micktosin:

more small businesses get taxed into oblivion and government grows in strength.

Small Business Tax Credit
The act provides tax credits for small businesses and individuals designed to increase levels of health insurance coverage, as part of the IRC § 38 general business credit. Small businesses—defined as businesses with 25 or fewer employees and average annual wages of less than $40,000—would be eligible for a credit of up to 50% of nonelective contributions the business makes on behalf of their employees for insurance premiums (new IRC § 45R). Tax-exempt organizations would get a 35% credit against payroll taxes.

Employers with 10 or fewer employees and average wages of less than $20,000 would get 100% of the credit; it would be phased out, up to the 25-employee limit. The $20,000 average annual wages figure will be indexed for inflation after 2013. Five-percent owners under the section 416 top-heavy plan rules and 2% S corporation shareholders are not included in the definition of employee, but leased employees are counted.

This credit is available for tax years beginning after Dec. 31, 2009.

micktosin:

big government gets their cheap labor pool and there wouldn't be a darn thing that you can do about it.

what does he mean by "big government"?

micktosin:

To be honest i'm more worried about my premium spiralling out of control, except the CBO says otherwise.

micktosin:

Premiums will go up for everyone, especially those outside of group plans. If you are buying your own insurance you can expect rates 10-13% higher than if no legislation had passed.

I'm not sure this individual is on this planet . . . Connecticut Health Care Premiums Up 20 Percent As Obama Seeks Limits

WellPoint Defends Large Health Insurance Premium Hike
- INDIANAPOLIS -- Indianapolis-based health insurer WellPoint blames a shift in demographics and rising medical costs for its planned 39 percent rate hike for some California customers.

micktosin:

I'd not hold my breath that it will stay that low, there are no costs controls in place and many of the mandates are undefined and could increase costs even more,  NO ONE is going to see lower premiums from this bill, it's just not true no matter how many times Obama says it.

What sheer stupidity. The lack of cost controls was what necessitated this health care bill in the first place. The public option would have been the BEST cost control mechanism besides moving to a single payer model as practiced in other countries but of course faux news addicts like you would be crying "big government".

micktosin:

Beside premium i'm happy millions of uninsured will get insurance. 

There is no reaching out to the deliberately stu.pid.

mciktosin shld thank God for the spambot.

@David,

I am glad that my little contribution so far has made you to seek some knowledge regarding state health insurance mandates.  With that little knowledge, please go back and read what I posted earlier. It will amaze you how foolish your previous responses were in the light of this new truth (new to you and not to the rest of us).

"Do you know that govt mandates is part of the reason why we have these balloning prices? Do you realise that I would have opted for a less expensive coverage if it was avaialable? I have to maintain the one I have because the insurance companies were mandated to provide some minimum coverage which is a waste as far as I am concerned.  I can't intelligently choose some options because someone in Washington or St Paul has decided I must have and pay for something I do not need."

"You do not know that each State has its own mandate on healthcare?  Why do you think some people are talking about crossing State lines to buy health insurance where its chaeaper due to less mandates? What about the fact that current laws forbid crossing State lines to buy insurance?"

Can you cool down a little bit and use your mental faculties to reason out wnad untwist yourself from the self-inflicted knots?!

micktosin:

I know this thread will be chock-a-block with the liberal Spin MAchine, I didn't even bother to read it, hope I'm wrong, but anyways:
YES WE DID Right!!!!

health care will be rationed, which will take care of that pesky mom and dad problem.
illegal immigrants will be welcomed, which means that corporations will have new cheap labor forever and wages will be perpetually degraded because of the oversupply of labor.
more small businesses get taxed into oblivion and government grows in strength.

big government gets their cheap labor pool and there wouldn't be a darn thing that you can do about it.

To be honest i'm more worried about my premium spiralling out of control, except the CBO says otherwise. Premiums will go up for everyone, especially those outside of group plans. If you are buying your own insurance you can expect rates 10-13% higher than if no legislation had passed. I'd not hold my breath that it will stay that low, there are no costs controls in place and many of the mandates are undefined and could increase costs even more,  NO ONE is going to see lower premiums from this bill, it's just not true no matter how many times Obama says it.

Beside premium i'm happy millions of uninsured will get insurance.  

Huh?

Health care would be rationed? Ummm please explain

Illegal immigrants would be welcomed? How many times would they have to tell skeptics that immigrants are not included on this plan and besides how does immigration play in health care? You talking another part of economics besides just because of health care does not overwrite U.S. immigration and labor laws.

Small business get taxed in oblivion? Are you really serious? No offense but did u study economics? The No.1 cost to a company is "LABOR" and obviously healthcare and benefits associated with that labor is what the cost is. Please how does business taxes involve health care? However, small business would benefit instead because now they can offer lower health care benefits to employees just like the big guys do. Moreover, they get tax credits for hiring new employees and more when they extend health care benefits to them.

Hmm how does your premium spiral outta control? Please give me the scenario because I'm finding it hard getting it. This is basic demand and supply, more people contribute, more people are covered even though they don't utilize it, same cost of health care would remain same. Unless if you implying that under the new law, insurance companies cannot deny someone because of pre-existing condition, that would affect the person with the condition and not you that is why its mandated for every one to get it before the condition comes.

Tayo-D, that is purely a nonsensical post from you.

I  knew what the state mandates where ages ago. My main point from the begining was that the state mandates where NOT the same as the mandates in Obama's bill period. The fact that both are called "mandates" does not mean they point to the same thing.

Tayo-D:

"Do you know that govt mandates is part of the reason why we have these balloning prices? Do you realise that I would have opted for a less expensive coverage if it was avaialable? I have to maintain the one I have because the insurance companies were mandated to provide some minimum coverage which is a waste as far as I am concerned.  I can't intelligently choose some options because someone in Washington or St Paul has decided I must have and pay for something I do not need."

Which "government mandates" are you talking about here? Still confusing the two? the state mandates of course are the reason we have ballooning prices because:

1. insurance companies are primarily FOR PROFIT! To please their shareholders they have to increase revenue and decrease pay outs i.e. raise premiums while refusing to cover those with genuine medical problems.

2. Because the healthy largely refuse to purchase health care, insurance companies are forced to cover the sick, of course the few healthy insured bear the brunt of the medical coverage for the sick.

Now imagine this scenario:

1. government public option . . . not for profit allowed to compete with private insurers. Since govt would spend significantly less on administrative costs and does not need to turn a profit, it would offer lower premiums which would then force private insurers to charge lower in order to stay in business.

2. Expand the coverage pool to include more of the healthy. This means income to insurance companies is larger than the payout for the sick. This would lower premiums. Which is the reason we now have an individual mandate in H.R. 3390. Funny enough, this individual mandate was a republican idea as far back as George H.W. Bush.

Tayo-D:

"You do not know that each State has its own mandate on healthcare?  Why do you think some people are talking about crossing State lines to buy health insurance where its chaeaper due to less mandates? What about the fact that current laws forbid crossing State lines to buy insurance?"

Groan. we are back to this idiocy again. We already know states have their own mandates on healthcare but it has NOTHING to do with the individual. It is a REQUIREMENT ON THE INSURANCE COMPANY to cover a stipulated minimum coverage. What has this to do with anything? What does it have in common with the individual mandate? Do the state mandates on healthcare force the individual to purchase healthcare?

Allowing folks to go across state lines to buy coverage is meaningless and will do nothing to reduce cost. The states will simply increase premiums and you're back to square one!

Tayo-D:

Can you cool down a little bit and use your mental faculties to reason out wnad untwist yourself from the self-inflicted knots?!

I've been using my mental faculties, dont know where you left yours. You keep repeating the same discredited nonsense.

micktosin:

I know this thread will be chock-a-block with the liberal Spin MAchine, I didn't even bother to read it, hope I'm wrong, but anyways:
YES WE DID Right!!!!

health care will be rationed, which will take care of that pesky mom and dad problem.
illegal immigrants will be welcomed, which means that corporations will have new cheap labor forever and wages will be perpetually degraded because of the oversupply of labor.
more small businesses get taxed into oblivion and government grows in strength.

big government gets their cheap labor pool and there wouldn't be a darn thing that you can do about it.

To be honest i'm more worried about my premium spiralling out of control, except the CBO says otherwise. Premiums will go up for everyone, especially those outside of group plans. If you are buying your own insurance you can expect rates 10-13% higher than if no legislation had passed. I'd not hold my breath that it will stay that low, there are no costs controls in place and many of the mandates are undefined and could increase costs even more,  NO ONE is going to see lower premiums from this bill, it's just not true no matter how many times Obama says it.

Beside premium i'm happy millions of uninsured will get insurance.  

Huh?

Health care would be rationed? Ummm please explain

Illegal immigrants would be welcomed? How many times would they have to tell skeptics that immigrants are not included on this plan and besides how does immigration play in health care? You talking another part of economics besides just because of health care does not overwrite U.S. immigration and labor laws.

Small business get taxed in oblivion? Are you really serious? No offense but did u study economics? The No.1 cost to a company is "LABOR" and obviously healthcare and benefits associated with that labor is what the cost is. Please how does business taxes involve health care? However, small business would benefit instead because now they can offer lower health care benefits to employees just like the big guys do. Moreover, they get tax credits for hiring new employees and more when they extend health care benefits to them.

Hmm how does your premium spiral outta control? Please give me the scenario because I'm finding it hard getting it. This is basic demand and supply, more people contribute, more people are covered even though they don't utilize it, same cost of health care would remain same. Unless if you implying that under the new law, insurance companies cannot deny someone because of pre-existing condition, that would affect the person with the condition and not you that is why its mandated for every one to get it before the condition comes.

micktosin:

I know this thread will be chock-a-block with the liberal Spin MAchine, I didn't even bother to read it, hope I'm wrong, but anyways:
YES WE DID Right!!!!

health care will be rationed, which will take care of that pesky mom and dad problem.
illegal immigrants will be welcomed, which means that corporations will have new cheap labor forever and wages will be perpetually degraded because of the oversupply of labor.
more small businesses get taxed into oblivion and government grows in strength.

big government gets their cheap labor pool and there wouldn't be a darn thing that you can do about it.

To be honest i'm more worried about my premium spiralling out of control, except the CBO says otherwise. Premiums will go up for everyone, especially those outside of group plans. If you are buying your own insurance you can expect rates 10-13% higher than if no legislation had passed. I'd not hold my breath that it will stay that low, there are no costs controls in place and many of the mandates are undefined and could increase costs even more, NO ONE is going to see lower premiums from this bill, it's just not true no matter how many times Obama says it.

Beside premium i'm happy millions of uninsured will get insurance.

Huh?

Health care would be rationed? Ummm please explain

Illegal immigrants would be welcomed? How many times would they have to tell skeptics that immigrants are not included on this plan and besides how does immigration play in health care? You talking another part of economics besides just because of health care does not overwrite U.S. immigration and labor laws.

Small business get taxed in oblivion? Are you really serious? No offense but did u study economics? The No.1 cost to a company is "LABOR" and obviously healthcare and benefits associated with that labor is what the cost is. Please how does business taxes involve health care? However, small business would benefit instead because now they can offer lower health care benefits to employees just like the big guys do. Moreover, they get tax credits for hiring new employees and more when they extend health care benefits to them.

Hmm how does your premium spiral outta control? Please give me the scenario because I'm finding it hard getting it. This is basic demand and supply, more people contribute, more people are covered even though they don't utilize it, same cost of health care would remain same. Unless if you implying that under the new law, insurance companies cannot deny someone because of pre-existing condition, that would affect the person with the condition and not you that is why its mandated for every one to get it before the condition comes.

Lets look at this analysis

abt 30million people are uninsured in the U.S.

Lets assume that for simple sake 10% of the number contribute a $50 monthly premium for a total of $600 annually to the same current pool which is $600 x 3million people = $1,800million to the insurance companies annually. Now with the same public option from the govt, there is less health care cost burden on the govt which in turn passes onto the consumer which in turn has less premium. Because its a competitive market, companies would in turn lower their cost to be competitive.

@David,

I  knew what the state mandates where ages ago. My main point from the begining was that the state mandates where NOT the same as the mandates in Obama's bill period. The fact that both are called "mandates" does not mean they point to the same thing.

I wish you are a better liar.  How can you say you know the difference between the two and yet jump to conclude that I was refering to individual mandates when all I have refered to was the State mandate?  In response to my refernece to the mandates, this is what you said: "there are no govt mandates now, why are the prices going up?"  

I understand when people try to save face, but please do so intelligently and without lying.  It does not speak well of you.

Which "government mandates" are you talking about here? Still confusing the two?

Use your brain and you will understand which one I was refering to? How can it be individual mandates when I refer to shopping around either intra or inter-state?  Do you remember our discussion about the flat screen TVs and how the mandate in each State could determine the cost of providing the goods or services? Is that in any way related to individual mandate?

the state mandates of course are the reason we have ballooning prices because:

Why are you so confused. You mean you have been hyper-ventilating only to arrive at the same conclusion I stated earlier and corroborated by JeSoul that the State mandates need to be revisited to make the cost of health insurance cheaper?  Now while some of the reasons you provided are laughble (especially when it comes to govt admin cost being cheaper, see Medicaid), the forgoing conclusion was apt.

Funny enough, this individual mandate was a republican idea as far back as George H.W. Bush.

And is that supposed to make it a good idea?

@David,

Groan. we are back to this idiocy again. We already know states have their own mandates on healthcare but it has NOTHING to do with the individual.

Who ever said it had anything to do with the individual mandate? You must be arguing with someone else in your head. Please read my posts, understand them b4 responding. Fair requirement?!!

It is a REQUIREMENT ON THE INSURANCE COMPANY to cover a stipulated minimum coverage. What has this to do with anything?

Its got to do with costs. Isn't that what we are trying to do? Control costs! Didn't you just acknowledge earlier that each State mandate increases the insurance costs?

What does it have in common with the individual mandate? Do the state mandates on healthcare force the individual to purchase healthcare?

Who claimed that it did?

Allowing folks to go across state lines to buy coverage is meaningless and will do nothing to reduce cost. The states will simply increase premiums and you're back to square one!

That's not true. If I can buy insurance for cheap out of State, the insurance companies in my home State will reduce their cost just to remain competitive. One of the mobile phone carriers recently reduced their prices and guess what? Others quickly reduced their prices also so as to not lose all theri customers to the cheapest carrier. This is how the market works.

i'm waiting for the death panels and amageddon(spelling) and socialist communist fascist palinist typist fist list mist gist etc to happen

anyway, this bill(now law) is the first step in healthcare reform. i hope the real reform doesnt take 100yrs like the civil rights struggle did.

Republicans: We need Healthcare reform, but we need to come up with a decent bill, not this nonsense bill.

Ibime: Stop talking nonsense. When have you ever made steps toward Universal Healthcare?

The problem with those who oppose the Health Care Reform bill is that their mamas were not thinking properly; otherwise, she would not have conceived them or should have aborted them.

Health Care Reform bill is the single most important bill that has happened to the United States of America in particular and the world in general. This is the year 2010 and human beings cannot brag of being able to take care of their own. Lido Anthony "Lee" Iacocca, stays at home and makes $270 million per year. However, some fool wants to oppose health care for 30 million people.

A surgical stapler cost $1,200. This nonsense will stop. People’s health should not be a business. The law that mandates safety and efficacy of all drugs manufactured in the United States; now extends to all drugs manufactured in the United States and are for sale in third-world countries. Hurrah for Health Care Reform!

If Obama and the United States congress erred in passing the health care reform bill; they erred in good company. The American Medical Association endorsed the helath care reform.

tpia.:

Fla. doc's sign warns off Obama supporters

A central Florida

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36152956/ns/health-health_care/

“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, a good homage that endureth for ever!”
tpia wrote and referenced her source; all thanks to the chiding she received from king AdeRex.
A silly article no doubt (an article about a foolish individual against a health care reform that can potentially insure 30 million poor people and a reform that is already the law of the land, is trifle).  It is posting an article about someone crying over spilt milk.

Nevertheless, tpia cited her source; and that is what matters to the king right now.

Tayo-D:

I thot we had an understanding that I can change blankets each season. Now that winter is over, you will see more of me this spring, darling

Berra get rid of that blanket before i set my hands on it and set it on fire, right from the top of the fake weave on her head to the grubby manky calloused feet of hers Now off you go to do my bidding before I curse that blanket to infect you with all the craw-craw and lice and bedbugs that all the Healthcare bill in the world would not be able to get rid of

I have never understood, which is why the United States have defended themselves
so long to introduce a compulsory medical insurance. Nevertheless, such a thing
is more than fair and sensibly. Every worker, office worker, official and self-employed
is compulsorily insured in Germany. Children and not employed husbands or wifes are included
in the insurance free of charge. Even people who have no insurance for some reasons, as
for example homeless who do not look after their insurance or illegally in Germany living
people are treated medically in the case of illness in spite of the expenses. Nobody is
turned down, only because he cannot pay the treatment.
Since January this year the contribution amounts to 14.9% of the gross income. One half
pays the employee and other half the employers.The money is automatically drawn off from
the wage / salary and is transferred by the employer to the Social insurance authority.
Just as for the pension scheme,the unemployment insurance,the churches and wage tax.
Clear it is sometimes groaned if one looks at his pay slip and sees how many net income
has been left at the end. But only so a social state can function. And at the latest if
your children need braces for years, you or a member of your family has to go for an OP
in the hospital, or if you take up the various precaution controls, or only the visit with
a doctor if you are ill, never mind chronically ill. Simply show your insurance card and
ready. No cock crows afterwards anymore. The services of the health insurances, the hospitals
and doctors are well to very well. If you want really luxus treatment you must pay extra.
Sure, it was even better 30 years ago. The insurance contributions were lower and there were
more reliefs than today. However, because the people in Germany become old and old, but are
born in the contrast less and less children, the load of the social insurance rises.
An easy calculation.