Here goes -

[1] Those outside of "Israel" - the physical Israel when Christ walked earth and the "spiritual" Israel today. These were all non-israelites then and today are all non-believers (better yet, all non-professing). Christ has "no" relationship with these.

[2] Those Christ chose as "His" - Disciples who listened to HIM alone and were taught directly by Him. They followed Him against the establishment and chose His Words and Spirit only against all the odds. Christ spoke lovingly but firmly with these

[3] The crowds - (nominal believers) These cheered when He entered Jerusalem but three days after, howled for His Head! These ones want only what they can get. When Christ spoke to these, He mainly used parables because they had no love for truth just a "lust" they wanted fulfilled (healing, money, health). Today, they prefer riddles and so refuse the source and prefer the "interpretations"

[4] The Pharisees and Sadducees - The Establishment! These were the religious leaders who knew the truth but preferred to tell lies. They are still out there today making themselves out as the "Voice" of God and would prefer men left all things religious to their interpretation. With these, Christ was ALWAYS harsh and used words like HYPOCRITES, WHITE WASHED SEPULCHERS etc.

And so history repeats itself and as the Word says 'there is nothing new under the sun'. Just as the 1st century had Pharisees who insisted they were the law and righteous, who gave their offerings before men, counted "tithing mint and cumin" higher than love, justice and mercy, so do we today have a new generation of such - They sit on thrones riding the best cars, take from the poor, pervert justice for self gain and call themselves MOGs.

So do we have the crowds who say they want Christ and make noise when all they want is the blessings they "hope" to get and so they claim "faith". However, when the pharisees decided to have Jesus killed, the crowds supported them. Today also, the crowds support MOGs against the Word of God and therefore Christ because the MOGs tell them what they want to hear. Same story, different actors. 

And there is the unbeliever (non-Israelite). Difference is today, we are exhorted to bring them in unlike then when they could not become Israelites.

The true believer still exists - He follows Christ ALONE and to the exclusion of ALL men, whether MOG or MOD or GO or whatever. He will sacrifice anything including his trust in a man for his trust in God's Word that says "NONE is clean, no, not one". He will go against the flow and whist he may today seem defeated at times by the "religious leaders" who have politicking and the crowd behind them, yet can he like Stephen say : "You stiff-necked people, with uncircucised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers. You always resist the Holy Spirit" Acts 7:51. He stays connected to the "Source" and that to the exclusion of all else.

I wonder which category each of us reading today falls into!

@ Nuclearboy, this is a very good piece.

Thank you.

Thank you, Brothers. It was a result of a conversation between a friend in my little prayer group and I earlier today.

@Aletheia:

Please give us your understanding about those cases; where members of what I would seemingly have called the "Establishment" above fall into the group of "true disciples". How do we know them, their manner etc based on YOUR experience

@DGI-PLUS: Your further contributions even if to expand on my categories or comment on any, would be welcome

[size=5pt]this is where I wish Tudor would show up[/size]

ka-ka-kat-e-go-ri!!!

This is refreshing, nuclearboy. Good post!

One thing i would have edited, though, if I were you, is that I won't say Christ had no relationship with non-Israelites. Rather, he had no obligatory responsibility towards them; until his death.

Mat 15:24 He answered, I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 15:24 Jesus refused, telling them, "I've got my hands full dealing with the lost sheep of Israel."

It's like a man who has his family to cater for, and he sees his useless next-door neighbour getting drunk, beating his wife and their children are crying for food and can't go to school. He can decide to buy things for those children, but not at the expense of his own family. He will attend to his own family first before showing mercy to outsiders.

Mat 15:26 And He answered, It is not right (proper, becoming, or fair) to take the children's bread and throw it to the little dogs.
Mat 15:27 She said, Yes, Lord, yet even the little pups (little whelps) eat the crumbs that fall from their [young] masters' table.
Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered her, O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you wish. And her daughter was cured from that moment.

Mat 15:26 He said, "It's not right to take bread out of children's mouths and throw it to dogs."
Mat 15:27 She was quick: "You're right, Master, but beggar dogs do get scraps from the master's table."
Mat 15:28 Jesus gave in. "Oh, woman, your faith is something else. What you want is what you get!" Right then her daughter became well.

The Canaanite woman understood this truth, too. Stay blessed!

@Inesqor:

Please note I used quotes around my assertion ["no relationship"]. I was trying to keep away from distracting fron the object at hand i.e. those who I really felt mattered who were the "believers".

The "no food for dogs" issue came to mind so it was for simplicity I said "no" relationship

@nuclearboy: My bad. . . Seen!

wasnt jesus supposed to havereturned while at least a soul was still alive among those who witnessed his preaching, mission? what happened? i wish somebody address this issue.

@nuclearboy

I am new to NL but I find your posts quite interesting as I also mentioned in the 'who is a true man of God' thread.

My contribution to this thread would be:

Category 1 - these have been reconciled unto God according to 2 Cor 5:19 but seeing as they are non-believers or non-professing, they cannot be partakers of that which by the sacrifice of the cross Jesus purchased except like you pointed out, they be brought in. However the grace of God has been extended to them. Titus 2:11; For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men

Category 2 - Very minimal in today's christianity.

Matt 7: 14b - and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it

Matt 7: 8 - For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
There is a life that has been provided in Christ, however except you seek, you cannot find and the path to seeking is not a very popular one. However for those who do seek, they then become partakers of the divine nature, enjoy a loving relationship with Christ and bear fruit which remain. And yes, they are an opposition to religion (the establishment).

Category 3 - Plenty, boku, overflowing  in the church today. What can I say except 2 Tim 4: 3-4 (right before our eyes)

Category 4 - With these, Christ was ALWAYS harsh and used words like HYPOCRITES, WHITE WASHED SEPULCHERS etc. I only wish there were more that would emulate Christ in this area. This category of people vex me  so much, don't even want to get started on this.

True believers (within the establishment) do still exist and for me, I can only identify such by:

1. What they profess as the 'gospel' for there is only one gospel, that is the gospel of Christ unto salvation (liberty that Christ brings) to EVERYONE that believes. [i have found that it does not matter how knowledgeable a person is in the word or how many so-called testimonies the have, ONLY the word of God preached from a heart motivated by the love of God has any impact (on me anyway)]. If it ain't liberating you, it ain't the truth cos only the truth makes free.

2. The fruit that their lives/ministries produce. Sometimes you don't need to get close to some MOG's to know what their character is like, just look at their followers, if Christ had not been replicated in the disciples, they would not have been called christians at antioch.

I wonder which category each of us reading today falls into!

None!

2 Cor. 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature:

Ephes. 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

nuclearboy:

Thank you, Brothers. It was a result of a conversation between a friend in my little prayer group and I earlier today.

Hmmmmn, I wonder what he is feeding them with,

^^ Even YOU, Joagbaje should not be daft enough to try to use that trick here.

Your definition is of ONLY "true believers" and not of the mob that you and your burnt-haired swivel-hipped friend cultivate so carefully for their money. And so deliberately, you bring scripture and misapply in attempt to change the meaning of all? .

Is it not "true believers" that are in Christ? Are the "mob" in Christ? Are the Pharisees in Christ? Is the "world" in Christ?

You stopped suprising me when I read you saying Adam was bisexual and all God did in Genesis 2 was to separate His alter-ego, "Eve" from him. You are the perfect example of those Christ used Harsh words for - hypocrite, thief, given to ungodliness and revelling in it for self gain.

eyzhvntsn:

@nuclearboy

I am new to NL but I find your posts quite interesting as I also mentioned in the 'who is a true man of God' thread.

Bro, your ID is quite a mouthful but its obvious you come from good Christian stock. Thanks for your kind words bt if you look around, you will find many more mature than I - watch out for Aletheia, Enigma, TV01, Inesqor and "Lord" Viaro. I call him that to rile him. BTW, the list is by no means exhaustive but you will find a lot of light with them.

eyzhvntsn:

My contribution to this thread would be:

Category 1 - these have been reconciled unto God according to 2 Cor 5:19 but seeing as they are non-believers or non-professing, they cannot be partakers of that which by the sacrifice of the cross Jesus purchased except like you pointed out, they be brought in. However the grace of God has been extended to them. Titus 2:11; For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men

You are right - Grace has been extended to them and the only reason I classified them thus was in consideration of the "dogs can eat crumbs" woman who though outside like these, also had Grace extended to her.

eyzhvntsn:

Category 2 - Very minimal in today's christianity.

Matt 7: 14b - and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it

Matt 7: 8 - For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
There is a life that has been provided in Christ, however except you seek, you cannot find and the path to seeking is not a very popular one. However for those who do seek, they then become partakers of the divine nature, enjoy a loving relationship with Christ and bear fruit which remain. And yes, they are an opposition to religion (the establishment).

Very Sad. Even "sadder" is that God has told us such would be few

eyzhvntsn:

Category 3 - Plenty, boku, overflowing in the church today. What can I say except 2 Tim 4: 3-4 (right before our eyes)

itchy indeed. What bothers me is they never get the promised yet insist on staying. I thought most knew its folly to keep doing the same and expect a different result.

eyzhvntsn:

Category 4 - With these, Christ was ALWAYS harsh and used words like HYPOCRITES, WHITE WASHED SEPULCHERS etc. I only wish there were more that would emulate Christ in this area. This category of people vex me so much, don't even want to get started on this.

Brother, people like Joagbaje above will loosen your tongue eventually if you stick around NL enough. I have read some things here that made me want to stick a finger down my throat and throw up in protest

eyzhvntsn:


True believers (within the establishment) do still exist and for me, I can only identify such by:

1. What they profess as the 'gospel' for there is only one gospel, that is the gospel of Christ unto salvation (liberty that Christ brings) to EVERYONE that believes. [i have found that it does not matter how knowledgeable a person is in the word or how many so-called testimonies the have, ONLY the word of God preached from a heart motivated by the love of God has any impact (on me anyway)]. If it ain't liberating you, it ain't the truth cos only the truth makes free.

2. The fruit that their lives/ministries produce. Sometimes you don't need to get close to some MOG's to know what their character is like, just look at their followers, if Christ had not been replicated in the disciples, they would not have been called christians at antioch.

The few whose ministries (church leaders, not individuals) achieve such are a joy to see.

God bless Friend. Again, welcome to NL

@nuclearboy
By the way, I am not a brother o. lol

Woman? Thats Wow

4 Categories| Parallels Between Now And When Jesus Walked The Earth - The Parable of the Sower

Matthew 13:3-8 And he told them many things in parables, saying: "A sower went out to sow. (4) And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. (5) Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, (6) but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away. (7) Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them. ( Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Mat 13:18 "Hear then the parable of the sower:
Category 1: Seed that fell along the path.

Mat 13:19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.

Category 2: Seed that fell on rocky ground.

Mat 13:20-21 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.

Category 3: Seed that fell among thorns.

Mat 13:22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.

Category 4: Seed that fell on good soil.

Mat 13:23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty."

^^^ Interesting.

Never saw it in that light yet so apt