Kai see as them flog my wife for this thread.

Not fair. lol.

I do hope americans living in America know a bit more more about their system and what goes there, than Canadians who dont live in America?

not to mention I think its universally known that immigrants may actually receive better access to certain services than indigenes- itself a very sore point in some quarters?

People living in Canada are convinced the Canadian system is best for the US. Why is that? Have you lived in the US before?

what's the total population of Canada?

Of course the bill has been passed and that's that, but is it actually being sponsored by outside parties?

@JeSoul,

Tayo, the counter argument to that - and I think its a very valid one - is that premiums are going up anyways. I don't recall exactly but I think it was detroit where the avg premium was expected to rise 70% this yr alone. Here in Mass it was estimated to rise about 30-40%.

And my premium did not go up by 30% even though I do not have a public option inusrance as you do in MA. The point is there are other very reasonable way top deal with skyrocketing prices that were ignored. I will details some of these as I am chanced.

I think democrats have a strong argument in that regards. Its not like we have control over prices and costs now, they've been rising steadily every year. What remains to be seen is whether or not this bill will slow the pace or increase it.

Do you know that govt mandates is part of the reason why we have these balloning prices? Do you realise that I would have opted for a less expensive coverage if it was avaialable? I have to maintain the one I have because the insurance companies were mandated to provide some minimum coverage which is a waste as far as I am concerned. I can't intelligently choose some options because someone in Washington or St Paul has decided I must have and pay for something I do not need.

Tayo-D:

Do you know that govt mandates is part of the reason why we have these balloning prices? Do you realise that I would have opted for a less expensive coverage if it was avaialable? I have to maintain the one I have because the insurance companies were mandated to provide some minimum coverage which is a waste as far as I am concerned. I can't intelligently choose some options because someone in Washington or St Paul has decided I must have and pay for something I do not need.

there are no govt mandates now, why are the prices going up?
Actually you're lying there . . . infact with the increase in premiums a lot of the insurance companies are betting on losing a lot more customers.

The reason insurance premiums are so high is because of folks who reason like you. You dont think you shld buy maximum coverage because "i do not need it". When you now need insurance you go ahead and purchase it, where did you think the money paid out for your healthcare came from? It came from those who purchased maximum coverage long long before they needed the insurance!

that is the reason we now have a mandate . . . so that pple like you would stop scamming the rest of us!

@Busy_Body,

Hello bone of my bone  Where the hell have ya been, spent the whole winter without my favourite blanket  but thank God for this bill ehn

I thot we had an understanding that I can change blankets each season.  Now that winter is over, you will see more of me this spring, darling .

This new legislation is good because, before, you pay health insurance for years only for you to need to make a claim and have these unscrupulous insurance companies start backtracking and investigating in order to wriggle out of paying and start telling you they cannot pay out because you did not tell them you had any pre-existing medical condition before,  but now they can no longer hide under that, i should know . . . You should know, too, that this is the same way loads of car insurance companies try to avoid paying too

You can only be denied based on pre-existing conditions if you knowingly hide a major health problem while buying insurance. That is the economic thing to do. The insurance companies like other companies are in business for economic reasons while providing health services.

Let me make this easy too by giving you a scenario.  Do you think a life insurance company will let you buy a $1 million life insurance for a $10 monthly premium when you've been diagnosed to have terminal cancer and have just 6 months to live? That is a pre-existing condition and such an insurance company will turn you down outright.  Why are people surprised same is done by health insurance companies?

@Davidylan,

I dont blame you. Thank God your kids werent born with health problems. You folks disgust me with your selfish responses.

Selfish? I just finished preparing my taxes for last year. My wife and me gave over 20% of our income to charity. Please come back and call me selfish if you gave half of that to others this past year.

It's funny how you ignored the points I raised and started attacking my person. You will do well to ignore my post if you can't handle the points. I have no time to deal with your childishness.

@David,

there are no govt mandates now, why are the prices going up?

You see how ignorant you are? You do not know that each State has its own mandate on healthcare? Why do you think some people are talking about crossing State lines to buy health insurance where its chaeaper due to less mandates? What about the fact that current laws forbid crossing State lines to buy insurance? what are those? Recommendations?

Actually you're lying there . . . infact with the increase in premiums a lot of the insurance companies are betting on losing a lot more customers.

Your ignorance of how the market operates beggars belief. You mean the insurance companies are basically putting themselves out of busniess by delibeartely shrinking their market base? Please stop and reason a little bit.

The reason insurance premiums are so high is because of folks who reason like you. You dont think you shld buy maximum coverage because "i do not need it". When you now need insurance you go ahead and purchase it, where did you think the money paid out for your healthcare came from? It came from those who purchased maximum coverage long long before they needed the insurance!

This is how ignorant you are. I have a car insurance right now that I wish our health insurance will be patterned after. My car insurance does not cover my every visit to the mechanic for an oil change, it does not cover my car wash, parking fees etc. As for our health insurance on the other hand, we are told our insurance companies have to pay for every time we visit the Doctor even for routing check-ups. They have to pay for every time I vist the Dentist to clean my teeth etc. Why wont the premium be so high?

Do you think car insurance will be this cheap if they have to factor in all our visits to the workshop? This is some simple common sense that eludes people like you. In addition to paying for the visit, they will pay for all the administrative costs that come with the visit. In many cases, those administrative costs will be higher than the Doctor's fees. And while the inurance companies keep factoring all of these in their baseline, the premiums keep rising.

that is the reason we now have a mandate . . . so that pple like you would stop scamming the rest of us!

Scam you? Are you for real? I am a conservative. I believe in paying for what I use. If more people with your persuasion take responsibility for their lives like people from my persuasion do of ours, we wouldn't be in this mess. I expect nothing from you, and you will do well to expect same from me. Live and let live is one thing you need to teach people on the Left!

Tayo-D:

@David,
You see how ignorant you are? You do not know that each State has its own mandate on healthcare? Why do you think some people are talking about crossing State lines to buy health insurance where its chaeaper due to less mandates? What about the fact that current laws forbid crossing State lines to buy insurance? what are those? Recommendations?

1. which "mandates" are you talking about? If each state had mandates already then why are 13 state AGs suing the federal government for including MANDATES in this healthcare bill?

2. Crossing state lines to buy insurance wont work at reducing prices. I'm sorry but opting to go buy a flat screen TV in Texas all the way from NY does not guarantee lower prices.

Tayo-D:

Your ignorance of how the market operates beggars belief. You mean the insurance companies are basically putting themselves out of busniess by delibeartely shrinking their market base? Please stop and reason a little bit.

YES . . . that is what has been happening all along . . .

See the news - Insurer targeted HIV patients to drop coverage

health insurance companies routinely drop the sick, those with pre-existing conditions and the elderly from coverage to maximise profits while raising premiums on the young and healthy. Its all a game.

Tayo-D:

This is how ignorant you are. I have a car insurance right now that I wish our health insurance will be patterned after. My car insurance does not cover my every visit to the mechanic for an oil change, it does not cover my car wash, parking fees etc. As for our health insurance on the other hand, we are told our insurance companies have to pay for every time we visit the Doctor even for routing check-ups. They have to pay for every time I vist the Dentist to clean my teeth etc. Why wont the premium be so high?

This is quite silly. Your premiums are higher BECAUSE:

1. those without insurance can basically walk into the ER, get treatment and go free. YOU (the ignorant noise makers) pick up the tab with your premiums.

2. The healthy (like you) refuse to get insurance and only buy one when you are sick. Where do you think the money to pay for all the medical bills come from? The sky high premiums of those with insurance!

That is why the mandates are kicking in. the larger the pool of the healthy, the lower the premiums are for everyone. think a ponzi scheme, that is how it works.

Tayo-D:

Do you think car insurance will be this cheap if they have to factor in all our visits to the workshop? This is some simple common sense that eludes people like you. In addition to paying for the visit, they will pay for all the administrative costs that come with the visit. In many cases, those administrative costs will be higher than the Doctor's fees. And while the inurance companies keep factoring all of these in their baseline, the premiums keep rising.

which is why your premiums are so high too. "administrative costs" are about 30% of what the insurance companies pay out. The government on the other hand would spend less than 5% on administrative costs. Sorry i thot you said the private guys were more efficient.

Tayo-D:

Scam you? Are you for real? I am a conservative. I believe in paying for what I use. If more people with your persuasion take responsibility for their lives like people from my persuasion do of ours, we wouldn't be in this mess. I expect nothing from you, and you will do well to expect same from me. Live and let live is one thing you need to teach people on the Left!

That's a fraudulent lie! If you fell sick today and had to be on medication for the whole yr you'd be getting way more out of your insurance than you paid in. All the money would be coming from those of us who have been paying for insurance without using it.

Tayo-D:

Scam you? Are you for real? I am a conservative. I believe in paying for what I use. If more people with your persuasion take responsibility for their lives like people from my persuasion do of ours, we wouldn't be in this mess. I expect nothing from you, and you will do well to expect same from me. Live and let live is one thing you need to teach people on the Left!

You sir are advocating anarchy not a state. this is the prevailing mindset in nigeria, it is no wonder you emigrated from it.

why dont you go back and live in nigeria? they practice the nonsense you're advocating to a T. We dont expect light, water, good roads from the government neither do they expect taxes from you.

unbelievable that someone would write such drivel.

Health Insurance Reform from the "horses mouth"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp=36038704&#36038704

@Davidylan,

1. which "mandates" are you talking about? If each state had mandates already then why are 13 state AGs suing the federal government for including MANDATES in this healthcare bill?

They are suing that every person will be forced to buy health insurance or be fined. You obvously don't know anything about what you are passionatley defending. By the way, the fact that you do not know that each State has its own mandate on the inusrance companies clearly potrays you as having no idea what is going on.

2. Crossing state lines to buy insurance wont work at reducing prices. I'm sorry but opting to go buy a flat screen TV in Texas all the way from NY does not guarantee lower prices.

Not if Texas mandates that all the flat screen sold in their State must be at least 75" wide. I will go buy a 50" screen in other States if that is what I can afford.

YES . . . that is what has been happening all along . . .See the news - Insurer targeted HIV patients to drop coverage. health insurance companies routinely drop the sick, those with pre-existing conditions and the elderly from coverage to maximise profits while raising premiums on the young and healthy. Its all a game

Routingely drop their customers? You mean the customers voluntarily drop their insurance because of higher premiums? You have been fed a bowl of half-truths. People who claim to be dropped are basically hiding the fact that they dropped out because they could not afford or choose not to buy the insurance. I switch my health insurance company last year because they got rather more expensive. I went for one which was cheaper.

Tayo-D:

@Davidylan,
They are suing that every person will be forced to buy health insurance or be fined. You obvously don't know anything about what you are passionatley defending. By the way, the fact that you do not know that each State has its own mandate on the inusrance companies clearly potrays you as having no idea what is going on.

hmm the state mandates you talk about is NOT the same as the mandates in the healthcare bill. Only this bill imposes a tax on everyone who does not carry health insurance. The fact that both are called "mandates" does not make them the same.

I think you're deliberately and dishonestly mixing up the 2.

Tayo-D:

Not if Texas mandates that all the flat screen sold in their State must be at least 75" wide. I will go buy a 50" screen in other States if that is what I can afford.

That may be a workable idea in that case.

Tayo-D:

Routingely drop their customers? You mean the customers voluntarily drop their insurance because of higher premiums? You have been fed a bowl of half-truths. People who claim to be dropped are basically hiding the fact that they dropped out because they could not afford or choose not to buy the insurance. I switch my health insurance company last year because they got rather more expensive. I went for one which was cheaper.

i put up a link as an example of what happens on a daily basis. some insurance companies wont even take you because of "pre-existing" conditions. You seem to live in a bubble where everything is like cinderella's garden.

@Davidylan,

1. those without insurance can basically walk into the ER, get treatment and go free. YOU (the ignorant noise makers) pick up the tab with your premiums.

I thot you guys were claiming before that the sick are deprived of healthcare in the US because they are poor.  You need to take a stand (even if it is an ignorant one) and stick to it.

2. The healthy (like you) refuse to get insurance and only buy one when you are sick. Where do you think the money to pay for all the medical bills come from? The sky high premiums of those with insurance

Do you know what insurance means? If you do, you won't be making this kind of ignorant statement.

That is why the mandates are kicking in. the larger the pool of the healthy, the lower the premiums are for everyone. think a ponzi scheme, that is how it works.

Why don't you teach libnearls personal responsibility.  Our problem will be half-solved if liberals become more repsonsible.

which is why your premiums are so high too. "administrative costs" are about 30% of what the insurance companies pay out. The government on the other hand would spend less than 5% on administrative costs. Sorry i thot you said the private guys were more efficient.

Are u serious?  Govt more efficient? Tell me you are joking right?

That's a fraudulent lie! If you fell sick today and had to be on medication for the whole yr you'd be getting way more out of your insurance than you paid in. All the money would be coming from those of us who have been paying for insurance without using it.

Like I said previously, if you understand what insurance mean, you won't be talking this ignorantly.  I measured my risk and took adequate steps to protect my finances.  The insurance companies will pay my bill not minding if they get the money form others or not.  People like me is not the problem, it is the govt-dependent people that is populated mostly by the Left and sadly by the Black community have increasingly grown dependent on the govt that is the problem.

@Davidlyan,

You sir are advocating anarchy not a state. this is the prevailing mindset in nigeria, it is no wonder you emigrated from it.

You mean it is anarchy when people live responsibly and take care of their own business without being a burden to their neighbours? Let me tell you what anarchy is. It is GREECE. That is what happens when people are too dependent on central authority.

why dont you go back and live in nigeria? they practice the nonsense you're advocating to a T. We dont expect light, water, good roads from the government neither do they expect taxes from you

How does this bear resemblance to what I am talking about? We do pay taxes in Nigeria. Only that the corruption makes it dissapear.

unbelievable that someone would write such drivel.

Ubleievable that I believe in human dignity and the concept that a man should be expected to eat the fruits of his labor without somebody somewhere thinking they have a right to the fruits of his labor? What a world this is turning into!

@Davidylan,

hmm the state mandates you talk about is NOT the same as the mandates in the healthcare bill. Only this bill imposes a tax on everyone who does not carry health insurance. The fact that both are called "mandates" does not make them the same.
I think you're deliberately and dishonestly mixing up the 2.

No. You are the one that needs to understand what you are talking about. How can you address the rising costs without understanding why it is so high in the first place?

That may be a workable idea in that case.

Not MAY, it is a workable idea. If people can be allowed to buy what I call "catastrophic insurance" where they will be covered in the event of a major physical crisis, you will see how cheap the cost of insurance will become. Everyone will most likely buy the insurance without mandates and there wont be the problem we have today.

i put up a link as an example of what happens on a daily basis. some insurance companies wont even take you because of "pre-existing" conditions. You seem to live in a bubble where everything is like cinderella's garden.

I understand fully well what is going on. My wife and I went shopping for life insurance a feww years ago when she was pregnant. Of course the insurance company refused to cover my wife because of her pre-existing condition (pregancy). I understand why they do not want to assume such a risk. If we think its stupid to have people go buy car insurance after they have had an accident, why would this be any different? Let's get the emotions out of this to be able to deal with it properly.

I watched an interview by a Catholic Nun who suppported the healthcare bill. She said about 45,000 people may be dying in the US yearly because they lack health insurance. The first thing that occured to me is this. As rich as the catholic church is, can't they set up hospitals and retain the services of Doctors to meet the needs of these people? Why must we hand everything over to Ceasar? There is something fundamentally wrong with that picture!

hmmm

davidylan:

1. which "mandates" are you talking about? If each state had mandates already then why are 13 state AGs suing the federal government for including MANDATES in this healthcare bill?

2. Crossing state lines to buy insurance wont work at reducing prices. I'm sorry but opting to go buy a flat screen TV in Texas all the way from NY does not guarantee lower prices.

YES . . . that is what has been happening all along . . .

See the news - Insurer targeted HIV patients to drop coverage

health insurance companies routinely drop the sick, those with pre-existing conditions and the elderly from coverage to maximise profits while raising premiums on the young and healthy. Its all a game.

This is quite silly. Your premiums are higher BECAUSE:

1. those without insurance can basically walk into the ER, get treatment and go free. YOU (the ignorant noise makers) pick up the tab with your premiums.

2. The healthy (like you) refuse to get insurance and only buy one when you are sick. Where do you think the money to pay for all the medical bills come from? The sky high premiums of those with insurance!

That is why the mandates are kicking in. the larger the pool of the healthy, the lower the premiums are for everyone. think a ponzi scheme, that is how it works.

which is why your premiums are so high too. "administrative costs" are about 30% of what the insurance companies pay out. The government on the other hand would spend less than 5% on administrative costs. Sorry i thot you said the private guys were more efficient.

That's a fraudulent lie! If you fell sick today and had to be on medication for the whole yr you'd be getting way more out of your insurance than you paid in. All the money would be coming from those of us who have been paying for insurance without using it.

I'm a little late to this gig but well done David. You've done a yeoman's job dispelling the misinformation spewed by rightwing loonies about HCR. Nice one bro

alicianna:

Personally, I only have the public health care coverage. Its not as basic as most people think. Do you know it actually covers MRI’s , Chemotherapy and a whole lot of other things. Most people who don’t live in Canada don’t know this.

You can get private or extra insurance which is referred to as “ extended health care coverage” through your job , if they provide it or you can personally buy one yourself. So yes , if you can afford it.

To answer your second question. The private and public are the same. When it comes to the
For -profit- clinics, I wouldn’t say better doctors or better equipments, just a lot of razzle dazzle

Thanks! Your info has been very enlightening

Tayo-D:

@JeSoul,
And my premium did not go up by 30% even though I do not have a public option inusrance as you do in MA. The point is there are other very reasonable way top deal with skyrocketing prices that were ignored. I will details some of these as I am chanced.

This I think is the heart of the whole matter . . .
   

Do you know that govt mandates is part of the reason why we have these balloning prices? Do you realise that I would have opted for a less expensive coverage if it was avaialable? I have to maintain the one I have because the insurance companies were mandated to provide some minimum coverage which is a waste as far as I am concerned. I can't intelligently choose some options because someone in Washington or St Paul has decided I must have and pay for something I do not need.

Very good point. This is one huge problem with our system in Mass. You get coverage thru the "public option", it has to meet the standards of "sufficient insurance" that the govt sets or else we suffer hefty tax penalties. It makes no sense. I couldn't afford the cost in the first place yet you're going to tax me for not having it?

  As for the option to pick which kinds of coverage you want being more practical, I am with you 1000%. I have discussed that very point with David before. I pay 100% out of pocket for all my optometry needs and I am fine with that. Rather than paying an additional $800 a month only to use only 10% of it in reality.

  Tayo what is your take on the burden of illegal immigrants? how should the govt. handle issue of them using ER for practically free of charge and sometimes even as their primary care?

I had to fight my own inclination to respond to this sheer piece of republican propaganda. I think those who repeat it need to be returned to kindergarten classes.

The government programs are "extraordinarily inefficient"? The same government that maintains the most powerful military on earth? the same government that maintains 911 emergency services, maintains a space program, maintains medicare and VA that no one would dare do away with?

Let me stop here . . .

I beg shut up there,  the most powerful military wen never win any war since WWII? Total waste of my hard-earned money to fund useless projects. You and all the health care supporters probably believe Osama Bin Laden was the mastermind behind the 911 attacks? Make una siddon dere dey believe in useless politicians. Any govt. that tells me they know-more than I do-what is best for me is tyrannical.

My only dissatisfaction is that the FG mandated that everyone "MUST" purchase insurance, in my own view I think its good and bad in its own way. Come to think of it, AG Kenneth Cuccilnelli for my state; VA is leading the lawsuit against the FG over "Breach of Authority" which I think personally is just a waste of time. At the end of the day, it would end up in the Supreme Court which is like more than two years away or even more. Point is the law would have been in effect for all that while and we would see a lil bit of its outcome by the time they hear the case and decide on it.

manny4life:

My only dissatisfaction is that the FG mandated that everyone "MUST" purchase insurance, in my own view I think its good and bad in its own way. Come to think of it, AG Kenneth Cuccilnelli for my state; VA is leading the lawsuit against the FG over "Breach of Authority" which I think personally is just a waste of time. At the end of the day, it would end up in the Supreme Court which is like more than two years away or even more. Point is the law would have been in effect for all that while and we would see a lil bit of its outcome by the time they hear the case and decide on it.

  Maybe the FG will go about it the Massachusetts way.

On our state tax returns, there is a section you have to fill in your health insurance information. And you must have been covered for at least 20 days I think and currently be covered as of filing.

This is the key thing: there is an option to check that "if you didn't have health insurance, was it due to a deeply held religious belief or faith?" -  if you check yes, you don't get penalized on your taxes. I am sure the FG will go this route and in effect defeat the legal challenges that many states are threatening. We'll see.

Massachusetts have the public option, but the FG package doesn't have the public option, last time I heard about it, it was scrapped out. If you refuse insurance because of faith or belief, then you should not be entitled to the benefits as well. As for the legal challenge, I don't think that would stand. The anger of AG's is that FG overstepped its authority because the U.S. Constitution. This are excerpts

"With this law, the federal government will force citizens to buy health insurance, claiming it has the authority to do so because of its power to regulate interstate commerce. We contend that if a person decides not to buy health insurance, that person – by definition – is not engaging in commerce, and therefore, is not subject to a federal mandate.

Virginia is in a unique situation that allows it the standing to file such a suit since Virginia is the only state so far to pass a law protecting its citizens from a government-imposed mandate to buy health insurance. The health care reform bill, with its insurance mandate, creates a conflict of laws between the federal government and Virginia. Normally, such conflicts are decided in favor of the federal government, but because we believe the federal law is unconstitutional, Virginia’s law should prevail.

Just being alive is not interstate commerce. If it were, there would be no limit to the U.S. Constitution’s commerce clause and to Congress’s authority to regulate everything we do. There has never been a point in our history where the federal government has been given the authority to require citizens to buy goods or services.

The suit will be filed in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, Richmond Division.

Obama challenged them on Thursday for them to repeal it, trust me this is gonna be a real showdown. However, I still "in part" support the plan and oppose some of it as well, but let's all keep an open mind.

manny4life:

Massachusetts have the public option, but the FG package doesn't have the public option, last time I heard about it, it was scrapped out. If you refuse insurance because of faith or belief, then you should not be entitled to the benefits as well. As for the legal challenge, I don't think that would stand. The anger of AG's is that FG overstepped its authority because the U.S. Constitution. This are excerpts

Yeah you're right. And I would contend that Obama is right now thinking of every conceivable way of ramming a public option into the package preferably before Nov, or at the worst before his term is up.

Obama challenged them on Thursday for them to repeal it, trust me this is gonna be a real showdown. However, I still "in part" support the plan and oppose some of it as well, but let's all keep an open mind.

Lol, na real showdown. With all the venom being poured out from left and right, this makes for very good theatre lol.

Oh Manny one more thing.

The Mass "Public Option" is not really a public option in the literal sense and I don't think many people know this. There is no "government plan" that people can choose to buy from. What we have is the MA Health Connector which is pretty much a collection of private market-based insurance companies/plans that give people different options.  (I think I'll open a new thread as many people are not aware of this).

this thread is bogged down with so much Faux nooze-esque misinformation that i lost interest responding to it.

Tayo-D obviously doesnt understand the difference between the "mandates" contained in the HC reform bill and the insurance state mandates. What's the point responding to his noise-making?

@Davidylan,

Tayo-D obviously doesnt understand the difference between the "mandates" contained in the HC reform bill and the insurance state mandates. What's the point responding to his noise-making?

You are so ignorant, it beggars belief. Here is someone who is not even aware that each State has a different health insurance mandate turning around to accuse the one who informed him of such, ill-informed! You really need to learn to debate and to understand what is being said before you retort with all the NBC talking points.

Its surely a waste of time talking to you. As someone who have been through these issues first hand and have had the personal esxperience of actively seeking options that are not available because of govt mandates, it's laughable to see such an ignorant person repeating his favorite politician's talking points in response to issues raised.

Please have a doughnut with the cool-aid that has been giving to you. I wish you Godspeed!

I know this thread will be chock-a-block with the liberal Spin MAchine, I didn't even bother to read it, hope I'm wrong, but anyways:
YES WE DID Right!!!!

health care will be rationed, which will take care of that pesky mom and dad problem.
illegal immigrants will be welcomed, which means that corporations will have new cheap labor forever and wages will be perpetually degraded because of the oversupply of labor.
more small businesses get taxed into oblivion and government grows in strength.

big government gets their cheap labor pool and there wouldn't be a darn thing that you can do about it.

To be honest i'm more worried about my premium spiralling out of control, except the CBO says otherwise. Premiums will go up for everyone, especially those outside of group plans. If you are buying your own insurance you can expect rates 10-13% higher than if no legislation had passed. I'd not hold my breath that it will stay that low, there are no costs controls in place and many of the mandates are undefined and could increase costs even more, NO ONE is going to see lower premiums from this bill, it's just not true no matter how many times Obama says it.

Beside premium i'm happy millions of uninsured will get insurance.

Tayo-D:

@Davidylan,
You are so ignorant, it beggars belief. Here is someone who is not even aware that each State has a different health insurance mandate turning around to accuse the one who informed him of such, ill-informed! You really need to learn to debate and to understand what is being said before you retort with all the NBC talking points.

Its surely a waste of time talking to you. As someone who have been through these issues first hand and have had the personal esxperience of actively seeking options that are not available because of govt mandates, it's laughable to see such an ignorant person repeating his favorite politician's talking points in response to issues raised.

Please have a doughnut with the cool-aid that has been giving to you. I wish you Godspeed!

this is frankly stupid.

I will repeat for the upteenth time, the insurance mandates in the states is NOT the same as the individual mandates in this new HC bill.

This is the definition of the state health care mandates - A health insurance “mandate” is a requirement that an insurance company or health plan cover (or offer coverage for) common— but sometimes not so common — health care providers, benefits and patient populations.

Source - Health Insurance
Mandates in the States 2008
Victoria Craig Bunce, Director of Research and Policy
JP Wieske, Director of State Affairs

This mandate is STRICTLY for the insurance company and in NO WAY requires the individual to purchase health insurance.

But THIS is the individual mandate as stated by the Obama Healthcare reform bill - ‘‘SEC. 5000A. REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN MINIMUM ESSEN- 17
TIAL COVERAGE." ‘(a) REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE.— An applicable individual shall for each month beginning after 2013 ensure that the individual, and any dependent of the individual who is an applicable individual, is covered under minimum essential coverage for such month.

Source - Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (H.R. 3590)

See the difference now dumbo? The state mandate is for insurance companies, the new healthcare mandate is for individuals.

I hope you will also learn to read before regurgitating Faux nooze talking points.

Another faux worshipper on the horizon. . .

micktosin:

I know this thread will be chock-a-block with the liberal Spin MAchine, I didn't even bother to read it, hope I'm wrong, but anyways:
YES WE DID Right!!!!

Just the same way you have appeared with right wing smear tactics right?

micktosin:

health care will be rationed, which will take care of that pesky mom and dad problem.

It was already being rationed silly. By insurance companies who deny insurance on the basis of pre-existing conditions . . . i.e only the healthy can be covered.

micktosin:

illegal immigrants will be welcomed, which means that corporations will have new cheap labor forever and wages will be perpetually degraded because of the oversupply of labor.

(3) ACCESS LIMITED TO LAWFUL RESIDENTS.— If an individual is not, or is not reasonably expected to be for the entire period for which enrollment is sought, a citizen or national of the United States or an alien lawfully present in the United States, the individual shall not be treated as a qualified individual and may not be covered under a qualified health plan in the individual market that is offered through an Exchange.

Source - Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (H.R. 3590)

micktosin:

more small businesses get taxed into oblivion and government grows in strength.

Small Business Tax Credit
The act provides tax credits for small businesses and individuals designed to increase levels of health insurance coverage, as part of the IRC § 38 general business credit. Small businesses—defined as businesses with 25 or fewer employees and average annual wages of less than $40,000—would be eligible for a credit of up to 50% of nonelective contributions the business makes on behalf of their employees for insurance premiums (new IRC § 45R). Tax-exempt organizations would get a 35% credit against payroll taxes.

Employers with 10 or fewer employees and average wages of less than $20,000 would get 100% of the credit; it would be phased out, up to the 25-employee limit. The $20,000 average annual wages figure will be indexed for inflation after 2013. Five-percent owners under the section 416 top-heavy plan rules and 2% S corporation shareholders are not included in the definition of employee, but leased employees are counted.

This credit is available for tax years beginning after Dec. 31, 2009.

micktosin:

big government gets their cheap labor pool and there wouldn't be a darn thing that you can do about it.

what does he mean by "big government"?

micktosin:

To be honest i'm more worried about my premium spiralling out of control, except the CBO says otherwise.

micktosin:

Premiums will go up for everyone, especially those outside of group plans. If you are buying your own insurance you can expect rates 10-13% higher than if no legislation had passed.

I'm not sure this individual is on this planet . . . [url=http://www.courant.com/business/hc-insurance-premiums-0222,0,7820857.story]Connecticut Health Care Premiums Up 20 Percent As Obama Seeks Limits[/url]

WellPoint Defends Large Health Insurance Premium Hike
- INDIANAPOLIS -- Indianapolis-based health insurer WellPoint blames a shift in demographics and rising medical costs for its planned 39 percent rate hike for some California customers.

micktosin:

I'd not hold my breath that it will stay that low, there are no costs controls in place and many of the mandates are undefined and could increase costs even more, NO ONE is going to see lower premiums from this bill, it's just not true no matter how many times Obama says it.

What sheer stupidity. The lack of cost controls was what necessitated this health care bill in the first place. The public option would have been the BEST cost control mechanism besides moving to a single payer model as practiced in other countries but of course faux news addicts like you would be crying "big government".

micktosin:

Beside premium i'm happy millions of uninsured will get insurance.

There is no reaching out to the deliberately stu.pid.

Another faux worshipper on the horizon. . .

micktosin:

I know this thread will be chock-a-block with the liberal Spin MAchine, I didn't even bother to read it, hope I'm wrong, but anyways:
YES WE DID Right!!!!

Just the same way you have appeared with right wing smear tactics right?

micktosin:

health care will be rationed, which will take care of that pesky mom and dad problem.

It was already being rationed silly. By insurance companies who deny insurance on the basis of pre-existing conditions . . . i.e only the healthy can be covered.

micktosin:

illegal immigrants will be welcomed, which means that corporations will have new cheap labor forever and wages will be perpetually degraded because of the oversupply of labor.

(3) ACCESS LIMITED TO LAWFUL RESIDENTS.— If an individual is not, or is not reasonably expected to be for the entire period for which enrollment is sought, a citizen or national of the United States or an alien lawfully present in the United States, the individual shall not be treated as a qualified individual and may not be covered under a qualified health plan in the individual market that is offered through an Exchange.

Source - Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (H.R. 3590)

micktosin:

more small businesses get taxed into oblivion and government grows in strength.

Small Business Tax Credit
The act provides tax credits for small businesses and individuals designed to increase levels of health insurance coverage, as part of the IRC § 38 general business credit. Small businesses—defined as businesses with 25 or fewer employees and average annual wages of less than $40,000—would be eligible for a credit of up to 50% of nonelective contributions the business makes on behalf of their employees for insurance premiums (new IRC § 45R). Tax-exempt organizations would get a 35% credit against payroll taxes.

Employers with 10 or fewer employees and average wages of less than $20,000 would get 100% of the credit; it would be phased out, up to the 25-employee limit. The $20,000 average annual wages figure will be indexed for inflation after 2013. Five-percent owners under the section 416 top-heavy plan rules and 2% S corporation shareholders are not included in the definition of employee, but leased employees are counted.

This credit is available for tax years beginning after Dec. 31, 2009.

micktosin:

big government gets their cheap labor pool and there wouldn't be a darn thing that you can do about it.

what does he mean by "big government"?

micktosin:

To be honest i'm more worried about my premium spiralling out of control, except the CBO says otherwise.

micktosin:

Premiums will go up for everyone, especially those outside of group plans. If you are buying your own insurance you can expect rates 10-13% higher than if no legislation had passed.

I'm not sure this individual is on this planet . . . Connecticut Health Care Premiums [b]Up 20 Percent As Obama Seeks Limits[/b]

WellPoint Defends Large Health Insurance Premium Hike
- INDIANAPOLIS -- Indianapolis-based health insurer WellPoint blames a shift in demographics and rising medical costs for its planned 39 percent rate hike for some California customers.

micktosin:

I'd not hold my breath that it will stay that low, there are no costs controls in place and many of the mandates are undefined and could increase costs even more, NO ONE is going to see lower premiums from this bill, it's just not true no matter how many times Obama says it.

What sheer stupidity. The lack of cost controls was what necessitated this health care bill in the first place. The public option would have been the BEST cost control mechanism besides moving to a single payer model as practiced in other countries but of course faux news addicts like you would be crying "big government".

micktosin:

Beside premium i'm happy millions of uninsured will get insurance.

There is no reaching out to the deliberately stu.pid.

Another faux worshipper on the horizon. . .

micktosin:

I know this thread will be chock-a-block with the liberal Spin MAchine, I didn't even bother to read it, hope I'm wrong, but anyways:
YES WE DID Right!!!!

Just the same way you have appeared with right wing smear tactics right?

micktosin:

health care will be rationed, which will take care of that pesky mom and dad problem.

It was already being rationed silly. By insurance companies who deny coverage on the basis of pre-existing conditions . . . i.e only the healthy can be covered.

micktosin:

illegal immigrants will be welcomed, which means that corporations will have new cheap labor forever and wages will be perpetually degraded because of the oversupply of labor.

(3) ACCESS LIMITED TO LAWFUL RESIDENTS.— If an individual is not, or is not reasonably expected to be for the entire period for which enrollment is sought, a citizen or national of the United States or an alien lawfully present in the United States, the individual shall not be treated as a qualified individual and may not be covered under a qualified health plan in the individual market that is offered through an Exchange.

Source - Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (H.R. 3590)