@ Noetic

The way atheists run around introducing anything to support their delusion is just not fascinating. The obvious questions are
1. how does the complexity of the solar system nor require the need for a creator?
2. does the composition of the universe not attest to the existence of a super-intelligent creator?
3. the human DNA composition in its uniqueness, does it not attest to a superior design/designer?
4. can life as we see it today come from a dead matter? when did this matter live?
5. why is there no intelligent theory to substitute the genesis account of creation?

This god of the gaps argument is tiring. . .We don't know how the sun came about then god must have done it. . . . . . .The problem is that the bible and other religious text are there for all to read. . .read the bible and tell me if the god that is being talked about there knows anything about the position of the sun in the cosmos . . .Does the bible god know anything about the DNA? . . . A god that considers natural biological processes like menstruation offensive can NEVER know anything about DNA. . . Will you hurry up and show that your god created the sun? Any video or picture of your god putting the sun together? Beating or pointing to age long myths of men who thought and believe the sun revolves round the earth is really a pathetic case. . . .Any video showing that you god created life?

the above tends to paint believers as bunch of ignorant dudes who are so lazy that they had rather post God as the answer of all intellectually challenging posers. this is FAR from the truth.

What else do you guys do beside using your god of the gaps argument all the time. . . .

There is an explanation for the universe. That explanation is called the creation story. It explains how the intelligent universe we reside in was made by a super-intelligent being. The rationality of the story is evidenced by the inability of science and doubters to present a more plausible explanation for the existence/beginning of life/universe.

Just Hear yourself . . .Creation story eh?. . . .Is it the creation story that has been shown to be plagiarized from other sources? The same creation story that your fellow christians keep saying its an allegory because of how ridiculous and how it was very poorly written? . . .How did you god create the asteroids, comets and black holes? How did your god create the 12 moons around the planet Jupiter and the galaxies?. . . .How did your god create earth?. . . .Where did he get the raw materials from?. . . .What language did your god use to speak the birds we see around into existence? . . . .I may not be able to prove the nonexistence of your undefined and untestable god but I can very clearly show that men created the concept and idea you call god. . .Even your gods have all evolved from ignorant savages and their superstitions. . . . .Events we see around and our ever incresing knowledge of the things around us keep disproving the existence of all your mythical and man made gods. . . .

No it is NOT. I think it is quite dumb to state that the universe came out of nothing. or to state that life began from dead micro-organisms. what u call the supernatural is an intelligent creator, whose account of creation is still the most plausible.

You don't know where the universe came from so Yahweh the tribal god that used to reside with the ancient Jews inside their box according to the stories they wrote down must have done it eh?. . . . . .Interesting. . . .

If u can produce a more plausible theory/concept for the origin of life/universe . . , .then I will question the rationality of my faith.

The problem is your faith is NOT based on any rationality but on total obedience to the concept, fantasies, wishful thoughts and belief of other men like you. . . .

There are loads of evidences. The issue is do u subscribe to this evidences/experiences?

Pls your evidence for you god creating the galaxy will do. . .Sorry the galaxy is a bit too big. . .Provide evidence to show that you god created the moon. . . .Evidence not words that ancient Jews wrote down. . . .Even the ancient Greeks also claim that their own gods created the moon. . .A video or a creation factory showing Yahweh creating the moon will be enough evidence. . .

Anthony Flew just accepted the evidences. . .what are waiting for.

Anthony Flew accepted that their might be a god that created the universe we know. . . .He himself was not stupid enough to conclude that the man made concept of god that people created and are worshiping created anything in the universe. ,

science has been trying to for over 1000 years. . . . , science will keep "trying". . . .and u will have to face the wrath of the God u denied in eternity.

Believe my stories or face the imaginary wrath I have been conditioned to believe in eh? How long with this lame scare tactics of yours continue. . .We are tired of this lame scare tactics already. . . .What you are saying is that people should accept your culture or suffer when they die. . .The fact that the punishment you guys are promising will allegedly take place after death is very telling. . . . . . .Science has done more for humanity than any god or religion will ever do for humanity. . . .

complex and uniqueness of DNA, intelligent design of the universe, the impossibility of dead organisms to give birth to life.
Bro, there are more than enough premises. . . . , the problem is that u have a closed and dogmatic mind.

And where is DNA mentioned in any books that the gods allegedly wrote or inspired people to write? who were those that found out about the existence of the DNA? Does any author of the bible know anything about the DNA?. . .How did your god create the DNA?. . . .DNA, human beings, mountains etc are all evidence for nature and the environment. . .They are NOT evidence for any imaginary god. . . .

God is not bound by your wishes. God has expressed His liberty and has chosen to communicate with u, using the bible. The onus is on u to either believe it or disbelieve it.

More drivel. . . .Men wrote the bible, Men decided to ascribe what ever they wrote to what ever concept of god that they choose or saw will best fit their wishes. . .I repeat again no god ever said poo in the bible. It's just 2nd. 3rd and 4th-hand reporting if you leave in the supernatural beings from yahweh to the prophets to those who wrote it down and collected it (the editors). . . . .Take away the supernatural and you're left with the editors, either lying or deluded about the things they wrote.

I take away the supernatural because I see no evidence of its existence. Humans said what's in the bible and all other religious text, for their own reasons. "God said" means nothing other than "I want you to believe" and until you or anybody produce a god to speak for itself, I'm not interested in "God said in the bible". Its just some crazy delusion I tell you. . .

Believing there's God is a small thing, but it can be taken further by asking: "Do believe that Jesus was sent to redeem mankind from eternal death"? or put another way: "Do you believe that God sent His Son Jesus to save humanity, & that to be set free all you have to do is to accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour?

Jesus is the ONLY Way; no one can come to God except through Jesus(Jn.14:6), thats just it!!! Whether you believe it or not. I pray that Atheists come to know God through Jesus, as well as come to the knowledge of His Word.

END of MATTER!!

ikhideman:

Believing there's God is a small thing, but it can be taken further by asking: "Do believe that Jesus was sent to redeem mankind from eternal death"? or put another way: "Do you believe that God sent His Son Jesus to save humanity, & that to be set free all you have to do is to accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour?

Jesus is the ONLY Way; no one can come to God except through Jesus(Jn.14:6), thats just it!!! Whether you believe it or not. I pray that Atheists come to know God through Jesus, as well as come to the knowledge of His Word.

END of MATTER!!

Why do your God have to send his begotten son to save humanity? and why was humanity under the threat of eternal damnation? damnation or salvation from what, is it from Satan or God.

An atheist does not want to come to any God, Jehovah, Yahweh, Shiva, Allah or Jupiter, before you can talk about the need to go through his son, daughter, wife or priest.

ha we all knew atheists are simply ignorant folks . . . nothing new.

davidylan:

ha we all knew atheists are simply ignorant folks . . . nothing new.

Just as we all know that theist are deluded folks. . .Nothing new there. . . .

mazaje:

Just as we all know that theist are deluded folks. . .Nothing new there. . . .

you're talking to theists . . . i dont know where they are.

What is the difference between an atheist and Richard Dawkins?
Dawkins constructs the delusions, and the atheist lives in them.

mazaje:

Just as we all know that theist are deluded folks. . .Nothing new there. . . .

toba:

What is the difference between an atheist and Richard Dawkins?
Dawkins constructs the delusions, and the atheist lives in them.

Fantastic!

To atheists, God does not exist.
To God, atheists do not exist.
To Richard Dawkins, atheists exist to buy his book.

davidylan:

Fantastic!

toba:

What is the difference between an atheist and Richard Dawkins?
Dawkins constructs the delusions, and the atheist lives in them.

Lame. . . who is Richard Dawkins?. . .Millions of atheist do not even know that name. . . What's the difference between theist and unknown lairs and myth makers?

Unknown lairs and myth makers write their myths, lies , fantasies and DELUSIONS and theist live in them. . . .

toba:

To Richard Dawkins, atheists exist to buy his book.

And to penterascal pastors, christians exist to buy them private jets.

mazaje:

Lame. . .  who is Richard Dawkins?. . .Millions of atheist do not even know that name. . . What's the difference between theist and unknown lairs and myth makers?

Unknown lairs and myth makers write their myths, lies , fantasies and DELUSIONS and theist live in them. . . .

Pity for the minory atheists millions that doesnt know Dawkins.Dawkins wrote books on evolution&God delusion.Atheists that doesnt know Dawkins yet believed in his theory of Gods non existence through his books are deluded. Was dawkins&other proponents of evolution theories present when the big bang occured? Why then believe their stories.

This thread has become so so sad!. "Fundagelical christians" and atheists are, in some ways, no better than (or even different from) one another.

BTW whats the meaning of

jagunlabi:

And to penterascal pastors, christians exist to buy them private jets.

'penterascal' i couldnt find it in my dico/wikipedia

noetic15:

lolz. . . . .I do enjoy debating with atheists cos unlike "others". . . . .they {atheists} can defend and analyse their beliefs. No matter how positive a belief is, once it cannot be analysed or criticised then its ignorance IMO . . . . . . .NL atheists are an intelligent bunch. . .good to know u are one of them.

@ Post

The mods I know on this forum are anything but efficient . . . . . words cannot describe my disgust.

You said it yourself here that athiests are intelligent and your now denying it in the second post. Hypocrite.

Enigma:

This thread has become so so sad!. "Fundagelical christians" and atheists are, in some ways, no better than (or even different from) one another.   

Fellow FTA-rian what do u by the above?

U should lead by example&not by calling people names. Dont allow ur emotions to take the better side of u

manmustwac:

You said it yourself here that athiests are intelligent and your now denying it in the second post. Hypocrite.

To me,its more hypocritical to deny the obvious that God exist.

@ toba

Firstly, I personally think it is pointless to debate whether God exists or not. Secondly, exchanging abuse with atheists is not going to convert them to God. Thirdly, and I think this is most important, it is vey very very unwise for a "Christian" to be so presumptuous to say that anyone is going or has gone to "hell". On this thread, Christians would have shown that they follow Christ's teaching on love if they could at least pay respect to Flew who just died and, critically, refrain from speculating on his eternal destiny ---- let alone pronouncing that he has gone to eternal damnation.

toba:

To me,its more hypocritical to deny the obvious that God exist.

I know that it is obvious that we will all agree that the sun, sky, stars and moon exists but as for God its not obvious that He exists and you yourself know that it can't proved that He exists.

manmustwac:

I know that it is obvious that we will all agree that the sun, sky, stars and moon exists but as for God its not obvious that He exists and you yourself know that it can't proved that He exists.

if God doesnt exist,kindly show me a prove of Gods non existence.

mazaje:

The problem is that you are just revealing what your god or belief is. . .Your god and you religion are both fear. . You can twist and say what ever you want but the FACT is you worship nothing but fear. . .The imaginary god that you will love to see punish those that do not accept your myths does NOT exist. . .all that exist are your twisted, bizarre and ridiculous imaginations and wishful thoughts. . . .Anthony flew is dead and gone and there is NO damnation waiting for him any where because he disbelieves in the obvious LIES and MYTHS of ancient people he does not even know. . ,

blah blah blah and the tale continues.

1. the issue of my God is not a case of fear but a case of justice. should God allow the wicked to have peace? should God give a blissful eternity to the unrepentant? You would castigate a high court judge who refuses to establish justice to the criminal behind a brutal murder, in the face of overwhelming evidence. You would call for his head and call him all sorts of names. . . , but why is it difficult to place God's purpose of hell in the same context.
Your claims about God/xtians using fear as a factor is both LAME and ridiculous.

2. We have debated this issue a billion times now. The God-experience CANNOT be described as imaginations and wishful thinking. This is because you cannot on any grounds deny the billions of miracles experienced by billions of xtians all over the world from a loving God. you cannot deny or impugn my God-experience.

3. what are the lies and myths? did noah's flood not happen? what explanation do u have for the rootless polystrate fossils?
what is your plausible theory that explains the origin of life?. . . . or the origin of the universe?

The existence of a creator is possible because we know very little about the universe. .

are u also attempting to DUMP your ignorance? 

The evidence is overwhelming . .  , if u objectively analyse the evidences, u would realise that my great-great-great-great-greater-grand-mother was right that THERE IS A CREATOR . . . , His name is JESUS.

.The universe is NOT created by any of the man made gods people worship. . . .What has the tribal god that WAS created by the ancient Jews according to the culture and tradition got to do with the universe, A god that CLEARLY show that he does not even know anything about the universe we live in. . .Any number of natural causes could be postulated.  Collisions of other universes, black holes creating new universes, there could be hundreds of reasons.  And if there are other universes, what if those universes were caused by interactions of universes that existed prior to them.  Where does the concept of an all loving, all powerful God that cares ONLY for the tiny group of people on a small planet of a small solar system, in the outer edges of a small galaxy in the middle of hundreds of billions of galaxies, and possibly in the middle of hundreds and billions of universes?  To think that there is a God that created all that for just us?  I don't know how someone can maintain that viewpoint.  It's just idiocy.

Mazaje there are a billion idols out there worshipped as gods. . . .should that not tell u that there is an original somewhere there?

Your mind is acting as if it KNOWS our visible universe is all that exists.  This is just foolish.  If a man was born and raised on a deserted island, never having seen another person, would he be right in assuming he was the only person on the entire planet?  While a closed mind may say yes, an open mind would entertain the possibility that they were not the only one.  This is exactly what your mind is doing.  It is closed to the possibilities that ours is not the only universe, simply because that seriously fits badly with your preconceived notion about our own universe.

I have no idea where u got your crazy theory from. What I do know is that the very complex nature of our universe establishes the case of a super-intelligent creator.

You are the one with a closed mind here . . , mazaje give me 5 intellectually powered reasons why God does not exist?

mazaje:

@ Noetic

This god of the gaps argument is tiring. . .We don't know how the sun came about then god must have done it. . . . . . .The problem is that the bible and other religious text are there for all to read. . .read the bible and tell me if the god that is being talked about there knows anything about the position of the sun in the cosmos . . .Does the bible god know anything about the DNA? . . . A god that considers natural biological processes like menstruation offensive can NEVER know anything about DNA. . . Will you hurry up and show that your god created the sun? Any video or picture of your god putting the sun together? Beating or pointing to age long myths of men who thought and believe the sun revolves round the earth is really a pathetic case. . . .Any video showing that you god created life?

This is rather unbecoming of u . . . .when did u start evading questions like huxley and DS?  u refused to answer any of my questions . . .fine.

1. The sun could not have come into existence by accident . . . .its quite obvious. The major fact that the sun is the principal element of the solar system and also considering its very unique attributes in relation to all other components of the universe makes IMO the case of a specialist, strategically putting the sun in its position to ensure a balanced universe.
I just cannot imagine the sun originating out of nothing. ,  oh please tell me, did the sun come out of nothing of from dead organic materials? 

2. FYI the bible was not written to serve as a scientific blue-print for your dogmatic hypothesis, theories, criticism and disbelieve. neither was it written for historical purposes . ,   , but was written to the saints to strengthen the saints in faith. In lieu of this I propose that we subsequently leave the bible out of this debate.

3.  I have no video showing God creating life. but this fact is IMO very very obvious . . . .if u could offer honest answers to my posers, perhaps u might objectively see reason like Anthony did.

What else do you guys do beside using your god of the gaps argument all the time. . . .

Perhaps the day u can provide scientifically plausible answers to fill the gap. . . . .our argument would be invalidated.

Just Hear yourself  . . .Creation story eh?. . . .Is it the creation story that has been shown to be plagiarized from other sources? The same creation story that your fellow christians keep saying its an allegory because of how ridiculous and how it was very poorly written? . . .How did you god create the asteroids, comets and black holes? How did your god create the 12 moons around the planet Jupiter and the galaxies?. . . .How did your god create earth?. . . .Where did he get the raw materials from?. . . .What language did your god use to speak the birds we see around into existence? . . . .I may not be able to prove the nonexistence of your undefined and untestable god but I can very clearly show that men created the concept and idea you call god. . .Even your gods have all evolved from ignorant savages and their superstitions. . . . .Events we see around  and our ever incresing knowledge of the things around us keep disproving the existence of all your mythical and man made gods. . . .

Lets be objective here . . . that u dont believe the creation accounts does NOT discredit it or make it a false case.
what is your plausible explanation to the origin of life and the origin of this universe?

You don't know where the universe came from so Yahweh the tribal god that used to reside with the ancient Jews inside their box according to the stories they wrote down must have done it eh?. . . . . .Interesting. . . .

The problem is your faith is NOT based on any rationality but on total obedience to the concept, fantasies, wishful thoughts and belief of other men like you. . . .

Pls your evidence for you god creating the galaxy will do. . .Sorry the galaxy is a bit too big. . .Provide evidence to show that you god created the moon. . . .Evidence not words that ancient Jews wrote down. . . .Even the ancient Greeks also claim that their own gods created the moon. . .A video or a creation factory  showing Yahweh creating the moon will be enough evidence. . . 

Anthony Flew accepted that their might be a god that created the universe we know. . . .He himself was not silly enough to conclude that the man made concept of god that people created and are worshiping created anything in the universe. , 


Believe my stories or face the imaginary wrath I have been conditioned to believe in eh? How long with this lame scare tactics of yours continue. . .We are tired of this lame scare tactics already. . . .What you are saying is that people should accept your culture or suffer when they die. . .The fact that the punishment you guys are promising will allegedly take place after death is very telling. . . . . . .Science has done more for humanity than any god or religion will ever do for humanity. . . .

And where is DNA mentioned in any books that the gods allegedly wrote or inspired people to write? who were those that found out about the existence of the DNA? Does any author of the bible know anything about the DNA?. . .How did your god create the DNA?. . . .DNA, human beings, mountains etc are all evidence for nature and the environment. . .They are NOT evidence for any imaginary god. . . .

More drivel. . . .Men wrote the bible, Men decided to ascribe what ever they wrote to what ever concept of god that they choose or saw will best fit their wishes. . .I repeat again no god ever said poo in the bible. It's just 2nd. 3rd and 4th-hand reporting if you leave in the supernatural beings from yahweh to the prophets to those who wrote it down and collected it (the editors). . . . .Take away the supernatural and you're left with the editors, either lying or deluded about the things they wrote.

I take away the supernatural because I see no evidence of its existence. Humans said what's in the bible and all other religious text, for their own reasons. "God said" means nothing other than "I want you to believe" and until you or anybody produce a god to speak for itself, I'm not interested in "God said in the bible". Its just some crazy delusion I tell you. . .

unfortunately, atheists have no proof for the ignorantly proclaimed non-existence of God . . .except for bible-bashing heroics.

@ Mazaje -

I have often put the question to you and you have persistently skillfully evaded it.

In all your submissions you constantly refer to "the gods of man made religions" - and you declare such to be myths.

In fact I have always noted that you are CONSTANTLY VERY CAREFUL never to simply state - "God does not exist" - but rather - you always state that "the gods of man made religions do not exist."

I think that is worthy of note. I firmly agree with you on that.

However your careful qualification suggests that you believe that there is actually a real GOD, a real and trancendental creator whom mankind may know nothing about. As opposed to "the gods of man made religions."

Please answer honestly for me.

And please I already know about the "gods of man made religions" so no need to repeat that to me.

Just tell me if you think that outside mankind's perceptions and religious fantasies, could there be, or is there likely to be an unknown supreme creator?"

Thanks.

1. The sun could not have come into existence by accident . . . .its quite obvious. The major fact that the sun is the principal element of the solar system and also considering its very unique attributes in relation to all other components of the universe makes IMO the case of a specialist, strategically putting the sun in its position to ensure a balanced universe.
I just cannot imagine the sun originating out of nothing. ,  oh please tell me, did the sun come out of nothing of from dead organic materials?  Grin

2. FYI the bible was not written to serve as a scientific blue-print for your dogmatic hypothesis, theories, criticism and disbelieve. neither was it written for historical purposes . ,   , but was written to the saints to strengthen the saints in faith. In lieu of this I propose that we subsequently leave the bible out of this debate.

3.  Grin Grin I have no video showing God creating life. but this fact is IMO very very obvious . . . .if u could offer honest answers to my posers, perhaps u might objectively see reason like Anthony did.

its absurd to claim what you cannot prove, an entity you can neither see, touch or perceive, or communicate with. the foundation is the shaky bible with discredited history and doctrines, and conflicts with scientific facts. a dogma induced by indoctrination. our existence has always puzzled and fascinated us. and all religions produce answers. all at several points conflict and contradict each others accounts. thus whats the yardstick? dogma or reason.
we should not be deceived that we live in an orderly and regulated world. even in chaos, order is perceived. the beauty and complexity of our world would only be understood by comparison, which is strictly subjective. the galaxy is so large and tainted with imperfections, half baked planets and rocks and all. also evolution, the extinctions: all trial and error. there wouldn't have been the need for it. the besides, i think the simpler it is, the more the indication of an almighty, because for it to be very complex, it is then building upon some constant fundamental rules.
finally, this almighty guy self. following the rule that all things have a creator, who created this god? who endowed god with consciousness? i think it is self evidential.

Kay 17:

its absurd to claim what you cannot prove, an entity you can neither see, touch or perceive, or communicate with. the foundation is the shaky bible with discredited history and doctrines, and conflicts with scientific facts. a dogma induced by indoctrination. our existence has always puzzled and fascinated us. and all religions produce answers. all at several points conflict and contradict each others accounts. thus whats the yardstick? dogma or reason.

This is rather RIDICULOUS. have u been reading/following this thread at all? 

This thread does not intend to illustrate the religious notions of God. . . . .but the prevalent scientific premises that do support/suggest the need for a creator. I am sick of hearing half-baked, unintelligent and delusively ignorant atheist making the same ridiculous claims about an invisible religious God.

did life start from an unknown dead organism? did the universe appear from nothing? whats your explanation for the complex nature of the DNA? . . . . these are the questions you are supposed to rationalize and not some out-dated bible bashing notions.

we should not be deceived that we live in an orderly and regulated world. even in chaos, order is perceived. the beauty and complexity of our world would only be understood by comparison, which is strictly subjective. the galaxy is so large and tainted with imperfections, half baked planets and rocks and all.

1. what are u comparing our world with? how did u come to the conclusion that the universe is imperfect?

2. what are the imperfections that taint out galaxy?  and why did they not emerge as perfect like other components of the galaxy?

also evolution, the extinctions: all trial and error. there wouldn't have been the need for it. the besides, i think the simpler it is, the more the indication of an almighty, because for it to be very complex, it is then building upon some constant fundamental rules.

dude are u confused? 

how did life on its own spring out? what are the pioneer elements that kick-started life?

finally, this almighty guy self. following the rule that all things have a creator, who created this god? who endowed god with consciousness? i think it is self evidential.

did God have to be created? This is illiteracy in disguise.

where is mazaje and wirinet?

What else do you want me to say?

You mind is still locked in the pre-historic age, which attributes any unexplainable phenomenon to a God. In that world view;

Thunder and lightening are attributed to the anger of a God, same with earthquake.

Rainbow is caused by God remembering them of the promise he made with his people.

Flooding caused but rising ocean levels is caused by God of the sea.

Active volcanoes belching gases is sign of Gods anger or Gods mode of communication.

The Sun itself is a God, while the moons and planets were lesser Gods.

Solar eclipse is caused by disagreements between the Sun and Moon Gods.


Disasters, deceases and misfortunes were also attributed to Gods or sometimes anti-Gods, depending on the mood of the people.


Here in the 21st century, the practice has not changed. It is just that the theists wait for any new discovery and accommodate it into their theology.

Science discovers the Atom and theist shout, O god is wonderful for creating Atoms

Science discovers Galaxies, quasars and blackholes, they shout God is mighty for creating them.

Science spends decades decoding the DNA, the scream, o God is wonderful for creating such a thing as the DNA.

Science uncovers the true age of the earth, they shout, our god already told us, that a day is equal to 1000 years.


Mr Noetic, I have said it again and again, that it is impossible for you mind to grasp the science behind natural phenomena, so it is safe for you to just keep to your basic primitive explanations of God Did It.

where does one begin to explain to you, the imperfections in the structure of the universe, or the chemistry involved with the beginning  of life, or  the formation of Stars, solar systems and galaxies?  Can one even  begin to explain to you the biological  meaning of life? before one can attempt to explain its pioneering constituents.
Do not worry, you do not need to crack you head to explain why a rainbow forms, you already have an explanation that is suitable for your mind.

If some things are not beyond science&mans imagination,then the complexity of DNA could have been explanable.

wirinet:

What else do you want me to say?

You mind is still locked in the pre-historic age, which attributes any unexplainable phenomenon to a God. In that world view;

your post is the funniest I have read this year.

Thunder and lightening are attributed to the anger of a God, same with earthquake.

Rainbow is caused by God remembering them of the promise he made with his people.

Flooding caused but rising ocean levels is caused by God of the sea.

Active volcanoes belching gases is sign of Gods anger or Gods mode of communication.

The Sun itself is a God, while the moons and planets were lesser Gods.

Solar eclipse is caused by disagreements between the Sun and Moon Gods.


Disasters, deceases and misfortunes were also attributed to Gods or sometimes anti-Gods, depending on the mood of the people.

But I thought we agreed to look at the evidences and see if they support a creator. . . .and not to analyse the various concept of God/god? , , . . .why are u back-tracking on that?

Here in the 21st century, the practice has not changed. It is just that the theists wait for any new discovery and accommodate it into their theology.

Science discovers the Atom and theist shout, O god is wonderful for creating Atoms

how did atomes come into existence?

Science discovers Galaxies, quasars and blackholes, they shout God is mighty for creating them.

Does this galaxies not appear too structured to have been formed/emerged out of nothing?

Science spends decades decoding the DNA, the scream, o God is wonderful for creating such a thing as the DNA.

Science uncovers the true age of the earth, they shout, our god already told us, that a day is equal to 1000 years.

is science now at odds with the God-concept?

Mr Noetic, I have said it again and again, that it is impossible for you mind to grasp the science behind natural phenomena, so it is safe for you to just keep to your basic primitive explanations of God Did It.

where does one begin to explain to you, the imperfections in the structure of the universe, or the chemistry involved with the beginning  of life, or  the formation of Stars, solar systems and galaxies?  Can one even  begin to explain to you the biological  meaning of life? before one can attempt to explain its pioneering constituents.
Do not worry, you do not need to crack you head to explain why a rainbow forms, you already have an explanation that is suitable for your mind.

Mr wirinet . . . .I would love to be educated on the subjects mentioned above and why they explain that there is no God . . . .u never might know, I might convert to atheism

noetic16:

your post is the funniest I have read this year.

But I thought we agreed to look at the evidences and see if they support a creator. . . .and not to analyse the various concept of God/god? , , . . .why are u back-tracking on that?

how did atomes come into existence?

Does this galaxies not appear too structured to have been formed/emerged out of nothing?

is science now at odds with the God-concept?

Mr wirinet . . . .I would love to be educated on the subjects mentioned above and why they explain that there is no God . . . .u never might know, I might convert to atheism

What evidences? Are all your so called evidences not all unexplainable (according to you) natural Phenomenon? It was the same way pre-historic man explained the natural phenomena that was unexplainable to him then.


All the concepts of gods were all designed to help its designers explain unexplainable phenomena, the only differences is in the methods employed to get others to submit to their particular god and its representatives.

If you have read basic astronomy, you will know that galaxies are anything but perfect structures, some galaxies are deformed, some are partly formed, others are just plain unstructured. Besides the shape of galaxies are determined by the effect of mass, gravity, angular momentum of the initial gas cloud, etc.

Yes science is at odds with Religion. Science attempts to explain the workings of the observable universe without the introduction of extraneous forces like God, while according to religion, God is all the explanation for all phenomena in the observable and unobservable universe.

If you really want to be educated on the structures of Galaxies, the meaning of Biological life and the chemistry of life. you would need to invest in books of Astronomy, Biology and Molecular Biology and physics. It is not something one can start explaining in a few pages.

Finally, i am not interested in converting you to atheism. Everybody is a lone passenger on this planet, you come alone, learn to survive while interacting with a limited number of people, make your contribution and leave alone. So what you or any any other person believes is not essential to my survival and so not my business, except you use your beliefs as an excuse to persecute me, in which case i am obliged to fight back.

I would not even advise you to convert to Atheism, from my experience people do not convert to atheism like is done with other religions. You gradually come to the realization that Gods are not needed to make the universe go round, you gradually realize that yourself, your neighbour, your surroundings and your universe is the most important thing, and you try to live in harmony with them.

Since your religion give you joy and happiness and a purpose in life, you should grow in it. After all your happiness should be the most important thing in your life.

The only conversion i need from you is to understand that according to religions and beliefs, there are different sizes, colours, shapes and styles. There is no one size fits all. What suits you might have disasterous consequences on me and vice versa. So you should learn to be more tolerant of others completely different from you in all ramifications.

toba:

If some things are not beyond science&mans imagination,then the complexity of DNA could have been explanable.

Although science had never claimed that it would ever have all the answers to the universe, they have been able to decode the DNA and explain its complexity. The DNA can even be manipulated to produce certain traits in organisms. You now have genetically modified food.