Ibime:


This ain't big Pharma, this is Medical Insurance

E sure me die say Big Pharma move with security due to the various vaccine nutjobs out there

But from the style of execution, it doesn't look like a disgruntled wacko. This was a paid hit by some acquaintance of his.

Market cap of $560B.
Revenue of $350B.

UnitedHealth is bigger than Pfizer and Johnson & Johnson combined.
Only Eli & Lily is bigger.

Dem dey Big Pharma league.
Still dey operate like say dem b glorified paper pushers.

I'm far more concerned about how easy it was to take him out than the nature of the execution.
Whether it was a professional hit or a hobo wrong place, wrong time accident, he should have had better security.

-Lord

Roland17:


It is not by this reasoning. Being the CEO of United Healthcare or any fortune 500 for that matter doesn't necessarily translate into heavy security here in the US. He would move just like anybody else.

It's about threat and risk assessment.
On a spectrum, the CEO of a utility like Exelon or a company like 3M (both Fortune 500) is to the left of Thompson.

UnitedHealth is #8 on the Fortune 500.
Behind only Apple, Amazon, and Walmart (of the US companies).
Thompson should have had better security.

Apple spent $1.4m on Cook's security in 2022.
Amazon spent half a mill for Andy's security in 2021.
They paid this guy 10m last year. But apparently an extra 1m for security would have bankrupted the Group that pulled in 350B. /s

-Lord

reccy:


What's the problem here?. That's their law. You made your law in your country and no one raised an eyelid, why being disturbed with what Iran decide with?

That dressing you uploaded there is decent and should be encouraged. Why making it seems exposing one's body/bikini is the ultimate dressing code?

The same people who scream my body my choice are eerily silent.
The same ones who accuse republicans of controlling female bodies.
That outfit if you got eyes reveals more than it conceals, the gist of that law is women dressing should not tempt men
In their house of prayer women seat at the back, raising her bum bum Infront of men would make the man deviate in the Salah.
If you got brains you can see how a certain faith is never attacked by lefties and liberals.

feedthenation:
---@Uncle Basilico---your MAGAT Daddy Drifter is selling perfume---

He still needs money for his grandkids. Unlike Kamala who is begging for donations after blowing $1.5 B at a rate of $15m per day
Donors want an audit, her campaign staff also became millionaires.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/james-carville-calls-for-total-audit-of-kamala-campaign-after-2-billion-goes-up-in-smoke/ar-AA1v2pFj
He says she spent at least $2.5 billion.
That should be your concern .
A perfume should not make you soil your underwears.

.

Budaatum. France govt fell Far left PM was voted out You know I have to comment.
Le Penn should have been the leader. Macron conspired with other parties to prevent her party from winning outright majority that she'd won in the first round. Just what the EU wants.
Same case happened to Geert Wilders in Netherlands. Leftie conspiring to prevent the conservatives ( which they demonize as far right) from winning. Everyone now knows a bullet didn't stop Trump.

The UK after soundly defeating the conservatives probably be the next?

Come on. Who don't know the far left if they can't control the narrative can never win any election ?

Georgia , riots over the election now on 7th day. The pro EU lost, they are asking kindergarten kids in diapers to join in the demonstrations. This being the Fourth attempt at a Maidan type revolution. Thanks to Victoria Nuland the architect of Ukraine Orange Revolution. Add Susan Powers too in the Georgia interference

https://news-pravda.com/world/2024/12/02/893933.html

raumdeuter:


SCOTUS is currently hearing the case for gender affirming care to minors. I can already hear Justice Alito questioning the argument in favor of it by govt solicitor Elizabeth Prelogar

Alito : Are there individuals born male and at some point identify as female but later identify as Male. Are there such people?
Prelogar: There are such people
Alito : So its not an immutable characteristics?

Tennessee solicitor General Rice: "How many minors have to have their bodies irreparably harmed for unproven benefits?"
Sotomayor: I'm sorry counsellor, Every medical treatment has a risk even taking aspirin. There is always going to be a percentage of populace going to suffer harm

Chase Strango the first trans to address the Supreme Court. Two years old know they are trans and should be given medication.

https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1864105115025625321

A 2 year has to wait till above 28 to take a beer, 18 for a tattoo etc
But can be medically castrated.

feedthenation:


---Trump hasn't even been sworn in and already it's chaos and incompetence---just like his first term circus of appointing the 'best'---

There are reports that Pete Hegseth may be dropped and replaced with Ron DeSantis for Defense Secretary---

You rely on WSJ . Trump told him to "Fight Fight ' but of course your propagandist news sources won't tell you that.

basilico:

The same people who scream my body my choice are eerily silent.
The same ones who accuse republicans of controlling female bodies.
That outfit if you got eyes reveals more than it conceals, the gist of that law is women dressing should not tempt men
In their house of prayer women seat at the back, raising her bum bum Infront of men would make the man deviate in the Salah.
If[b] you got brains[/b] you can see how a certain faith is never attacked by lefties and liberals.

Ok

raumdeuter:


SCOTUS is currently hearing the case for gender affirming care to minors. I can already hear Justice Alito questioning the argument in favor of it by govt solicitor Elizabeth Prelogar

Alito : Are there individuals born male and at some point identify as female but later identify as Male. Are there such people?
Prelogar: There are such people
Alito : So its not an immutable characteristics?

Tennessee solicitor General Rice: "How many minors have to have their bodies irreparably harmed for unproven benefits?"
Sotomayor: I'm sorry counsellor, Every medical treatment has a risk even taking aspirin. There is always going to be a percentage of populace going to suffer harm

Justice K. B. Jackson’s comments were even worse to listen to. The parallels of comparisons she was making are unrelated and far fetched in my opinion. This sort of situation is what turns people off against Liberals.

Roland17:


Justice K. B. Jackson’s comments were even worse to listen to. The parallels of comparisons she was making are unrelated and far fetched in my opinion. This sort of situation is what turns people off against Liberals.

For a judge that does not know what a woman is? That should be expected. An unqualified DEI token for Biden. Nothing more, nothing less

Roland17:


Justice K. B. Jackson’s comments were even worse to listen to. The parallels of comparisons she was making are unrelated and far fetched in my opinion. This sort of situation is what turns people off against Liberals.

I am certain a vast majority of Democratic voters are even opposed to gender affirming treatment for minors but the elites are just disconnected
Have you been in a gathering of regular non political folks and anyone will argue in support of such life altering care for a minor who is still growing and learning his left from right.


Stories like this just sound weird

In California, parents may lose custody of the child if they resist gender transition
https://www.cnbctv18.com/world/california-passes-bill-incorporating-gender-affirmation-in-child-custody-cases-explained-17758741.htm

Mom can proceed with gender-affirming care of preteen son, dealing dad brutal blow after years-long fight: ‘Lost all parental rights’
https://nypost.com/2024/11/22/us-news/jeff-youngers-ex-can-proceed-with-gender-affirming-care-of-preteen-son/

Trumps first 100 days in power.

Kash Patel targeted by Iranian hackers who posses some of his personal communications.
https://amgreatness.com/2024/12/04/kash-patel-targeted-by-iranian-hacking-effort/

Who believes such ? It must be the deep state who have been spying on him.
Obviously they will leak to the media in a bid to scuttle his nomination.

Pocahontas the appropriator has a reason why Hegseth should not be the defense secretary.
In 2023 thousands of servicemen were assaulted when Time Traveller Hegseth was the defense secretary.

She is a professor really?

raumdeuter:


I am certain a vast majority of Democratic voters are even opposed to gender affirming treatment for minors but the elites are just disconnected
Have you been in a gathering of regular non political folks and anyone will argue in support of such life altering care for a minor who is still growing and learning his left from right.


Stories like this just sound weird

In California, parents may lose custody of the child if they resist gender transition
https://www.cnbctv18.com/world/california-passes-bill-incorporating-gender-affirmation-in-child-custody-cases-explained-17758741.htm

Mom can proceed with gender-affirming care of preteen son, dealing dad brutal blow after years-long fight: ‘Lost all parental rights’
https://nypost.com/2024/11/22/us-news/jeff-youngers-ex-can-proceed-with-gender-affirming-care-of-preteen-son/

They lost all the swing states because of this gender nonsense

bemeruca:


They lost all the swing states because of this gender nonsense

Real nonsense.
It doesn't even make sense.

Is that how they hate their own kids?

Why give birth to disfigure your child?
If you want a female child,by all means go through the sex selection options or ivf and you get your female child.
But this cruelty against kids, these people are not human.

Correction.

Most of us are opposed to gender transition SURGERY for minors. Not against gender affirming care in general. I might even be on the extreme side because I don’t even support minors getting tattoos. However, gender affirming care is a lot more than just surgery.

There’s a big mental component to it (I’d argue that it’s the biggest component) which includes the actual diagnosis of gender dysphoria (when applicable), dealing with depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, counseling and coping strategies.

All of these are extremely important and are included in gender affirming care. As a parent of a trans kid, you (generic) would be bereft of your parental responsibility if you deny your child this mental health care and professional support. Ignoring it won’t make it go away. You can’t beat it out of them. You can’t pray it away and You can’t conversion therapy it away. If all these worked, they wouldn’t exist.

What will happen is you will have raised a child who resents you. Who then grows into an adult that hates you. You can’t get a healthy parent-kid relationship with them because you spent your whole life denying who they are.

I know conservatives like to buy into this idea that there’s a conspiracy of people out there to turn their kids into LGBTQ dolls. You have to ask yourself “who wants that and to what end?”

Trans people exist. We can’t wish them away.

I love to have this conversation without it being murked up by religious sentiments or bias. Just straight up “here’s what’s going on and why proponents/opponents of it think it’s helpful or harmful”. It’s hard to get people who can talk about it without getting that way. Here’s to hoping.

raumdeuter:


I am certain a vast majority of Democratic voters are even opposed to gender affirming treatment for minors but the elites are just disconnected
Have you been in a gathering of regular non political folks and anyone will argue in support of such life altering care for a minor who is still growing and learning his left from right.


Stories like this just sound weird

In California, parents may lose custody of the child if they resist gender transition
https://www.cnbctv18.com/world/california-passes-bill-incorporating-gender-affirmation-in-child-custody-cases-explained-17758741.htm

Mom can proceed with gender-affirming care of preteen son, dealing dad brutal blow after years-long fight: ‘Lost all parental rights’
https://nypost.com/2024/11/22/us-news/jeff-youngers-ex-can-proceed-with-gender-affirming-care-of-preteen-son/

Gender affirming surgeries are done mostly on straight boys who have large breast tissue. They are born male and identify as male. We know how cruel kids can be at school. So often times this surgery helps the boys to avoid being bullied as effeminate.

I know most people don’t have a problem with this because it’s done on straight boys versus trans kids.

But if anyone wants to be mad about gender affirming surgeries in kids, this is what you’re mad about.

cococandy:
Correction.

Most of us are opposed to gender transition SURGERY for minors. Not against gender affirming care in general. I might even be on the extreme side because I don’t even support minors getting tattoos. However, gender affirming care is a lot more than just surgery.

There’s a big mental component to it (I’d argue that it’s the biggest component) which includes the actual diagnosis of gender dysphoria (when applicable), dealing with depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, counseling and coping strategies.

All of these are extremely important and are included in gender affirming care. As a parent of a trans kid, you (generic) would be bereft of your parental responsibility if you deny your child this mental health care and professional support. Ignoring it won’t make it go away. You can’t beat it out of them. You can’t pray it away and You can’t conversion therapy it away. If it worked, they wouldn’t exist.

What will happen is you will raise have a child who resents you. Who then grows into an adult that hates you. You can’t get a healthy parent-kid relationship with them because you spent your whole life denying who they are.

I know conservatives like to buy into this idea that there’s a conspiracy of people out there to turn their kids into LGBTQ dolls. You have to ask yourself “who wants that and to what end?”

Trans people exist. We can’t wish them away.

I love to have this conversation without it being murked up by religious sentiments or bias. Just straight up “here’s what’s going on and why proponents/opponents of it think it’s helpful or harmful”. It’s hard to get people who can talk about it without getting that way. Here’s to hoping.

Gender affirming care includes surgery, puberty blockers, hormone therapy and chemical castrations

How do you know a kid is trans? By what they say? And you take the kids words for it? Do you take their words for it when they say they want to be spiderman and make wings for them or when they want to become Jack Sparrow and remove their eyes

No one is against an adult doing anything he wants with his body but at least get to the age of consent when you are acknowledged matured enough to make life changing decisions

Even in liberal European countries, they are backing away from such treatments as there have been concerns about future fertility of the child, growth and bone density

Children due to many factors often display signs of gender dysphoria which they typically overcome as they grow older and more confident in their bodies

cococandy:
Correction.

Most of us are opposed to gender transition SURGERY for minors. Not against gender affirming care in general. I might even be on the extreme side because I don’t even support minors getting tattoos. However, gender affirming care is a lot more than just surgery.

Oh boy!!!!

In otherwords you support Gender transition SURGERY

While I hope kids can talk to their parents if they’re going through something this difficult, at the end of the day, most people are not professionally equipped to deal with a mental condition of that magnitude. That’s why psychiatry/ mental health is very important part of the equation in gender affirming care.

A kid doesn’t say they’re trans today and the next day they’re getting surgery to fix it. That would be absurd wouldn’t it? I haven’t personally known anyone who dealt with this but knowing how medical processes work, there’s usually a chain of escalation starting from least invasive to most invasive.

All the least invasive options are employed before anything this drastic. And that’s why the actual number of trans kids who received genital surgery in America (56 over the course of 3 years) is extremely low compared to the total number of kids who identify as trans (300,000). That’s 0.018 percent of their population. Even lower when you juxtapose it to the general American population . Left to me I’d still say no surgery until legal age.

I can’t help but counter conversations that paint the wrong image of schools (teachers) and medical professionals. If anyone didn’t live in America, they’d whole heartedly believe that kids are being taught to hate their gender in schools and then on their lunch breaks they’re ushered into hospitals and given gender reassignment surgeries before they head home.


One more thing, gender dysphoria isn’t common in kids. I hate to be a stickler for terms but since we’re talking about a serious issue I’ll be that person. Dysphoria refers to extreme distress. Such that they can’t function or develop appropriately for their age. Those are the ones who get these hormones and ish to help them cope.

The rest just cope by hiding, receiving some sort of therapy and waiting until they’re older to decide if they want to go ahead with invasive treatment or not.


I’m glad you don’t have a problem with adults doing whatever they want to their body. I may not approve but I agree on that.

raumdeuter:

Gender affirming care includes surgery, puberty blockers, hormone therapy and chemical castrations

How do you know a kid is trans? By what they say? And you take the kids words for it? Do you take their words for it when they say they want to be spiderman and make wings for them or when they want to become Jack Sparrow and remove their eyes

No one is against an adult doing anything he wants with his body but at least get to the age of consent when you are acknowledged matured enough to make life changing decisions

Even in liberal European countries, they are backing away from such treatments as there have been concerns about future fertility of the child, growth and bone density

Children due to many factors often display signs of gender dysphoria which they typically overcome as they grow older and more confident in their bodies

bemeruca:


Oh boy!!!!

In otherwords you support Gender transition SURGERY

If you bemeruca (I’m assuming you’re an adult) decides today that you don’t want to be the gender that you are right now, I support you. It’s your right. I won’t marry you or be in a relationship with you because that’s not what I like personally but you can go be yourself and I won’t harass you for it.

I hope that’s not earth shattering news to you. Will you be alright?

https://www.asahq.org/about-asa/newsroom/news-releases/2024/11/anthem-blue-cross-blue-shield-will-not-pay-complete-duration-of-anesthesia-for-surgical-procedures

And this is why people have a problem with billionaires and unbridled capitalism. It’s always profit over human lives for them. Damned whoever gets hurt in the process.

cococandy:


If you bemeruca (I’m assuming you’re an adult) decides today that you don’t want to be the gender that you are right now, I support you. It’s your right. I won’t marry you or be in a relationship with you because that’s not what I like personally but you can go be yourself and I won’t harass you for it.

I hope that’s not earth shattering news to you. Will you be alright?

There are lots of things adults can't do. Why should cutting titties off and GloriousGbola be acceptable?

cococandy:
While I hope kids can talk to their parents if they’re going through something this difficult, at the end of the day, most people are not professionally equipped to deal with a mental condition of that magnitude. That’s why psychiatry/ mental health is very important part of the equation in gender affirming care.

A kid doesn’t say they’re trans today and the next day they’re getting surgery to fix it. That would be absurd wouldn’t it? I haven’t personally known anyone who dealt with this but knowing how medical processes work, there’s usually a chain of escalation starting from least invasive to most invasive.

All the least invasive options are employed before anything this drastic. And that’s why the actual number of trans kids who received genital surgery in America (56 over the course of 3 years) is extremely low compared to the total number of kids who identify as trans (300,000). That’s 0.018 percent of their population. Even lower when you juxtapose it to the general American population . Left to me I’d still say no surgery until legal age.

I can’t help but counter conversations that paint the wrong image of schools (teachers) and medical professionals. If anyone didn’t live in America, they’d whole heartedly believe that kids are being taught to hate their gender in schools and then on their lunch breaks they’re ushered into hospitals and given gender reassignment surgeries before they head home.


One more thing, gender dysphoria isn’t common in kids. I hate to be a stickler for terms but since we’re talking about a serious issue I’ll be that person. Dysphoria refers to extreme distress. Such that they can’t function or develop appropriately for their age. Those are the ones who get these hormones and ish to help them cope.

The rest just cope by hiding, receiving some sort of therapy and waiting until they’re older to decide if they want to go ahead with invasive treatment or not.


I’m glad you don’t have a problem with adults doing whatever they want to their body. I may not approve but I agree on that.

Where does Puberty blockers, hormone therapy and chemical castration rank in all of these? As much as 3,000 kids in the US get puberty blockers

Puberty blockers have been known to cause reduced bone density
There have been limited researches on Puberty blockers which are not conclusive and have affected the sexual development and fertility issues

Any adult can choose to do whatever to themselves, as long as they are fully aware of the effects. If we as a society agree that kids cannot make decisions on trivial things in their lives, they cant even get a tattoo which is usually removable, cant even get certain piercings but we are suddenly okay with kids undergoing chemical castration procedures in the same age

A child's confusion can take several months even years and at the end they outgrow it and just say I was just silly, How many things you thought as a 6 to 12yr old do you want to be held to permanently in your life today

raumdeuter:


Where does Puberty blockers, hormone therapy and chemical castration rank in all of these? As much as 3,000 kids in the US get puberty blockers

Puberty blockers have been known to cause reduced bone density
There have been limited researches on Puberty blockers which are not conclusive and have affected the sexual development and fertility issues

Any adult can choose to do whatever to themselves, as long as they are fully aware of the effects. If we as a society agree that kids cannot make decisions on trivial things in their lives, they cant even get a tattoo which is usually removable, cant even get certain piercings but we are suddenly okay with kids undergoing chemical castration procedures in the same age

A child's confusion can take several months even years and at the end they outgrow it and just say I was just silly, How many things you thought as a 6 to 12yr old do you want to be held to permanently in your life today

I’m getting sleepy but thanks for keeping it respectful so far. I find that can be challenging do that on this subject matter.


Puberty blockers are actually not new. They’ve existed for decades to treat young children (especially girls) who are going through puberty too early. I’m talking 6-8 year old girls growing breasts and starting their menstrual cycles. You can imagine how challenging this was for them.

The aim was to give their body time to grow a bit before they start developing secondary sexual characteristics. The rationale was based on studies which found that kids (girls especially) who go through puberty too early are at risk of developing certain chronic health conditions later in life such as; obesity, pcos, insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes , early menopause & certain cancers (breast and endometrial cancers).

The use of puberty blockers in trans kids is an off-label use. Doctors saw that the puberty blockers were effective in pausing the unwelcome early gender expression in straight little girls. So it’s not as if these are new drugs developed for the purpose of experimenting on trans kids.

But What we never heard during those decades was the concern that people seem to have now about how it will affect those kids in the future. I whole heartedly welcome all concern for children’s wellbeing. I love people who say they care about children but I especially love when it’s come from a place of genuine concern not when it’s being used to push a narrative. There was no narrative to be pushed when it was given to straight girls. That’s why a lot of people don’t even know it was happening.

As for your question, Any hormone treatment is going to belong to a medium range intervention on the spectrum of things because they can be stopped and the effects reversed. Yes they do have side effects as do all medications. What’s important is deciding which side effects are worse than the condition that’s being treated or prevented. It’s going to be on a case by case basis.

Like in the case of using puberty blockers for precocious puberty treatments, if the parents and their doctors think the risk of developing certain cancers in the future is worth preventing with puberty blockers, I can see why the possible side effect of the medication is a lesser risk. The same thing goes for a suicidal trans kid. If the risk of suicide is high, the possible side effect of the medication would be considered a lesser risk. However If the results can be achieved without medication, I’m all for it.

Chemical castration in kids is not a procedure on its own. It’s a side result of hormone therapy or puberty blockers. Because yes when puberty is blocked, then they’re technically chemical castrated. They have a low chance of getting pregnant or impregnating anyone while on the meds. If the medications are stopped, then they’re no longer chemically castrated. There’s no separate procedure in which a child receives chemical castration. I know those terms are often added for dramatic effects by the same people publishing the think pieces.

cococandy:
I’m getting sleepy but thanks for keeping it respectful so far. I find that can be challenging do that on this subject matter.

You have known me on this forum for years and I largely keep my argument respectful unless the poster is trying to be an iddiott

cococandy:
Puberty blockers are actually not new. They’ve existed for decades to treat young children (especially girls) who are going through puberty too early. I’m talking 6-8 year old girls growing breasts and starting their menstrual cycles. You can imagine how challenging this was for them.

The aim was to give their body time to grow a bit before they start developing secondary sexual characteristics. The rationale was based on studies which found that kids (girls especially) who go through puberty too early are at risk of developing certain chronic health conditions later in life such as; obesity, pcos, insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes , early menopause & certain cancers (breast and endometrial cancers).

The use of puberty blockers in trans kids is an off-label use. Doctors saw that the puberty blockers were effective in pausing the unwelcome early gender expression in straight little girls. So it’s not as if these are new drugs developed for the purpose of experimenting on trans kids.

But What we never heard during those decades was the concern that people seem to have now about how it will affect those kids in the future.

This particular case in front of the SCOTUS is US vs Skrmetti. Where the ACLU took the state of Tennessee to court. Tennessee passed a law banning the Transitioning of kids

You will not hear those concerns because they are logical and gender appropriate medical procedures
Feds argued that giving Testosterone to men and denying females testosterone is discrimination on basis of sex. There are medical treatments that are sex specific. That is a fact. Its like me going to the clinic and claiming that since cococandy was able to get mammogram or pap smear so I should be able to do the same too otherwise it will be sexual discrimination or you arguing you want to get a prostrate/scrotal exam since ramdeter got one.

cococandy:
I whole heartedly welcome all concern for children’s wellbeing. I love people who say they care about children but I especially love when it’s come from a place of genuine concern not when it’s being used to push a narrative. There was no narrative to be pushed when it was given to straight girls. That’s why a lot of people don’t even know it was happening.

What possibly could be a good narrative to subject kids to puberty blockers based on how some kids feel they are? That was why I asked if they wanted to be spiderman will you convert their hands to wings for them or say they want to be mermaids or sea pirates will you puck out the eyeballs?
The counter argument of the liberal scotus is to compare hormonal treatment to taking aspirin, While Justice Jackson compared not letting minors go through hormone therapy to the ban on interracial marriage of Virginia vs Loving

Ask yourself how puberty blockers in kids and hormone therapy has any parralel with interracial marriage or you think puberty blockers which can cause infertility, affect bone density and some other risk which has not been fully researched which made some countries t stop it is the same as taking aspirin. If you are looking at narrative or agenda. The argument of Justice Sotormayor and Jackson is what you should be looking at

cococandy:
As for your question, Any hormone treatment is going to belong to a medium range intervention on the spectrum of things because they can be stopped and the effects reversed. Yes they do have side effects as do all medications. What’s important is deciding which side effects are worse than the condition that’s being treated or prevented. It’s going to be on a case by case basis.

Like in the case of using puberty blockers for precocious puberty treatments, if the parents and their doctors think the risk of developing certain cancers in the future is worth preventing with puberty blockers, I can see why the possible side effect of the medication is a lesser risk. The same thing goes for a suicidal trans kid. If the risk of suicide is high, the possible side effect of the medication would be considered a lesser risk. However If the results can be achieved without medication, I’m all for it.

At the hearing Alito asked specifically if sex change reduce suicide. I am quoting him "On page 195 of Kass reporting says, There is no evidence of gender affirming treatments reduces suicide". This is one of the argument many child sex hormone therapy advocate stand on and the data do not support it

Justice Kavanaugh now asked while the ACLU lawyer argued for the benefits, there are also risks involved especially for kids who later change their minds and detransition. risks like fertility, physical and psychological issues later in life, why should this be ignored?

cococandy:
Chemical castration in kids is not a procedure on its own. It’s a side result of hormone therapy or puberty blockers. Because yes when puberty is blocked, then they’re technically chemical castrated. They have a low chance of getting pregnant or impregnating anyone while on the meds. If the medications are stopped, then they’re no longer chemically castrated. There’s no separate procedure in which a child receives chemical castration. I know those terms are often added for dramatic effects by the same people publishing the think pieces.

The ACLU argument was trying to argue that its a violation of the 14th amendment, But Alito pointed that 14th amendment is meant to protect against immutable characteristics e.g something like race that you cant change. He now challenged that gender/sex is not an immutable characteristics

He asked what seem to be a trap question that "Are there people born male, changed to female and later changed again to male. The ACLU lawyer agreed there are such people. So its not an immutable characteristic

I do not have an issue with whatever an adult chose to do with their life even if I don't support it, there is Caitlyn Jenner who everyone has accepted his lifestyle even if you don't agree with his choice. I think hormone therapy for minors who we all agree cant make decisions yet is a bridge too far

You will not hear those concerns because they are logical and gender appropriate medical procedures
Feds argued that giving Testosterone to men and denying females testosterone is discrimination on basis of sex. There are medical treatments that are sex specific. That is a fact. Its like me going to the clinic and claiming that since cococandy was able to get mammogram or pap smear so I should be able to do the same too otherwise it will be sexual discrimination or you arguing you want to get a prostrate/scrotal exam since ramdeter got one.

Raumdeuter I’m not going to address the rest of your post because it’s a matter of agree to disagree. So….

@ bold, do you mean puberty suppression in little girls is a gender appropriate procedure whereas it’s not in boys? They are all kids. I thought the concern was because of their age and how it would affect them in the future.

Mind you the same side effects (bone density loss, temporary infertility aka chemical castration) etc. are applicable across both genders. why is one okay and the other is not? Because one isn’t given for the purpose of transitioning? So then your concern isn’t really about the long term effects of those medications on the young bodies but more so that it was given for transition.

It seems you’re indirectly agreeing that the decision of the caregivers to go ahead with such treatment is okay despite the potential consequences because they’ve evaluated risk versus benefit as it pertains to the specific kid.

So while you may not think it’s worth the risk for a trans kid to get those meds, their parents might think it’s worth it. If my 6 year old daughter started menstruation at that age, I would consider puberty blockers. To me, it would be worth the risk to avoid future consequences of early menarche. But to a trans kid’s parent, my decision might not make sense.

As for the argument “if your kid says they are a spider, will you create them six legs and a web spinner”. It doesn’t actually help anyone. It minimizes what the people suffering from the dysphoria are experiencing.

cococandy:

Ramdeuter I’m not going to address the rest of your post because it’s a matter of agree to disagree. So….

@ bold, do you mean puberty suppression in little girls is a gender appropriate procedure whereas it’s not in boys? They are all kids. I thought the concern was because of their age and how it would affect them in the future.

Mind you the same side effects (bone density loss, temporary infertility aka chemical castration) etc. are applicable across both genders. why is one okay and the other is not? Because one isn’t given for the purpose transitioning? So then your concern isn’t really about the long term effects of those medications on the young bodies but more so that it was given for transition.

It seems you’re indirectly agreeing that the decision of the caregivers to go ahead with such treatment is okay despite the potential consequences because they’ve evaluated risk versus benefit as it pertains to the specific kid.

So while you may not think it’s worth the risk for a trans kid to get those meds, their parents might think it’s worth it. If my 6 year old daughter started menstruation at that age, I would consider puberty blockers. To me, it would be worth the risk to avoid future consequences of early menarche. But to a trans kid’s parent, my decision might not make sense.

As for the argument “if your kid says they are a spider, will you create them six legs and a web spinner”. It doesn’t actually help anyone. It minimizes what the people suffering from the dysphoria are experiencing.

There is always a risk vs benefit argument to any medical procedures. There might a medical case to be made for cutting a leg if there is a bigger chance it will kill you

With regular kids, the risk of doing puberty blockers is what you listed, the risk is what I listed. It can be argued that the risk outweighs the benefit

But what is the risk for trans kids? Suicide argument has not been proven as the data do not support it

Especially when the risk involved infertility for long term and especially detransitioning kids

Data from pub med shows that more than 80% of trans kids have considered suicide and 40% of them have attempted it. Further down the meta analyses, it shows that being accepted by family/support system including receiving gender affirming care significantly reduces the risk of suicidal ideation.

I won’t lie I’m also sometimes guilty of overlooking data that doesn’t show what I want it to. But that’s not the scientific method.

As for the infertility argument, I could reply saying that it’s only temporary infertility unless there’s removal of the gonads in which case then there’s infertility for sure but of course you’ll have a reply for that too. 🤣.
I don’t want to keep going back and forth.

So I’ve noted all you said. And I agree with you that trans adults can do whatever they want with their bodies while maintaining NO to surgery for trans kids. On the rest I’m going to agree to disagree.

At the end of the day, you and I don’t have personal experience with this. So, objectively we are out of our depth in this conversation. If I knew a trans person in real life, I’d have loved to pick their brain and see what I can actually understand based on their lived experience.

I don’t even talk about this in real life because it’s a conversation that doesn’t come up. My main reason for often jumping in on NL is because of the misrepresentation of American school systems and health care systems around the LGBTQ topic.

Cheers.

raumdeuter:


There is always a risk vs benefit argument to any medical procedures. There might a medical case to be made for cutting a leg if there is a bigger chance it will kill you

With regular kids, the risk of doing puberty blockers is what you listed, the risk is what I listed. It can be argued that the risk outweight the benefit

But what is the risk for trans kids? Suicide argument has not been proven as the data do not support it

Especially when the risk involved infertility for long term and especially detransitioning kids