Introduction

Here is the original thread I'll be commenting on - https://www.nairaland.com/4856490/allah-created-humans-clay-sand

tinting: How true is this,

That humans are made up of clay/sand/dust?

I sought to answer this question by collecting all Qur'anic verses on the origin of man - Qur'an 15:28-33, 7:10-12, 37:71-72, 51:14 etc.
Qur'an states that man had been created from sticky clay from aged mud -like the potter's clay, shaped and granted consciousness.

Then I turned to the internet, searching for ......."Clay". "Clay" led me to "Clay minerals", "Clay minerals" lead me to "Abiogenesis" and "Evolution Theory". I must confess after my inquiries, I may be staring at dichotomies between the some Qur'an verses and Science.

And there really is no middle path here. And if you wonder why I, a Muslim won't zealously delve to justify "Clay as the building block" of man, to justify the Qur'an - then sit back, for this review would be highly revealing.

Chapter 1

IMAliy: Adam was created from clay
You were created from your father's sperm and mother's egg.

tinting:
So no inheritance?
How biological was Adam made up of silica, how is that even possible talkless of him procreating?

IMAliy: Just cause he was created from clay doesn't mean he is clay.
Like how plastic is made from crude oil but is not crude oil. (A bad analogy. I not good at making proper examples)

Not bad, not bad. Just because table salt is made from acid doesn't mean it is acid. This was my original approach, to validate the Qur'an. This analogy, I soon realize to be poor when I understood Qur'an imply implies "Clay" as building block for man, not a precursor.

IMAliy: I personally keep my science and religion separate, but complementary to one another.

Then find a time machine and go back to the 1180. You can't keep your religion and science separate in the forever, one day you will have to scrutinize your religion with scientific facts. It is happening to many.

Chapter 2

syno: The Qur’an emphatically states that humans (including Adam (AS) ) were created from earth, thereafter; Allah (SWT) gave information with regards to what was used in stages for the creation of Adam (AS). From the Qur’an, we have mention of the following:

1. Earth
2. Dust
3. Water
4. Mud
5. Clay

The above-named materials are composed of different elements, organic and inorganic materials. While we do not have samples from Adam (AS) to analyze and see what he was made up of, our present composition informs us that all what we are made up of can be found in the above listed, then it is foolhardy for one to just pick one element, or one material and start asking why we are not made up of that material, when there happens to be no information on what proportion of what was used or even how it was used or even the composition of these aforementioned materials during creation.

There has to be silicon, if indeed clay is the building block for man. You can't have clay without silicon as you can't have flour - the building block of pastries, without carbon.

Chapter 3

tinting: If Adam is created from clay then his body, organs is silicon base, how he was able to procreate is very questionable.

najib:
No it's not, as long as I know atheist scientists always make assumptions on things they don't know of how they originated, because none of them was present when Allah was creating the animals or even Adam take for example the birth of Jesus A.S. scientists will always try to falsify his existence because they cannot explain his birth, science they always claim to know everything despite they knowing that they disbelieve in Allah so that they'll carry out evil experiments and carry out their greedy agenda.

Hey! This is too cynical, not all atheist scientists are mad scientists. It was the falsifiable claims of the scriptures, pertaining to human body or natural phenomena that spur these men to doubt the God of Abrahamic Religion.

tinting: Now let's assume Adam was able to procreate, did his offsprings inherited the clay-gene, if no then how are we related to Adam?

najib:
Yes we did but In a different form, that's why there different race's of men, and uniqueness of characters.

But which form? You're telling me that the clay-gene mutated to something else? Yet we still look like Adam? I really don't see this, but I'll give you the benefit of doubt till the end of this thread.

tinting: From Biological evolution study, there is no silica in human evolutionary process, this falsify Quran claim.

najib:
No currently science is not advanced to extent of discovering that

Discovering what? The place of silicon in the evolutionary chain or in the current human histology? If you mean the former, I'm pressed to agree with you, ironically though, there is no indication of evolution in the Qur'an.

If you mean the latter, I beg to differ. So many elements have been detected in human cells and tissues, is there something so different about silicon delaying its detection?

najib continues........

najib: Just like they didn't know about the expansion of the Universe, that the different waters of the world don't mix and also as the mountains serve as pegs to the earth till after several centuries, while Allah revealed it 1400 years ago to an illiterate man in the Arabian desert.

I can't help but divert, this is too many errors for me to overlook. Firstly, how did you conclude that Qur'an reveals the "Expansion of the Universe"? The verse you refer to is 51:47; "And the heaven we constructed it with strength, and indeed we surely siuna".

Research, see how translators differed on this verse. Here is Yusuf Ali: With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.. Also, how many of the earlier scholars or Qur'an exegetes interpreted this verse as "expanding universe"?

Secondly, how did you conclude different waters of the world, salt and fresh water do not mix(Qur'an 25:53). I won't delve deep here, but I urge you to research a little, because although a barrier exist between the waters, they in fact mix.

Thirdly, mountain were thought as pegs back in the days before Qur'an. Besides, this idea is really disputable as I've seen scientific evidence to the contrary. Again, I'll leave you to do your own research.

Make no mistake, I do not diss the Qur'an, but some of what you deem scientific revelations from the Qur'an were beliefs at the time of Muhammad, and some are sloppy re-interpretation of verses, a far cry from the orthodox interpretation before modern science.

As for Muhammad, he wasn't an illiterate. The first revelations(Qur'an 96) to him asked him to Read(Iqra). Which illiterate goes reciting to his people, "Read", whereas he cannot read? This is serious joke.

tinting: And there is problem where the sperm proceed from as mentioned in the Quran.

najib:
Allah is describing the position of your testicles during your infancy so that you'll be taking by awe and fell ashamed and Submit yourself to him.

Alright, stop. OK? Just stop. This is more than enough interpolation to cause an Arabic reader to cringe. "Testicles" and "infancy", really? The Qur'an states it is clear and detailed. It doesn't need words in brackets to be understood.

Qur'an 86:5-8
But let him look, the Man, from what created. Created from fluid ejected. It comes out from between the loins and the ribs. Surely He over returning him to be Powerful.

This verses as generally translated seem to erroneously indicate semen comes from the abdominal cavity. I'm still looking further into it. It is even more disturbing when one learns that in the 7th century, semen was erroneously thought to emerge from the the abdominal cavity(between the loins and ribs), and this verse may be very likely repetition of the same error.

Chapter 4 - Adam's creation in the Qur'an.

I'd rather not delve deep into the repetitive and unprofessional exchanges between the posters in the next 2-3 pages. I'll hereby cite relevant verses on the creation of Adam.

23:12
We created man from extract(sulalatin) of clay.

Extract of clay implies clay in its basic or intrinsic nature, pure clay - a mass rich in silicon and other elements. There is no clay without silicon.

This clay was sticky and was obtained from mud.

37:11, 15:26
Indeed we created them from a clay sticky. We created man from sounding clay, of altered mud.

The clay or creation process for Adam is even compared with pottery in Qur'an.

55:14
He created man of clay like the potter's.

Given the degree of specificity in these verses, it is difficult not to read these verses literally - that God fetched a mass of sticky clay, and molded a human statue, then granted this statue life.

In such a case, it would be only logical to expect silicon in the elemental make up of man, the offspring of Adam.

Chapter 5 - Miracles of Re-interpretation

tru2god: Then why are Muslims always trying to authenticate Islam using science?

Because they are brainwashed. In recent years, the Qur'an is being over-hyped as a deposit of undiscovered scientific facts. Numerous Muslim outlets do exists, dedicated to mining out these scientific facts from the Qur'an and publishing them as scientific miracles of Qur'an.

The publications on the purported scientific miracles of Qur'an can be convincing, especially for those who know only little Arabic, Science and History. Awed by the convoluted heap of exposition they read, they too begin to parrot the purported miracles.

tinting: The funny thing is, I used to believe in this nonsense when I was a muslim. "Scientific miracles of the Quran".

I know, right? I decided to double check the miracles recently when I started reading mythologies of the Greeks, Vikings and Sumerians, finding myths clearly analogous to scientific facts today - like the clay origin of man or big bang theory or the heavenly origin of iron.

I started to wonder why these scientific miracle remain unheard of, until new theories emerge from the scientific community. How would complex facts like Blackholes or Solar Apex be revealed in Qur'an, neglecting simpler ones like the earth shape?

I resolved now that Qur'an can't bear scientific facts not discerned, incomprehensible and unverifiable by the primary audience - the early Arabs. The Qur'an states that it is clear and explained in details.

usermane:


I know, right? I decided to double check the miracles recently when I started reading mythologies of the Greeks, Vikings and Sumerians, finding myths clearly analogous to scientific facts today - like the clay origin of man or big bang theory or the heavenly origin of iron.

I started to wonder why these scientific miracle remain unheard of, until new theories emerge from the scientific community. How would complex facts like Blackholes or Solar Apex be revealed in Qur'an, neglecting simpler ones like the earth shape?

I guess religious people need to wait for science to discover something and then hijack it with cognitive bias and their fantasies to validate their scriptures.

I salute your honesty tho.

usermane:
Given the degree of specificity in these verses, it is difficult not to read these verses literally - that God fetched a mass of sticky clay, and molded a human statue, then granted this statue life.

In such a case, it would be only logical to expect silicon in the elemental make up of man, the offspring of Adam.

You get the point.

For them to make it worse, they brought out the clay hypothesis that holds weak research.

j

usermane:
Introduction

Here is the original thread I'll be commenting on - https://www.nairaland.com/4856490/allah-created-humans-clay-sand



I sought to answer this question by collecting all Qur'anic verses on the origin of man - Qur'an 15:28-33, 7:10-12, 37:71-72, 51:14 etc.
Qur'an states that man had been created from sticky clay from aged mud -like the potter's clay, shaped and granted consciousness.

usermane:
najib continues........



I can't help but divert, this is too many errors for me to overlook. Firstly, how did you conclude that Qur'an reveals the "Expansion of the Universe"? The verse you refer to is 51:47; "And the heaven we constructed it with strength, and indeed we surely siuna".

Research, see how translators differed on this verse. Here is Yusuf Ali: With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.. Also, how many of the earlier scholars or Qur'an exegetes interpreted this verse as "expanding universe"?

I know what I am saying sir, you said that you're a heterodox Muslim, that believes in the Qur'an alone and not hadith that's why you don't have sound knowledge, I am not saying I am a scholar, but Alhamdulillah I have enough to be able to clarify my points and ask relevant Questions,

أَوَلَمْ يَرَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا أَنَّ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ كَانَتَا رَتْقًا فَفَتَقْنَاهُمَا ۖ وَجَعَلْنَا مِنَ الْمَاءِ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ حَيٍّ ۖ أَفَلَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

(Sahih International)
Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?

-Sura Al-Anbiya', Ayah 30

For you not to knowing this verse shows your ignorance and rash conclusions and the hypocrisy of your love towards the Qur'an, don't be like tintinz who got misguided due to his arrogance with ignorance, seek knowledge and don't jump into conclusion a single Google search would have saved me the trouble of typing all of this. Seek knowledge from the Orthodox creed and Schools of taught, evolution is a theory that tries to make the One Who revealed the Qur'an to look imperfect. So please sir make a bit of research before answering topics like this. I am sorry if sound too harsh, but I am just being frank.

usermane:
Make no mistake, I do not diss the Qur'an, but some of what you deem scientific revelations from the Qur'an were beliefs at the time of Muhammad, and some are sloppy re-interpretation of verses, a far cry from the orthodox interpretation before modern science.

As for Muhammad, he wasn't an illiterate. The first revelations(Qur'an 96) to him asked him to Read(Iqra). Which illiterate goes reciting to his people, "Read", whereas he cannot read? This is serious joke.

This shows your high level of ignorance... in the book of Isiah chapter 29 verse 12:
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, say ing, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

This is evidence from the Torah that came before him that he was an illiterate, You just presented a verse that you don't know it's purpose of revelation and you, think you can use the Qur'an against Islam? You think you know more than people who spend life times studying the Qur'an? If this is not hypocrisy I don't know what else to call it, you don't even know the basics of Islam.

usermane:


Alright, stop. OK? Just stop. This is more than enough interpolation to cause an Arabic reader to cringe. "Testicles" and "infancy", really? The Qur'an states it is clear and detailed. It doesn't need words in brackets to be understood.

Look at the diagram of zygote or and infant child and yell me where you find the testicles, the Quran is book that is book that will serve for therest of humanity so it's not everything that the early Muslims will be able to translate and Muhammad S.A.W will translate only as much as Allah wills. How come you don't appreciate the astronomical achievements of the Muslims that they discovered through the Quran?
You don't appreciate the optics and algebra?
You don't appreciate the use of honey as medicine?
These were discovered from the knowledge of the Qur'an and the hadith(that you reject)

do you understand the Arabic yourself? I am sure you don't.

najib632:
I know what I am saying sir, you said that you're a heterodox Muslim, that believes in the Qur'an alone and not hadith that's why you don't have sound knowledge, I am not saying I am a scholar, but Alhamdulillah I have enough to be able to clarify my points and ask relevant Questions,

أَوَلَمْ يَرَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا أَنَّ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ كَانَتَا رَتْقًا فَفَتَقْنَاهُمَا ۖ وَجَعَلْنَا مِنَ الْمَاءِ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ حَيٍّ ۖ أَفَلَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

(Sahih International)
Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?

-Sura Al-Anbiya', Ayah 30

For you not to knowing this verse shows your ignorance and rash conclusions and the hypocrisy of your love towards the Qur'an, don't be like tintinz who got misguided due to his arrogance with ignorance, seek knowledge and don't jump into conclusion a single Google search would have saved me the trouble of typing all of this. Seek knowledge from the Orthodox creed and Schools of taught, evolution is a theory that tries to make the One Who revealed the Qur'an to look imperfect. So please sir make a bit of research before answering topics like this. I am sorry if sound too harsh, but I am just being frank.

Irony.

Chapter 6: The Evolutionist Mufti

Albaqr:
This is Mufti Abu Layth al-Maliki. He talks a lot on evolution, human before human being and briefly on Adam's being created from clay.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CYLT19GX5k


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ8YbFc_emg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJe0SL67QzM

You can bypass the videos of Mufti Abu Layth that Albaqr left at the end of page 4. If you insist on watching, skip the second video and the first 60 mins of the third video. Jeez, can somebody please give Albaqr a class in video editing or referencing?

Abu Layth says Qur'an support evolution, he cites 21:30 implies the common origin of all life - water. He says 23:12-13 refers to Adam placed as a drop on earth to initiate the evolution/succession chain, the khalifa(succession) mentioned in 2:30.

Say anything else? Yes, he said the one soul(7:189) all life emerged from is feminine, definitely not the soul of Adam. And speculated that such a soul might be a sort of progenitor to biogenesis. He states nothing about the Qur'anic verses emphasizing clay.

But the Qur'an verses I've cited previously imply creation, not evolution. Here are more verses to ponder;

5:110:

Behold! will say God, “O Jesus, Behold! I strengthened you with Spirit, the Holy, you spoke to the Mankind in the cradle and walking. And behold! you created from the clay like shape of the bird with My will, but you blew in her, & she was a bird with My will.

By divine guidance, Jesus created a living bird from an inanimate clay statue. This isn't gradual evolution, this is instant creation. It is what makes sense if we regard God as the scriptures state - all perfect, all intelligent and all powerful.

22:5-7:
O people, if you are in doubt as to the resurrection, then We have created you from dust, then from a drop, then from a clot, then from a lump, so that We make it clear to you. That is because God gives life to the dead, and He is capable of all things. And God will resurrect those who are in the graves.

See? Qur'an likens our creation to eventual recreation from our graves, from dust on the last day. It would be strange to assume each human being will begin to re-evolve from stage to stage to emerge in their ultimate human form before meeting the Lord.