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More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by Gbawe: 10:31am On Aug 16, 2010 |
http://www.vanguardngr.com/2010/08/16/fg-draws-down-3bn-from-excess-crude-account/ FG draws down $3bn from Excess Crude Account[/b]Cover Stories Aug 16, 2010 |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by desgiezd(m): 10:42am On Aug 16, 2010 |
They have systematically siphoned this money from USD2 billion to just $460 million and yet we cant see what they have done with this money. Now that the money is finished, the governors will stop their incessant agitations for sharing of excess crude money. Hard days lay ahead if there is another economic meltdown because there is nothing to fall back upon. |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by Gbawe: 10:49am On Aug 16, 2010 |
I have said it before. I will amuse myself as Jonathan , to even his staunchest supporters , reveals that he is nothing but a corrupt and opportunist do-or-die politician no different to those who have ruined Nigeria. Some may write that we hate Jonathan but no one can discount the opinion of financial experts over the profligately irresponsible spending of the Jonathan Government. Jonathan is now the "yafun yafun" President with the way he is fast draining the coffers of Nigeria . http://www.businessdayonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13726:elected-politicians-put-nigeria-at-risk-as-20bn-oil-fund-is-squandered&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=18 Elected politicians put Nigeria at risk as $20bn oil fund is squandered Monday, 16 August 2010 01:19 Onyinye Nwachukwu |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by Nobody: 12:20pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
waiting for the johnny johnny brigade to come and defend their illustrious son how dare that rag called a newspaper spread such dubious and unfounded allegations |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by desgiezd(m): 12:25pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
oyb: What allegations? |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by Gbawe: 12:27pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
desgiezd: I think he is being sarcastic as per the standard response from Beaf after any negative revelation about Jonathan's poor leadership. |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by paddylo1(m): 12:29pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
Ok lets go. . .what exactly are u guys accusing Jonathan of doing let me get this right. . .anybody care to answer? |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by monkeyleg: 12:32pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
Beaf is waiting for presidential orders. You guys should relax |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by paddylo1(m): 12:36pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
@Gbawe and others Jonathan has proposed the set up of a Sovereign wealth fund. .$1billion of this money was withdrawn for that purpose Now this $20billion u talk of is from 2007 till now. . well the blame rests on yaradua,and the world financial crises. However even if u look at it. . its about $6billion a yr shared btw the 36states and FCT in 3.5yrs So go to the states and ask them what they did with it. . Am sure states like Lagos,Akwa ibom and co have done well with the dough other Governors might have done poorly. . . . I dont buy this arguement of waste,because to start with,the ECA has no basis in law The states can rightfully demand that the money is theirs and they even took OBJ to court Now this is why Jonathan has made the SWF a priority,to be backed by law that way in the future,no-one can withdraw money anyhow so tell me again what the problem is? |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by Gbawe: 12:47pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
oyb: It will be particularly difficult for them to defend Jonathan on this occasion. That Jonathan is amassing campaign funds, to the detriment of National coffers , is now obvious to all but the most die-hard fan of Mr.President. This is a scam no one can defend . It is cynical looting by Jonathan and his camp/advisors. OBJ raided the PTDF (along with everything else that could be looted) , sacked Okonjo-Iweala and conducted himself in an entirely reckless manner just to gain funds for an unpopular third term Project . Jonathan is doing precisely the same and intelligent Nigerians are seeing through him. The excess crude account is , more or less, a national "rainy day"account. Taking $1 billion out of it to go and deposit in , essentially, another identical and newly created "rainy day account" that is only different to the excess crude account in name alone ( i.e "Sovereign weath fund" is the clearest sign that this is campaign funds for "do-or-die" Jonathan . What , at this moment , is the rush to establish savings (Sovereign Wealth Fund) that serves essentially the same purpose as the excess crude account? It the Sovereign Wealth fund is yet to take off, why take out $1 billion from the excess crude account to be deposited in the Sovereign Wealth fund "later" ? The corrupt and desperate actions of Jonathan are becoming more obvious as Mr. President gets more agitated by the realisation , as many of us correctedly Predicted , that he can only buy , and not win, next Years general election. Also, one billion dollars was taken from the Account and set aside for the proposed Sovereign Wealth Fund pending when the Fund would take off |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by naso2(m): 12:52pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
Gbawe again Bismark rewane (BJ) is an authority in matters like this, and in your article he has said there is nothing wrong in the release of such funds. So wetin u dey talk? |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by Gbawe: 1:05pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
paddy_lo: My Brother , I never "talked" of $20 billion . It is the report that mentions $20 billion and even then a minimally educated person reading the article can see the article does not try and blame Jonathan for the depletion of the entire $20 billions . Nontheless , world financial experts are right to question how Jonathan has , more or less, profligately depleted the rainy day funds that was especially useful in keeping Nigeria running recently at a time where economic uncertainty still reigns and the Global financial crisis should , realistically , still be a powerful warning to sensible nations of the usefulness of reserve funds !!!!. I dont buy this arguement of waste,because to start with,the ECA has no basis in law I am no lawyer but I believe that the same can be done with the Excess Crude Account to nullify the need for an entirely new fund that serves the same purpose. It is the same way Jonathan's purchase of new Planes appear reckless when Aviation experts posit that faults to any of the existing planes can be fixed especially as the Presidential fleet is essentially still new and adequate . |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by paddylo1(m): 1:05pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
It will be particularly difficult for them to defend Jonathan on this occasion. That Jonathan is amassing campaign funds, to the detriment of National coffers , is now obvious to all but the most die-hard fan of Mr.President. U are talking out of both sides of the mouth .If OBJ looted all that can be looted. . how come we are talking of $20billion that he left behind for Yar adua?. . There is no scam here. .i have already told u that there is no law backing the ECA. . .u cannot take states money from them by force. .it is illegal. .If u want to do it u must do it the right way The excess crude account is , more or less, a national "rainy day"account. Taking $1 billion out of it to go and deposit in , essentially, another identical and newly created "rainy day account" that is only different to the excess crude account in name alone ( i.e "Sovereign weath fund" is the clearest sign that this is campaign funds for "do-or-die" Jonathan . What , at this moment , is the rush to establish savings (Sovereign Wealth Fund) that serves essentially the same purpose as the excess crude account? The SWF is not the same thing as ECA. .shows your level of reasoning,every oil producing/resource rich nation on earth has a SWF. . The fund is invested mostly overseas but also in the host country The are strict laws governing such a fund,about disbursements and the like so for u to compare the ECA which is a political arrange ment that can be scrapped anytime,to a SWF is the height of mischief The $1BILLION SET-ASIDE IS ACTUALLY VERY GOOD. . .That way no more money will be shared by anybody and once the law is passed by the NASS. . the fund can start up and running What u dont seem to realize is that this money belongs to the state,local GOVts and the Federal GOVT If the states,demand for the money. . .u have no right to stop them |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by naso2(m): 1:13pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
Gbawe, abeg hope say u know the difference between our foreign reserve and dis ECA fund sha? i just dey ask o no vex |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by paddylo1(m): 1:16pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
My Brother , I never "talked" of $20 billion . It is the report that mentions $20 billion and even then a minimally educated person reading the article can see the article does not try and blame Jonathan for the depletion of the entire $20 billions . When jonathan came in the fund pretty much held only about $4.6billion in it. . .so the blame should go to yar adua I am no lawyer but I believe that the same can be done with the Excess Crude Account to nullify the need for an entirely new fund that serves the same purpose. It is the same way Jonathan's purchase of new Planes appear reckless when Aviation experts posit that faults to any of the existing planes can be fixed especially as the Presidential fleet is essentially still new and adequate . Let me explain the difference btw a SWF and ECA. . . ECA is basically like a dormant savings account earning 0% interest. . .but its worse cause there is no basis for its existence in law so GOVernors rightfully,once in a while demand for their money A SWF on the other hand is like an Investment account,which allocates capital to various asset classes. .e.g,stocks,bonds,Infrastructure etc so when the SWF is set up Nigeria might find itself,buying into companies like GOOGLE,Holding Hong Kong bonds that yield 5% -6% and so on. .or an Infrastructure bond for road building in lagos so you get a return on your investment in form of dividends and interest More importantly the fund will have a solid basis in law,as the law setting it up will have to be passed by the NASS |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by Gbawe: 1:21pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
paddy_lo: Save the insult my friend . It is worthless with me. If their is money in the Coffers is that Proof that OBJ did not loot profigately ? It is your own statement , especially with what Nigerians witnessed , that sounds oxymoronic. Most Nigerians , with no memory deficit or selective amnesia , all know the looting that went on under OBJ even if our former President left money in the national coffers . Must I remind you that OBJ was actually convicted of the misuse of PTDF (Petroleum trust development fund)?. Looting money and leaviny money in the till are not mutually exclusive considerations and things we were all privy to can suddenly not be false just because you want it to be so. The SWF is not the same thing as ECA. .shows your level of reasoning,every oil producing/resource rich nation on earth has a SWF. . It is not me alone doing the comparison . It is local and International economic experts. Their is no need for the setting up of the SWF ,in the opinion of many experts, if the correct 'tweaks' can be carried out to the ECA. |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by paddylo1(m): 1:23pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
na_so: Yea we still have about $40billion in external CBN reserves,separate from this Excess crude Account That money cannot be touched by anybody,because the CBN by law is mandated to manage it However this Excess crude was a political arrangement set up by OBJ,it was a good idea Its just that most of the Governors were ignorant and greedy and didnt want a more stringent account in the form of a SWF Hopefully this SWF will be set up,and if the FG must use only the federal GOVTs share of the ECA so be it we cant be held hostage by visionless Governors |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by paddylo1(m): 1:30pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
If their is money in the Coffers is that Proof that OBJ did not loot profigately ? Yes it is proof,because u made the absurd claim that OBJ looted all that can be looted. .yet this same OBJ left behind $20billion in Excess crude plus another $58BILLION in Central bank reserves. . . It is not me alone doing the comparison . It is local and International economic experts. Their is no need for the setting up of the SWF ,in the opinion of many experts, if the correct 'tweaks' can be carried out to the ECA. well obviously the so-called experts are clueless about Nigeria. . . because other experts in the past have called for the scrapping of excess crude and replacement with an account backed by law like the SWF. . . . I dont know what part of ECA is not backed by law u dont understand According to Nigerias Constitution.all money should be paid into the federation account and shared by the 3tiers of GOVT there is no provision for Excess crude savings or whatever If a single local GOVT takes u to court,u have to share that money out. . . so again. . .if u or other clueless so-called experts dont understand that. . its for u to go and find out why it is so |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by Gbawe: 2:07pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
http://www.businessdayonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12839:is-sovereign-wealth-fund-good-for-nigeria-2-&catid=96:columnists&Itemid=350
|
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by paddylo1(m): 2:42pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
[b]@Gbawe That article u posted is basically calling for what u are railing against on here It seems u dont know where u stand. . . The article calls for the money to be spent not saved. . .well the money is being spent now,so u should be happy The man in the articlee says he doesnt want centralization of Nigerian economy.well that is why the money is shared among all 3 tiers of GOVT to spend as they please. . . . He wants all oil money spent today,with no future savings/investment for the generations unborn dude is asking for small GOVT on one hand,but at the same time asking GOVT to dream big and spend oil money. . probably on white elephant projects that will lead to nowhere what a clueless person u choose to quote Finally the article specifically states that a SWF is better than the ECA. . but u want to ditch the SWF and keep the ECA,so u quote an article that wants to ditch both and instead spend the whole money today,to support your false claim that Jonathan is spending the whole money today. . phew. . .quite convoluted logic by u [/b] |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by jensinmi(m): 3:07pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
[size=16pt]PDP. . . SHARE THE MONEY!!!![/size] |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by Beaf: 3:21pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
IBB recently oiled the hands of some editors with a cool 10 million each to publish tripe such as this. . . And as usual, Gbawe falls head first for it. Shame! |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by Beaf: 3:24pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
[size=21pt] Re-emphasis.[/size] paddy_lo: |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by naso2(m): 3:53pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
Beaf: Do not write Gbawe off just yet o. The guy dey google seriously now to use anoda article support him stance, or na to open anoda thread on Jonathan. |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by Gbawe: 4:04pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
paddy_lo: You are speaking about yourself. The article clearly negates everything you have said in stipulating that an SWF , given the current situation of Nigeria and the specific needs that should be addressed as per logical and heirarchical placement of priorities, is not what is currently required. I then don't see how you can write as if this article, at anytime , validate anything you have written. First, I argued that SWF is still about smoothening of oil revenues over periods of low and high oil prices. As good as that sounds, it simply means that it is not different from ECA in that essential principle. So, it is just a policy to smoothen oil revenue and not a policy to create another source of revenue. It fails to address two key fundamental economic problems that we have - reducing poverty and helping diversify the Nigerian economy from the dependence on oil. [b]In this context, the SWF is at best a distraction.[/b] You then say that ; The article calls for the money to be spent not saved. . .well the money is being spent now,so u should be happy I think it is clear to any one who has read the article that this Nigerian economist , at no time, suggests that money be spent on insensitive and unneccessary things , as per National priority, like Airplanes for the President and an expensive national Birthday celebration . It is disingenous to pretend as if you do not understand what is being written in preference for different interpretation of what is being stated I also argued that there is simply no evidence that the SWF could add up significantly over time. The forces that depleted the ECA fund so quickly are still very much with us. These forces are those of waste, government inefficiency, corruption and big government. And thirdly, I am vehemently against any policy that centralizes the Nigerian economy further. The centralization of the federation account that has helped cripple the Nigerian economy, as the bedrock of big government and corruption is still the same apparatus for a SWF. The structure failed in the past, is failing and will continue to fail I think it is clear this economist is saying that , specifically viewed from Nigeria's unique perspective , an SWF is actually not needed . I will add to his reasoning to state that it has been introduced for selfish personal agenda that becomes more obvious every day. The man in the articlee I did not put you down as someone keen to ridicule otherwise intelligent folks because their stance is different to yours . This man is not "clueless" at all and everything he writes ties up issues , taking into account Nigeria's unique needs and current situation , far more coherently than any arguement you have given. When you write that : Finally the article specifically states that a SWF is better than the ECA. . but u want to ditch the SWF and keep the ECA,so u quote an article that wants to ditch both and instead spend the whole money today,to support your false claim that Jonathan is spending the whole money today. . phew. . .quite convoluted logic by u You are , once again , being economical with the truth and deliberately disingenous to suit your arguement. You will surely have noted where the author states , perhap unique to Nigeria , that : First, I argued that SWF is still about smoothening of oil revenues over periods of low and high oil prices. As good as that sounds, it simply means that it is not different from ECA in that essential principle. So, it is just a policy to smoothen oil revenue and not a policy to create another source of revenue. The Author may admit that a SWF is intrinsically better than an ECF but he arques consistently and logically that this is not true in Nigeria's case . We cannot simply adopt things that work well elsewhere without considering what may work best for us considering the direction we must head in as per our unique situation allied with[b] our specific and peculiar challenges others do not face [/b] . Those that disagree with my analysis could give the examples of Brazil and Korea, perhaps two of the biggest economies with a sovereign fund. But these two economies are more matured than Nigeria, and the level of accommodation of capital for these economies cannot be compared to that of Nigeria. And they make more revenue that can be used for capital more than us. In Nigeria, everywhere you look; there is a need for an increase in the deployment of capital. The economy is capable of accommodating more capital than we make from oil. The problem has always been waste. So, even though the SWF seeks to minimize the waste, it is still a policy of minimization of waste and not a policy of eradicating the sources of waste and corruption in government. You have you views and I have mine. Suffice to say that , from what I have read , many economists and analyst , speaking specifically on the case of Nigeria , have posited that for where we need to head , nationally , and given the problems we are grappling with , an SWF could compounding our problems (perhaps so some can cynically profit ) rather than alleviate it . |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by Gbawe: 4:10pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
na_so: Na-so , read the articule supplied by the economist and judge for youself. The article , if pro IBB, would be far more scathing of Jonathan . Instead it is balanced with a relevant and pertinent take on the creation of a Sovereign Wealth fund in direct relation to Nigeria in terms of our peculiar challenges and current situation. He did not state that an SWF , per se , is bad or undesirable. |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by Beaf: 4:19pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
Gbawe: This is a very sad joke. What do you as a person understand the Sovereign Wealth Fund (SWF) to be? Do you mean the average slowpoke can write an article and you would sit down to accept the morons views as authoritative? Thats downright shameful Gbawe! Why don't you go find out the immensely powerful vehicle the Sovereign Wealth Fund is? We sit here all the time critising Nigeria for not doing anything with our oil money. But here is a guy that is creating all the instruments (legal and procedural) for our oil money to be a vehicle for investment abroad and locally, guarded by iron laws. Just a few benefits; [list] [li]Nigeria will be able to build assets, eg refineries in foreign lands[/li] [li]Nigeria will be able to compete in international financial markets[/li] [li]Nigeria will be able to go after and purchase lucrative foreign businesses, just as the Arabs do[/li] [li]Nigeria will have a modern vehicle to invest and industrialise with our oil money like Dubai is doing[/li] [/list] Lets not be blinded by ignorance. . . .What was your complaint again? |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by Beaf: 4:26pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
[size=14pt]This from the home page of Dubai's sovereign wealth fund;[/size] Investment Corporation of Dubai is the investment arm of The Government of Dubai. Throughout our existence we have nurtured the growth and development of Dubai. We have achieved this through strategic investments in companies that have global excellence and that have defined the industrial, retail and financial landscape of Dubai. http://www.icd.gov.ae/ Which person on Earth thinks Dubai has got it wrong? They were affected by the downturn, but they are already developed and are weathering it just fine. Nigeria has nothing to show for our oil money, despite being the Worlds number 8 producer. So a guy sits down to do something about it and the Gbawe's begin barking at him. |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by naso2(m): 5:02pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
Gbawe: Yes the writer seem to be saying that SWF might end up a mere distraction , especially when we consider the corrupt tendencies of govt and the general lack of fiscal discipline. He thinks govt at the centre should be pruned down and diversification of the economy be more aggressively pursued. For the purpose of this argument and the original intent of the thread, you seem to have called up an article that does not encourage SWF but encourages spending of ECA . You see wetin over sense dey do you? . Your best bet would have been to start another thread seperately to disparage SWF, but the rush to nail GEJ did not allow you see that. If one goes back to the fundamental purpose of ECA and the guiding laws as to how and when it is to be spent/shared, it is too hasty to say GEJ has done anything wrong here. I believe however the spending of ECA or proper implementation of SWF is no magic portion for poor budgeting and lack of development plans. |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by naso2(m): 5:14pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
I think this is the first part of the article. FYA Gbawe.
|
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by Nobody: 7:31pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
GEJ and Abacha have every thing in common just that Abacha is smarter |
Re: More Billions Leave Nigeria's Crude Account ! by Beaf: 7:39pm On Aug 16, 2010 |
ferari90: Now, this what I call a daft contribution. It is the equivalent of throwing abuse at passers by without reason. Very agricultural contribution. |
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