All facts presented here are
supported by The Holy Bible.

1. It is known that the Arabs and Jews are both
descendants of Abraham- Arabs through Ishmael and Jews
through Isaac.
Muslims believe that Ishmael was the son Abraham was
commanded to sacrifice, while Christians believe it
was Isaac.

In Genesis 22:2
"Take thy son, thy only son"

In Genesis 16:15-16
'Abraham was 86 years when Ishmael was born"

In Genesis 21:4-5
"Abraham was 100 years when Isaac was born"

Now who was Abraham's only son?

2. God talked to Moses about the coming of prophet
from the Arabs.

In Deuteronomy 18:18
"I will send them a prophet like you from their own
people, I will tell him what to say and he will tell
the people everything I command"

Who are them? Ans: Arabs Moses is from the descendants
of Isaac.

Who is the prophet from Arabs? ans: Muhammad
What are the words of God he came with? ans: Quran
If there is any other prophet apart from Muhammad that
fits this, please mention him.
To prove this, after Moses came John the baptist.

In John 1:19-21
"Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent
priest and levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are
you?" He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed,
"I am not the Christ." And they asked him "what then?
are you Elijah?" he said "I am not". Are you the
Prophet?" And he answered "NO" "

Now who is the prophet? ans: It is that prophet
mentioned to Moses in Deuteronomy 18:18. And it is
Muhammad.

After John came the Christ

In Matthew 17:10-13
"And his disciples asked him, saying "Why then do the
scribes say that Elijah must come first?" Jesus
answered and said to them, "Indeed, Elijah is coming
first and he will restore all things. "But I say to
you that Elijah has come already, and they did not
know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise
the son of Man is also about to suffer at their
hands." Then the disciples understood that he spoke to
them of John the baptist."

Here we can confirm the answers given to Jews by John
the baptist, saying he is not the Christ, nor Elijah
but he spoke with the voice of Elijah. One question
remains "The prophet" this is the same person Jesus
described as the son of man (Muhammad) pbuh.

3. Jesus mentioned to his people the coming
of him.

In John 16:7-8
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your
advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the
helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will
send him to you." "And when he has come, He will
convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of
judgment."

And also in John 16:12-14
"I still have many things to say to you, but you
cannot bear them now." "However, when He, the spirit
of truth , has come, He will guide you into all the
truth; for He will not speak on his own authority, but
whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you
things to come" "He will glorify me, for He will take
of what is mine and declare it to you."

The big question is who is He Muslims will say
without hesitation that it is Muhammad, because he
only speaks what he hears through the eternal message
"The Quran" and he has told us things that will
happen. "All that is happening in this world has been
mentioned in the Quran." Check and confirm.
Christians will tell you its The Holy Spirit, what
are the proofs?

Another thing is that this 'person' whom Jesus
prophesied will come after him is called in the
original Bible 'Parqaleeta". This word was deleted by
later interpreters and translators and changed atimes
to 'Spirit of truth' and at other times to 'Comforter'
and sometimes to 'Holy Spirit'. The original word is
Greek and its meaning is 'one whom people praise
exceedingly'. The sense of the word is applicable to
the word 'Muhammad" in Arabic.

You can also look at John 14:15-16 and John 15:26-27.

4. The Quran mentioned in the Bible.

In Revelation 14:6-7
"Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of
heaven, having the evalasting gospel to preach to
those who dwell on the earth- to every nation, tribe,
tongue and people. Saying with a loud voice. "Fear God
and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgement
has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth,
the sea and springs of water."

What is that everlasting gospel that is preached to
every nation, every tribe and every tongue? Ans: Quran
If you argue my answer then provide yours. The Bible
is not an everlasting gospel, because Jesus mentioned
he was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel.

Matthew 15:24 and Matthew 10:5-6 Explains that

5. Lastly, lets look at

Isaiah 29:12
"And the book was delivered to him that is not
learned, saying Read this, I pray thee, and he said I
am not learned".

Ask any Muslim who that is and what book was delivered
to him and he gives you a straight answer that it is
Muhammad (pbuh) and the book is The Holy Quran. But
ask a Christian and you get no answer.
This is a big challenge to Christians, who is the
person and what was the Book

Brothers and sisters lets open our eyes and see the
truth.

There are so many other things we can prove from the
Bible; Things like Jesus not the son of God, There is
only one God. Even pilgrimage that muslims go to Mecca
is there in the Bible.

Remember everything I mentioned here are based on
facts in the Bible and none was quoted from the Holy
Quran. Not that the Quran did not mention them , but
because Bible is the Book Cristian's believe in and
use. Even though, the original Bible has been
adultrated in many ways. You find so many errors in
the Bible used today, but there is still enough to
prove the coming of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and the
Holy Quran.

If there is any contradiction to what I mention here,
please dont hesitate to point it out.

May God guide us all. Ameen

@deenmb,

The basic fact is that Muhammad was not sent as a prophet of the God revealed in the Biblical faiths.

deenmb:

Now who was Abraham's only son?

What verse of the Bible did you draw that from; and what were you driving at?

deenmb:

2. God talked to Moses about the coming of prophet
from the Arabs.

In Deuteronomy 18:18
"I will send them a prophet like you from their own
people, I will tell him what to say and he will tell
the people everything I command"

Who are them? Ans: Arabs Moses is from the descendants
of Isaac.

"¹⁸I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

In the Bible, there is no mention of a prophet "from the Arabs" as you suggested. Isaac was not an Arab. The phrase "from among their brethren" indicates the Jews - for these were the people referred to when Moses was being addressed in Deut.18:18.

deenmb:

Who is the prophet from Arabs? ans: Muhammad

True. But even then, an Arab prophet was never mentioned in the Bible.

deenmb:

What are the words of God he came with? ans: Quran

Not one time did Muhammad ever hear God speak to him; and in that sense he does not fit the description of Deut. 18:18. Moses heard God speak to him "face to face" (Exo. 33:11); and the prophet that was to come should be like unto Moses. Since Muhammad did not hear God speak to him at anytime, that is one of the many things that disqualify him as the Deut.18:18 prophet.

deenmb:

If there is any other prophet apart from Muhammad that
fits this, please mention him.

Every other prophet that came after Moses knew that Deut.18:18 pointed to Someone else; and the prophecies that followed revealed that none other was being expected than the Messiah. When the Lord Jesus Christ revealed in the New Testament, Deut. 18:18 was fulfilled. There is no other prophet that has been seen to fulfill the many prophecies of the OT in every detail about the Messiah than Jesus Himself.

deenmb:

To prove this, after Moses came John the baptist.

Wrong. After Moses came Joshua.
"Now after the death of Moses the servant of the LORD it came to pass, that the LORD spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister. . .  And they answered Joshua, saying, All that thou commandest us we will do, and whithersoever thou sendest us, we will go." (Joshua 1: vs.1 & 16)

deenmb:

In John 1:19-21
"Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent
priest and levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are
you?" He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed,
"I am not the Christ." And they asked him "what then?
are you Elijah?" he said "I am not". Are you the
Prophet?" And he answered "NO" "

Now who is the prophet? ans: It is that prophet
mentioned to Moses in Deuteronomy 18:18. And it is
Muhammad.

If you truly believe in John's Gospel, then be honest enough to see who John the Baptist was focuing on:

John 1:25-30 - "And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet? John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose. These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing. The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me."

You can see that John did not speak at all of Muhammad. Rather, his testimony and ministry were focused on Jesus.

deenmb:

After John came the Christ

In Matthew 17:10-13
"And his disciples asked him, saying "Why then do the
scribes say that Elijah must come first?" Jesus
answered and said to them, "Indeed, Elijah is coming
first and he will restore all things. "But I say to
you that Elijah has come already, and they did not
know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise
the son of Man is also about to suffer at their
hands." Then the disciples understood that he spoke to
them of John the baptist."

Here we can confirm the answers given to Jews by John
the baptist, saying he is not the Christ, nor Elijah
but he spoke with the voice of Elijah. One question
remains "The prophet" this is the same person Jesus
described as the son of man (Muhammad) pbuh.

Nowhere in the Bible did Jesus speak of Muhammad. Whenever He spoke of the "Son of Man", it was always in reference to Himself. Besides, no serious Muslim has ever interpreted Jesus words of "Son of man" to mean Muhammad.

If Jesus meant that Muhammad was the "Son of Man" in His teaching, then it is only sensible to ask if Muhammad ever did the works of the "Son of man."

#1. Did Muhammad have the power to forgive sins and heal people? (Matt. 9:6-7)
"But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. And he arose, and departed to his house"

#2. Was Muhammad dead for three days and nights? (Matt. 12:40)
"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

#3. Was Muhammad ever called "the Lord of the Sabbath day" in the Qur'an? (Matt. 12:
"For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day."

#4. Was Muhammad the same as Jesus? (Matt. 16:13)
"When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?"

#5. Was Muhammad ever crucified? (Matt. 26:2)
"Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified."

You can see in all these and more that when Jesus spoke of 'the Son of man', He meant Himself, and not Muhammad.

deenmb:

3. Jesus mentioned to his people the coming
of him.

In John 16:7-8
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your
advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the
helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will
send him to you." "And when he has come, He will
convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of
judgment."

And also in John 16:12-14
"I still have many things to say to you, but you
cannot bear them now." "However, when He, the spirit
of truth , has come, He will guide you into all the
truth; for He will not speak on his own authority, but
whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you
things to come" "He will glorify me, for He will take
of what is mine and declare it to you."

The One Jesus spoke about in John 16 is the Holy Spirit; and not an unholy sinner called Muhammad. The closest to anything about Muhammad spoken of in John 16 is in verse 2: "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service." Killing Jews and Christians is one of the tenets of Islam; and Muhammad actually fulfilled that role by thinking he was doing God service by killing Jews and Christians.

Question: what is "holy" about Muhammad - who himself confessed that he was such a sinner to have turned in repentance to "Allah" over seventy times in a day? What is "holy" about Muhammad who could not convince himself of sin before seeking to convince others of the same?

deenmb:

The big question is who is He Muslims will say
without hesitation that it is Muhammad, because he
only speaks what he hears through the eternal message
"The Quran" and he has told us things that will
happen. "All that is happening in this world has been
mentioned in the Quran." Check and confirm.
Christians will tell you its The Holy Spirit, what
are the proofs?

In the first place, Muhammad did not now who the Holy Spirit is - and he confused the Spirit for the angel Gabriel.

Secondly, the Word of God is not subject to "abrogation" - but the Qur'an itself confirms that the "Allah" preached by Muhammad was a being who abrogated verses in the Qur'an.

Third, Muslims have not been able to articulate a single prophecy in the Qur'an that was fulfilled in plainly a manner as those revealed in the Bible.

Therefore, for Muslims to think that Muhammad was the prophet in Deut.18:18 is dishonest. Jesus plainly spoke about who that prophecy was about in John 5:46 -  "For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me." There is the clear statement that Jesus never referred to Muhammad at all. Rather, Moses wrote about the Messiah - Jesus Christ.

deenmb:

Another thing is that this 'person' whom Jesus
prophesied will come after him is called in the
original Bible 'Parqaleeta". This word was deleted by
later interpreters and translators and changed atimes
to 'Spirit of truth' and at other times to 'Comforter'
and sometimes to 'Holy Spirit'. The original word is
Greek and its meaning is 'one whom people praise
exceedingly'. The sense of the word is applicable to
the word 'Muhammad" in Arabic.

First, what correlation you see between Arabic and Greek is beyond anyone! Arabic is as far removed from Greek as the East is from the West!

Second, there is no word as "Parqaleeta" in Greek. Whoever devised that word should explain how they came about it when in fact the Greeks never had such a word in their language.

The word variously translated as Comforter (John 14:16) and Advocate (I John 2:1) in the NT from the Greek is "paraklētos" [Gk. παράκλητος]. It simply means an intercessor for comfort and points to the Holy Spirit in John's Gospel.

deenmb:

4. The Quran mentioned in the Bible.

In Revelation 14:6-7
"Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of
heaven, having the evalasting gospel to preach to
those who dwell on the earth- to every nation, tribe,
tongue and people. Saying with a loud voice. "Fear God
and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgement
has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth,
the sea and springs of water."

What is that everlasting gospel that is preached to
every nation, every tribe and every tongue? Ans: Quran
If you argue my answer then provide yours. The Bible
is not an everlasting gospel, because Jesus mentioned
he was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel.

The salvation Jesus offered was to the entire world. He said so Himself in that very popular verse in John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Again, the Revelation 14:6-7 passage you quoted does not refer to the Qur'an. Rather, Jesus Himself said that His Gospel is to all the world - "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Matt. 24:14).

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matt. 28:19).

"And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem" (Luke 24:46-47).

deenmb:

5. Lastly, lets look at

Isaiah 29:12
"And the book was delivered to him that is not
learned, saying Read this, I pray thee, and he said I
am not learned".

Ask any Muslim who that is and what book was delivered
to him and he gives you a straight answer that it is
Muhammad (pbuh) and the book is The Holy Quran. But
ask a Christian and you get no answer.
This is a big challenge to Christians, who is the
person and what was the Book

This definitely sounds like babs787!
With regards to Isaiah 29:12, please see the thread The Reason For So Much Anti-Christianity where a Christian answer has been given already!

deenmb:

Brothers and sisters lets open our eyes and see the
truth.

There are so many other things we can prove from the
Bible; Things like Jesus not the son of God, There is
only one God. Even pilgrimage that muslims go to Mecca
is there in the Bible.

Most of these other things have been debunked already! But it would be interesting to see your theory on Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca in the Bible - especially the Bible verse that mentions the black stone in the "Kaaba!"

deenmb:

Remember everything I mentioned here are based on
facts in the Bible and none was quoted from the Holy
Quran. Not that the Quran did not mention them , but
because Bible is the Book Cristian's believe in and
use.

Notice also that I used only Bible verses to debunk your claims.

deenmb:

Even though, the original Bible has been
adultrated in many ways.

Besides the debate about the abrogation and political redaction of the Qur'an, please tell us what the "original Bible" says in John 1:1, Mark 1:1, and Isaiah 9:6.

deenmb:

You find so many errors in
the Bible used today, but there is still enough to
prove the coming of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and the
Holy Quran.

It's easy to see Muhammad in the Bible and the Scriptures of other religions by inserting words that are not in the texts. This is how the Qur'an has been translated, and Muslims themselves do not trust any translation of the Qur'an into another language!

deenmb:

If there is any contradiction to what I mention here,
please don't hesitate to point it out.

May God guide us all. Ameen

Read through again and see that your claims are empty.

In the Bible, there is no mention of a prophet "from the Arabs" as you suggested. Isaac was not an Arab. The phrase "from among their brethren" indicates the Jews - for these were the people referred to when Moses was being addressed in Deut.18:18.

Descendants of Abraham are jews through Isaac and Arabs through Ishmael. God told Moses that he will send them a prophet like him from among their people, that means not from among Moses people not from Jews but from Arabs.

Every other prophet that came after Moses knew that Deut.18:18 pointed to Someone else; and the prophecies that followed revealed that none other was being expected than the Messiah. When the Lord Jesus Christ revealed in the New Testament, Deut. 18:18 was fulfilled. There is no other prophet that has been seen to fulfill the many prophecies of the OT in every detail about the Messiah than Jesus Himself.

Is Jesus prophet or God to you
It is good now that you are accepting Jesus as a prophet.

John 1:25-30 - "And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet? John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose. These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing. The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me."

You can see that John did not speak at all of Muhammad. Rather, his testimony and ministry were focused on Jesus.

There were three questions asked, and all three were answered
1. Are you the Christ?
2. Are you Elijah?
3. Are you the prophet?
We know the Christ, we know Elijah, the other question is who is the prophet

In the first place, Muhammad did not now who the Holy Spirit is - and he confused the Spirit for the angel Gabriel.

Holy spirit was said to be around during and before Jesus’s time. The one Jesus referred to came after Jesus has left.
If you believe Muhammad confused the spirit for Angel Gabriel, then why doubt the Quran when it came through angel Gabriel.

Secondly, the Word of God is not subject to "abrogation" - but the Qur'an itself confirms that the "Allah" preached by Muhammad was a being who abrogated verses in the Qur'an.

Point it out, I am not going to talk more about this, because we need valid facts.

Hi again @deenmb,

deenmb:

Descendants of Abraham are jews through Isaac and Arabs through Ishmael.

That's a queer admission by a Muslim, because many Muslim apologists have in recent times tried to deny that Abraham was the father of the Jews.

deenmb:

God told Moses that he will send them a prophet like him from among their people, that means not from among Moses people not from Jews but from Arabs.

Okay. Perhaps you should check verse 15 of that chapter in Deuteronomy 18 again ~~ "¹⁵The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken."

Is it clear now? The Prophet spoken of would be a Jew; for He would be raised from the midst of the Jews, and not the Arabs.

Even then, when you look carefully at verse 18, you would just have to concede that Muhammad never qualified in any respect as the Prophet like unto Moses.

deenmb:

Is Jesus prophet or God to you

Both.

deenmb:

It is good now that you are accepting Jesus as a prophet.

Even then, being the expected Prophet did not take away from His deity.

deenmb:

There were three questions asked, and all three were answered
1. Are you the Christ?
2. Are you Elijah?
3. Are you the prophet?
We know the Christ, we know Elijah, the other question is who is the prophet

All three questions were answered; and Jesus Himself was that Prophet - as He confirmed in John 5:46 >> "For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me."

Not only so, but others who listened to Jesus were convinced beyond the shadow of a doubt that He was the very Prophet of whom Moses wrote:

"Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph." (John 1:45)

"Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world" (John 6:14)

"Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet" (John 7:40).

deenmb:

Holy spirit was said to be around during and before Jesus’s time. The one Jesus referred to came after Jesus has left.

It is the same Holy Spirit of God. When you search through the Qur'an, you only have to admit that Muhammad knew nothing about the Holy Spirit, for he confused him for the angel Gabriel.

deenmb:

If you believe Muhammad confused the spirit for Angel Gabriel, then why doubt the Quran when it came through angel Gabriel.

Because neither Moses nor Jesus confused the Holy Spirit for angel Gabriel - not one time! Moreover, the character of angel Jibril (Gabriel) in the Qur'an is far removed from the real angel Gabriel revealed in the Bible. Muhammad only made a claim about the Holy Spirit being angel Gabriel/Jibril - and for all that, he confused the character and identty of both.

deenmb:

Point it out, I am not going to talk more about this, because we need valid facts.

Looking forward to your valid facts.

These muslims na wa for them. Grabing at straws to authenticate their prophet and his book. Why look to the bible? i thought you guys believe the bible has been tampered with. even a dim wit can see how impossible it is for deuteronomy 18 to be a reference to mohammed.

@syrup.

I have given you some verses from the book of Isaiah that referred to Prophet Muhammed.

Now lets address the issue one after the other. First will be Deuteronomy 18v18 and after that we go to John 16v7.

I will like to hear from you, what made the prophesy rests on Jesus.

@syrup

Posted by syrup
That's a queer admission by a Muslim, because many Muslim apologists have in recent times tried to deny that Abraham was the father of the Jews.

He may be the father of the jews but he wasnt a jew

Posted by syrup
Okay. Perhaps you should check verse 15 of that chapter in Deuteronomy 18 again ~~ "15The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken."

Is it clear now? The Prophet spoken of would be a Jew; for He would be raised from the midst of the Jews, and not the Arabs.

Even then, when you look carefully at verse 18, you would just have to concede that Muhammad never qualified in any respect as the Prophet like unto Moses.

So to you, in the midst of their brethren means among the jews. Please read the construction of the sentence you are referring to.

Posted by syrup
All three questions were answered; and Jesus Himself was that Prophet - as He confirmed in John 5:46 >> "For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me."

Not only so, but others who listened to Jesus were convinced beyond the shadow of a doubt that He was the very Prophet of whom Moses wrote:

"Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph." (John 1:45)

"Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world" (John 6:14)

In that case, Let me have your valid points that will make the above prophesy refer to Jesus.

@lafile,

We will see as we proceed.

@babs787,

babs787:

I have given you some verses from the book of Isaiah that referred to Prophet Muhammed.

And I have addressed the Isaiah passage to show that Muhammad was never in the picture.

babs787:

Now lets address the issue one after the other. First will be Deuteronomy 18v18 and after that we go to John 16v7.

I will like to hear from you, what made the prophesy rests on Jesus.

The prophecy of Deut. 18:18 clearly points to Christ - and I've offered several texts both in the OT and NT to show this.

babs787:

He may be the father of the jews but he wasnt a jew

Abraham was more Jewish than Arab. His son Ishmael was by an Egyptian handmaid called Hagar (Gen. 16:15 & 25:12). Abraham himself was called an 'Hebrew' (Gen. 14:13); and there was an establish distinction between Egyptians and the Hebrews (Gen 43:32).

Abraham's descendants through Isaac came to be known as 'the Hebrews' (cf. Jer. 34:9); and this same name came to be later known as the Jews (2 Chron. 32:18 & Ezra 5:1).

"That every man should let his manservant, and every man his maidservant, being an Hebrew or an Hebrewess, go free; that none should serve himself of them, to wit, of a[b] Jew[/b] his brother" (Jer. 34:9).

Since both "Hebrew" and "Jew" are synonymous, Abraham being a Hebrew was most definitely a Jew.

babs787:

So to you, in the midst of their brethren means among the jews. Please read the construction of the sentence you are referring to.

When Scripture speaks to the Jews in language about their 'brethren', it is usually intended to mean an Isrealite and not a stranger or non-Jew.

#1. ". . .but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour" (Lev. 25:46).

#2. ". . . Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother" (Deut. 17:15).

The Arabs are not considered Jewish by any stretch - and to apply Deut. 18:15 & 18 to an Arab (Muhammad) is to twist Scripture to mean something it never meant.

babs787:

In that case, Let me have your valid points that will make the above prophesy refer to Jesus.

Incase you missed it, here again:

Jesus Himself was that Prophet - as He confirmed in John 5:46 >> "For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me."

Not only so, but others who listened to Jesus were convinced beyond the shadow of a doubt that He was the very Prophet of whom Moses wrote:

"Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph." (John 1:45)

"Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world" (John 6:14)

@syrup,

Abraham was never a jew. He was a man from the other side. He was a Hebrew. The descendants of Jacob were Israelites consisting of the twelve tribes.Judah was nicknamed 'jew' so that only Judah's descendants were called Jews originally.

For us to get to where we are going, lets all agree that Jesus was prophesised in the book of moses.

My question is

Give me the similarities between Moses and Jesus that will prove that the prophesy is for Jesus

@syrup,

Good Word my sister, good Word.  I must caution you however that these folks are averse to truth. Of them it is written in Romans 1:25 - "Who changed the truth of God into a lie".

While we hold out the Word of truth in hope that they have been amply witnessed to, our efforts must be underscored by the knowledge that there are those who are weak of heart who need to hear the truth spoken by us for them to be established.  For such, we shall continually refute these lies and hold forth the banner of righteousness.

For those who care to read and understand, Deuteronomy 18 is very clear as to the race of the Prophet being spoken of. The same phrase used in verse 18 is also used in verse 2 to describe the 12 tribes. Here they are agains: verse 18: I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, verse 2: Therefore shall they have no inheritance among their brethren: the LORD is their inheritance, as he hath said unto them. . If you can stretch the phrase in verse 2 to include the Bedoiun tribe, then I guess you can begin to think of Mohammed as the one spoken of in verse 18.

If we choose to use just common sense, then we will realise that for anyone to be a brother to the 12 tribes, that person must be a direct child/son of Jacob. The Arabs are natural sons of Abraham and can only be refered to as distant cousins to the 12 tribes. I only hope that common sense will be allowed to prevail in the minds of these over zealous muslims.

Hi @TayoD,

Well, thanks for your input - much appreciated. I only hope that babs787 would come round himself and acknowledge the fact that Muhammad was nowhere prophecied in Bible as sent by God.

@babs787,

babs787:

@syrup,

Abraham was never a jew. He was a man from the other side. He was a Hebrew. The descendants of Jacob were Israelites consisting of the twelve tribes.Judah was nicknamed 'jew' so that only Judah's descendants were called Jews originally.

What essential difference is there between being called a Jew and an Hebrew? Every Jew knows that to be "Jew" was to be "Hebrew" -- "Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I."

From Jer. 34:9, it is clear that 'Hebrew' and 'Jew' are synonymous.

babs787:

For us to get to where we are going, lets all agree that Jesus was prophesised in the book of moses.

If you can agree to that, what then is the need to belabour the question any further? If Jesus Christ was the Prophet to come, then there just is no rational for anyone debating what lies outside the parameters of that agreement; in which case we can only agree as well that Moses did not write about Muhammad.

babs787:

Give me the similarities between Moses and Jesus that will prove that the prophesy is for Jesus

As above, if as you said: "lets all agree that Jesus was prophesised in the book of moses", then what similarities between Moses and Jesus should be sufficient to prove the case? I'm willing to oblige you; but perhaps you might as well proffer the same with Muhammad.

@syrup,

Thanks for the post.

Let me now move on

Three unlikes

1. Jesus is not like moses, because according to christians, jesus is a God but Moses is not.

2. Acording to christians, jesus died for your sins while Moses did not.

3. According to you, jesus went to hell for three days but Moses did not go there.

based on the three unlikes above, jesus is unlike moses, so the prophesy cannot be for him.

Eight similarities between Moses and Muhammed

1. Father and Mother

Moses had a father and mother, Muhammed also had a father and mother, but Jesus had only mother, and no human father. Therefore, Jesus is not like moses

2. Miraculous Birth

Moses and Muhammed (Pbuh) were born in the normal, natural course i.e the p[hysical association of man and woman, but Jesus was created by a special miracle. You will recall that we are told in the Gosdpel of St. Mathew 1v18 ", before they came together, (joseph the carpenter and mary), she was found with child by the Holy Ghost'. And St. Luke tells us that when the good news of the birth of a holy son was announced to her, Mary reasoned ", how shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And th angel answered and said unto her, the holy ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the highet shall overshadow theee, " (Luke 1v35). The Holy Quran confirms the miraculous birth too, in nobler and sublimer terms, In answer to her logical question ,"o my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me? the angel says in reply: Even so: Allah createth what he willeth; when he hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, "BE" and it is. ( Quran 3 v47). Based on the above, Jesus is not like Moses.

3. Marriage Ties

Moses and Muhammed married and begot children, but Jesus remained a bachelor al his life. Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhammed is like Moses.

4. Jesus rejected by his people

Moses and Muhammed were accepted as prophets by their people in their very lifetime. No doubt the Jews gave endless trouble to Moses in the wilderness but they acknowledged that Moses was Messenger of God sent to them. The Arabs too, made Muhammed's life impossible. He suffered very badly at their hands. After 13 years of preaching in Mecca, he had to emigrate from the city of his birth. But before his demise, the Arab nation as a whole accepted him as the Messenger of Allah. But according to the bible - He (Jesus) came unto his own, but his own received him not (john 1 v1). And even today, after 2,000 years, his people - the jews as a whole have rejected him. Therefore, Jesus is not like moses but Muhammed.

5. Other wordly kingdom

Moses and Muhammed were prophets as well as kings. By prophet, I mean a man who received Divine Revelation for the guidance of man and this Guidance he conveys to God’s creatures as received without any addition or deletion. A king is a person who has the power of life and death over his people. It is immaterial if he wears crown or not. Moses possessed such a power. He had an Israelite stoned to death for picking firewood on th Sabbath day (numbers 15v36). There are other crimes mentioned in the bible for which capital punishment was inflicted on the Jews at the behest of Moses. Muhammad too had the power of life and death over his people.

There are instances in the bible of persons who were given gift of prophesy only but they were not in the position to implement their directives. Some of these holy men of God who were helpless in the face of stubborn rejection of their message were the prophets Lot, Jonah, Daniel, Ezra and John the Baptist. They could only deliver the message but could not enforce the Law. The Holy Prophet Jesus unfortunately also belonged to this category. The Gospel clearly confirms this: when Jesus was dragged before the Roman Governor, Pilate, charged for sedition, Jesus made a point tin his defence to refute the false charge: Jesus answered , “ My kingdom is not of this world, if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight that I should not be delivered to the Jews, but now is my kingdom not from hence (john 18v36). Therefore Jesus is not like Moses.

6. No new laws

Moses and Muhammad brought new laws and new regulations for their people; Moses not only gave the Ten Commandments to the Israelites, but a very comprehensive ceremonial law for the guidance of his people. Mohammed comes to a people steeped in barbarism and ignorance. They married their stepmothers, they buried their daughters alive, drunkenness, adultery, idolatry and gambling were the order of the day.

From this abject of barbarism, Muhammad elevated them. He gave his people Law s and order they never had before.

As regards Jesus, he told the Jews that he didn’t come with new laws or regulations. I quote his words, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am not come to destroy but to fulfill for verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (Mathew 5 v 17-18)

In other words, he had not come with any new laws or regulations; he came only to fulfill old law. This is what he gave the Jews to understand. Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses but Muhammed.

7. How they departed

Both Moses and Muhammad died natural deaths, but according to Christians, Jesus was violently killed on the cross. Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses but Muhammad

8. Heavenly abode

Moses and Muhammad both were buried in earth, but according to Christians, Jesus rests in heaven. Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhammad.

Let me have yours probably listed in the format above or in any arragement whatsoever and after that, we move to john 16 v 7.

Thank you and God bless.

@babs787,

Many thanks for providing your points to the issues at hand. Here are my answers:

babs787:

1. Jesus is not like moses, because according to christians, jesus is a God but Moses is not.

It is true that Moses was not deity. However, Deut.18:18 was not dealing with deity of Christ - and the Prophet prophesied in that verse was to assume a human role. We read that the Prophet would come "from among their brethren" (which focuses on His humanity) and not "from the Godhead" (which is a matter of deity). In anycase, that verse was not comparing Moses to God at all.

babs787:

2. Acording to christians, jesus died for your sins while Moses did not.

That is true. However, Muhammad was not said anywhere to have died like Moses either. Infact, it would be interesting for you to find me a verse in the Qur'an where Muhammad's death was recorded like that of Moses.

babs787:

3. According to you, jesus went to hell for three days but Moses did not go there.

That is also true in some sense. However, Jesus' death and resurrection formed the theme of the discussion Moses and Elijah had with Jesus on the mount of transfiguration (Luke 9:30-31). It is nowhere reported that Moses stood with Muhammad discussing anything at all, no?

babs787:

based on the three unlikes above, jesus is unlike moses, so the prophesy cannot be for him.

In none of the three points above would Muhammad have qualified to be that Prophet like unto Moses.

babs787:

Eight similarities between Moses and Muhammed

1. Father and Mother

Moses had a father and mother, Muhammed also had a father and mother, but Jesus had only mother, and no human father. Therefore, Jesus is not like moses

If human parents were the criteria, then all the prophets would have qualified rather than Muhammad - because they all had human mothers and fathers. Besides, Deut. 18:18 makes highlights a point that greatly point to Jesus as that Prophet: He would be like unto Moses in his cultural identity - Jewish.

babs787:

2. Miraculous Birth

Moses and Muhammed (Pbuh) were born in the normal, natural course i.e the p[hysical association of man and woman, but Jesus was created by a special miracle.

If this point is about a miraculous birth as a criteria, then neither Moses nor Muhammad had anything supernatural in their births. On the other hand, so long as we are looking at Bible texts and not the Qur'an, please note that Jesus was NOT created.

babs787:

You will recall that we are told in the Gosdpel of St. Mathew 1v18 ", before they came together, (joseph the carpenter and mary), she was found with child by the Holy Ghost'. And St. Luke tells us that when the good news of the birth of a holy son was announced to her, Mary reasoned ", how shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And th angel answered and said unto her, the holy ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the highet shall overshadow theee, " (Luke 1v35). The Holy Quran confirms the miraculous birth too, in nobler and sublimer terms, In answer to her logical question ,"o my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me? the angel says in reply: Even so: Allah createth what he willeth; when he hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, "BE" and it is. ( Quran 3 v47). Based on the above, Jesus is not like Moses.

And how has that established that Muhammad was like unto Moses either?

babs787:

3. Marriage Ties

Moses and Muhammed married and begot children, but Jesus remained a bachelor al his life. Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhammed is like Moses.

If marriage and bearing children was a criteria at all, then all the prophets would have long qualified to be the Prophet, and not Muhammad. In the first place, Moses was not a polygamist; whereas Muhammad had several wives. Between these two prophets, how many children did they each have - were the number of children the same?? Muhammad does not pass the test merely on marriage ties and siring children.

babs787:


4. Jesus rejected by his people

Moses and Muhammed were accepted as prophets by their people in their very lifetime. No doubt the Jews gave endless trouble to Moses in the wilderness but they acknowledged that Moses was Messenger of God sent to them. The Arabs too, made Muhammed's life impossible. He suffered very badly at their hands. After 13 years of preaching in Mecca, he had to emigrate from the city of his birth. But before his demise, the Arab nation as a whole accepted him as the Messenger of Allah. But according to the bible - He (Jesus) came unto his own, but his own received him not (john 1 v1). And even today, after 2,000 years, his people - the jews as a whole have rejected him. Therefore, Jesus is not like moses but Muhammed.

This is interesting, but let me break it down for you:

#1. Moses also suffered rejection by the Jews initially; and this painful experience was to follow him for most of his life so much so that he named on of his sons Gershom, "for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land" (see Exo. 213-15 & 21-22).

#2. Moses' life was threatened at birth and adulthood (Ex. 1:15-16, 22; 2:15), just as the Lord Jesus' life was threatened at birth and adulthood (Matt. 2:16 & John 5:16). Consequently, both Moses and Jesus had to go into exile for a while before returning to fulfill their divine callings.

#3. Even in their adult ministries, some of the Jews rejected Moses and challenged his leadership and divine calling (Ex. 32:1 & 23; Num. 26:9); as was the case in Jesus adult ministry (Matt. 21;23). However, there are hundreds of thousands of Jews who have believed in Jesus Christ -both in the first century (John 11:45; 12:11) as well through history to date. A few examples: Jewish believers in Jesus Christ and Jews For Jesus.

So, you see that this criteria does not stand in your defence.

babs787:

5. Other wordly kingdom

Moses and Muhammed were prophets as well as kings. By prophet, I mean a man who received Divine Revelation for the guidance of man and this Guidance he conveys to God’s creatures as received without any addition or deletion. A king is a person who has the power of life and death over his people. It is immaterial if he wears crown or not. Moses possessed such a power. He had an Israelite stoned to death for picking firewood on th Sabbath day (numbers 15v36). There are other crimes mentioned in the bible for which capital punishment was inflicted on the Jews at the behest of Moses. Muhammad too had the power of life and death over his people.

#1. Not only was Jesus a Prophet; but more than that, He was born a King (Matt. 2:2; Luke 23:3: John 18:37).

#2. As a King and Prophet, Jesus had the power of life and death over all; and more than anyone else, He demonstrated both in raising the dead and pronouncing divine judgement to evil doers.

#3. The true nature of having divine powers of life and death is not explicated on the use of capital punishment (for if that were the case, then others would be far more qualified than Muhammad in this matter). Muhammad never was able to save anyone miraculously. Whereas, Moses miraculously led the Israelites through the Red Sea and closed the mighty waves over the Egyptians who pursued after them (Exodus 14).

babs787:

There are instances in the bible of persons who were given gift of prophesy only but they were not in the position to implement their directives. Some of these holy men of God who were helpless in the face of stubborn rejection of their message were the prophets Lot, Jonah, Daniel, Ezra and John the Baptist. They could only deliver the message but could not enforce the Law.

At best this is an Islamic version and interpretation. However, the names mentioned were not sent with any Law, so there was nothing to "enforce." Secondly, they were not helpless in the face of stubborn rejection; but rather were mighty men of power who brought evil men to their knees without so much as force anything, as in the case with Jonah and Daniel.

babs787:

The Holy Prophet Jesus unfortunately also belonged to this category. The Gospel clearly confirms this: when Jesus was dragged before the Roman Governor, Pilate, charged for sedition, Jesus made a point tin his defence to refute the false charge: Jesus answered , “ My kingdom is not of this world, if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight that I should not be delivered to the Jews, but now is my kingdom not from hence (john 18v36). Therefore Jesus is not like Moses.

Jesus did not belong to the "category" that you have devised above. He had a clear mission of implicit obedience to the Father's will - just as Moses was implicit in his obedience. And that is why, even though Jesus had so much power in His word as to make the soldiers fall backwards (John 18:6), He rather willingly gave Himself up for the salvation of the world.

In this 5th point about "Other Wordly kingdom", Muhammad still does not in any way fit the description of being like unto Moses.

babs787:

6. No new laws

Moses and Muhammad brought new laws and new regulations for their people; Moses not only gave the Ten Commandments to the Israelites, but a very comprehensive ceremonial law for the guidance of his people. Muhammad comes to a people steeped in barbarism and ignorance. They married their stepmothers, they buried their daughters alive, drunkenness, adultery, idolatry and gambling were the order of the day.

From this abject of barbarism, Muhammad elevated them. He gave his people Law s and order they never had before.

As regards Jesus, he told the Jews that he didn’t come with new laws or regulations. I quote his words, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am not come to destroy but to fulfill for verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (Mathew 5 v 17-18)

In other words, he had not come with any new laws or regulations; he came only to fulfill old law. This is what he gave the Jews to understand. Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses but Muhammed.

#1. In stating that Muhammad came with new laws, you confirm that he rejected the Laws of God given unto Moses.

#2. In acknowledging that Jesus came not with new laws but rather to confirm the precedent one, then you unwittingly acknowledge that Jesus was like unto Moses.

#3. In talking about the evils prevalent in their days, Moses gave the Jews a national status unrivalled and unequalled among the nations of his time (Deut. 4:6-; whereas Jesus also offered a surpassing dignity unrivalled even by Islam.

babs787:

7. How they departed

Both Moses and Muhammad died natural deaths, but according to Christians, Jesus was violently killed on the cross. Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses but Muhammad

Many prophets died naturally - and therefore, if dying naturally is a criteria at all, then Muhammad was least qualified to fit the description of the Prophet.

babs787:


8. Heavenly abode

Moses and Muhammad both were buried in earth, but according to Christians, Jesus rests in heaven. Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhammad.

Jesus was also buried on earth after His death (Mark 15:46). He rose again and sits in heaven as we await His second coming.

If being buried on earth was a criteria at all, then many other prophets before Muhammad would surely have qualified to be that Prophet long before. This criteria does not make Muhammad like unto Moses.

babs787:

Let me have yours probably listed in the format above or in any arragement whatsoever and after that, we move to john 16 v 7.

Thank you and God bless.

I will oblige you a follow-up of mine soonest. Many thanks and blessings.

@syrup.

Thanks for the post again.

I will hold on till I receive your follow-up before posting my rejoinder to your last post.

@babs787,

I appreciate your patience and will oblige you later today. Thanks again.

@babs787,

Three unlikes

1. Jesus is not like moses, because according to christians, jesus is a God but Moses is not.

2. Acording to christians, jesus died for your sins while Moses did not.

3. According to you, jesus went to hell for three days but Moses did not go there.

based on the three unlikes above, jesus is unlike moses, so the prophesy cannot be for him.

I am dissapointed that you ould only come up with 3 unlikes and yet come to such a conclusion. Let me now tender at least 10 unlikes between Moses and Muhammad.

1.  Moses was a Jew while Muhammad was not.

2.  Moses was a Monogamist while Muhammad was a polygamist.

3.  Moses was literate while Muhammad was illeterate 9at least that is what they claim).

4.  Moses was a Shepherd while Muhammad was a trader (and later a raider)

5.  Moses heard directly from God, Muhammad did not.

6.  No one knows where Moses was buried, while Mohammeds grave is known.

7.  Moses had numerous eye witnesses to his divine encounters while Muhammad had nothing.

8.  Moses appeared with Jesus in the New Testament while Muhammad did not.

9.  Moses performed miracles, while Muhammad did not.

10. Moses saw God face to face while Muhammad did not.

So based on your reasoning, Muhammad is absolutely not the one prophesied in Deuteronomy.

And as per the similarites you stated, same applies to Joshua, David, Nehemiah, Elisha, Isaiah etc, So what is your point?

@TayoD,

You anticipated me on that, and my thanks. You often seem to say what's in my mind on a few topics, and that's very much appreciated. However, I'd like to highlight some of the points you made with a different approach.

#1. Moses was a Jew while Muhammad was not.

That is precisely the point in Deut. 18:15 that the Prophet to be raised was to be from among the Jews - "of thy brethren." This is doubly confirmed in the statement Jesus made that 'salvation is of the Jews' (John 4:22).

#2. Moses was a Monogamist while Muhammad was a polygamist.

That is true; however, I really don't think that the profile of the Prophet in Deut. 18:15 should rest on the criteria of marital status. The Lord Jesus wasn't married; whereas both Moses and Muhammad were. However, Muhammad was very much unlike Moses in that the former promoted polygamy while both Jesus and Moses preached monogamy.

#3. Moses was literate while Muhammad was illeterate 9at least that is what they claim).

True again; but anyone could argue against this as Moses receive his training in Egypt, which is not the case with Jesus. I would be more inclined to argue that the circumstances surrounding their births in connection with Egypt are identical; which is not the case with Muhammad.

#4. Moses was a Shepherd while Muhammad was a trader (and later a raider)

Occupation, like marital status, may not be advanced as a criteria, as Jesus was a carpenter.

#5. Moses heard directly from God, Muhammad did not.

This is a very sound point, and one that Deut. 18:15 indicates by the clause 'like unto me' in reference to the Prophet being like unto Moses. Not only was the point made that the Prophet like unto Moses was to speak directly from God ('will put my words in his mouth'); but such suggest that the Prophet would hear directly from God. Muhammad does not qualify in this role at all; while Jesus was exactly like unto Moses here.

#6. No one knows where Moses was buried, while Mohammeds grave is known.

Same could be argued for Jesus, for His tomb/sepulchre was known to His followers.

#7. Moses had numerous eye witnesses to his divine encounters while Muhammad had nothing.

In the sense of the miracles performed, another strong point in my opinion and agreeable to the profile of the Prophet in Deut. 18:15 & 18; especially the miracle of compared in the discourse of the Lord Jesus in John 6:31-32.

#8. Moses appeared with Jesus in the New Testament while Muhammad did not.

Another strong point.

#9. Moses performed miracles, while Muhammad did not.

There again.

#10. Moses saw God face to face while Muhammad did not.

Yet another very strong point.

I really haven't had much time these days on the Forum; and when I can, then more points will be posted.

Cheers all.

@tayod & syrup

Tayod, you have attacking me based on the unlikes but you have not posted the similarities between the two.

I will definitely work on your post (syrup) and get back at you.

We are still on 'like unto thee', after that we move to 'among your brethren' and finally to 'I will put my words in his mouth'

Take care while you await my post.

@babs787,

Tayod, you have attacking me based on the unlikes but you have not posted the similarities between the two.

Who is attacking you? What do you mean by the loose use of that language?

Go back and read my post again. I mentioned that there is no thing special about the similarities you claim exists between Moses and Mohammed. All you claim in similarities is common to as many prophets of the bible as I can think of. So your arguments fall straight to the ground.

I am waiting for your paste up from other websites.

interesting thread indeed.
So allah must have preserved some areas in the corrupted Bible to validate Mohammed.
This alla sef

@babyosis,

It seems you develop cold feet for this word "Allah"? But I will ask you some honest questions:

What language is arabic bible written?

What name do we have for God in the arabic bible?

Also, was Jesus aware of the name "God" during his time?

What is the real name of God?

@tayod,


Well sorry for the word 'attacked". I only meant that you only laid emphasis on the unlikes but not on similarities.

By the way, you all believe that babs has been lifting from sites. You will never know more than you already know if you decide to stay with the little you are hearing from your pastors. I don’t need to go into my story again but you might have come across my posts in which I have been using different versions of your bible. If that’s your belief, you are entitled to your opinion. If you need any bible verse, I will always give it to you. You can never pull wool over me when it comes to bible. When one of your sisters told me that she would oblige me later, did I say that she wanted to lift from sites? That’s the hypocrisy we have been talking. Somebody will go scot free for saying something so far he/she is a christian but muslims will always be penalised for the same act.

Now, from my first post, I listed three unlikes and some similarities between Moses and Muhammad. You decided to act on the unlikes claiming that I disappointed you with just three unlikes, and as such came out with 10 unlikes.

Let me reply your post (syrup & tayod):


#1. Moses was a Jew while Muhammad was not.

Moses was not a Jew but a Levi

exodus 2 v 1-2: During this time, a man and woman from the tribe of Levi got married. The woman became pregnant and gave birth to a son.

The name ‘Jacob’ was changed to Israel after wrestling with God. The descendants of Jacob were Israelites consisting of the twelve tribe. Judah was nicknamed ‘jew’ so that only Judah’s descendants were called Jews originally.

Also on Moses, read Exodus 6 v 16 – 20: And these are the names of the sons of Levi according to their generations, Ghershan, and Kohath and Merari,,, and the sons of Kohath; Amram,, and Amran took him Jochebed his father’s sister to wife and she bare him Aaron and Moses.

So Moses was not a jew because he did not descend from Judah but a Levite. He was a ‘law giver’ to the children of Israel.



#2. Moses was a Monogamist while Muhammad was a polygamist.

Well, both of them married while Jesus never did. You claimed that Muhammed preached Polygamy while Jesus and Moses preached Monogamy, can you please bring out from the bible where it is said that you must not marry more than one wife as said by both of them.


#3. Moses was literate while Muhammad was illeterate 9at least that is what they claim).

I accept that



#4. Moses was a Shepherd while Muhammad was a trader (and later a raider)

Accepted



#5. Moses heard directly from God, Muhammad did not.

I will explain that when we get to the phrase, ‘I will put my words in his mouth’



#6. No one knows where Moses was buried, while Mohammeds grave is known.

Here, they were all buried but Jesus rose the 3rd day (as put by Christians) while muhammed and moses never did that.



#7. Moses had numerous eye witnesses to his divine encounters while Muhammad had nothing.

Muhammed did too



#8. Moses appeared with Jesus in the New Testament while Muhammad did not.

We are talking similarities, like unto thee and not ‘appearing together’



#9. Moses performed miracles, while Muhammad did not.

He performed many miracles just like in the above

a. Water coming out of his finger in which it was used for ablution for many people.
b. He made the moon split into two
c. His ascension to heaven to bring the five daily compulsory prayers




#10. Moses saw God face to face while Muhammad did not.

Muhammed saw God too during his ascension to heaven

Read:
Quran 17 v 1

Almighty Allah had said: Glorified (and Exalted) be He (Allah) (above all that evil they associate with Him), Who took His slave Muhammad for a journey by night from AL Masjid al Haram (at Makka) to the farthest mosque (in Jerusalem), the neighborhood whereof We have blessed, order that We might show him (Muhammad) of Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, lessons, signs, etc.). Verily, He is the All Hearer, the All Seer."

In the twelfth year of his mission, the Prophet made his night journey from Mecca to Jerusalem, and thence to heaven. His journey, known in history as Miraj (Ascension) was a real bodily one and not only a vision. It was at this time that Allah ordered the Muslims to pray the five daily prayers.


In the first heaven, he saw Adam there.

In the second heaven, he saw John (Yahya) and Jesus (Isa), who were cousins of each other.

In the third heaven, he saw Joseph (Yusuf),

In the fourth heaven, he saw Enoch (Idris),

In the fifth heaven, he saw Aaron (Harun),

In the sixth heaven, he Moses (Musa)

In the seventh heaven, he Abraham (Ibrahim).

If you have read the verse very well, you would have seen the phrase, 'Like unto thee". Like unto thee here means that the prophet that the phrase refers to must have similarities with jesus. So here, you are being one sided, acting on my unlikes to derive your own unlikes and never bother to go into the similarities between moses and jesus.

For better clarification, below are the similarities again:

Eight similarities between Moses and Muhammed

1. Father and Mother

2. Miraculous Birth

3. Marriage Ties

4. Jesus rejected by his people

5. Other worldly kingdom

6. No new laws

7. How they departed

8. Heavenly abode


Let me have yours probably listed in the format above or in any arrangement whatsoever and after that, we move to john 16 v 7.

Byeeeeeeeeeee

@babs787,

Moses was not a Jew but a Levi

This is like saying Tony Blair is not a European but a Briton. I'm sure you know he is both. Same thing with Moses, he may have being of the tribe of Levi, but he is certaibly a Jew or a Hebrew.

Well, both of them married while Jesus never did. You claimed that Muhammed preached Polygamy while Jesus and Moses preached Monogamy, can you please bring out from the bible where it is said that you must not marry more than one wife as said by both of them.

Your arguments are just becoming laughable. The fact remains that Mohammed and Moses view marriage differently which is evidenced by their lifestyle. Polygamy is a consequence of the fall in the Garden but it is not God's divine plan just a Jesus said: but from the beginning it was not so.

I will explain that when we get to the phrase, ‘I will put my words in his mouth’

There is no explanation to this. Mohammed claimed an angel spoke to him and not God directly. If he hears directly from God, there will not be what is called the abbrogated verses.

Here, they were all buried but Jesus rose the 3rd day (as put by Christians) while muhammed and moses never did that.

Why you are bringing Jesus into the picture here is beyond me. Are we not comparng Mohammed to Moses? In any case, can you point out where moses was buried? No. Can you pint out where Mohammed was buried? Yes.

Muhammed did too

What? How many people saw an angel talk to him? None. The only thing close to witness is the observance of his numerous seizures which to a trained eye is no more than a glitch in the brain. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seizure

We are talking similarities, like unto thee and not ‘appearing together’

Is that a way of saying you see no similarities between Moses and Mohammed here?

He performed many miracles just like in the above

You are talking about fairy tales with no validity here. For instance, over 500 people saw Jesus after His resurrection. A tale by one seeking to be relevant is not a proof.

Muhammed saw God too during his ascension to heaven

Is that so? Who ascended with Him and testified to this ascersion. Moses had at least 70 people with him when they sat face to face with God. And by the way, that travel by Mohammed to heaven is no more than a tale told by a great story teller.

@babs787,

Here are what you consider similarities between Moses and Mohammed. I will show you that those that are valid are not peculiar to Moses and mohammed but other Prophets as well.

1. Father and Mother

Isaiah and other Prophets had fathers and mothers as well.

2. Miraculous Birth

Isaiah and other Prophets were not born miraculously as well.

3. Marriage Ties

Isaiah and other Prophets were marriage too.

4. Jesus rejected by his people

Wasn't Mohammed too rejected by his people? This is the case for all Prophets, true and fake alike.

5. Other worldly kingdom

i don't know what you mean by this.

6. No new laws

What are you talking about here

7. How they departed

There is no similarity between Moses and Mohammed here. Mohammed died of sickness while Moses was waxing stronger with age. Moses died peacefully and was buried by Angels. No man knew where he was buried. Moses chose a sucessor before death while the lack of same by Mohammed is what is causing the carnage all over the world now by Sunnis and Shias.

8. Heavenly abode

Are you saying Mohammed is in heaven? Who told you so? who are the witnesses. Moses was seen from the dead glorified and in conversation with Jesus. As for Mohammed, he confessed in fear he does not know what his Allah will do to him after he dies.

@babs787,

Here are some striking similarities between Jesus and Moses.

1. Moses and Christ were born in poverty (The Israelites being under subjugation to a foreign power). (Exodus 1:9-14).

2. On both infants death was plotted. (Exodus 1:15-16,22, Matthew 2:13ff.).

3. Both were rescued by divine intervention. (Exodus 2:2-10, Matthew 2:13ff.).

4. Both were revealed by signs and wonders. (Exodus 7:10,19,20; chapters 8-12; 14:21-22; 17:6-7; Matthew 8:14ff; Luke 7:11; Matthew 14:13, etc.).

5. Moses was prepared in the wilderness for forty years; Christ for forty days. (In Biblical symbolism forty stands for preparation). (Acts 7:23 with Exodus 7:7, Matthew 4:1 ff.).

6. Both are called "faithful servant" in Scripture. (Hebrew 3:2-5).

7. Moses liberated Israel from the bondage of their oppressors; Christ liberated believers from the bondage of sin (of which Egypt throughout the Bible is the type). (Exodus, Isaiah 53, John 8:32-36, Romans 6:18-22, 8:2, Galatians 5:1).

8. The water was subject to the authority of both: (The Red Sea to Moses; the Sea of Galilee to Christ). (Exodus 14:21, 17:6, Matthew 14:22ff., John 6:16ff., Matthew 8:18).

9. Moses spoke to God, "face to face"; so did Christ, on the Mount of Transfiguration. (Exodus 33:11, Matthew 17:3).

10. After this experience, the face of Moses shone; and so did the whole appearance of Christ. (Exodus 34:29, Matthew 17:2).

11. Moses was the mediator of the Old Covenant (Testament); Christ of the New Covenant, or Testament. (Exodus 19 and 20, Hebrews 12:24).

12. Both prophesied events that were fulfilled. (Deuteronomy 18:15-22, 28:15-29:67, Matthew 24).

13. The Jews rebelled against both. (Exodus 5:21, 14:11-12, 17:2-4, Numbers 11:1-33, Luke 4:16-30, John 11:47-50, Matthew 26:50-56, 27:15-23 etc.).

14. Both died because of sin - Moses for his own sin; Christ for the sin of the whole world. (Numbers 20:12, Deuteronomy 34:4-5, I Corinthians 15:3, John 1:29, 10:14-16, Isaiah 53, etc.).

15. We have reason to believe that Moses rose again (Jude 9, Luke 9:30); Jesus Christ without doubt rose from the dead according to the Gospel. (Matthew 28:14, Luke 24:34, I Corinthians 15:4).

16. The most important and anticipated event of the life of Moses happened after his death: the occupation of the Promised Land. And so it was with Christ: Christ, being the anti-type of Moses, secured new life for us by His death. (Romans 5:6-8, 8:34, I Corinthians 15:3,22, II Corinthians 5:15, I Thessalonians 5:9-10, etc.).

While this list was not made by me, I can still add to it if you remain adamant.

I had the loudest laughter about Moses being a levite and not a Jew.
It's like saying babyosisi is from Ngwa but not from Abia state,lol.
For someone who claims total knowledge of different Bible versions,that is a fatal error.

babs787:

#1. Moses was a Jew while Muhammad was not.

Moses was not a Jew but a Levi

Me, I just dey sidon look and learn from all the debates. I can only apply the same rule to say that Muhammad was not an Arab but a Quraish.

or like saying,Mohammed did not ride animals,he rode on a camel lol

@TayoD

While this list was not made by me, I can still add to it if you remain adamant.

Never mind. Am not after whether it was made by you or not but being able to pass across the message intended for. I don’t think I will needing any again because the one you supplied can be held to be the solid points for the phrase ‘LIKE UNTO THEE” but if you want to , you may supply others you mentioned.

Honestly, your posts amaze me. We are looking at the similarities peculiar to the three of them and you are bringing in the issues of other prophets.Besides, I am not here to speak ill of jesus here but to concentrate on the topic at hand. You know me too well when it comes to that but I will not do that in order not to deviate from the main topic. If you speak ill of someone’s God, have it in mind that the same person will speak ill of your God too and you may not like it. I leave you to ponder on that.

Let me not go to your similarities on after the other.

@babs787,Here are some striking similarities between Jesus and Moses.

1. Moses and Christ were born in poverty (The Israelites being under subjugation to a foreign power). (Exodus 1:9-14).

Muhammed (saw) was born in poverty too. His father died before his birth. He also lost his mother before he was six years old. He became an orphan at the age of 6 and had to be put under the chsrge of his grandafather Abdul Muttalib. He also died two years afterwards and confided to his son Abu Talib the chrge of the little orphan Muhammed. None of the other two prophets mentioned above suffered like him during their youthful days.Also, from youth to manhood he led an almost solitary life. The lawlessness rife among the Meccans, the sudden outbursts of causeless and bloody quarrels among the tribes frequenting the Fair of Okadh (The Arabian Olympia), and the immorality and skepticism of the Quraish, naturally caused feelings of pity and sorrow in the heart of the sensitive youth.

2. On both infants death was plotted. (Exodus 1:15-16,22, Matthew 2:13ff.).

Here, the plotting of death was a hoax. I don’t know where to start but I must start somewhere.

The alleged prophecies in the Gospel of Matthew

1) Out of Egypt:

Matthew (2:15):”He stayed there until the death of Herod, that what the Lord had said through the prophet might be fulfilled, "Out of Egypt I called my son." “

This is in relation to Hosea, chapter 1:

1 When Israel was a child I loved him, out of Egypt I called my son.

2 The more I called them, the farther they went from me, sacrificing to the Baals and burning incense to idols.

3 Yet it was I who taught Ephraim to walk, who took them in my arms;”

As we can see, that is not a messianic prophecy. It identifies the son as being the Israelite people, then it goes on “The more I called them, the farther they went from me, sacrificing to the Baals….” Which, in conclusion, we can safely say that the author of Matthew ripped the passage out of context and labeled it as a prophecy.

Furthermore, it should be noted that none of the other gospels mentioned this. The reason why Matthew invented such thing is to provide some parallels between Moses and Jesus.

2) The slaughter of Children

Matthew, chapter 2:

” 16 When Herod realized that he had been deceived by the magi, he became furious. He ordered the massacre of all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had ascertained from the magi.

17 Then was fulfilled what had been said through Jeremiah the prophet:

18 "A voice was heard in Ramah, sobbing and loud lamentation; Rachel weeping for her children, and she would not be consoled, since they were no more."”

Matthew is quoting Jeremiah:

Jeremiah, chapter 31:

”15 Thus says the LORD: In Ramah is heard the sound of moaning, of bitter weeping! Rachel mourns her children; she refuses to be consoled because her children are no more.

16 Thus says the LORD: Cease your cries of mourning, wipe the tears from your eyes. The sorrow you have shown shall have its reward, says the LORD, they shall return from the enemy's land.

17 There is hope for your future, says the LORD; your sons shall return to their own borders.

18 I hear I hear Ephraim pleading: You chastised me, and I am chastened; I was an untamed calf. If you allow me, I will return, for you are the LORD, my God.”

When examined, we also conclude that there is no messianic prophecy here:

1) It is talking about the deportation of the 10 tribes of Israel.Rachel was the mother of Joseph, on the other hand Leah was the mother of Judah and the son of Joseph was Ephraim. Also, we need to note that the name Israelite was often used to denote to the 10 lost tribes of Israel. We conclude from this that Judah and his descendents were associated with Bethlehem, not Ephraim; therefore, the descendents of Judah were the children of Leah, not Rachel.

2) The verses above specifically say that the children are in the land of the enemy.

3) It is clearer once we examine verse 17, your sons shall return to their own borders.

4) Ramah is about 6 miles north of Jerusalem while Bethlehem is also about 6 miles south of Jerusalem which shows that the Geography doesn’t fit.

It should be noted also that the alleged massacre claimed by Matthew is only mentioned in his gospel. Josephus, the famous Jewish historian, on the other hand failed to mention such massacre.

Once again, it is rather clear that Matthew is fabricating stories to create parallels between Moses and Jesus. Also it should be noted that John was few years older than jesus and the massacre never affected him!!!

Flavius Josephus, the famous Jewish historian who carefully chronicled Herod's abuses, makes no mention of such massacre

www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_lippard/fabulous-prophecies.html


3. Both were rescued by divine intervention. (Exodus 2:2-10, Matthew 2:13ff.).

It has been explained in no 2. It was a hoax written by only Mathew to make people believe that Moses was like Jesus.



4. Both were revealed by signs and wonders. (Exodus 7:10,19,20; chapters 8-12; 14:21-22; 17:6-7; Matthew 8:14ff; Luke 7:11; Matthew 14:13, etc.).


No sir. All prophets of God performed one miracle or the other. Their people do not believe them until they do miracle for them. Jesus had been known before his miracles, he only did the miracle for people to believe in him. on Moses too, he did miracles in order for the people to believe that he was really sent from God. On the issue of Muhammed, his people gathered around and told him all sort of things that he should do to make them believe in him. They mocked at him and urged him for miracles to prove his mission. Despite all the exhortation of the Prophet, the Quraish persisted in asking him for a sign. They insisted that unless some sign be sent down to him from his Lord, they would not believe. The mother of all miracles is the Holy Quran. Also he did a miracle which no other prophet has done which is the bodily ascension to heaven to bring the five daily prayers.



5. Moses was prepared in the wilderness for forty years; Christ for forty days. (In Biblical symbolism forty stands for preparation). (Acts 7:23 with Exodus 7:7, Matthew 4:1 ff.).

So to you, 40 years is the same as 40 days? Is that a similarity?





6. Both are called "faithful servant" in Scripture. (Hebrew 3:2-5).

After a journey from Syria at the age of twelve years, the youth of Muhammad seems to have been passed uneventfully, but all authorities agree in ascribing to him such correctness of manners and purity of morals as were rare among the people of Mecca. The fair character and the honorable bearing of the unobtrusive youth won the approbation of the citizens of Mecca, and by common consent he received the title of "Al Ameen," The Faithful.Note, he was given the name during his time while jesus’s was done after his death which he had no knowledge of.




7. Moses liberated Israel from the bondage of their oppressors; Christ liberated believers from the bondage of sin (of which Egypt throughout the Bible is the type). (Exodus, Isaiah 53, John 8:32-36, Romans 6:18-22, 8:2, Galatians 5:1).


Na wa o.
wonder shall never end. So this another similarity?
Muhammed is like Moses in that he liberated his people from the bondage of oppression. During his time, authority in Mecca was divided among the ten senators who constituted the governing body of the Arabian Commonwealth. There was no such accord among them as to ensure the safety of individual rights and property. Though family relations afforded some degree of protection to citizens, yet strangers were frequently exposed to persecution and oppression. In many cases they were robbed, not only of their goods, but even of their wives and daughters. At the instigation of the faithful Muhammad, an old league called the Federation of Fudul, i.e., favors was revived with the object of repressing lawlessness and defending every weak individual - whether Meccan or stranger, free or slave - against any wrong or oppression to which he might be the victim within the territories of Mecca.

For three weary long years, the Prophet labored very quietly to deliver his people from the worship of idols. Polytheism was deeply rooted among the people. It offered attractions, which the new faith in its purity did not possess. The Quraish had personal material interests in the old worship, and their prestige was dependent upon its maintenance. The Prophet had to contend with the idolatrous worship of its followers and to oppose the ruling oligarchy, which governed its destinies. He stopped the killing of females, worshipping of 306 idols etc

Jesus on the order hand was never allowed to talk. A prophet was among them when he came (john the Baptist) so he didn’t liberate anybody. There is nowhere in the gospel that says he liberated his people from slavery, oppression etc. He never had control of his people whereas the other two did. They were able to maintain peace and orderliness and were great leaders during their time. Jesus on the other hand never even ruled his household let alone ruling the people. He was never allowed to control and lead his people.

Muhammed and Moses’ people feared them but reverse was the case with jesus, his people never accept him let alone fearing him. Their people (Moses and Muhamed) first rejected them and later accepted them during their life but jesus people never accepted him till he died.If we look at the three prophets, we will agree that Moses and Muhammed liberated their people from oppression, slavery etc while Jesus on the other liberated his through sin (as put by Christians). So Jesus here has no similarity with Moses.




8. The water was subject to the authority of both: (The Red Sea to Moses; the Sea of Galilee to Christ). (Exodus 14:21, 17:6, Matthew 14:22ff., John 6:16ff., Matthew 8:18).

What similarity can we infer from here now. Did Jesus part the sea? Did the Israelite cross the sea? Were they pursued to the sea?




9. Moses spoke to God, "face to face"; so did Christ, on the Mount of Transfiguration. (Exodus 33:11, Matthew 17:3).


Yes Moses ate with God too on the mountain and he even showed him part of his body!!!. Muhammed performed the greatest miracle that none of the prophets ever performed which is the bodily ascension to heaven. He saw God during his ascension where he went to bring the five daily prayers. He had it reduced from fifty to five through prophet moses.

Almighty Allah had said: Glorified (and Exalted) be He (Allah) (above all that evil they associate with Him), Who took His slave Muhammad for a journey by night from AL Masjid al Haram (at Makka) to the farthest mosque (in Jerusalem), the neighborhood whereof We have blessed, order that We might show him (Muhammad) of Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, lessons, signs, etc.). Verily, He is the All Hearer, the All Seer." ( 17:1 Quran)




10. After this experience, the face of Moses shone; and so did the whole appearance of Christ. (Exodus 34:29, Matthew 17:2).


So this is your similarity!! Like unto thee. Didn’t you go through my own similarities? Very funny.



11. Moses was the mediator of the Old Covenant (Testament); Christ of the New Covenant, or Testament. (Exodus 19 and 20, Hebrews 12:24).

Another similarity indeed!!! Which Testament are you referring to? Is it the Testamant of Ezekiel, kings, songs of Solomon, Malachi, Daniel, Isaiah etc . Is it the gospel according to Mathew or the gospel according to Luke or the book of Hebrew, Acts of Apostles, book of Romans, 1st John or 2nd john etc,




12. Both prophesied events that were fulfilled. (Deuteronomy 18:15-22, 28:15-29:67, Matthew 24).

Ok. Give me the prophesy of Moses and that of Jesus that came to pass and I will give those of Muhammed. So this is another similarity. Muhammed too prophesized events that were fulfilled.





13. The Jews rebelled against both. (Exodus 5:21, 14:11-12, 17:2-4, Numbers 11:1-33, Luke 4:16-30, John 11:47-50, Matthew 26:50-56, 27:15-23 etc.).


Muhammed too was rebelled against and that led to the wars he fought. I.e the battle of badr, the battle of trench, the battle of Uhud, Huddaibiyah Treaty etc.Do you consider that of Jesus as being rebelled against?




14. Both died because of sin - Moses for his own sin; Christ for the sin of the whole world. (Numbers 20:12, Deuteronomy 34:4-5, I Corinthians 15:3, John 1:29, 10:14-16, Isaiah 53, etc.).

Let me explain the verses one after the other.Moses died a natural death and likewise Muhammed, but jesus was crucified according to Christians. Moses died for his own sin likewise Muhammed but according to Christians, jesus died for your sin. So here, moses and Muhammed are very similar in the sense that both of them died for their sins while Jesus died for the sin of Christians. Understood?




15. We have reason to believe that Moses rose again (Jude 9, Luke 9:30); Jesus Christ without doubt rose from the dead according to the Gospel. (Matthew 28:14, Luke 24:34, I Corinthians 15:4).


Where is the similarity? All the prophets of God had risen and not only Moses this time. But the emphasis is on how they all died. Moses and Muhammed died naturally while jesus was crucified. Moses and Muhammed as well as other prophets rose but not after three days while jesus rose after three days. so no similarity here brother.





16. The most important and anticipated event of the life of Moses happened after his death: the occupation of the Promised Land. And so it was with Christ: Christ, being the anti-type of Moses, secured new life for us by His death. (Romans 5:6-8, 8:34, I Corinthians 15:3,22, II Corinthians 5:15, I Thessalonians 5:9-10, etc.).

Explain better pls. Where is the similarity man?



After that we will go to "will put my words in his mouth" and maybe "from among your brethren" and finally to John 16 v 7