Obalufon:


You need to be civilized to live in arid origin. you people were caged in the forest ..when you people were busy eating yourselves we were busy building empire we were expose to other empires all over Africa as far a Mauritanian ghana mali ..yoruba.. have lot of 14 centuries or earlier script written in ajami Arabic script yoruba scholars were teaching in sankore university mali .. some of these scholars afa started ilorin that fought oyo.. ilorin was safe haven for rebellion Muslims driven out of oyo due to their religion discrimination and other atrocities then .. Ife great prince Oranmiyan went up north to set up his empire at the bank of river niger ..

Moorish:
Alaafin was never humiliated by Europe

Oba of Benin was flogged on the way to calabar

Obalufon:
Why would this tribal forest pygmies think Yoruba are cowards when we fought the most wars than any tribe in Nigeria i want to know the yard stick being used for this stereotype to think we are .cowards .This a joke and far from the truth , being civilized and i have undergone series internal wars that made us to cherish humanity and learn to coexist with our neighbors shouldn't be misconstrue as act of weakness ..we are urbanize people we've reached a level of empire and state read books written by explorers that managed to get into Yoruba hinterland,we had more cities that the whole Europe in combined we were city builders.. lot people lives among us for centuries .oyo empire have hausa bariba Nupes and other tribes in their imperial army which rose to the level of generals much like Roman empire, the first oyo empire general lisimo ""Are ona kankanfo was from portnovo ...Yoruba is a spirit not bound by language or ethnic bigotry ....Benin claim to be strong yet you were defeated and your chiefs were hung like dogs in your own land abomination no Yoruba oba or king would rather allow himself to be put in to such embarrassment he would rather commit suicide or die fighting ..your king was chained alike slave and jail in calabar.No yoruba king would allow himself to live to witness such inhuman and degrading situation "iku ya ju esin lo, .Yoruba king would kill himself..king must fight till death a general most fight till death that's yoruba .....1966 coup akintola was the only premier that fought till death taking lot of soldiers lives with him and wounded alot in the assault he knew they were coming for him he would have ran away but is unlike Yoruba man,,his not a bastard is yoruba with obvious tribal mark omo akin oogbo'do she ojo... he armed himself and fought ganlanttly till death ...

.Counter coup..when ironsi was running with tail between his legs to, Adekunle Fajuyi house for protection when the junior officers came to kill ironsi , Adekunle Fajuyi didn't allow them to do it he insisted they have to kill him first to kill ironsi he gave his life according to military ethics no Benin or Ibo man fit do that for their fellow tribe's man not to talk of a Yoruba man.when abacha was killing everybody threaten to kill obasanjo... obasanjo was out of country he was warned globally not to come back to Nigeria that he would be killed he came home to face the death ...that is a true Yoruba man for you

Moorish:
Alaafin was never humiliated by Europe

Oba of Benin was flogged on the way to calabar

davidnazee:


It’s a lie jor.. stop deceiving yourself..
anyways here is research from your fellow Yoruba brother..

“The origin of the Benin and Yoruba empires of old have come to the fore and they have been subject of intense debate.
No doubt the origins of the two empires are obscure being deeply buried in legend and mythology and it is not easy to say what amount of history or the amount of embellished history they contain. In truth these traditions which on the surface try to account for the origin of these empires are perhaps little more than ideological chatters legitimizing the political systems, traditions, cultures, etc. of the people. This general position not withstanding, it is worthy of note that the Benin through their well renowned Arts and Craft recorded their history and event in addition to the account of the guild of oral recorders. The most contentious of this debate for now, however, is the Benin-Ife historical connection.

Many historians and social anthropologists especially the Yoruba historians have been greatly impressed by the tradition that the Yoruba Kingdom fathered the second Benin empire. According to Prof. A.B.Aderibigbe, "obviously there is an attempt in this story to gloss over what in fact was an alien imposition." Along the same line, Prof Michael Growder said that this tradition could be "a convenient legend to disguise what in fact was a conquest by the Oduduwa party".

Here however, the following points are worthy of note: First the Ife-Benin connection has been vigorously questioned by Prof. A.F.C. Ryder. He had pointed out that this tradition which seeks to connect Benin with Ife is suspect. He argues that throughout four centuries of contact between Benin and various European nations, in particular Portugal, there was no hint or reference to this relationship between the two empires. The tradition was not mentioned or recorded by any writer until after the British occupation of Benin in 1897. He also pointed out that the city of Ife is believed to be younger than Benin and therefore could not have fathered the second Benin Empire.

Second, according to Prof Ryder, by 1485 Benin was an impressive and large city. Judging by the evidence of European visitors, it was perhaps the largest and most impressive city which the Portuguese saw along the west coast of Africa. Recent archaeological evidence would seem to indicate that Ife was built probably not before the first decade of the 16th century while the capital of old Oyo, Yatenga, was built much later. This would seem to show that the complex political system of the Yoruba which the Benin Kingdom is believed to have descended must have originated much later than the Benin Kingdom.

Third, much of the evidence which is believed to corroborate the claims made in the traditions comes from enthnohistory, that is, historical speculations based on assumed logical sequence of development in the political system. This is most unreliable.

By the 15th Century, the Benin Kingdom had achieved the height of its greatness. It remained the most powerful and the largest Kingdom in the forest region of West Africa until about the end of the first half of the 17 century. During these two centuries of its ascendancy Benin empire stretched as far west as Lagos, Badagry and Whyidah (Dahomey). On the north-west it stretched as far as Ekiti, Akure and Owo. Towards the north, it stretched to Ishan Country and the southern position of Idah. Finally on the east it incorporated at various times various portions of Ika-Ibo and as far as the River Niger.

Prof. Biobaku has suggested that the eastern fringe of what is now Yorubaland was in pre-Yoruba days thinly inhabited by the ancestors of the modern Benin people, a people which he called the Efa. And if recent archaeological evidence would seem to indicate that Ife was built not before the first decade of the 16th century thereby making it to be younger than Benin”

Obalufon:





SORRY BENIN KINGDOM NOT EMPIRE .. EMPIRE OVER WHO BUNCH OF FOREST SAVAGES ..LAUGH ROLLING ON THE FLOOR

Moorish:

There are no written accounts from any independent African and non African sources on any official tributary state of the Benin kingdom

Show me any Wikipedia or any more respected source which names any Benin tributary state

Benin people you cannot do it

Oyo had many tributary states as verified by the conquered, African and European sources

Benin in a delusion about their kingdom

samuk:


In terms of greatness, the only place in the whole of south sahara African that was fit enough to be described as a City when the European arrived in the 15th century was Benin. Benin did not name herself a City but the Europeans did. Don't forget they visited the whole of Africa, they also name a section of the ocean running through the west coast of Africa ( the bight of Benin) after Benin for her greatness, this is where Republic of Benin took her name. Today as a reminder of Benin Empire's greatness, a huge body of international water (bight of Benin) was named after her by European cartographers, a whole country where some of the inhabitants speak Yoruba (Republic of Benin) bears her name, Republic of Benin had the options of naming herself the Republic of Oduduwa or Republic of Oyo but choose Republic of Benin instead. What about Benin arts in most major museums in the world, from Europe to America to Canada to Australia. Benin Empire was the first to exchange ambassador with a European country in the 16th century even before any of the present countries that made up the Africa continent was put together as nations by the Europeans. The lists goes on and on but I will pulse here for now and over to you to point to the independently verifiable evidence that made Oyo even a kingdom let alone great and mind you all I have written was confirmed independently by the Europeans and not some Benin Historians and these evidence can still be verified today.

samuk:


In terms of greatness, the only place in the whole of south sahara African that was fit enough to be described as a City when the European arrived in the 15th century was Benin. Benin did not name herself a City but the Europeans did. Don't forget they visited the whole of Africa, they also name a section of the ocean running through the west coast of Africa ( the bight of Benin) after Benin for her greatness, this is where Republic of Benin took her name. Today as a reminder of Benin Empire's greatness, a huge body of international water (bight of Benin) was named after her by European cartographers, a whole country where some of the inhabitants speak Yoruba (Republic of Benin) bears her name, Republic of Benin had the options of naming herself the Republic of Oduduwa or Republic of Oyo but choose Republic of Benin instead. What about Benin arts in most major museums in the world, from Europe to America to Canada to Australia. Benin Empire was the first to exchange ambassador with a European country in the 16th century even before any of the present countries that made up the Africa continent was put together as nations by the Europeans. The lists goes on and on but I will pulse here for now and over to you to point to the independently verifiable evidence that made Oyo even a kingdom let alone great and mind you all I have written was confirmed independently by the Europeans and not some Benin Historians and these evidence can still be verified today.

Moorish:

There are no written accounts from any independent African and non African sources on any official tributary state of the Benin kingdom

Show me any Wikipedia or any more respected source which names any Benin tributary state

Benin people you cannot do it

Oyo had many tributary states as verified by the conquered, African and European sources

Benin in a delusion about their kingdom

Obalufon:


they can't go up north .Portuguese traded with the coastal tribe Portuguese get to know about ife and and oyo from the coastal tribes

samuk:


In terms of greatness, the only place in the whole of south sahara African that was fit enough to be described as a City when the European arrived in the 15th century was Benin. Benin did not name herself a City but the Europeans did. Don't forget they visited the whole of Africa, they also name a section of the ocean running through the west coast of Africa ( the bight of Benin) after Benin for her greatness, this is where Republic of Benin took her name. Today as a reminder of Benin Empire's greatness, a huge body of international water (bight of Benin) was named after her by European cartographers, a whole country where some of the inhabitants speak Yoruba (Republic of Benin) bears her name, Republic of Benin had the options of naming herself the Republic of Oduduwa or Republic of Oyo but choose Republic of Benin instead. What about Benin arts in most major museums in the world, from Europe to America to Canada to Australia. Benin Empire was the first to exchange ambassador with a European country in the 16th century even before any of the present countries that made up the Africa continent was put together as nations by the Europeans. The lists goes on and on but I will pulse here for now and over to you to point to the independently verifiable evidence that made Oyo even a kingdom let alone great and mind you all I have written was confirmed independently by the Europeans and not some Benin Historians and these evidence can still be verified today.

Moorish:
@obalufon

Benin were extremely lucky they never faced Oyo face to face in an open plain

Benin were only good in melee combat (Hand to hand, swords)

Oyo had archers and cavalry

We couldn’t conquer them due to their walls and they sat tight within their walls

They couldn’t come out

Obalufon:


we had better sword men than them.. they were only raping small villages ...oyo had 2 dreadful northern kingdoms in control baribas borgus and nupes.. as vassal state

Moorish:

The Europeans told the oba that they have heard of a very fierce king in the hinterland whose face no one can see.

The oba of Benin confirmed it.

They were referring to the alaafin of Oyo

davidnazee:


Please shut up... which Oyo? Oyo that was very dead and buried by the time the Europeans got to West Africa..
and are you not ashamed of yourself and Yorubas turning Benin story into Oyo story? It was the Oba of Benin that was described to the Europeans as a powerful king in the hinterland..
I feel sorry for you yorubas fighting for relevance in the past instead of fighting for a better future..
The whole world already know Benin conquered and ruled you people.. nothing can change that.

Moorish:


But calabar people flogged your oba na

Stop deluding yourself and accept you are worthless

davidnazee:


Indeed Calabar flog Oba of Benin abi.. lol
Many Yoruba princes were slaves at Oba of Benin palace. A requirement by the Benin king to have conquered Yoruba kingdoms princes serve as slaves before they will be allowed to go back home to be king..
Yorubas are cowards that is a fact. Go ask Igbos or Hausas..

Moorish:

I’m not going to respond to your make believe fables

David, why do most sources of contemporary history maintain that Benin had no vassal states or tributaries?

davidnazee:


All historical accounts names Lagos, Owo, Ekiti, Akure.. these Yoruba states were Benin Kingdom’s vassal, tributaries or colonies anyone u want to call it.
All these Yoruba noise started after the British propped you guys up for being loyal subjects.
While other tribes struggled against Whiteman rule Yoruba are the only ones that easily and humbly surrendered.

Benin kingdom conquered and ruled Yorubas.. that is a stigma on you guys forever. You are a conquered tribe. Our trophy.

Moorish:

Wikipedia lists your civilization as “Benin Kingdom”

They list mine as “Oyo Empire”

I researched your claims and according to Wikipedia and the Encyclopedia Brittanica your claims are inaccurate

Both websites also state that your kingdom went through some sectarian issues and you asked a prince of ife to come and restore order to your place

Not a word on Ekaladerhan

davidnazee:


I checked Wikipedia too. It says Yorubas claim Oduduwa fell from the sky, it also says Benin gives a more realistic account of Oduduwa as an exiled Benin prince who relocated to Ife and conquered them.
Your Wikipedia also said early explorers found Benin to be a highly advanced and highly developed empire ruling over many towns and kingdoms including Yorubas but it only says dead Oyo was claimed to be a Yoruba empire in the west. Even Wikipedia does not have any factual accounts of Oyo because nobody witnessed it.

Moorish:


“The original people and founders of the Benin Kingdom, the Edo people, were initially ruled by the Ogiso (Kings of the Sky) who called their land Igodomigodo.”

Your ogiso’s apparently fell from the sky too. What’s your point ?


WIKIPEDIA “It was during this period of confusion the elders led by Oliha mounted a search for the banished Prince Ekaladerhan whom the Ife people will now called Oduduwa.”

The poor grammar above (see bolded) tells me a benin person wrote this

Moorish:
@Obalufon

The British expedition on their little Benin lasted only 9 days 9–18 February 1897

Even the ijebus fought more valiantly than these Benin cowards

Once a slave always a slave

They were aiding the British to penetrate Nigeria

The British used canon fire to shell our forte in lagos and then 10,000 of those Benin cowards came into lagos and helped Britain

But the idiots did not realize Britain will come for them too

Serves them right

Benin monarch the only monarch in Nigeria who was banished from his own kingdom

Oh boy

davidnazee:


Please stop giving ur name to another person. It’s Yorubas that is generally known as cowards. You guys are lucky for British intervention in Africa, if not for them you will be speaking Edo by now and singing Benin national anthem by now.
Benin conquered and ruled Yoruba people. You guys were once Benin subjects.

I don’t need to educate you on how many brave African monarchs British exiled. No be my fault you don’t know.

Moorish:

Yoruba was the official language of the Benin palace for years

Ewuare ended this tradition

We were and still are your benefactors

Thank the bravery of Oyo sons who defeated the marauding Fulanis at that final battle in Ibadan

Thesame Fulani force that conquered Hausa land

We know how to pick our battles

We are gentle and are not easily provoked

Do not take that for cowardice

Not that I care what you think

You and your folk are beneath me

davidnazee:


You claim to defeat Fulanis in just one battle and you are happy. Look all over Yoruba lands it’s Fulanis ruling you. Your Obas are becoming emirs, u are here lying to yourself.
In the past Yoruba was a war trophy for powerful kingdoms. Nupe conquered you, Fulanis conquered you, great Benin conquered and ruled you..
everybody knows Yoruba can bark and everybody knows yorubas cannot bite.

All your stories about Benin Kingdom is all lies that’s why I don’t bother challenging your stories but I will continue to give u facts about a time when Yoruba was weak..

Do you feel ashamed when u go through historical accounts and it is filled with Yorubas conquered and ruled by different kingdoms?

Moorish:

I can only pity your ignorance

I prefer my enemies underestimate me actually

Believe whatever you want about the noble people of yoruba

How does it feel to come from a culture of s.luts ?

Once Italy restricts the human cargo coming from your domains..

Oba won’t even have money for beads