chisco82:

Please can you support the bolded with scriptural backup Or did you just assume that?

Cleave unto the word of God and flee these demons....

Run....

obailala:
The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ fufilled (ended the era of) The Law.

The mandatory payment of a tenth (tithe) of one's increase is purely a component of The Law,
together with animal sacrifices and all the other numerous strange and impossible components.

Any preacher today who still preaches that it is mandatory to pay 10% (a component of The Law) is simply saying that Christ's death has not fulfillled The Law.

chisco82:
Please can you support the bolded with scriptural backup Or did you just assume that?

Yes we can.
We can support the bolded with scriptural backup
and pleased to say the bolded is not just assumptions nor figment of imaginations

chisco82:
Be civil bit, we are learning and you can make ur point without insult.

My question is those there were into non~farming activities what should be there tithe?
Now this verse 25 of Deutronomy 14 you quoted
"then you shall turn it into money, and bind up the money in your hand, and go to the place which the Lord" your God chooses, please explain

²⁶When you arrive, you may use the money to buy any kind of food you want
- cattle, sheep, goats, wine, or other alcoholic drink.
Then feast there in the presence of the LORD your God and celebrate with your household.
²⁷And do not neglect the Levites in your town, for they will receive no allotment of land among you.
(i.e. they have no land of their own as you have)
- Deutronomy 14:26-27

There is too much to unlearn from and a lot more to learn that's beyond the scope of this thread, but will you a brief summary

For starters, non~farming activities dont require tithing
Artisans and/or non~farming activities are not required to tithe.

Secondly, Israel is a nation, with storehouses, and these for obvious reasons, were strategically positioned all over Israel
The distances to the storehouse or the temple in Jerusalem might be too far for transporting the tithes there
So because of the challenges of the logistics, one was allowed to turn tithes into money
however upon arriving at any paticular designated storehouse or the temple in Jerusalem,
you promptly exchange the money, as stated in Deutronomy 14:26, on anything you want: cattle, sheep, wine, beer or anything else you desire

chisco82:
No, all im saying is that Jesus Christ himself never condem tithing.
Luke 11:42 KJV
But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God:
these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
The bolded said it sometthing that need to be done.

Trust me, if Jesus, for a casual visit, was to come back to earth here, now, just for second, He will condem tithing
He will frown at ecclesiastical tithe, where christian gatherings, taxes its members tenth, 1/10, 10% and possibly 0.1 too, of their financial income
He will ask:
Do you know what the gospel means and is?
Gospel means good news
and it typifies FREEDOM, from any type or form of obligatory or imposed tithing.

Jesus never condemned kidnapping

aribisala0:


WHO dd Jacob pay tithes to ?

God

Really ? when did Babylonian civilization start?

Civilization began in Egypt . Later, later Babylon rose

.simply means tenth. Which may be given as tax to government,share of profits ,to God etc. Tithe as a form of taxation existed long before Abraham and in the land that Abraham and his father lived
If Jacob knew about the act of tithing from his father or not we are not told by the bible that is a guess.

Tax is to govern,ent ,tithe is to God

Matthew 22:21
. . ., Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's

He certainly knew about circumcision.Why did he not make a vow about circumcision? That was a clear commandment.

Maybe the lesser is in the greater. You tell us

If there was a commandment about tithes then what sense is there in making a vow about it

What you forgot is that he didn't vow about tithe only . He also said God will be his God. Was God not his God already? Hope you're getting the point . It was like an affirmation . If a ,an says " GOD IF YOU DEKIVER ME FROM THIS TROUBLE I WILL SERVE YOU FOREVER . Does that mean he wasn't serving God?

Jews do not make vows to keep the Sabbath or not eat pork and so on but they still make vows.

They made vows Many times

aribisala0:
Jesus never condemned kidnapping

Nice one, whatever is not condemn or fulfilled in Christ still stands

NwaAmaikpe:



Sorry to differ with you.
But the giving of monetary offerings to the church as tithe is wrong, it is unbiblical and purely exploitative.

The Bible is perspicuous about tithing.
Deuteronomy 14 : 22-27
Explains the process of tithing which our devilish pastors never tell us.

Besides none of our Pastors in Nigeria are from the tribe of Levi (Only Levites receive tithes)

Kindly study it and be blessed.

I think you should become a comedian, you'll thrive...

Your argument is quite incoherent with the issue on ground. Giving to God has nothing to do with tithe or giving in the church. Mathew 25 is very clear on the way to give to God. The issue here is that there is no tithing in Christianity. Christianity started after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. Did he pay or receive tithe? NO. Our first pastors-the apostles, did they pay or receive tithe? No. Everything is wrong in giving tithes to the Pastor when millions of people are in genuine need of that money. Those who cannot pay their hospital bills, those who cannot pay their school fees, those who have legal issues, but cannot hire a lawyer. These are the people God directed us to give money. You do not give to God by paying tithe. That is crass ignorance and misconception. You give to God when you give to the poor and the needy. That is the verdict in Mathew 25. May God grant you understanding.

derecho:
The modalities of giving is secondary bro.Do you believe it's biblical? Was Christ against it?Did the Apostles in any of the Epistles speak against it?Serving God is by revelation. If you ain't convinced, please KEEP YOUR MONEY. Tithing is one of the many ways of giving to God.Or you think God was confused when He spoke in Malachi 3?
For your info,ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN by inspiration of God...read the rest in 2 Timothy 3:16-17.Bible is not some literary work that you just understand by using reasoning...Even if you want to use reasoning,what's wrong if a person gives God one-tenth of his income?Does it negate Phil.4:8 in anyway?Do you in anyway believe that God can owe a man?We become Christians at the point of GIVING OUR LIVES TO GOD not when we joined denomination.If you have given your Life to God what is money?The problem is a carnal man CAN NEVER grasp Spiritual things,as you know ROMANS 8:6-8 kindly read.

Finally,Tithe isnt given to Pastors and there's a purpose for it.Believers aim to give their ALL to God and physically express Love ; we don't live for ourselves anymore. This, the early disciples understood and u saw what happened in Acts 2:44-45.

Instead of dissipating our energies kicking against doctrines;Let's like Jesus talk about WEIGHTIER MATTERS which is the Cross of Jesus and Holiness without which no man can see God.Those who started this discus have a sinister motive.

First, I discuss I don't argue and "coherence" is partly dependent on the ability/willingness/sometimes the humility of the decoder to see it.When a sighted person decides to walk with his eyes closed,who will you blame?

I am done with the tithe issue...Like I said,There are weightier issues.Tnx.

buragidi:
Your argument is quite incoherent with the issue on ground. Giving to God has nothing to do with tithe or giving in the church. Mathew 25 is very clear on the way to give to God. The issue here is that there is no tithing in Christianity. Christianity started after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. Did he pay or receive tithe? NO. Our first pastors-the apostles, did they pay or receive tithe? No. Everything is wrong in giving tithes to the Pastor when millions of people are in genuine need of that money. Those who cannot pay their hospital bills, those who cannot pay their school fees, those who have legal issues, but cannot hire a lawyer. These are the people God directed us to give money. You do not give to God by paying tithe. That is crass ignorance and misconception. You give to God when you give to the poor and the needy. That is the verdict in Mathew 25. May God grant you understanding.

hardasan:



[b]Hebrews 7:5-12King James Version (KJV)

5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

.............

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


Hebrews 7:5-12Good News Translation (GNT)

5 And those descendants of Levi who are priests are commanded by the Law to collect one tenth from the people of Israel, that is, from their own people, even though they are also descendants of Abraham.

................

11 It was on the basis of the levitical priesthood that the Law was given to the people of Israel. Now, if the work of the levitical priests had been perfect, there would have been no need for a different kind of priest to appear, one who is in the priestly order of Melchizedek,[a] not of Aaron.
12 For when the priesthood is changed, there also has to be a change in the law.[/b]


This verse talks about the ammendment grace brings. It also talks about Jesus being the new High priest. Just as only the levitical priests could offer atonement and enter into the holy of holies, Christ is the only perfect sacrifice for our sins and no man can enter the holy of holies / God's presence except through Christ.
The levitical priesthood is not perfect because being mere men, they die and they aren't greater than Abraham.
Melchizedech was a mysterious priest who had neither beginning nor end of days according to the bible. Abraham received blessings from Melchizedech meaning Melchizedech is greater than Abraham. So likewise Christ arose from the dead and is now immortal and he is greater than Abraham.

Several changes to the law were made because of grace but the law in itself is not abolished.

Christ fulfilled the law by offering blood for our sins, by keeping the sabbath day holy even in his death and resurrection, by keeping Jewish feasts and laws etc. When the adulterous woman was brought to him, did he say: "that law is wrong" don't touch her ? No, he instead said " let him that has no sin cast the first stone". He warned her go and sin no more, same with a man he healed. He said, go and sin no more.

What is sin ? Sin is disobedience to the law. The bible says : " Shall we now continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid "


The law still stands but grace covers it so much that we almost don't feel it again.

Some laws can't be practiced / were amended I'll list them for you.

1. Slavery doesn't exist anymore
2. Nobody keeps cows and the likes at home anymore
3. Fashion has changed from what it used to be.
4. The structure of the church has changed.
5. The mode of worship has changed in ways like using the blood/name of Jesus for forgiveness of sins, healing, casting out demons, praying to God, etc
6. Ability to pray from anywhere not just from the temple.
7. Freedom to eat what was once forbidden.
8. Ability to stand in the presence of God 24/7. Before, menstruation defiled women and anyone who touches her, sex defiled, dirty clothes defiled, not being full blooded jew from your 3rd or 5th ancestral line (from your parents upwards) defiled, sicknesses defiled, deformity defiled, miscarriage defiled, wrong hairstyle defiled etc but grace and the blood of Jesus has changed all that.
9. Blood sacrifice is now forbidden so we don't keep the feast of the passover, but we keep the Lord's supper.
10. Compulsory observation of holy days and celibacy has been stopped.

If I remember any more, I'll add. All these laws were stopped by Jesus and (or) the apostles in the new testament.

So we don't practice them. Anything else that they didn't condemn is lawful and biblical.

If Jesus and the blood of Jesus has covered us from 80% of the law, do we sweep away the remaining 20% to meet their brothers that are covered ? The bible says God forbid.
Any law not condemned still stands.

Tithing was never condemned by Jesus or the apostles. Let us not add or minus or misinterpret the bible.

I really felt moved to explain in detail to you. May the inspiration of the Almighty give you more understanding. I'll be happy to explain any other chapter to you. Just open a new thread and mention me there so we don't derail this one.

U just complicated urself....that scripture said the law was abolished....but U are saying some laws were not abolished...

12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.

18 For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness 19 (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God

.

Remember the bible says the law and not some laws like U claim.

hardasan:


Agreed. That law has been annulled.

But the same passage talks about a new law being in place

Heb ch 7
vs 12: For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law
vs 18: For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
vs 28: For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore

Heb ch 8
vs 7: For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
vs 10: For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
vs 13: In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away

It goes on and on
Via the highlighted verses, you can see that there is a new convenant and an old one. The word "convenant" and "law" were used interchangeably thoughout the highlighted verses.

What are U saying?

vs 12: For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law

In other words,If there is a new priesthood,there is also a NEW LAW!
How is that hard to understand for U to say this below

Via the highlighted verses, you can see that there is a new convenant and an old one

.

This statement of urs makes absolutely no sense at all....
U quoted a verse which states explicitly about a change from an obsolete law to a new law according to Hebrews 7:12
Romans 13:8-10 agrees with the scripture

8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

chisco82:

Please can you support the bolded with scriptural backup Or did you just assume that?

Gal 3:13 - Jesus redeemed us from the curse of the law. The curses mentioned in the old testament which comes with non-tithing (e.g. the tag of robbing God) were parts of the consequences of not keeping to the laws. If Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, how come believers (even non-Jewish/Gentile believers) in 2017 are still being threatened with Malachi 3?

The fact of the matter is that it is next to IMPOSSIBLE for anyone in 2017 to keep to the harsh requirements of the Mosaic laws. The religious 'extremists' at a time, i.e. the Pharisees, kept tormenting people for being unable to keep the laws to the letter, and Jesus constantly rebuked them for this... Jesus rebuked them for holding and pressing onto what He termed 'the unimportant components of the law' (i.e. tithing). Jesus also went out of his way to prove his point by healing the sick on a sabbath to the chagrin of the pharisees. But here we are today in 2017, Gentile believers who were never even subject to the LAW are are now being threatened/blackmailed with 'curses of the law' if they dont bring 10% of their earnings to a particular church.

(Just noticed I didnt push the 'send' button on this response a week ago)

obailala:
Gal 3:13 - Jesus redeemed us from the curse of the law. The curses mentioned in the old testament which comes with non-tithing (e.g. the tag of robbing God) were parts of the consequences of not keeping to the laws. If Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, how come believers (even non-Jewish/Gentile believers) in 2017 are still being threatened with Malachi 3?

The fact of the matter is that it is next to IMPOSSIBLE for anyone in 2017 to keep to the harsh requirements of the Mosaic laws. The religious 'extremists' at a time, i.e. the Pharisees, kept tormenting people for being unable to keep the laws to the letter, and Jesus constantly rebuked them for this... Jesus rebuked them for holding and pressing onto what He termed 'the unimportant components of the law' (i.e. tithing). Jesus also went out of his way to prove his point by healing the sick on a sabbath to the chagrin of the pharisees. But here we are today in 2017, Gentile believers who were never even subject to the LAW are are now being threatened/blackmailed with 'curses of the law' if they dont bring 10% of their earnings to a particular church.

(Just noticed I didnt push the 'send' button on this response a week ago)

It is wrong for anybody or pastor to treating anyone with the scripture.
The tithing to me is good but of choice, if you want to obey God fine and if you don't want it is a choice that one need to make.
I pay my tithe because i want to tap to that convenant blessing attarched to it, not because of what any man of God say.

chisco82:

It is wrong for anybody or pastor to treating anyone with the scripture.
The tithing to me is good but of choice, if you want to obey God fine and if you don't want it is a choice that one need to make.
I pay my tithe because i want to tap to that convenant blessing attarched to it, not because of what any man of God say.

Yeah but that's exactly where I have a problem with the pulpit messages of today, teaching that it is a 'command' from God when it should rather be a personal choice of the individual. Abraham paid a tithe out of his own volition, God did not instruct or command Abraham to pay it. When you use the phrase "obey God", you are simply implying that paying a tenth regularly is a command from God to all believers; that is the point preached in messages today which I dont agree with.

And the reason this little (but mighty) oversight in the gospel today is dangerous is because quite a large number of people who pay tithes today in all honesty do not do so out of a genuine desire to honour God, they rather do so out of a fear of the consequences for not obeying God's command and that's the reason many do not receive the benefits that follow 'free giving' as highlighted ib 2Cor 9:7.... The key question is, did God actually command all believers (including Gentile believers) under the new covenant to mandatorily pay a tenth of their income? The bible certainly doesnt have that message anywhere, so why is it being preached on the pulpits today?

obailala:
Yeah but that's exactly where I have a problem with the pulpit messages of today, teaching that it is a 'command' from God when it should rather be a personal choice of the individual. Abraham paid a tithe out of his own volition, God did not instruct or command Abraham to pay it. When you use the phrase "obey God", you are simply implying that paying a tenth regularly is a command from God to all believers; that is the point preached in messages today which I dont agree with.

And the reason this little (but mighty) oversight in the gospel today is dangerous is because quite a large number of people who pay tithes today in all honesty do not do so out of a genuine desire to honour God, they rather do so out of a fear of the consequences for not obeying God's command and that's the reason many do not receive the benefits that follow 'free giving' as highlighted ib 2Cor 9:7.... The key question is, did God actually command all believers (including Gentile believers) under the new covenant to mandatorily pay a tenth of their income? The bible certainly doesnt have that message anywhere, so why is it being preached on the pulpits today?

No, actually i see it as a command from God but never instruct anyone to enforce it on people, he gave us free will to make our choices.
Deuteronomy 30:19 KJV
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
So the choice is ours to make.

chisco82:

No, actually i see it as a command from God but never instruct anyone to enforce it on people, he gave us free will to make our choices.
Deuteronomy 30:19 KJV
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
So the choice is ours to make.

If you say it was a command from God, a command to who exactly?... The bible has no record of God (through the apostles) commanding Gentile Christians under the new covenant to pay any particular amount or percentage in the form of the old Jewish laws. The bible records Paul delivering the message of Christ to the Galatians, Corinthians, Ephesians, Philippians etc. In all of those missionary journeys, the bible never recorded anywhere the apostles commanded new covenant Gentile believers to pay any particular percentage of their income; on the contrary, Paul consistently admonished gentile believers wherever he went to to "give freely and without compulsion, whatever they made out in their hearts" (2Cor 9:7).

So my brother, where exactly was this command you talk of recorded in the bible to Christian believers (especially Gentiles which Nigeria is part of) under the new covenant?... Where did Christ or the apostles ever receive tithing?... If not from the old Jewish mosaic laws which Christ has redeemed us from, where exactly is this message coming from in the modern day church?

nairanaira12:

The problem is you don't really read your Bible.

Even the place he quoted, your mind is so blinded by pastor-sentiments while reading it that you failed to grasp all the essential points. If you had read it well, you wouldn't ask this question. It was fully answered in that place.

Why do you pastor slaves choose to worship your pastors more than God? You are even ready to reject /manipulate /misinterpret any part of the Bible that goes against your pastor. Is that the kind of Christianity Jesus and the apostles laid down for you to follow?


Are you guys real Christians or bunch of self-seeking hypocrites?

you did not answer my simple question and ur point is false accusation