Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles - Religion (4) - Nairaland
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| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by MightySparrow: 11:42am On Nov 24, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: People began to call on God because they knew He exists they built altars- a meeting place between God and man. They put food items there if He could eat. Abraham gave tithe to Melchizedek as a mark of faith: recognition,, love, and dependance. Jacob pledged his tithe to God if he would help him return to his father's house. This generation should even consider 10% too small except they want to use God achieve their goals and have nothing to give in return. There should be no controversy about tithing at all. 23 Thou hast not brought me the small cattle of thy burnt offerings; neither hast thou honoured me with thy sacrifices. I have not caused thee to serve with an offering, nor wearied thee with incense. 24 Thou hast bought me no sweet cane with money, neither hast thou filled me with the fat of thy sacrifices: but thou hast made me to serve with thy sins, thou hast wearied me with thine iniquities. Is. 46: 24 -25 |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by MightySparrow: 11:51am On Nov 24, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: Did Cain and Abel carry ebo? Where did they get the idea? |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by MightySparrow: 11:52am On Nov 24, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by lastmessenger: 12:12pm On Nov 24, 2017 |
petra1: my brother tithe is never a principle in the kingdom of God. Tithe is simply a practice of the isreal nation meant to support the Levi and the priesthood and sometimes the needy. Some is even meant to be used and enjoyed by the tither and his household. The fact that Abraham paid tithe once is never a justification for tasking Christians to pay tithe. As far as I know the Bible only admonished us to follow Abraham faith in God and not other thing. Abraham's daily life is never a standard for Christians to follow. Jesus Christ life is the standard. Paul talking about giving said everyone should give as he proposed in his heart because God loves a cheerful giver. If we should give as we proposed in our heart then no man has right to compel us to part with a fixed amount. In conclusion, supporting your local assembly is a good thing to do but no one should be under compulsion to do so. 2 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 12:47pm On Nov 24, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: I don’t o. Who was it sir |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 3:22pm On Nov 24, 2017 |
lastmessenger: Oh really ? What of offering Tithe is simply a practice of the isreal nation meant to support the Levi Tithe was already in practice before Israel and Levi were born and the priesthood and sometimes the needy. Some is even meant to be used and enjoyed by the tither and his household. That’s not the tithe to God . The 10% for the poor is not the same . It is only done every 3 years The fact that Abraham paid tithe once is never a justification for tasking Christians to pay tithe. The fact that his tithe was recorded once doesn’t mean he paid it once . It was a principle of faith revealed through Abraham as a way of worship . Remember Jacob tithed also. Jesus Christ life is the standard Jesus says to tithe Paul talking about giving said everyone should give as he proposed in his heart because God loves a cheerful giver. If we should give as we proposed in our heart then no man has right to compel us to part with a fixed amount. That was only for a special collection .it was a free will giving |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by MuttleyLaff: 8:10am On Nov 25, 2017 |
petra1:You were being haunted by a blast from the past popular self-confessed Word of Faith Sir |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by MuttleyLaff: 9:11am On Nov 25, 2017 |
petra1:Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. - Malachi 3:8 There you will bring your burnt offerings, your sacrifices, your tithes, your sacred offerings, your offerings to fulfill a vow, your voluntary offerings, and your offerings of the firstborn animals of your herds and flocks. - Deuteronomy 12:6 The offerings mentioned in Malachi 3:8 were of the burnt offerings, heave offerings etcetera kind similar to Deuteronomy 12:6 above so how do you mean "What of offerring"? What offerring are you talking of then? petra1:9In addition, we might even say that these Levites, the ones who collect the tithe, paid a tithe to Melchizedek when their ancestor Abraham paid a tithe to him. 10For although Levi wasn't born yet, the seed from which he came was in Abraham's body when Melchizedek collected the tithe from him. - Hebrews 7:9-10 Yes, this is correct, that tithe was already in practice before Israel and Levi were born but dont take a cursory of Hebrews 7:9-10, where it posits that before Levites were born, the Levites had already paid tithes via Abraham because I will refer to it next two steps down when responding to your "Remember Jacob tithed also" petra1:The only tithes to God are: 1) the Levitical tithe aka Mosaic Law tithe, which are given to the priest (e.g. Levite) and 2) the Abraham type of tithe, given to a priest cum king (i.e. Melchizedek) - see #3 below Other tithes in a secular world context (i.e. tenth, 1/10, 10% and possibly 0.1) are given 1) at pagan temples to priest(s) (note extra biblical references will be provided upon request, same with #3 below) 2) Upon the king's demand's (note bible references will be provided upon request) 3) to local ruler cum priest worthy of the consideration, after taking up arms, go to fight and winning battle fight(s) or war petra1:No principle of faith was revealed through Abraham. Abraham, simply was following a custom practice that needed to be carried after successful win(s) fighting a battle or war petra1:And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land. - Genesis 35:12 And the LORD said unto him, This is the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, saying, I will give it unto thy seed: I have caused thee to see it with thine eyes, but thou shalt not go over thither. - Deuteronomy 34:4 Jacob did not tithe Jacob did not tithe because it was going to be the Israelite that wasn't born yet who will do the tithing The seed from which the Israelites came was in Jacob's body It is this seed 430 years plus later who will take up arms, go to fight and winning battle fight(s) or war to have the land The format of how the tithe vow will be claimed by God took a different turn because of the Israelite's flagrant and offending golden calf misbehaviour petra1:It was under the present circumstances, that Jesus says to tithe, not after The Greek original word, "die", used in Matthew 23:23, means, it is necessary, that they tithe but when that necessity is over, that duty or responsibility for them to do it, is no longer required Jesus didnt say give ecclesiastical tithe Ecclesiastical tithe, is where a christian gathering, taxes its members tenth, 1/10, 10% and possibly 0.1 too, of their financial income petra1:You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure. (i.e. you shouldn't be sorry that you gave or feel forced to give) "For God loves a person who gives cheerfully." - 2 Corinthians 9:7 1Now about the collection for the Lord’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. 3Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem. - 1 Corinthians 16:1-3 This is the principle of church support, recommended and laid down as a revolutionary way of giving, which believers are instructed or urged in 2 Corinthians 9:7 to do 1 Corinthians 16:1-3, isnt only for a special collection Yes, it is a free will giving but it is, the example, of how church is to be supported 2 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by MuttleyLaff: 9:19am On Nov 25, 2017 |
MightySparrow: MuttleyLaff: MightySparrow:All Abel did, was a burnt offerring, so God can savor the smell not "... put food on the altars to feed Him if He eats" When you typed "... put food on the altars to feed Him if He eats" it just reminded me of those black pots, with palm oil, ekuro and all sorts placed at a three junction street for the gods to eat 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by MightySparrow: 9:53am On Nov 25, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff:. I think we are talking Bible here, if God of Israel preferred burnt offering fine, but this is a digression from the main discourse - tithing and his most biblical doctrines evolved. I talked about altars not road junctions. Iam not sure such was or is practice of Arabs |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 12:07pm On Nov 25, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: WOF advocate won't attack tithe na |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by MuttleyLaff: 7:23pm On Nov 25, 2017 |
petra1:I don't know about attacks on tithe. What I personally, have all along been having with you and any other person for that matter, has been a healthy dialogue and conversation Now this particular WoF doesn't believe in tithes the manner the church goes about it and did in past have a mild spat with you over them. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 4:43am On Dec 04, 2017 |
Goshen360: Wrong THOU ART! jumping from levitical tithe to Abraham just whenever it's okay and convenient as long as he can win an argument. He will make reckless statement like "tithe is tithe". Ask him is Abraham tithe same as Levitical tithe? He goes....it's the same principles ....lmbo � � � Because the principle cut Accross . You can if we should give offering according to Levi or Abel . The process may differ . The point is OFFERING GOES WITH WORSHIP . Don’t be legalistic. Looking for for comas and colon . But the big picture 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Goshen360(m): 4:50am On Dec 04, 2017 |
petra1: Lol....if the .....e.g worship has changed, why wouldn't the offering change? Lol. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 7:26am On Dec 05, 2017 |
Goshen360: Mode of worship may differ . It's not about the nitty gritty but the principle . The principle will always be there . Offering will always be a principle . Whatever you give to a God Is offering ,be it time money ,service etc . |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 9:52pm On Dec 06, 2017 |
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| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by nicemuyoo: 12:20am On Dec 09, 2017 |
The Spirit behind tithing and offering Is to help the less previlage especially of the house hold of faith. Not church organisation. Since God's temple is in believers you ought to direct the giving to such individuals so that non is lacking amongst you. This was what happened in early church. It's all about people not clergy or a registered church organisation petra1: 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 3:16am On Dec 09, 2017 |
[quote author=nicemuyoo post=63108760]The Spirit behind tithing and offering Is to help the less previlage [/quote ] Wrong ! Tithe and offering is to God in worship .whixh is used for welfare of Men of God or or full time ministers Leviticus 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's: it is holy unto the lord Numbers 18:21-25 21 And, behold, I have given the Levites all the tithes in Israel for an inheritance in return for their service which they serve, the [menial] service of the Tent of Meeting. especially of the house hold of faith. Not church organisation. Since God's temple is in believers you ought to direct the giving to such individuals so that non is lacking amongst you. This was what happened in early church. It's all about people not clergy or a registered church organisation There are different kinds of giving in the Bible Tithes , offering , alms, etc . You can give alms to the poor but tithe and offering is to God . |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by nicemuyoo: 10:33am On Dec 09, 2017 |
ec 03 22. TITHING DID NOT BECOME A LAW IN THE CHURCH UNTIL A.D. 777: The earliest Christian assemblies patterned themselves after the Jewish synagogues which were led by rabbis who, like Paul, refused to gain a profit from preaching and teaching God’s Word. There are many books on Jewish social life which explain this in great detail. From Christ’s death until Christianity became a legally recognized religion almost 300 years later, the majority of great church leaders took self-imposed vows of poverty. This is historically documented! They took Jesus’ words to the rich young ruler in Luke 18:22 literally “sell all that you have, give it to the poor, and follow me.” Most church historians agree that these early church leaders for at least the first 200 years worked for a living and were self-supporting. A Christian leader could not tell a Roman census-taker that he was a full-time preacher of an outlaw religion. Clement of Rome (c95), Justin Martyr (c150), Irenaeus (c150-200) and Tertullian (c150-220) all opposed tithing as a strictly Jewish tradition. The Didache (c150-200) condemns traveling apostles who stay longer than three days and ask for money. And travelers who decided to remain with them were required to learn a trade. These early opponents of tithing are not quoted by tithe-teachers. Cyprian (200-258) tried unsuccessfully to impose tithing in Carthage, North Africa around A. D. 250. At his conversion Cyprian gave away great wealth to the poor and lived under a vow of poverty. His idea of tithing included equal re-distribution to the poor. And –we must remember—his ideas of tithing were not adopted. When tithe-teachers quote Ambrose, Chrysostom and Augustine as church fathers they conveniently leave out the first 200 years of church history. Even after Christianity became legal in the fourth century many of the greatest spiritual leaders took vows of deep poverty and preferred to live unmarried lives in monasteries. If these tithe-teachers are quoted, then the church should also be told what kind of lives they usually led. While disagreeing with their own theologians, most church historians write that tithing did not become a legally enforced doctrine in the church for over 700 years after the cross. According to the very best sources it took over 500 years before a local church Council of Macon in France, in the year 585, tried unsuccessfully to enforce tithing on its members. It was not until the year 777 that Charlemagne legally allowed the church to collect tithes. That is the history of tithing found in the Encyclopedia Britannica, Encyclopedia Americana and the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia. [quote author=petra1 post=63109909][/quote] |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by nicemuyoo: 10:35am On Dec 09, 2017 |
There is a clear difference between scriptural-historical truth and theological teachings on tithe/ tithing and various other topics. Today i would be mentioning some conclusive statement on tithing based on scriptures and historical facts. 1. Tithe are natural agricultural produce and never money. You 're allow to covert It to money under certain circumstances but you must convert back to acceptable agricultural produce before paying your tithe. If you don't you have to pay a penalty fine on top of your tithe money and once paid it s converted back to food by levies in charge. This was to discourage money tithing. 2. The tithe was a tax system to cater for levites( administrators, judges, teachers etc), widows, orphans, strangers etc. 3. Only increase from selected natural produces from the land of Isreal are acceptable as tithe .you can not pay tithe on from produce from another land 4. A carpenter, farm labourer, fisherman etc do not tithe. Disciples, jesus, never paid tithe. Only people with farmland and livestocks paid tithe on their increase. 5. The tithe is never used for anything other than to feed levites, widows, orphans etc.never used for temple/ church building or any other services. It is an abomination. 6. Temples/ services are run with temple tax a token contribution from each adult. Building is done by voluntary participation and donations. 7. Only a priest/ levites/ tithers/ less privileged eg widows are allowed to enjoy the tithe. 8. Today all who have accepted salvation are priest of the most high , we have one HIGH PRIEST, THE MESSIAH HIMSELF. 9. Tithe was never collected in the early churches. BUT was introduced by roman Catholic church to fund building of huge cathedrals and to pay fat salaries to priest/ bishops. It was Actually imposed on people backed by government law. It was a polished after a public revolt by the people.. It was also abolished in UK after a massive riot. The historic peasant riot. 10. This tithe system was adopted by many countries in Europe to cater for less priviledge in the society hence benefit payments/ food stamps etc. This is completely absent in many African countries today. Folks know the truth and it would set you free. [quote author=petra1 post=63109909][/quote] 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by nicemuyoo: 10:38am On Dec 09, 2017 |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 3:10pm On Dec 10, 2017 |
nicemuyoo: He is very wrong |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by nicemuyoo: 10:37pm On Dec 10, 2017 |
Proof it biblically. petra1: 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by nicemuyoo: 10:40pm On Dec 10, 2017 |
What happens to the tithe who partake of it? The bloodline levies widows strangers etc. Fact. A pastor is not and never would be a levite. All believes are priests. But we have one HIGH PRIEST the messiah himself [quote author=petra1 post=63109909][/quote] |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 7:34am On Dec 11, 2017 |
nicemuyoo: The Jews were priest also . But we have one HIGH PRIEST the messiah himself Its Christ who receives our tithes .in the order of Melchizedek 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by nicemuyoo: 9:32am On Dec 11, 2017 |
The Hebrew chapter you are referring; Paul showed the superiority of Yashua's covenant and priesthood! Over the levites priesthood and mosaic covenant. Now you have taken an example of comparison to proof that yahshua covenant and priesthood is superior for those Hebrews that needed clarity, twisted it to show that yahshua collects tithe which never happened during and after his death. This pure false teachings. Twisting scriptures. Paul never collected tithe for yahshua all the days of his life. Yahshua, Peter, James, Philip etc never taught or collected tithe. The early church fathers where oppose to tithe until it was imposed by roman emperor on churches in time in 777 AD . This is a Fact!!. If you collect offerings/ donations as voluntary fine. petra1: 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 3:55am On Dec 17, 2017 |
nicemuyoo: yashua was not our higpriest until death |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by nicemuyoo: 10:40am On Dec 17, 2017 |
After His death he never collected tithe. Peter, James, john and Paul never taught or collected tithe. The early church never collected tithe. The first tithe was collected after 777AD. by roman Catholic church petra1: 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Sheddywiz(m): 1:38pm On Dec 17, 2017 |
Know the whole truth about tithe. dont be deceived by petty arguments and blasphemous words about tithing. click on link below for a detailed review of tithing. https://www.nairaland.com/4226027/truth-tithing-pastor-murphy-akpovi |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 12:02pm On Dec 18, 2017 |
nicemuyoo: He is highpriest over our tithe ,offering,prayers and any work of service Peter, James, john and Paul never taught or collected tithe. The early church never collected tithe. The first tithe was collected after 777AD. by roman Catholic church Numbers 18:21-25 21 And, behold, I have given the Levites all the tithes in Israel for an inheritance in return for their service which they serve, the [menial] service of the Tent of Meeting. 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 (KJV) Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by nicemuyoo: 1:12pm On Dec 18, 2017 |
No amount of scriptural truth would make you accept what Peter, Paul, James, early church believe on tithing. They never taught or accepted tithe. petra1: 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 7:21am On Dec 19, 2017 |
nicemuyoo: What do they believe |
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