But then if people are forced to settle by virtue of their visa status in a particular area of the country we all know that a good majority of them end up living the rest of their lives there. Such happened with the first generation migrants to the uk. Many areas in the west midlands like birmingham, dudley, wolverhampton attracted a lot of migrants from india and the carribeans because there where industrial jobs, till date you find a good number of such people and their generations in these areas. Very few drifted to other parts of the country as you believe.

A cap remains unworkable. Like Nick joked, what if the cap has been reached, and man united needed to buy a player from say burkina faso? Will they have to wait till next year to do that? Talk is cheap. Cameron wants to be pm desperately. He would say anything to get in there. emember Blair in 1997? Education, education education!!! Tough on crimes tough on the causes on crime?? 13 yrs later and its been failed promises.

Besides, i say again with the prospects of a hung parliament, many of the tory policies would be greatly diluted if they are to pass through parliament.

snowdrops:

But then if people are forced to settle by virtue of their visa status in a particular area of the country we all know that a good majority of them end up living the rest of their lives there. Such happened with the first generation migrants to the uk. Many areas in the west midlands like birmingham, dudley, wolverhampton attracted a lot of migrants from india and the carribeans because there where industrial jobs, till date you find a good number of such people and their generations in these areas. Very few drifted to other parts of the country as you believe.

That was because the jobs were there, and also because there were no settled immigrant communities.  Where are the industrial jobs now?  Most jobs are in London and that is why it continues to attract more jobs there. You cannot hold people down in areas by force without violating their rights.

With the well established communities already, they will ALWAYS serve as huge magnets to anyone from those cultures that arrive in the country. People come to the UK, study all over but move to the big cities - that is what will continue to happen.

Like I said, recent attempts to do this in Canada has FAILED - you used to get a longer work permit to work in some less popular areas, but when it failed, the government shifted the long permit for all areas.

A cap remains unworkable. Like Nick joked, what if the cap has been reached, and man united needed to buy a player from say burkina faso? Will they have to wait till next year to do that? Talk is cheap. Cameron wants to be pm desperately.

Why is a cap unworkable? You can make sectoral caps - take the average number of foreign football players who have come in over the past 5 years and use that to cap the numbers in football, you can do a similar thing in various sectors, with a view to gradually reducing the number as British people can take those jobs. Like Cameron clearly mentioned, by ensuring that more people on the dole do the jobs that are currently looked down upon due to the imbalances in welfare, the need for immigration will reduce.

If Universities have a cap on the number of people they can admit, why not the country? If hospitals have limits on people they can give a certain level of service to, why not the country as a whole? The key thing is HOW the cap is set.

He would say anything to get in there. emember Blair in 1997? Education, education education!!! Tough on crimes tough on the causes on crime?? 13 yrs later and its been failed promises.

Education has improved, healthcare has improved so no one can challenge Labour on those two fronts, except by claiming they can be more efficient.

1. From polls since the debate it justifies my observation during and after the debate that nick clegg came out tops. The polls showed he won hands down followed by cameron with gb a distance 3rd. YOUGOV POLL LIB DERMS >50%, CONS. 26%, LAB 21%.


2.Remember those carribeans and indians continue to remain in the west midlands. They bought houses when they arrived. They had full time jobs which meant their base was effectively restricted to that region. They are not forced to stay but are left with no choice but to remain in that region because they have got houses there, their children are in schools and their family registered with GPs.

That is what obtains in Australia and Canada like i said. Migrants are granted working visas to work in economically deprived areas. That begins the cycle spelt out above. Some may leave but majority would remain there especially under the right working conditions. You cannot tell me the system in canada failed. That is too generic. Did it fail all over the country or in particular regions? What are your sources? Was there an inquiry which declared the system a failure?

Remember that for this system to work it involves work permit visas, and not holiday or student visas. There would be conditions stipulated for people to remain in that employment. If they are to change jobs then they would have to leave the country and reapply from their home countries.


2 Univeristy is one institution. A hospital is only a building. Even if they attempt to set caps on their services, there are bound to be loop holes. A whole country is far too complicated for that to work. Remember that we are only talking about non-eu migrants. What about people from the eu? Not forgetting asylum seekers and illegal immigration. A cap is like using a hammer to kill a fly. It is unnecessary and retrogressive. Many business leaders have kicked against it.


3. NO NO NO. Many a persons would disagree on improvement in education and health. Yes waiting times have come down and there have been improvement in cancer services and cardiology, but the uk is still way behind the rest of western europe in these services.
Beaurocracy has increased under labour, too many managers and chief executives, hospitals are shutting down over the country, front line services are been cut. Same applies to education. UK has one of the highest illiteracy rate in western europe. There is complete lack of discipline in schools. Foundation schools have led to more paper work for teachers and less time to spend with their students.

It is obvious Nick Clegg isn't going to be the next PM but i hope he builds on his success in yesterdays debate, the hype and rave he is getting at the moment.

He also needs to work on his Immigration policy. It is just too porous.

Lib Dems will definitely garner more seats in the forth coming election. I hope they have enough oomph to produce the next PM come 2015

I am sure labs and tories are counting their losses at the moment after their shabby display at the debate. Personally i am disappointed in camerons showing. He had always been so impressive at PMs question throwing back anything GB shoots at him.

Yesterday he looked so pensive, like a scared little boy. GB was GB; he did not disappoint as people expected him to perform poorly. Cameron had been the one shouting for a debate, now he got it and it has hit him straight at the pace. Well he may not worry that much as the polls have shown that most of the leap in the lib derm support has come from labour voters rather than the tories.

This may well be the last PM debate as we know it. The big two parties would rather prefer to debate against each other than involve the lib derms who are capitalising on a rare oppotunity for airtime. The next format may well be tories /vs/ lab alone.

snowdrops:

I am sure labs and tories are counting their losses at the moment after their shabby display at the debate. Personally i am disappointed in camerons showing. He had always been so impressive at PMs question throwing back anything GB shoots at him.

Yesterday he looked so pensive, like a scared little boy. GB was GB; he did not disappoint as people expected him to perform poorly. Cameron had been the one shouting for a debate, now he got it and it has hit him straight at the pace. Well he may not worry that much as the polls have shown that most of the leap in the lib derm support has come from labour voters rather than the tories.

This may well be the last PM debate as we know it. The big two parties would rather prefer to debate against each other than involve the lib derms who are capitalising on a rare oppotunity for airtime. The next format may well be tories /vs/ lab alone.

David Cameron is lot of hot air, i was impressed with Nick Clegg. Well, be careful what you wish for, it was David that called for a debate when he was ahead in the polls, it's a shame he could not come up with anything, despite spending almost £14M on the election, goes to show you there are some things money can't buy, if only Lib Dems had a tenth of what to the Tory have, am sure Nick Clegg would have done better, the knives are out on Nick Clegg from the likes of The Sun, The News of The World, The Daily Telegraph and The Daily Scum whoops The Daily Mail,

fingers crossed for a hung parliament.

OMO IBO:

It is obvious Nick Clegg isn't going to be the next PM but i hope he builds on his success in yesterdays debate, the hype and rave he is getting at the moment.

He also needs to work on his Immigration policy. It is just too porous.

Lib Dems will definitely garner more seats in the forth coming election. I hope they have enough oomph to produce the next PM come 2015

Nick Clegg could be the kingmaker if their is a hung parliament. I was impressed with his performance, I hope Lib Dems get more seats, they currrently have 63 seats but the Tory party Sugar Daddy - Lord Ashcroft has poured quite a lot of money on those seats so who knows what the outcome will be.

what country are u talking abt??
in what decade is the education improving??
just cos tony blair got all these muppets in metropolitan
dont mean jack
the state of education is sickening-
buying a room full of apple macs and givin them free transport doesnt improve it
neither does dumbin down thier assesment
and forcing them all to take vocationals??- thats probably the funniest shit ive heard in a while
no education- esp in certain areas is in no way improving
and neither is the welfare of these children

the educational system needs a complete turnaround
but i dont expect that in the next 10yrs

ill be votin the libdems this yr

snowdrops:

2.Remember those carribeans and indians continue to remain in the west midlands. They bought houses when they arrived. They had full time jobs which meant their base was effectively restricted to that region. They are not forced to stay but are left with no choice but to remain in that region because they have got houses there, their children are in schools and their family registered with GPs.

Tell me the types of jobs available in those regions that would foster immigration to them TODAY. It was all well and good in the past, but there are no enticing jobs drawing people to those areas.

That is what obtains in Australia and Canada like i said. Migrants are granted working visas to work in economically deprived areas. That begins the cycle spelt out above. Some may leave but majority would remain there especially under the right working conditions. You cannot tell me the system in canada failed. That is too generic. Did it fail all over the country or in particular regions? What are your sources? Was there an inquiry which declared the system a failure?

The simplest measure is that the Canadian government SCRAPPED it, seeing that it was not working. Why would immigrants go to economically deprived areas if there are no jobs there? It doesn't work, and even if it does, it will not stop the majority of immigration into the UK which is aimed at the big urban centres.

Remember that for this system to work it involves work permit visas, and not holiday or student visas. There would be conditions stipulated for people to remain in that employment. If they are to change jobs then they would have to leave the country and reapply from their home countries.

It won't work - the demand (from employers) for work visas are not from the areas you want to regionalise to.

2 Univeristy is one institution. A hospital is only a building. Even if they attempt to set caps on their services, there are bound to be loop holes. A whole country is far too complicated for that to work. Remember that we are only talking about non-eu migrants. What about people from the eu? Not forgetting asylum seekers and illegal immigration. A cap is like using a hammer to kill a fly. It is unnecessary and retrogressive. Many business leaders have kicked against it.

EU immigrant levels are falling due to deterioriating UK conditions and will continue to fall. The MAJORITY of immigration into the UK is NON-EU, so it makes every bit of sense to enforce a cap on that number. Asylum seekers currently make up less than 10% of total immigration, so again, this is a small piece of the problem. A cap is EXACTLY what is needed to force a clear plan on HOW Britain will bring its non working population into work, instead of bringing in immigrants and continuing to support those people on benefits who can otherwise work.

3. NO NO NO. Many a persons would disagree on improvement in education and health. Yes waiting times have come down and there have been improvement in cancer services and cardiology, but the uk is still way behind the rest of western europe in these services.
Beaurocracy has increased under labour, too many managers and chief executives, hospitals are shutting down over the country, front line services are been cut. Same applies to education. UK has one of the highest illiteracy rate in western europe. There is complete lack of discipline in schools. Foundation schools have led to more paper work for teachers and less time to spend with their students.

Managers increasing doesn't mean health hasn't improved - an improvement on waiting times is exactly that - an improvement. I didn't say things became perfect at any point in time, but there are 30,000 more doctors and 70,000 more nurses - that is a clear and undeniable improvement.

A high illiteracy rate is not a measure of improvement - has it gotten better or worse since 1997? That is the question to ask - obviously issues remain, but again the government has largely expanded the number of people in higher education and there are actually more than 50% of school age women in universities now - another improvement.

I'll be voting for the lib dems for their policies which include;

Closing millionare fat cats tax loopholes which are losing the country billions in revenue,
2 million pound mansion tax,
limiting bankers bonuses to £2500 and separating investment banks from high street banks .
Raising the amount you can earn before paying any income tax to £10000.
(People earning less than £100000 will be on average £750 better off annually.)
Cutting back on the amount of trident nuclear missiles we have, saving the country more billions in spending.
Plus they were the only main party who saw through the lies of tony blair and george bush and were against the invasion of iraq.

And they have put all the figures and calculations in their manifesto to be examined, which none of the other parties have done.

I hope they win and bring about the real change in politics that britain needs, like what happened in america

mantraa:

I'll be voting for the lib dems for their policies which include;

Closing millionare fat cats tax loopholes which are losing the country billions in revenue,
2 million pound mansion tax,
limiting bankers bonuses to £2500 and separating investment banks from high street banks .
Raising the amount you can earn before paying any income tax to £10000.
(People earning less than £100000 will be on average £750 better off annually.)
Cutting back on the amount of trident nuclear missiles we have, saving the country more billions in spending.
Plus they were the only main party who saw through the lies of tony blair and george bush and were against the invasion of iraq.

And they have put all the figures and calculations in their manifesto to be examined, which none of the other parties have done.

I hope they win and bring about the real change in politics that britain needs, like what happened in america

Very well said. I have always voted Labour. I am seriously considering Lib derms myself. Lets wait for the next 2 debates anyway.

@ Debosky

I can see you have dissected, chewed and metabolised my post. I better call a truce before i get banned

@ snowdrops

ban?

Nah, nothing to worry about - you can also chew, masticate and multisect my posts too without any fear. Healthy debate is highly encouraged!

@Elrazur & OMO IBO

The Rupert Murdoch Press (The Sun, Sky News & The Times) are trying to undermine Nick Clegg, the Rupert Murdoch press are so desperate for David Cameron to win by all means, they remind me of the Republicans, they knw how to fight dirty. They are throwing the kitchen sink at him. Mr Clegg is virtually on all the front pages of the press, they want Labour out neither do they want a hung parliament, the Conservatives are desperados, I hope the British public are not buying into it. They have a coalition government in Germany and they have the best financial markets in Europe. It's shocking that the Rupert Murdoch Press (News Cor) weigh so much power in the British Media despite the fact tht he is not eligible to vote,

The Daily Telegraph have him on their page to, the same paper whose reporter apparently found documents linking George Galloway to oil in Iraq, it later turned out the documents were forged and the court asked them to pay a large sum to him. Fingers crossed for Mr Clegg tonight,

Thamesmead, the negative press and smeer campaign Nick Clegg is currently getting was always going to happen.
Unlike The Sun, I don't think Daily Telegraph is loyal to any of the parties. In my opinion they are out to sell news paper. . . . . I stand corrected though.
I expect more smeer from the other parties and their buds.

Nick Clegg must continue doing whatever he has been doing.
He better expect the spotlight to be on him tonight. . . . .no thanks to the previous debate and the positive outcome.

OMO IBO:

Thamesmead, the negative press and smeer campaign Nick Clegg is currently getting was always going to happen.
Unlike The Sun, I don't think Daily Telegraph is loyal to any of the parties. In my opinion they are out to sell news paper. . . . . I stand corrected though.
I expect more smeer from the other parties and their buds.

Nick Clegg must continue doing whatever he has been doing.
He better expect the spotlight to be on him tonight. . . . .no thanks to the previous debate and the positive outcome.

Only after the first leaders debate. Before then Nick was seen as someone there to make up numbers.
Todays headlines in the conservative papers only shows the tories are as nasty as ever.

thameamead:


@Elrazur & OMO IBO

The Rupert Murdoch Press (The Sun, Sky News & The Times) are trying to undermine Nick Clegg, the Rupert Murdoch press are so desperate for David Cameron to win by all means, they remind me of the Republicans, they knw how to fight dirty. They are throwing the kitchen sink at him. Mr Clegg is virtually on all the front pages of the press, they want Labour out neither do they want a hung parliament, the Conservatives are desperados, I hope the British public are not buying into it. They have a coalition government in Germany and they have the best financial markets in Europe. It's shocking that the Rupert Murdoch Press (News Cor) weigh so much power in the British Media despite the fact tht he is not eligible to vote,

The Daily Telegraph have him on their page to, the same paper whose reporter apparently found documents linking George Galloway to oil in Iraq, it later turned out the documents were forged and the court asked them to pay a large sum to him. Fingers crossed for Mr Clegg tonight,

Politics is a dirty game.

From the reports, it suggest the conservatives are apparently behind the smear campaign. Having said that, it appears Nick have managed to clear his name by printing the bank details to show money in and money out etc. It will be interesting to see how the debate will go.


OMO IBO
Those folks will print anything to sell newspapers. Remember, internet have taken a high chunk of their readers so I am not really surprised. As it stand, Lib Dem have my vote. I pray the other two wobble tonight.

By the way, did you hear the joke [or could it be true] that the wife of Dave is already planning their move to 10 Downing street? Lol.

ElRazur:



By the way, did you hear the joke [or could it be true] that the wife of Dave is already planning their move to 10 Downing street? Lol.

There maybe some truth behind it.

I hope Nick wipes their asses tonight.

snowdrops:

There maybe some truth behind it.

I wont rule it out. Power is attracting.



So far, I am not sure Gordon Brown speech is captivating, the same old story of how he will build economy and how he is the man. Dave's a bit predictable too, but Nick is coming in from a different and refreshing angle, I am not sure if that will win people over. Over all, everyone of them look more composed than last time.

David cameron speaks like someone reading from a script. I sense Rupert Murdochs Sky news have coached him before hand on the questions that will be asked in the programme.

I think they all signed an agreement where no one is treated over the other etc, including the use of visual tricks in the studios i.e focusing too much on one person than other etc.

Is it me or Gordon is just saying the same thing over and over again - Economy and Jobs.

I think there is a point on the Referendum issue. People should be given the choice IMO to decide if they want us in there or not.

For me Nick is so far leading on the debate followed by GB then david cameron.

Gordon Brown just made a gaffe. He said Mutallab is from Somalia. He don miscram

snowdrops:

David cameron speaks like someone reading from a script. I sense Rupert Murdochs Sky news have coached him before hand on the questions that will be asked in the programme.

never say never, This election is getting dirty, the Murduch Empire are fighting dirty, they are bullies.

snowdrops:

There maybe some truth behind it.

apparently

snowdrops:

Only after the first leaders debate. Before then Nick was seen as someone there to make up numbers.
Todays headlines in the conservative papers only shows the tories are as nasty as ever.

Nick was seen as a political joke but now him and his party are neck on neck with Mr Cameron in the polls. The debate has done wonders for the Liberal Democrats, Long May It Continue,

snowdrops:

Gordon Brown just made a gaffe. He said Mutallab is from Somalia. He don miscram

nah GB said he got his instructions from somalia.

jay bee:

nah GB said he got his instructions from somalia.

I may be wrong i think i clearly heard him say he came from somalia.

It should be on bbc i player or sky player. I would recheck that.

thameamead:

never say never, This election is getting dirty, the Murduch Empire are fighting dirty, they are bullies.

The debate should have never been hosted by sky news. It should have gone to channel 4. They would have been more balanced and the viewer rating more than the 4.4 million we got yesterday with a combined sky news, bbc news and sky 3 coverage.

John Snow would have made a better host than the fat Adam Bolton. Imagine the cheeky question he put to Clegg after deliberately clearing his throat. Asking if he saw the telegraphs attacks on him. Hosts are supposed to be impartial, which is amongst the 73 rules governing the debate.The Lib Derms should put in a complaint.

i see the media tryna kill nick clegg

hehehehehehe dirty politics

That's what it takes to be a PM - so Clegg better get ready for worse.

Now whether the polls translate into votes on election day is another thing altogether.

Right now everyone is a bit worried, but I personally don't think things have changed that much - the main problem is that the UK remains firmly parliamentarian. The key decisions will be made in local elections so if in my area I prefer the conservative candidate but like Nick Clegg, it doesn't mean I won't vote for the local guy who is making the right impact on my life.

If it were in a presidential system like the US, you could vote the local guy you liked from one party and vote someone else in for the presidency. Since that won't happen here, I think it's a bit hasty to expect so much from Clegg's overall poll ratings. The key is to look at how he is polling in the 'swing' constituencies.

I watched the last debate and poor Cameron! He looked like a battered cat most of the show. I can safely predict that he will not be the UK's next PM, its going to be a Gordon or Nick show (except both get stupid).

snowdrops:

I may be wrong i think i clearly heard him say he came from somalia.

It should be on bbc i player or sky player. I would recheck that.

I heard that too and was shocked, but British folk couldn't care less, so its no big deal.