Joagbaje:

The priest is anointed to bless. It is the people who are blessed.So you dont just give to a man of God to meet his need , You give to him because he is anointed and the anointing will cause you to have prophet's reward.

What are you saying here? That tithe remitted to the pastor or MOG should be seen as a ‘blue’ chip investment abi? After categorizing giving (to the poor and MOG) based on the rate of returns, I believe with time we will be hearing that ‘prosperity can only be gotten through the pastor or MOG’

Tithe was given to meet the needs of the Levites and the Priests and not for the anointing/prophetic reward. The bible did not instruct Christians to tithe for prophetic reward.

Joagbaje:

Numbers 18:8
And the Lord spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them[b] by reason of the anointing[/b], and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever.

Acts 20:35
I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

And the quote above is to support prophetic reward abi? The pastors are the weak abi?

Not Giving, but Sowing

"But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully, shall reap also bountifully" (II Corinthians 9:6).

As John Calvin pointed out long ago in expounding this key passage, "We are not giving, but sowing" when we contribute of our financial means to the work of the Lord, for it miraculously is considered by the Lord of the harvest as seed sown in the soil of the hearts of men.

And it is a rule of the harvest that, other things being equal, the more seed planted, the more harvested.  He who is deficient with his seed must necessarily anticipate a meager crop.

Of course, a bountiful harvest presupposes not only an abundance of seed, but also good soil, properly prepared, watered, and cultivated.  It is no good simply to give money to any one or any cause, any more than it is good simply to throw seed on a rocky slope or city street or weed-infested yard.  One is responsible to give where God’s word is honoured not just to give, but to give responsibly.

Furthermore, even though an abundant harvest is promised, the motive in giving is also vital.  The harvest is souls—not gold! "God loveth a cheerful giver"—[/i]not a conditional giver (v.7).  [i]"He that giveth, let him do it with simplicity" (Romans 12:.  Often God does bring financial blessing to a Christian who has proved faithful in the grace of giving, but this is so he can give still more and thus lay up still more treasure in heaven.  "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required" (Luke 12:48).  "Therefore," as Paul said, ". . . see that ye abound in this grace also" (II Corinthians 8:7).

And as we give, we must never forget that Christ has given more: "For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor" (II Corinthians 8:9). HMM

Joagbaje:

Jesus should have stopped that old widow. She should rather have been helped and given to. isnt it? But no, a poor man must learn to give, thats what will change his story arround.

Yes, the poor man must learn to give, but when it comes to giving to a neighbor (including the pastor) they should only give to meet the need of those that lack. What about you Jo? You claim to be super rich, like the poor widow do you contribute all you have (your whole livelihood)? Or do you contribute out of surplus cash.

And yes, Christ also told the apostles that they will always have the poor among them. That means if the poor sells all they have and remit to the rich not all of them will be rich. Because Joagbaje and other pastors like chris oyaks will not always be with us, they are entitled to milk the poor abi. So sad  

Oh, I forgot they are gods, and therefore entitled to think/talk like one  

^^ NOT GIVING BUT SOWING??   Olaadegbu: so its business for you, abi?

Anyway, the NL King of avarice is here to defend his treasure cove. Joagbaje, welcome!

It is sad you people have come to this - defending tithes and chris when people are calling Yahweh a liar and you walk by  . I can understand Joagbaje and T-Tithes but not Olaadegbu. I do not think you'll find a Christian who doesn't give pastors. But some do so out of love and not because we expect some "reward". God says He will have mercy on whom He will and it is strange that such as Olaadegbu would turn around to believing you can buy favor from God.

Some idiot would have us believe Bill Gates sold his soul to the Devil for money. Same with King Fahd. For your information, Fahd inherited his money and Bill Gates built something that is the basis for you being behind the keyboard you are reading this from. He followed God's commandment to subdue the earth whist you follow satan's directive to subdue MEN!

T-Tithes, you bring examples of the Messiah and compare to chris and company? Are you sane at all? You call your Lord a "great personality" because of your greed? "Great personalities" are people like Mohandas K. Gandhi, Winston Churchill and Dwight Eisenhower. Jesus is your LORD! But you now, because of gifts, reduce Him to a good man uplifting yourself to same status. No wahala, go about bowing for every "great personality" like chris oyaks and when he gets divorced or shows himself homosexual or deranged, we'll see what hole you'll crawl into.

If you like, give the poor and if not, give Bill Gates. Your cup of tea - but when Jesus says "I was hungry and you fed me not", please remember to tell Him "your giving was for pastors alone" and so He should get out of the way and open Heaven's door to your greedy self.

Tonye-t:

1. Abraham who was the first to have tithed before the law of moses came, did so to a priest. and guess what? That priest was noted to be a PRINCE of Jeru[i]salem[/i] and at least you and I know that princes lack nothing. So why then would someone(Abraham) give tithe to an already-sufficient pastor (Melchisedec)

Recalling some post you made somewhere(from the tithing thread), Abraham tithing takes it's origin from a pagan practice (was it to shamash ). Besides, God did not instruct Abraham to remit a tenth of war takings to Melchizedek, it was Abrahams choice and a one-time transaction as well.

Tonye-t:

2. When Jacob promised to give a tithe, did he promise giving it to a levite or God.

Again it was Jacob making the move. Not based on instruction from God. Like you rightly observed, no middle man man (pastor) involve in the transaction. So how did Jacob remit? considering the fact that there was no temple and no MOG.

Oga Tonye, i cant remember anybody attempting to stop you from tithing. Just don't coerce others into tithing by claiming it's a Christian requirement.

@Tonye-t:
A point by point rebuttal follows;

What is wrong in giving to a Man of God? I ask

Nothing.

What is wrong in giving Offerings, when it is given as a means of appreciation?

Nothing.

What is wrong in preaching prosperity?

Everything. To begin with, that is not the gospel. Secondly it encourages avarice and covetousness.

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Luke 12:15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

What if i pay my tithes to God thru' the church and still observe my obligations to giving to the poor and needy?

Before I address this, let me point out that you are up the usual trick of begin with true statements and then slipping in false statements so that undiscerning folks will be taken in. If some statements are true then it follows that the other statements are also true. But this is not so. Indeed it an old trick. For an example:

Gen 3:4-5 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die (a lie): For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. (truth)

Back to your statement. You can decide to pay your tithes---that's your affair. God's word is eternal. We are not justified by works.
Gal 2:16-18 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Tithes belong to the class: "works of the law". Thus you show that you have not truly believed in Jesus Christ by seeking to be justified by the works of the law (tithes).

. . .to be continued

^^^
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
If you Tonye-t seeks to be justified by the law, you are fallen from grace.

Malachi:
Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

Galatians:
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Where does Tonye-t place himself: Malachi or Galatians?

^^^ obviously malachi some mumus just love living under a curse whilst denying the saving grace of Jesus.

God does not curse us for not tithing, There is enough curse of darkness in the world. But a man that walks in truth is shielded from such. tithing is a form of God's financial security for us. The curse is a curse of sweat and waste. Men laboiur. But in Christ ,we have come into rest. The will of God does not come to pass automatically. There are steps of faith we must take ,to bring God's will to pass.

Many experience profit and losses. " the devourer" Accident, deaths, 419,fire outbreak. All manner of waste and losses. For The tither ,God rebukes such waste.

Malachi 3:11
And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

Your tithing is your honor for God as your source.You prove your love for God by doing his word. You cant say you are under grace and work against the principles of God.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

There different kinds of giving in Gods kingdom. Just to mention few.
1.Giving to God (in God's house)
2.Giving to the poor
3.Giving for Projects in Gods house
4. Giving to the man of God
5.Giving to your parents.

Which of these is lacking scriptural backing. Which of them do you have problem with.? So whats all these noise about.? This is a spiritual problem if I may say. And those who fight giving in God's house probably dont know the spirit behind it. For an example to the advocates for the poor masses , If their pastor should come up with a project to reach out to poor people as many churches do, they will still not give. They will call him thief. So their advocacy is not really about the poor but making excuse for their personal greed and covetousness to justify lack of financial commitment. So its not about the poor.

John 12:6
This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

The best way to help the poor is still by doing it through the church organised structure and outreaches.The early church sold their properties and still brought the money to the church for disbussment.

Acts 4:34-35
Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, [35] And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Pauls did thesame by mobilising the church to give for the specieal relief project every sunday service.If These NL attackers of the church were there , what would they do?

So when you now have people here attacking the church giving and the office of the pastor BY DISCREDITING EVERY PASTOR KNOWN . Here comes the golden question. WHO ARE THEY REALLY WORKING FOR?

Haha, my 'brethren' are already pulling off their shirts here. My sackcloth is not yet dirty. I'm loving the design and the government wants it on me for 7days so I'll play for peace.

Joagbaje:

There different kinds of giving in Gods kingdom. Just to mention few.
1.Giving to God (in God's house)

What do you mean by giving to God in God’s house? How do you give to God? Maybe you should explain. And why is it we can only give to God in his house? I wonder where that is    Are you saying God is not your home sir? Maybe that will explain some of the posts we get from you.

Joagbaje:

2.Giving to the poor

This is not giving to God abi?

Joagbaje:

3.Giving for Projects in Gods house
4. Giving to the man of God

What is the package like? Does it include Limo, private jet, luxury yacht and Mansions?

Joagbaje:

Which of these is lacking scriptural backing. Which of them do you have problem with.?

I do have problem with the rich pastors/MOGs that feels comfortable taking resources from those that lack for personal benefit. I have problem with the pastor that will be happy to see the poor members of the congregation starve while contributing their last penny to fund the purchase of a luxury ride or private jet for pastor’s use. I have problem with the pastor that manipulates the scriptures in an attempt to get the ignorant and gullible members of the congregation to part with their money.   

Joagbaje:

This is a spiritual problem if I may say. And those who fight giving in God's house probably dont know the spirit behind it. 

EDIT: Sure, its a spiritual problem (a good number of MOGs are under the spell of this spirit). and we know the spirit behind it. It's the spirit of greed and manipulation for filthy lucre. If you have been reading, it should have been obvious to you that nobody is against giving. Because of your greed you tend to misinterpret posts. Fraudulent manipulation for personal gain has always been the issue.

Joagbaje:

For an example to the advocates for the poor masses , If their pastor should come up with a project to reach out to poor people as many churches do, they will still not give.

You don’t know this. You speak from a position of ignorance.

Joagbaje:

If their pastor should come up with a project to reach out to poor people as many churches do, they will still not give. They will call him thief.

Your reputation precede you my friend 

Joagbaje:

The early church sold their properties and still brought the money to the church for disbussment.

Acts 4:34-35
Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, [35] And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Do you practice what you preach sir? BTW, the quote from Acts above said nobody lacked, can we say the same for CEC or even your branch.

Joagbaje:

Pauls did thesame by mobilising the church to give for the specieal relief project every sunday service.If These NL attackers of the church were there , what would they do?

They will gladly contribute.

Joagbaje:

Here comes the golden question. WHO ARE THEY REALLY WORKING FOR?

I guess that’s for you to find out.

Joagbaje:

The will of God does not come to pass automatically. There are steps of faith we must take ,to bring God's will to pass.

And rendering a tenth of our income to the pastor is one of the steps abi? So, you are saying without tithing, God’s will for an individual to attain financial prosperity will not be realized abi? What about wealthy non-tithers (secured financially)? Their wealthy status is not God’s will abi? Whose will then? And they are Christians.

Based on the joagbaje concept of tithing, is it right then for me to conclude that the rich & non-tithing Christians got their wealth from the devil? You know what that means.

Joagbaje:

You prove your love for God by doing his word. You cant say you are under grace and work against the principles of God.

Oga, you know that God did not command us to give a tenth of our income to the pastor. Why is it difficult for you to stand on the side of truth? How much will you lose from the process?

Tonye-t:

J-babe,

Yeah my projects are over, at least for now  .

And I hope you came through in brilliant, successful fashion?

my use of the word "hypocrite" aint intended to insult anyone but to stir a fact. (*^{apologies if it read the otherwise}).

 It's okay, apologies aren't necessary as no offense was taken .

Your use of the term "gospel" of the modern-day MOGs may mean that you do not go to modern churches as well as listen to their sermons. i guess you are coming from the ancient and prolly still need some time to settle in the present.

but whicheverway it goes, lets both realise that the latter church cannot and i repeat cannot be like the early church. one was intended to plant while the other waters. at least simple logic will tell us that those who build d foundation aint the same as those who'll put the finishings.

My point:

- giving remains a status even in the new testament, do yourself the favor of unsettling the notion that because the act of giving has been widely abuse now means it is evil to give or preach giving.

I don't want to get into the debate as others are already doing a great job of replying your points but I'll just reiterate that a few of the responders have already remarked several times that giving goes hand in hand with the word christian. And that is wonderful and should be encouraged. However, "giving" that occurs in response to trickery or coercion or manipulation is not giving - it is the solicitation, entrapment & blackmail of gullible and sometimes sincere people.

Image123:

Haha, my 'brethren' are already pulling off their shirts here.

I guess it will result to that, cos mr joagbaje will resist all attempt to take away his ‘chop-chop’

Zikkyy:

I guess it will result to that, cos mr joagbaje will resist all attempt to take away his ‘chop-chop’ 

Imagine that.  .  .   

Couldn't stop shaking my head while reading the comments of folks like Joagbaje, Tonye-t and olaadegbu on this thread. Its so sad.  .  .   

They're not even making the slightest attempt to even look at the scriptures and painstakingly explanations offered. 

. . .continued from here

Tonye-t:

- Why is the subject of tithing about the most controversial, when those who give come back with testimonies?

A false statement. Not all who live by the law of tithes are rich or will become rich.

Tonye-t:

- Why would i stop giving when the instruction is from GOd, just because some MOGs buy metal-birds, and live in flower-cabins?

A two-part statement: God instructs us to give and has specified who to give to.

Pro 19:17  Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will repay him for his deed.

Mat 25:40  And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'

MOGs buying metal-birds &c, are not following the example and command of Jesus Christ.

Tonye-t:

- Why is everyone who preaches giving tagged a thief?

Not everyone is a thief, but most of them are not straight.

Tonye-t:
- Is giving a crime?

No, but preaching tithing according to the law is evil.

Tonye-t:
- Is prosperity a crime, when it is added after one's righteousness?

If one is blessed by God with material possessions, it is not a crime. But. . .

. . .God said to him, 'Fool! This night your soul is required of you, and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?' So is the one who lays up treasure for himself and is not rich toward God."

Tonye-t:
- If Prosperity was such a crime, why then did the bible give stories of prosperous men, knowing all scriptures are given by God and profitable for learning

If not for your greed, you would have profited from learning from their examples of faith, without focusing on the material possessions of Abraham & Job, while conveniently forgetting these other examples of faith:

Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated-- of whom the world was not worthy--wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

Tonye-t:
- If prosperity was such a crime, why then did Jesus teach about giving, "give and it shall be given back to you, good measures. . . " ?

Luke 6:38; taken out of context. It says give. The question is to whom? Does it say tithes there?

Luke 6:30-38  Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back.  (31)  And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.  (32)  "If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them.  (33)  And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same.  (34)  And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount.  (35)  But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.  (36)  Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful.  (37)  "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;  (38)  give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you."

I guess the answer of whom to give to is clear? Certainly not rapacious and greedy wolves masquerading as MOGs.

Tonye-t:

- If prosperity was such a crime, why then did Paul teach us to give, "God loves a cheerful giver" ?

Another verse taken out of context: Referencing the collection being taken up for the poor church in Judea. See the preceding chapter:

2Co 8:1-4  We want you to know, brothers, about the grace of God that has been given among the churches of Macedonia,  (2)  for in a severe test of affliction, their abundance of joy and their extreme poverty have overflowed in a wealth of generosity on their part.  (3)  For they gave according to their means, as I can testify, and beyond their means, of their own accord,  (4)  begging us earnestly for the favor of taking part in the relief of the saints--

You may also want to consider; Rom 15:26, 2 Cor 9. So taken in context:
2Co 9:7  Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
You see this is an appeal for famine relief according to the principles laid down by Jesus and nothing to do with your tithing & prosperity gospel.

Tonye-t:

- If prosperity was mundane, why would God provide it according to His riches in glory?

Quoting Phil 4:19 and trying to twist it to be material prosperity. I 'll let the scriptures answer you:

Rom 9:22-23  What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,  (23)  in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory--

Eph 3:16-19  that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being,  (17)  so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith--that you, being rooted and grounded in love,  (18)  may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth,  (19)  and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Php 4:19  And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus.

Col 1:27  To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

An examination of the verses above shows you that riches in glory/ riches of glory=>Christ. Moreover Phil 4:19 says supply every need of yours. It is not a promise of material wealth from God. Indeed look at this verse:

1 Tim 6:6-8  Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment,  (7)  for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world.  (  But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content.

And this:

Mat 6:31-33  Therefore do not be anxious, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?'  (32)  For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all.  (33)  But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

Does God say to those redeemed by Jesus that only if you pay tithes then he will supply what you need? Isn't the desire to get rich motivated by covetousness?

1Jn 2:16  For all that is in the world--the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions--is not from the Father but is from the world.

Aren't you rather already on a slippery slope:

1 Tim 6:9  But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.

. . .more to follow  

Obviously, tonye-tithe and his executive director rev. Joagbaje must have left their Scroll expedition in Greece because that country is going broke and came here to try those same old nonsense that has been discredited over and over again.

You can quote the Scripture out of CONTEXT all you want but your SCAM is on the way out, more folks are waking up to your tricks WISEGUYS.

Am I surprised your list does not include HOLINESS without which NO ONE shall see God?

Abeg, carry your Jerry curl head go jare!

@Aletheia:

God bless you for this fabulous and enlightening appraisal of what God demands and the alternative "gospel" of these people! 

1 Tim 6: 6 - 9 "Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment,  ()  for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world.  ()  But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. () But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.

1 Jn 2:16  For all that is in the world--the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions--is not from the Father but is from the world.

@Tonye-Tithes & Naira flavored Joagbaje:

See your life shamefully exposed. You live and have desires which are BUT FROM THE WORLD! Why would that be except that YOU ARE OF THE WORLD.
Repentance isn't late. Thinking to myself: can Joagbaje's artistry feed him if he repents? Chei, God or Baal i.e. money

Just like Mickey Rourke(aka Whiplash) in Iron Man 2 said to Justin Hammer:
"Your software is shi.t" after bypassing all the security systems he(justin hammer) had put in place,
so do I say unto you Tonye-t;

"Your theory/concept/outlook on the this tithe/prosperity issue is shi.t ." since it has always been bypassed
and exposed to be full of flaws.

What is sad is they will come here, pretend they did not see all the information that proves they are wrong, misquote more scripture, rehash more fallacies, try to confuse gullible people then run off claiming they have "proof" tithes work because they tithe and get "returns" from God.

Strange they do not see the insult it is to God that you thus "pay" (or should we say "bribe") Him before you can be blessed.

Again I say, Bill Gates does not tithe! But he gives to charity! Now compare yourself to him

nuclearboy:

What is sad is they will come here, pretend they did not see all the information that proves they are wrong, misquote more scripture, rehash more fallacies, try to confuse gullible people then run off claiming they have "proof" tithes work because they tithe and get "returns" from God.

And thats what they've been doing and will keep doing

nuclearboy:

Strange they do not see the insult it is to God that you thus "pay" (or should we say "bribe" Him before you can be blessed.

Joagbaje:


John 12:6
This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

Could this verse be revealing the real motive the anti tithers kick against the goads?  Read Psalms 41:9 again to discover the real culprits.

OLAADEGBU:

Could this verse be revealing the real motive the anti tithers kick against the goads?  Read Psalms 41:9 again to discover the real culprits.

ome up with??
Oga, upon all the explanations and rebuttals. . . this is what you can can come up with??

You're beginning to remind me of Abuzola

^^^    Abuzola indeed and yes, they do sound alike - no coherence or reasoning ability just jihad for that one and "food" for this one 

@Olaadegbu:

Yes, Judas HAD the bag. And YOU & your business partners also HAVE the bag today.

On the other hand, Aletheia, Zikky, Enigma, Petres, Ogajim, myself etc DO NOT have the bag and cannot steal what we are saying people should NOT bring. If we said people should bring, maybe we could steal. But we recieve no offerings and believe people can give to the poor of their own violition. It shows how deluded you are to say a person who says "don't give me" wants to steal your money whist postulating it is the one who fights tooth and nail to collect from others through manipulation or lies or maybe even occultism that is honest and well intentioned.

It is you that has the bag and wants people to bring to you their hard earned monies. Lazy bones, all of you, refusing to work and seeking other's sweat. Show us your scriptural mentor in this if not Judas who wanted the money into HIS bag like you want into YOURS

nuclearboy:

@Olaadegbu:

Yes, Judas HAD the bag. And YOU & your business partners also HAVE the bag today.

On the other hand, Aletheia, Zikky, Enigma, Petres, Ogajim, myself etc DO NOT have the bag and cannot steal what we are saying people should NOT bring. If we said people should bring, maybe we could steal. But we recieve no offerings and believe people can give to the poor of their own violition. It shows how deluded you are to say a person who says "don't give me" wants to steal your money whist postulating it is the one who fights tooth and nail to collect from others through manipulation or lies or maybe even occultism that is honest and well intentioned.

It is you that has the bag and wants people to bring to you their hard earned monies. Lazy bones, all of you, refusing to work and seeking other's sweat. Show us your scriptural mentor in this if not Judas who wanted the money into HIS bag like you want into YOURS

@Olaadegbu,

I boldened those parts of nuclearboy's post so its not so easy for you to "jump am pass"

petres_007:

ome up with??
Oga, upon all the explanations and rebuttals. . . this is what you can can come up with??

You're beginning to remind me of Abuzola

All your explanations does not hold water if you cannot do justice to the scriptures quoted, even the devil can explain away scriptures as you are doing here. This explains why you have various cults popping up all over the place just as your organisation of (ex baptists) spiritual rebels are doing. God gives reprobates up to their own delusions.

^^ You have quoted ONE scripture in defence of everything we said and alluded to Psalm 41: 9. The answer to your scripture is that I do not carry a money bag with anybody's donations. None of us except you tithe-mongers carry bags. So your quote is irrelevant - If a WHITE american is being searched for, nobody can assess to see if it is me since I am black and Nigerian.

You carry the bag: you are under suspicion, not me!

Psalm 41 verse 9 says "Even my close friend, whom I trusted, he who shared my bread, has lifted up his heel against me". Mr Olaadegbu, do you understand english at all or your delusions are so deep that you just throw anything and hope no-one knows what it says? What does that have to do with this topic? I WOULD LOVE TO SEE YOUR EXEGESIS on how this relates to "GIVING TO PASTORS" seeing as your ilk of pastors are more known for collecting than sharing their bread.

BTW, we are saying you should stop lying against God and give to Him what is His due. But you stubbornly refuse to give up your lies and theft. Who then is reprobate and why can you not (as you say we are) do justice to our posers. For you wish them away for lack of intellectual capability and truth, pretend they do not exist them and only cling to throwing the most asinine misquotes and lies.

Abuzola would be insulted to be compared to you. At least he didn't yab because of "cash" but because he believed his claims. You should be renamed "Abuzola minus minus"

nuclearboy:

^^ You have quoted ONE scripture in defence of everything we said and alluded to Psalm 41: 9. The answer to your scripture is that I do not carry a money bag with anybody's donations. None of us except you tithe-mongers carry bags. So your quote is irrelevant - If a WHITE american is being searched for, nobody can assess to see if it is me since I am black and Nigerian.

You carry the bag: you are under suspicion, not me!

Psalm 41 verse 9 says "Even my close friend, whom I trusted, he who shared my bread, has lifted up his heel against me". Mr Olaadegbu, do you understand english at all or your delusions are so deep that you just throw anything and hope no-one knows what it says? What does that have to do with this topic? I WOULD LOVE TO SEE YOUR EXEGESIS on how this relates to "GIVING TO PASTORS" seeing as your ilk of pastors are more known for collecting than sharing their bread.

BTW, we are saying you should stop lying against God and give to Him what is His due. But you stubbornly refuse to give up your lies and theft. Who then is reprobate and why can you not (as you say we are) do justice to our posers. For you wish them away for lack of intellectual capability and truth, pretend they do not exist them and only cling to throwing the most asinine misquotes and lies.

Abuzola would be insulted to be compared to you. At least he didn't yab because of "cash" but because he believed his claims. You should be renamed "Abuzola minus minus"

@Olaadegbu,

Please respond to the emboldened part in nuclearboy's post and PLEASE explain to us how Ps 41:9 has anything to do with what we're discussing. Thanx!

nuclearboy:

^^^    Abuzola indeed and yes, they do sound alike - no coherence or reasoning ability just jihad for that one and "food" for this one 

Abuzola is still better off than those who profess to be christians but deny the inerancy and infalliblilty of the Word of God.  If Abuzola accepts Christ as his personal Saviour and you are still arguing with the Word of God where do you think you are going to end up?  Have you heard of the timeless Words of Jesus that said the the first shall be last and the last shall be first?  If I were you I would examine myself to see whether I am still in the faith.

nuclearboy:

@Olaadegbu:

Yes, Judas HAD the bag. And YOU & your business partners also HAVE the bag today.

On the other hand, Aletheia, Zikky, Enigma, Petres, Ogajim, myself etc DO NOT have the bag and cannot steal what we are saying people should NOT bring. If we said people should bring, maybe we could steal. But we recieve no offerings and believe people can give to the poor of their own violition. It shows how deluded you are to say a person who says "don't give me" wants to steal your money whist postulating it is the one who fights tooth and nail to collect from others through manipulation or lies or maybe even occultism that is honest and well intentioned.

It is folks like you that would say the same thing that Judas said thinking that you are sincerely concerned for the plight of the poor.  Do you want to know who a thief is?  Hear it from Jesus who said:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that enters not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.  But he that enters in the door is the shepherd of the sheep."

You may not be able to see beyond your nose now but what you guys are doing is not different from what the thief in the verse above is doing.  When you discourage the flock of the Shepherd from doing the will of God (in this sense, giving to the Lord) you are in a sense stealling from them.  "The thief cometh not but for to steal and to kill and to destroy".  So, in essence, you are depriving and preventing the children of God from giving to the work and service of the Lord, deluding yourselves into thinking that you are doing service to God and the people.  If you will not serve God don't deprive others from doing so.  The fact that there are charlatans does not nullify the word of God, you cannot throw the baby out with the dirty water.

nuclearboy:

It is you that has the bag and wants people to bring to you their hard earned monies. Lazy bones, all of you, refusing to work and seeking other's sweat. Show us your scriptural mentor in this if not Judas who wanted the money into HIS bag like you want into YOURS

By their fruits you shall know them.  I can see the spirit of accusations oozing out just like that of the accuser of the brethren.  Who told you that I am a pastor, and who told you that I am not working?  The only exercise folks get to do nowadays is jumping to conclusions and making unfounded assumptions of what they know nothing about.

My scriptural mentor is Dr. W.F. Kumuyi and he is a man of intergrity who entered into the ministry with the motive of winning souls and living for the glory of God.  And for your information, he does not have any personal bank account to steal your pennies (or is it kobos), neither does he have any personal properties.  If you have any accusations about him say it now or forever remain silent.

^^ Mentor indeed. Thats a guy I have some respect for and who will answer the posers, not try to make this into an emotional battle of wills. Rubbish post - what have you said?

You said we should give to the Lord but then "intepret" Gods Word (opposing 2nd Peter that says God's Word should not be intepreted privately) that giving to the "Lord" means "giving to Pastors". Thief, stealing from God! When did your pastor become God? then you say that means I am not serving "god". Yes, I am not serving your pastor! I serve the living God!

You say the first shall be last. Does that not conversely, apply to you too. Go look in a mirror, THIEF, stealing from God!

You say those who enter not by the door are thieves. Fine - Deut 26 tells us that tithe are meant for [1] needy [2] stranger [3] widow [4] fatherless [5] levite BECAUSE they have no possessions. Jesus and Apostles worked for their living- go find work, thief!

You are a thief, a liar and of the devil - "you 'SEE' the spirit of accusations"  . With which eyes? Those hopelessly corrupt and morally bankrupt ones in your head or the "lying" spirits of Baal that live in you that makes you claim the place and rights of the Almighty? Now you can "see" into the spirit and assessing truth, what you see is accusations?  No wonder such as you were unhappy when Jesus whipped money-changers out of the Temple. And that, thief, is all I am doing here - showing you that you are commercialising God's Work and using His name to steal.

What is funny is that you have NOT one scriptural point. NOT ONE. All you do is throw sentiments as though we should feel sorry for you because you have decided to become a pastor and thus bring our livelihood to you and yours. It can't work, you THIEF.

Kumuyi has not (to my knowledge) turned God's Word upside down and so I judge him not. But if he does, watch this space. And before you start shouting "Touch not my anointed" etc, read this https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-439112.0.html#msg5973094. The false prophets God said to kill had to be judged and touched - that means we have to put them on the scales of God's Word, no matter who they are.

Respond as a Christian, not the thief you are. Use scripture concerning this topic not sentiments that cannot be backed by the Word. No one feels sorry for a thief.

@nuclearboy,

Responding to your posts would not help my spiritual wellbeing, but  would leave you with the Words of my Master and hope that you will come to your senses before it is too late.

"Give not that which is holy to the dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." -- Matthew 7:6