VALIDATOR:

There is no spirituality or any metaphysical factor in performing magic.Just tricks.
You are made to reason in one convenient way while the magician acts in another way.I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT BECAUSE I KNOW A FEW TRICKS TOO.

Another thing to consider is that a rural African dweller not used to watching TV may actually think that the actors disappear when actors recite incantations and disappear from the screen.

Nobody has ever been able to at will demonstrate magic/metaphysical ability/miracle/etc in a laboratory kind of condition.

1 Position cameras to cover the magic performance from all angles with the magician at the center
2 Record the magic as he performs it.Do not edit the videos in any way.
3 Slow the videos down to less than 6.25%
4 Watch all the slowed videos simultaneously.

this response is more like it. Except for the fact that you don't believe miracles

I have THE SIXTH AND SEVENTH BOOKS OF MOSES

The Mysterious Words and Magic Seals to command Spirits to visibly appear in beautiful human forms are Names of God

We have Lesser Magic like The Experiment of Mockery and Deceits in THE ORIGINAL KEY TO THE SIXTH AND SEVENTH BOOKS OF MOSES

The Greater Magical Arts in THE ORIGINAL KEY TO THE SIXTH AND SEVENTH BOOKS OF MOSES are Experiments of Invisibility, Magic Garter, Magic Carpet, Solomons Treasures, Loose Oneself from Chains, Recover Stolen Goods etc

Though i Tried most of These Expirements but unsuccessful

What is the secret to a successful Magical Expirements?

Joagbaje:

I've studied the bible well and I know even about paul's encounter with men who wrought "Curious art" (magic) . We are not dealing with oriental times now. I just doing a personal research. So don't box me in. I read quoran. I read about other faiths. I should be well informed to reach them at their level.

I believe in the bible. Whatever you mean by that.

You've studied the Bible "WELL" and you believe in it. But the Bible says "there is Magic" and even gives you an example and here you are on NL, (a supposed pastor) asking IS MAGIC REAL?

Then you say

Joagbaje:

this response is more like it. Except for the fact that you don't believe miracles

the above in response to

QUOTE
There is no spirituality or any metaphysical factor in performing magic. Just tricks.
UNQUOTE

So tricks are more like it than the Bible, ko?

I think the problem is that you don't consider who you claim to be when you post and then show haughtiness and self-righteousness to try to recover which just worsens your position. Did you read the Bible verse I gave you about requirements for a Bishop? Go back and look at the part that talks of "the way the outside world looks at him"

Cos me I like you. But you seem not to like youself

LWKMD pastor is asking about magic

^^^ Exactly! Others get it. "Pastor" does not

It seems some of the discussion were at cross purposes. In broad terms, in light of preceding discussion, we can categorise "magic" into two types.

A. Magic as in television/entertainment magic: in general this is based on tricks and illusions and not "dark" powers

B. "Magic" as in relation to "supernatural powers" or the "occult" or the "paranormal"; the Bible passage quoted suggests that this, at the least, existed; instinctively, many believe that it still exists and lore in many cultures suggest its existence. However, obvious examples in modern times are not readily come by and many laying claim to such powers are charlatans and opportunists.

To be fair to him, I believe that my friend pasiiitor Joagbaje really meant to confine himself to entertainment/television magic.

Joagbaje, I've once told you that I sometimes admire your approach compared to some other Oyaks adherants on this forum.
I'm amazed you came up with this thread plus you're trying to convince us about the trickery in magic. well, some of us knew this a long time ago. what I find startling though is how you find it difficult to believe that Oyaks healing school employs the same trickery in magic.
How about something more interesting to research on, try doing a research on 'faith healing' you'd be amazed what you find out.
Cheers!

SirJohn:

Joagbaje, I've once told you that I sometimes admire your approach compared to some other Oyaks adherants on this forum.
I'm amazed you came up with this thread plus you're trying to convince us about the trickery in magic. well, some of us knew this a long time ago. what I find startling though is how you find it difficult to believe that Oyaks healing school employs the same trickery in magic.
How about something more interesting to research on, try doing a research on 'faith healing' you'd be amazed what you find out.
Cheers!

Jesus Christ is thesame yesterday , today and forever. Jesus is still healing. You are talking about Oyakhilome. If you see the miracles and healing God is performing through his children, you will leave oyakhilome alone. The healing school is on presently. Some of us have individuals we sent there , I will furnish the story soon

nuclearboy:

You've studied the Bible "WELL" and you believe in it. But the Bible says "there is Magic" and even gives you an example and here you are on NL, (a supposed pastor) asking IS MAGIC REAL?

Then you say the above in response to [color=#990000]There is no spirituality or any metaphysical factor in performing magic. Just tricks.
So tricks are more like it than the Bible, ko? I think the problem is that you don't consider who you claim to be when you post and then show haughtiness and self-righteousness to try to recover which just worsens your position. Did you read the Bible verse I gave you about requirements for a Bishop?

your attempts to ridicle me have not been very successful. I have freedom to research on anything. I have even research about juju worshippers . Shakers cult, Islam and other world religion. My study is on the magic shows of this post modern society.

Go back and look at the part that talks of "the way the outside world looks at him"

"Him"who? . If you're talking about pastor chris. The world celebrates him. He is a blessing to this generation and the body of christ . The best bible teacher Ive seen. Try get some tapes . His messages will wash you up. And all these junks and maggots you vommit sometimes will be purged from you. You'll be a clean vessel.

Cos me I like you. But you seem not to like youself

I love you jare.

Joagbaje:

Jesus Christ is thesame yesterday , today and forever. Jesus is still healing. You are talking about Oyakhilome. If you see the miracles and healing God is performing through his children, you will leave oyakhilome alone. The healing school is on presently. Some of us have individuals we sent there , I will furnish the story soon

Oh good Joagbaje, I'll be waiting patiently for that; remember I still have the cheque for half a million naira to give to anyone who comes back healed of any of these:

Total blindness
Total deafness/dumbness
Complete paralysis
down's syndrome

To mention but a few; at least we wont have to enter into any unecessary long debate as to the genuiness of their healings. And lest I forget Joagbaje you still owe me one story, you were gonna send me X-Rays of a little boy, remember? I'm still waiting or dont you want any of your members to be $3,000 richer?

@SirJohn:

you offered them 500, 000 and Kenyan/drmightie hasn't come to claim? Maybe CE has threatened to take back the "miracle" if she proves she was truly made well

@Enigma:

Got your point but I wonder - should a question on "magic tricks of this post modern era", as Baba-Jo puts it, be asked on a religious board? Which religion's adherents would be best placed to answer such a question? Is this "clarification" not then, a "fall-back technique"?

Do you get my point now?

@Joagbaje

nuclearboy:

@SirJohn:

you offered them 500, 000 and Kenyan/drmightie hasn't come to claim? Maybe CE has threatened to take back the "miracle" if she proves she was truly made well

yeah I did for the cases I listed cos you would'nt need a doctor to verify them. leave Kenyan28 I'll catch her someday.

SirJohn:

And lest I forget Joagbaje you still owe me one story, you were gonna send me X-Rays of a little boy, remember? I'm still waiting or dont you want any of your members to be $3,000 richer?

X-ray was not done initially I enquired how they got to know about the hole, They said that was what the doctor said. So I didnt bother to do an xtray again since there was none done before. The child is healed , walking and running arround. I can give you the woman's number . You can hear her testimony. I didnt bother raising the issue with you because the proof i relied on wasnt there. We record healings and miracles weekly in many of our churches.

There is another one today of of leg ulcer of two years. I will confirm the medical record if there is any. I will send the guy's number and tommorow you can interview him.

Sir John.

He said he has medical report. I will try get a copy and post but this is their numbers .
Mother :Mrs Ebiye Ogionwo 07031066994
Son Bro Emmanuel Ogionwo 07066982847.
The son got healed of leg ulcer of two years which had defied medical treatment. Call the mother call the son . See the doctor if need be. Jesus heals every day. I still have another HIV case with medical report. I will try contact this lady.

I stand by my word.

VALIDATOR:

There is no spirituality or any metaphysical factor in performing magic.Just tricks.
You are made to reason in one convenient way while the magician acts in another way.I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT BECAUSE I KNOW A FEW TRICKS TOO.

Another thing to consider is that a rural African dweller not used to watching TV may actually think that the actors disappear when actors recite incantations and disappear from the screen.

Nobody has ever been able to at will demonstrate magic/metaphysical ability/miracle/etc in a laboratory kind of condition.


1 Position cameras to cover the magic performance from all angles with the magician at the center
2 Record the magic as he performs it.Do not edit the videos in any way.
3 Slow the videos down to less than 6.25%
4 Watch all the slowed videos simultaneously.

@Joeagbaje,you claim something is dead true only to now say you didn't know that they didn't have an xray.

Joagbaje:

X-ray was not done initially I enquired how they got to know about the hole, They said that was what the doctor said. So I didnt bother to do an xtray again since there was none done before. The child is healed , walking and running arround. I can give you the woman's number . You can hear her testimony. I didnt bother raising the issue with you because the proof i relied on wasnt there. We record healings and miracles weekly in many of our churches.

There is another one today of of leg ulcer of two years. I will confirm the medical record if there is any. I will send the guy's number and tommorow you can interview him.

You claim to record healings and miracles weekly in your churches yet not a single one has been subjected to scrutiny by an independent analyst.

^^^ Yeah, ten thousand miracles yet not one supported by human or medical observation. Just faceless voices behind sim cards bought for 150 Naira each claiming "yes, chris did it". What a travesty!

@ VALIDATOR
You dont understand the genesis of the matter, but sirjohn does. I wasnt talking about miracles through pastor chris but through his children and his children children.

Pastor chris's miracles are verifiable. and they wont be on air if they have not been verified. We have a new programme "Atmsphere of  faith" which NBC had verified the testimonies. Remember thsame NBC banned miracles on Nigerian TV stations. For them to allow healing testimonies to be aired in Atmosphere of Faith. It was verified and proven authentic. If not NBC wont waste time to slam their hammer.

Joagbaje:

Sir John.

He said he has medical report. I will try get a copy and post but this is their numbers .
Mother :Mrs Ebiye Ogionwo 07031066994
Son Bro Emmanuel Ogionwo 07066982847.
The son got healed of leg ulcer of two years which had defied medical treatment. Call the mother call the son . See the doctor if need be. Jesus heals every day. I still have another HIV case with medical report. I will try contact this lady.

Joagbaje this is not what I requested for, you said a little boy was healed of a hole in the heart and that you can provide X-Rays to comfirm this; I said I'm game and I even offered to give half a million if the X-Rays show the before and after.
Now you're brandishing phone numbers like Kenyan28.
try harder!

SirJohn:

Joagbaje this is not what I requested for, you said a little boy was healed of a hole in the heart and that you can provide X-Rays to comfirm this; I said I'm game and I even offered to give half a million if the X-Rays show the before and after.
Now you're brandishing phone numbers like Kenyan28.
try harder!

Why dont you try the lines first, if youre honestly seeking truth. I had already explained the boy case why the test result wasnt available. these other people have medical results ask them on phone. IF THEY NEED TO , THEY CAN MAIL IT TO YOU

Joagbaje:

Why dont you try the lines first, if youre honestly seeking truth. I had already explained the boy case why the test result wasnt available. these other people have medical results ask them on phone. IF THEY NEED TO , THEY CAN MAIL IT TO YOU

you're not gonna shove cellphone numbers down my throat, if u had provided the X-Rays as you said, that would have shut me up for good.
Joagbaje, for two years now I've been working on verifying faith healing claims so be sure that I know what I'm doing. what you're trying to do is exactly what Benny Hinn does, you ask him to provide proof for a blind person he claims was healed and the next thing he does is tell you about a lady cured of osteo athritis. I'm not calling the numbers cos its foul play!

[size=13pt]
<sup>Topic. . .

Magic is about working with power - it is the calling of power, the manipulation of power and the moving of power from A to B. The forms that we work with in vision and ritual, the names, beings and objects are just vessels for the power; they are also just matrices that allow interface between power and humanity. It is very important to understand this when walking a magical path: it is all power and nothing more.

When we first tread a magical path we are often swept up in a tide of rituals, beings, magical objects, visionary inner worlds and inner contacts. Our conscious mind is kept busy with the ëinnerí reality show and that allows our minds to interface with Universal Power. But the clutter of human magic, the accoutrements, are just a dressing that presents until our consciousness becomes malleable enough to work without such dressing. Eventually the work becomes a wordless formless movement of power that has no defined goal other than pure inner instinct: we become a conscious part of the Universal Power. But a practitioner of magic has to go through the stages to get to such instinctive work; through the structure the magician finds the nature of power. Why? Because that is how our consciousness works.</sup> [/size]

@Joeagbaje,

Joagbaje:

@ VALIDATOR
You dont understand the genesis of the matter, but sirjohn does. I wasnt talking about miracles through pastor chris but through his children and his children children.

Pastor chris's miracles are verifiable. and they wont be on air if they have not been verified. We have a new programme "Atmsphere of  faith" which NBC had verified the testimonies. Remember thsame NBC banned miracles on Nigerian TV stations. For them to allow healing testimonies to be aired in Atmosphere of Faith. It was verified and proven authentic. If not NBC wont waste time to slam their hammer.

Are you sure about that?
Atmosphere for faith.LOL @NBC verification.
We are talking of a laboratory-like verification to eliminate false positives and here you are talking about NBC.
Did you really understand that what sirjohn asked for was to eliminate false positives?
once again LOL.

Curiousmind:

I have THE SIXTH AND SEVENTH BOOKS OF MOSES

The Mysterious Words and Magic Seals to command Spirits to visibly appear in beautiful human forms are Names of God

We have Lesser Magic like The Experiment of Mockery and Deceits in THE ORIGINAL KEY TO THE SIXTH AND SEVENTH BOOKS OF MOSES

The Greater Magical Arts in THE ORIGINAL KEY TO THE SIXTH AND SEVENTH BOOKS OF MOSES are Experiments of Invisibility, Magic Garter, Magic Carpet, Solomons Treasures, Loose Oneself from Chains, Recover Stolen Goods etc

Though i Tried most of These Expirements but unsuccessful

What is the secret to a successful Magical Expirements?

The only places where such powers are demonstrated are in pages of books. The only people who demonstrates such powers are characters invented by the authors of such books.