. There is nowhere in the bible that says that Christian literature must be given for free.

viaro:

It is bad when such businesses are conducted in the name of "the Lord", especially when it is not "token" they are asking for. These kinds of excuses being waved in our faces is why many people will "return for one thing or the other" to plunder Christians by all sorts of holy gimmicks.

The BB app is being marketed primarily to people in the West and not to Africans. With all due respect, if you can buy a single burger for $4.99 or even more, then it is a token amount in this case.

There are dozens of devotionals out there - some free, some paid for. No one is compelling anyone to buy this devotional in any of its forms.

viaro:

Hahaha! "Much too strong words", you say? How about this: Adeboye is a "humble thief"?

And no, missy - that is not a 'wrong battle'; nor am I supposing that Christians are being extorted by Churches. I am particular with one man I found who is stealing in the name of the Lord. He may clasp his hands and perform all the theatricals that draw the crowd, but selling salvation to the masses is some work that would make the devil green with envy!

Selling salvation??  Oh viaro, may God forgive you! . I don't know much about how Churches are run, but there are things to be paid for. The electrician that fixes the sound and PA system for the services needs to be paid; so do the handymen that handle the building of the structures that hold masses of devotees during big programmes. But these are just tiny examples of how money is used for a good cause to get "salvation to the masses". People like the Witnesses have loads of sponsors so they can afford to give out free pamphlets (which can in no way be compared to a yearly devotional like Adeboye's Open Heavens) But when it comes to published works it takes a lot to get it out in the market - how can it then be given out free to the millions who require it??

I don't know anything about Adeboye's accountability, all I'm saying is that Open Heavens, app, soft or hard copy version, is worth paying for. If you're such a generous Christian you can buy a million copies and give it out to the needy Christian masses (joke )

debosky:

The BB app is being marketed primarily to people in the West and not to Africans. With all due respect, if you can buy a single burger for $4.99 or even more, then it is a token amount in this case.

There are dozens of devotionals out there - some free, some paid for. No one is compelling anyone to buy this devotional in any of its forms.

I am not asking anyone to buy or reject the BB app on the basis of any "compelling". Why is RCCG's too focused on money?

viaro:

I am not asking anyone to buy or reject the BB app on the basis of any "compelling". Why is RCCG's too focused on money?

How have you arrived at this opinion? Because of a $4.99 app?

maedan:

Selling salvation?? Oh viaro, may God forgive you! . I don't know much about how Churches are run, but there are things to be paid for.

Nobody - I repeat: NOBODY - should have to pay anything to secure any place in heaven! Adeboye's doctrine on that instance sets a fee to secure salvation for those in RCCG, and that is clearly wrong.

The electrician that fixes the sound and PA system for the services needs to be paid; so do the handymen that handle the building of the structures that hold masses of devotees during big programmes. But these are just tiny examples of how money is used for a good cause to get "salvation to the masses".

Dear maedan, you're not the one I would like to discuss this issue with - because you don't seem to know the seriousness of what's at stake here. Anyone could enter into some business deal or employment of sorts; but on no account should anyone have to pay anything for the message of salvation, nor connect the receiving of money to save any man's soul.

People like the Witness have loads of sponsors so they can afford to give out free pamphlets (which can in no way be compared to a yearly devotional like Adeboye's Open Heavens) But when it comes to published works it takes a lot to get it out in the market - how can it then be given out free to the millions who require it??

I appreciate what you're on to; but I've also shown examples of people giving out published works free - even far more than what Adeboye gives to anybody. These examples do not take or solicit anything from anyone for the materials they give out freely: some of them that I know about look to their own churches or groups for donations to make those materials available without asking receivers anything for them.

I don't know anything about Adeboye's accountability, all I'm saying is that Open Heavens, app, soft or hard copy version, is worth paying for. If you're such a generous Christian you can buy a million copies and give it out to the needy Christian masses (joke )

Okay maedan, I shall leave it there. . . with a sense of humour.

debosky:

How have you arrived at this opinion? Because of a $4.99 app?

I arrived at that point because of the excuses being waved in defence of Adeboye's greed.

viaro:

I arrived at that point because of the excuses being waved in defence of Adeboye's greed.

And you regard that as a valid conclusion? Do you know anything of Adeboye or RCCG personally or are you concluding from 'excuses' being waved by people who may or may not even know anything about the motives and principles guiding the aforementioned?

I expected better, but then again objectivity is bound to be found lacking at some point.

Back to the topic at hand - given the wide range of prices that can be found on the BB apps store, selling an app for $4.99 is not an issue, no more than selling books or bibles which cost money to produce.

davidylan:

Actually its the other way round. So many of you dont even understand the bible to the extent that you now glorify paying for the gospel. You dont pay for Godly things . . . grace, mercy, salvation and the sermons on the mount were free. Christ never asked those He healed to feed Him or buy Him clothes or provide a house for Him.

Is Adeboye or RCCG asking you to pay before you receive sermons in church? Why these type of off point arguments start off is always a puzzle to me.

Do books not cost money to print? Does someone somewhere not PAY for it?

Not once did Paul package his epistles for sale among the early churches (if he maintained copyright on it, his descendants would be billionaires today).

No he didn't, but he received financial assistance from (some of) the churches he wrote to didn't he?

But you go on paying for your sunday-sunday sermons . . .

Quit twisting issues - no one is required to pay for sermons on a Sunday - asking people to pay for something that has cost something to produce is not unreasonable. People can make a choice and decide not to buy, or to buy. Buying Open Heavens is not a requirement for attending Sunday Service, neither is an entry fee charged for entering churches.

@ viaro after reading your responses I have to say I just don't get you. Just what do you want? For everything to be given away FREE?? Such an argument is overwhelmingly flawed: that no one should have to pay ANYTHING "to secure a place in heaven". I guess folks like you would even frown at giving offering in church. Well salvation I'm sure is free but items that have a price tag should be paid for. Give to Ceasar and all that. I've seen some veeerrrry expensive bibles, and people buy them. Same goes for other kinds of Christian literature. It's just a choice you have to make - to buy or not to buy.

instead of asking church members to donate money, it's best you sell something that wud impact more on their lifes

debosky:

And you regard that as a valid conclusion? Do you know anything of Adeboye or RCCG personally or are you concluding from 'excuses' being waved by people who may or may not even know anything about the motives and principles guiding the aforementioned?

I expected better, but then again objectivity is bound to be found lacking at some point.

Back to the topic at hand - given the wide range of prices that can be found on the BB apps store, selling an app for $4.99 is not an issue, no more than selling books or bibles which cost money to produce.

Howabout asking members to pay 20 bucks each time they wanna urinate or poo at the camp ground?

Well I guess toilets cost a lot of money to build hence toll fee should be collected.

And we're blaming Chris. Blackberry Open heaven and Rhapsody, what's the difference?

Maedan -

So how come JWs are able to give away all their stuff free. They welcome only voluntary donations, y'know.

@deepsight
because the JW is not a for profit business concern an they don't believe in merchandizing gospel materials. The unfortunate think that this practise of merchandizing christian items as been going on for too long and it is actually the "church" that should kick against it that is profiteering from it hence there are very few voices [un heard] speaking against this anormally. Christians have come to accept it as the norm and they don't bother to question such unbiblical practises despite the fact that it runs contrary to the teachings and spirit of the gospel. In fact "christians" not baselessy defend the hypocrisy claiming the money is needed to "spread" the gospel while the obvious truth of merchandizing and profiteering for private gain is being ignored.

And Jesus Christ GAVE his LIFE for our SAKES, ALL FOR FREE.

well who God bless no man can curse. altho the redeem money culture is concerning at times like the millionaire club  and no they dont give you millions, but that man is enoyinh sha

KunleOshob:

@deepsight
because the JW is not a for profit business concern an they don't believe in merchandizing gospel materials. The unfortunate think that this practise of merchandizing christian items as been going on for too long and it is actually the "church" that should kick against it that is profiteering from it hence there are very few voices [un heard] speaking against this anormally. Christians have come to accept it as the norm and they don't bother to question such unbiblical practises despite the fact that it runs contrary to the teachings and spirit of the gospel. In fact "christians" not baselessy defend the hypocrisy claiming the money is needed to "spread" the gospel while the obvious truth of merchandizing and profiteering for private gain is being ignored.

With all due respect, you cannot simply call this 'merchandizing'. The application is a technical piece of software which costs money to make and develop. There is no reason why the church should bear the cost of such a creation of convenience - those who want to use it can pay for it.

I see no obvious truth of 'merchandising' in this case - All I see is yet another medium being used to disseminate useful material to people who are interested in it.

You have no evidence of profiteering for private gain in this matter - all you have done is make a tenuous at best and baseless at worst claim simply because of a copyright of the writings in the daily devotional.

There is nothing unbiblical about paying for a devotional - I am sure scrolls of the scripture did cost something to purchase even in biblical times and were not always given out free.

In any case, even the item is purportedly 'free' - it costs someone somewhere money to produce the items so it isn't free in the end.

Each organisation has the right to decide whether to charge for providing these types of materials or to give them out free, based on their plans and objectives. It is the height of folly to think you can sit back without having background information and pass judgment on the motive of the originators.

Deep Sight:

Maedan -

So how come JWs are able to give away all their stuff free. They welcome only voluntary donations, y'know.

Well, like I said, Churches have their different ways of running things. I don't encourage the over-commercialisation of the church but let us be slow in condemning our spiritual leaders for not being as perfect in their actions as Jesus Christ was.