Empiree:
Good. Now, you need to draw curtain bcus you don't know beyond this. We have knowledge of pre-birth and you no longer have the right to demand for physical evidence.

The womb has been studied, the womb is a physical place, science have knowledge of pre-birth not pre-existence, we don't know if we pre-existed somewhere or not.

I am not taking you serious. You have said you have no knowledge of pre-birth. It is laughable that you said there is no spirit/soul. If you have no soul/spirit(ruh), you wont be typing and using computer right now.

We have knowledge of pre-birth, the stages in the womb.

I don't believe in spirit/soul, the brain is responsible for our conciousness, damage the brain and see the results.

what does the science teaches you about pre-birth?. You have problem buddy.

Science have observed the stages of pre-birth in the womb, what your Quran cannot state.

Stick to what you know. Quran teaches that if you dont know ask those who know.

The Quran and every other religious books are filled with ancient superstitions, mythologies, why should a logical person take those serious, like believing in flying donkey or sticks turn to snakes?

tintingz:


I don't believe in spirit/soul, the brain is responsible for our conciousness,

your brain means nothing without a soul. Because soul leaves the body is the reason you dead and transited another another realm and your body is laying down lifelessly.

Science have observed the stages of pre-birth in the womb, what your Quran cannot state.

Quran doesn't state?. This is laughable. Read on the stages


(Quran: Surah AI-Mu’minun,23:Ayat 12–14).



"We (Allah) created man from a quintessence of clay.

We then placed him as a nutfah (drop) in a place of settlement, firmly fixed,

then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech like structure),

and then We changed the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed like substance),

then We made out of that mudghah, izam (skeleton,bones),

then We clothed the bones with lahm (muscles,flesh)

then We caused him to grow and come in being and attain the definitive (human)form. So, blessed be God, the best to create.

At the beginning of this ayah briefed us our pre-existence. So if we arrange these stages chronologically we might come up with something like this:


** Nutfah amshaj (drop that is mixed) this stage covers the period from fertilization to implantation. This stage is further divided into: (present day germinal stage): Khalq, Taqdir, Harth.



** Takhleeq (present day embryonic): this stage extends from the beginning of the 3rd week until the end of the 8th week and covers the developmental events. This stage is further divided into: Alaqah (leech-like), Mudghah (somites), Izam (skeleton) and Laham (muscles).



** Nash”ah: (Growth) [present day Foetal stage] During this period the shaping and modelling are active,the external appearance develops in such a way that foetus becomes recognizably human.It lasts till the completion of pregnancy.It is further divided into: An-nashaa-Khalaqakha (from 9–26wks) and Al Hadana-al Rahamiya (from 26 wks to full term). This could be an apt way of classifying the various stages of human development.




Does man not remember that We created him before, while he was nothing? (19:67)

tintingz:
In pre-birth you exist in a physical place(the womb) what happens before that is unknown, the brain is everything, ones the brain is gone then you go unconcious like oblivion, the brain is the state of your conciousness!
Spirit/soul whatever that is, are just some mythical concept that has no basis of evidence.

The invisible place or imaginary place doesn't exist until proven, you don't know where you are before you exist, you're only assuming things without evidences.

I don't know where I was before I exist and it's not of my concern, I've no reason to believe there's an imaginary place where I was, no evidence pointing to that, it's when we are living we started reading different superstitions about afterlife.

Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators? (52:35)

Meaning, you came out of clay. Clay is physical, and this was the beginning of man.


You notice Quran speaks of pre-existence at the beginning of the Ayah before you finally arrive in the physical womb. Just because science doesn't know that or doesn't teach you doesn't mean it doesn't exist. This is subject of ilm-ghayb. So you and scientists can speak for yourselves {that you don't know about pre-existence of man}. Don't say "we don't know". You don't know.

[s]The Quran and every other religious books are filled with ancient superstitions, mythologies, why should a logical person take those serious, like believing in flying donkey or sticks turn to snakes?[/s]

lanrexlan:
Eid Mubarak in arrears bro That's common with most so called atheists. Insulting and making mockery of religions and religious people, jumping from one religious thread to another. It's pathetic.

They think they are more intelligent than people who profess faith cos they don't believe in the supernatural. They are most logical people on earth!

Exactly, intellectual humility. When someone thinks he already knows, there is no point trying to explain anything.

Brother mine, it isn't difficult to see through people who have nothing to offer, their only argument is mockery and insults, they are like someone who only has a hammer as a tool, everything you bring would only be seen as a nail. There is no other way to describe their parochial reasoning and close-mindedness, it is indeed pathetic!

lanrexlan:

Lol We too will get hajia one day o . Write better than you ke?! You are still my boss, I learnt the rudiments of poetry from you faah.

Should we take a challenge for motivation and inspiration?!

"Robbing my small protuberance belly, pulling my wisdom beard, and with a grin", Lanre, that is how our brothers "encouraged" us with regards to hajia, I'm just fulfilling my responsibility as a good akhee!

It's no joke brother, you write well, by the way, me sef na learner o.

Make I try write something sha....I go post when it is ready in sha Allah.

Empiree:
your brain means nothing without a soul. Because soul leaves the body is the reason you dead and transited another another realm and your body laying down lifelessly.

Lol, you haven't provide evidence for this soul, the only theory I can accept is energy, humans dispatch energy when they die not the concious spirit depicted by religions.

The brain is the only system we can observe that gives conciousness

Quran didn't state?. This is laughable. Read on....

(Quran: Surah AI-Mu’minun,23:Ayat 12–14).

"We (Allah) created man from a quintessence of clay.

We then placed him as a nutfah (drop) in a place of settlement, firmly fixed,

then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech like structure),

and then We changed the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed like substance),

then We made out of that mudghah, izam (skeleton,bones),

then We clothed the bones with lahm (muscles,flesh)

then We caused him to grow and come in being and attain the definitive (human)form. So, blessed be God, the best to create.

At the beginning of this ayah briefed us our pre-existence. So if we arrange these stages chronologically we might come up with something like this:


** Nutfah amshaj (drop that is mixed) this stage covers the period from fertilization to implantation. This stage is further divided into: (present day germinal stage): Khalq, Taqdir, Harth.



** Takhleeq (present day embryonic): this stage extends from the beginning of the 3rd week until the end of the 8th week and covers the developmental events. This stage is further divided into: Alaqah (leech-like), Mudghah (somites), Izam (skeleton) and Laham (muscles).



** Nash”ah: (Growth) [present day Foetal stage] During this period the shaping and modelling are active,the external appearance develops in such a way that foetus becomes recognizably human.It lasts till the completion of pregnancy.It is further divided into: An-nashaa-Khalaqakha (from 9–26wks) and Al Hadana-al Rahamiya (from 26 wks to full term). This could be an apt way of classifying the various stages of human development.

This is just one of those mythical stories we read from religious texts, the creation of humans out of clay is popular in mythologies in most ancient cultures. E.g the Greek mythology mentioned how Prometheus created humans with water and clay. This was believed long before the Quran exist.

So that alone from the Quran verse is false about human creation, the human body is carbon base not silicon.

And besides the premise was about the pre-birth in the womb not pre-creation.

Does man not remember that We created him before, while he was nothing? (19:67)

Do you believe something can come out of nothing?

Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators? (52:35)

Meaning, you came out of clay. Clay is physical, and this was the beginning of man.

Clay is not even nothing, it's something.

If you came out of clay then you should be silicon not carbon base.

You notice Quran speaks of pre-existence at the beginning of the Ayah before you finally arrive in the physical womb. Just because science doesn't know that it didn't teach you doesn't mean it doesn't exist. This is subject of ilm-ghayb. So you and scientists can speak for yourselves that you don't know about pre-existence of man. Don't say "we don't know". You don't know.

Science can explain how we evolve with evidences and evolutionary theories collated, but telling where we are before we exist is unknown, your God having meeting with fairy angels and 6 days creation is Superstitious and absurd.

Early humans have been trying to explain where we came from and how we were created but out of ignorance they came up with different mythologies.

tintingz:
Lol, you haven't provide evidence for this soul, the only theory I can accept is energy, humans dispatch energy when they die not the concious spirit depicted by religions.

And where is energy?. You can't see it but you believe it?. But when it comes to Divine truth you snubbed. You are incredible

The brain is the only system we can observe that gives conciousness

waste of time going back n forth. Your brain is dummy without your soul

This is just one of those mythical stories we read from religious texts, the creation of humans out of clay is popular in mythologies in most ancient cultures. E.g the Greek mythology mentioned how Prometheus created humans with water and clay. This was believed long before the Quran exist. So that alone from the Quran verse is false about human creation, the human body is carbon base not silicon.

I didnt expect any reasonable comment from you. You would ask for evidence from our Book but when you are presented you say it is one of those mythologies just as I said before that if God had been physical you would concluded that 'he is just one of those things'. Now take a look at the picture the flesh goes back to the soil and turns clay. Which means the body dissolves in clay. And no matter how long it take the bones too go back to where they came from (clay). Since you believe in materialism or what you can see, clearly you can see physical human body dissolved in clay. Hence, Quran says,




From the earth [b]We created you, and into it We will return you, and from it We will extract you another time.[/b] 20:55



See how the verse beautifully and summarily explained your origin and your returned destination. Deny it all you want. You are now provided physical evidence of your source. You can keep saying this is myth. Scientists actually pondered on the verses of Quran which helped them a lot. They didnt just dismissed them as you do. They deduced meanings from them for their experimentation.

Do you believe something can come out of nothing?

Clay is not even nothing, it's something.

If you came out of clay they you should be silicon not carbon.


Science can explain how we evolve with evidences and evolutionary theories collated, but telling where we are before we exist is unknown, your God having meeting with fairy angels and 6 days creation is Superstitious and absurd.

Early humans have been trying to explain where we came from and how we were created but out of ignorance they came up with different mythologies.

The quoted verses are self explanatory. Why you failed to understand them is beyond me

Empiree:
And where is energy?. You can't see it but you believe it?. But when it comes to Divine truth you snubbed. You are incredible

Energy is observable, but your spirit/soul is imaginary.

waste of time going back n forth. Your brain is dummy without your soul

How did you know this?

I didnt expect any reasonable comment from you. You would ask for evidence from our Book but when you are presented you say it is one of those mythologies just as I said before that if God had been physical you would concluded that 'he is just one of those things'. Now take a look at the picture the flesh goes back to the soil and turns clay. Which means the body dissolves in clay. And no matter how long it take the bones too go back to where they came from (clay). Since you believe in materialism or what you can see, clearly you can see physical human body dissolved in clay. Hence, Quran says,

My goodness, Our body is carbon base not silicon, we're not made up of clay. Decaying under Earth is not a big deal, there are organisms that eat up dead body.

The Quran is not the first book that talk about creation from clay, many cultures have various myths about this, the Greek mythology mentioned how humans were made up of clay and water, and guess what Allah was not the creator, it was Prometheus.

From the earth [b]We created you, and into it We will return you, and from it We will extract you another time.[/b] 20:55

Lol.

(Bibliotheca, 1.7.1), Prometheus molded men out of water and earth.

See how the verse beautifully and summarily explained your origin and your returned destination. Deny it all you want. You are now provided physical evidence of your source. You can keep saying this is myth. Scientists actually pondered on the verses of Quran which helped them a lot. They didnt just dismissed them as you do. They deduced meanings from them for their experimentation.

The Quran is full of myths just like every other religious text, scientists don't waste thier time on it, there's no cure of disease in the Quran, the Quran is not a scientific book.

Can you tell me the experiments and meaning they derive from sticks turning to snakes? Or how a sea was pathed into two? Or how the universe was created within 6 days?

The quoted verses are self explanatory. Why you failed to understand them is beyond me

I once believe the Quran is fact and true, like everything make sense but when I started questioning and reasoning, engaged in critical thinking with researches, I discovered the Quran is no different from other mythologies.

tintingz:

How did you know this?

Brain doesn't function physically anymore unless you wanna donate it to a live person. But here the brain is dummy and it is not useful to the owner

It is physical and it is going back to dust(clay). Why is it dummy?. Because there is no soul. "Energy" is just a loose definition by scientists.

Your soul is currently in you is the reason your brain is functioning to type poo on NL. The moment your soul is gone we no longer he from you and your brain is useless.

Anything else you posted are irrelevant

tintingz:
Energy is observable, but your spirit/soul is imaginary.

You wanna see how soul leaves physical body and entire body is useless?.

Watch 30 seconds live how soul was taken and how the body dropped and dummy. Please don't come here that she had "medical conditions". She was healthy and no complications.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu9hR8Y0Lhs



Why she fell and die?. That's called absence of soul. Now in case you wanna come up with other flimsy excuses like "she fell unconscious", yes, I understand that. People do fall unconscious either bcus of medical conditions, fatigue or slip and fall. But report says this Alhaja died.

Empiree:
You wanna see how soul leaves physical body and entire body is useless?.

Watch 30 seconds live how soul was taken and how the body dropped and dummy. Please don't come here that she had "medical conditions". She was healthy and no complications.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu9hR8Y0Lhs



Why she fell and die?. That's called absence of soul. Now in case you wanna come up with other flimsy excuses like "she fell unconscious", yes, I understand that. People do fall unconscious either bcus of medical conditions, fatigue or slip and fall. But report says this Alhaja died.

If she truly died, did you see the medical reports?, there are cases where people slump and die and there are many reasons, it could be she is diabetic, it could be hypertension, cardiac failure, stroke etc. You can't just conclude from your ignorance and said it is because the soul left the body, what kind of fallacy is that?

Because you see someone showing no symptoms does not mean they are actually healthy, they might be ignoring some things that's health risk.

If you don't have the medical reports, you can't just base your conclusion on fallacy.

Empiree:
Brain doesn't function physically anymore unless you wanna donate it to a live person. But here the brain is dummy and it is not useful to the owner

It is physical and it is going back to dust(clay). Why is it dummy?. Because there is no soul. "Energy" is just a loose definition by scientists.

Your soul is currently in you is the reason your brain is functioning to type poo on NL. The moment your soul is gone we no longer he from you and your brain is useless.

Anything else you posted are irrelevant

You have no evidence of soul, you're just being dogmatic, energy is part of this our natural world and it's not a soul that walk, talk, laugh, have emotions and live in an imaginary place.

The brain is what gives us conciousness, that's what we can observe, every other thing are assumptions and superstitions.

tintingz:
If she truly died, did you see the medical reports?, there are cases where people slump and die and there are many reasons, it could be she is diabetic, it could be hypertension, cardiac failure, stroke etc. You can't just conclude from your ignorance and said it is because the soul left the body, what kind of fallacy is that?

I know it. I said it. I was ahead of you. Didn't I say this?

Empiree:
Please don't come here that she had "medical conditions".

And I said this too

Empiree:
Now in case you wanna come up with other flimsy excuses like "she fell unconscious", yes, I understand that. People do fall unconscious either bcus of medical conditions, fatigue or slip and fall. But report says this Alhaja died.

Keep deceiving yourself. Sickness or medical condition is separate from death. There are people who live with deadly diseases for yrs or they grow old with it and don't die until their time is up on Earth. I had a client who had MS condition at age 33 and lived with it until he died at age of 82 3yrs ago. MS disease can take life shortly after diagnosis but he lived through it. He collapsed once in a while etc. For the fact that he lived longer than expected proved that death is separate from illness.

Because you see someone showing no symptoms does not mean they are actually healthy, they might be ignoring some things that's health risk.

I have told you that it was said she had no medical conditions

tintingz:
You have no evidence of soul, you're just being dogmatic, energy is part of this our natural world and it's not a soul that walk, talk, laugh, have emotions and leave in an imaginary place.

The brain is what gives us conciousness, that's what we can observe, every other thing are assumptions and superstitions.

I have told you that "energy" is a loose definition and a choice of word to disregard Divine plan. I don't argue energy doesn't exist. Energy is part of Divine plan itself.

Empiree:
I know it. I said it. I was ahead of you. Didn't I say this?





And I said this too




Keep deceiving yourself. Sickness or medical condition it separate from death. There are people who live with deadly diseases for yrs or they grow old with it and don't die until their time is up on Earth. I had a client who had MS condition at age 33 and lived with it until he died at age of 82 3yrs ago. MS disease can take life shortly after diagnosis but he lived through it. He collapsed once in a while etc. For the fact that he lived longer than expected proved that death is separate from illness.



I gave told you that it was said she had no medical conditions

Sigh, Ok

Empiree:
I have told you that "energy" is a loose definition and a choice of word to disregard Divine plan. I don't argue energy didn't exist. Energy is part of Divine plan itself.

Ok