Maximus69:
Hmmm, All what you said aren't written in clear terms so there is no way something could be revealed HALF WAY by the one who promised to reveal it to the WISE! Daniel 12:10

Maximus69:

What if i tell you the meaning from 1~ 4 of the riders?
Well the colours of the horses has different meanings,

(1) First WHITE horse rider is Jesus Christ, he was GIVEN a crown symbolising his role as the king of God's kingdom[Psalms 110:1 compared to Revelations 12:7-8] in heaven and drove Satan and his demons out of heaven. His followers started preaching and teach throughout the earth as the conquest for the newly installed King!

Maximus69:

(2) After Jesus drove Satan and his demons out of heaven, they were cast to the earth, most people were possessed, they all feel like gaining political power to control the earth hence the first world war. So the SCARLET colour symbolises blood! Rev 6:3-4

Maximus69:

(3) The black horse symbolises spiritual darkness,after the wars there was FAMINE as many nations producing food abandoned mass production of food,their workers taken to the war front and farmlands were devastated, leading to food shortages BUT makeups and alcoholic beverages was not affected! Rev 6:5-6

Maximus69:

(4) After the wars, due to bombs,chemical weapons, hunger and genocides in many places, dead bodies NOT buried led to PESTILENSES,many people DIED and were given MASS burial! Rev 6:7-8
All these happened around 1914 - 1919!

Maximus69:
The WOMAN clothed with the SUN. Means God's heavenly organization of loyal angels, one of them must come down to redeem mankind since NO human born with Adamic sin qualifies to redeem us! Psalm 49:7-9
The angels must produce one person to come and do the assignment, Michael[Jesus] volunteered{Daniel 12:1 compared to Isaiah 11:10} himself due to his love for humans out of all what God used him to create! Proverbs 8:31
So the WOMAN [God's loyal angels] gave birth to a SON[Michael who volunteered himself] her clothing with the SUN means she is not from the earth but from a powerful source[heaven]

Maximus69:
Wild BEAST having SEVEN heads and TEN horns!
Of course it is human governments but the SEVEN heads means (1) Egypt (2) Assyria (3) Babylon (4) Persia (5) Greece (6) Rome (7) England and America
The TEN horns means three of this governments like Egypt, Persian and England had allies with whom they conquered the world to dominate others.
For instance Persia formed alliance with Medes[Daniel 5:28] to conquer ancient Babylon, while England formed alliance with US to dominate the world today!
Those are the three HEADS having double horns so with there double horns that makes TEN horns in total!
As for the SEA out of which it came!
You got that right!
It means faithless people throughout human history, God refers to them as WICKED! Isaiah 57:20

Maximus69:
Harlot!
This is the same as Babylon the Great. It is the world empire of false religion with the Catholic Church as their mother!
This religion gave birth to so many other false religious groups starting from Islam to any of the religious groups still sharing all or part of the beliefs of the Catholics.
The name MYSTERY means all her children are confused with their beliefs so if you scrutinize them to know how come they're all having different doctrines despite believing in certain fundamental ideologies of Catholics like all good people goes to heaven and bad goes to hell fire, they will tell you 'God is a MYSTERY'!
So they hold unto different philosophies yet they're all like friends except just one GROUP that all of them hates vehemently!
The name BABYLON THE GREAT means all their religious ideas came from ancient pagan ideologies of Babylon. So all of them almost believe the same thing regarding the condition of the dead, destiny and so on!
The name prostitute means they're all attached to the world's political system, for instance NONE of them noticed that National Anthem was first sang in ancient Babylon under king Nebuchadnezzar [Daniel 3:1-7]before all other world leaders formed their own to segregate one race from another! And they all used animals as their cote of arm connotes their reverence to BEASTS!

shadeyinka:

Your theory would have be worth a while if only the Roman Catholic Church is the one ruling Governments in this world.

Almost all big national powers are secular. I.S.A. has even abolished prayers in school. Britain don't even pray anymore. China and Russia aren't even slightly Christian.

The Vatican is the only political foothold of the Catholic church. Hence, your theory is very very wrong as the tribulation has not even started.

Please don't forget that the Jehovah's Witness is ALSO an offshoot of the Protestant church which had its root in the Catholic church.
You can try to dispute this with facts if you can?

Maximus69:
Good morning Sir, i'm going to somewhere very important today so i woke very early.
I said earlier that 'you may not agree with the interpretation' but that is the full meaning of it. God will not reveal sacreds secret in symbols and promise to open it's seal for the understanding at a future time only to grant his servants HALF interpretation of it!
So since you can't explain it IN FULL and you are disputing the full meaning simply because you don't like the source, i'll just leave you with your HALF interpretation.
God only accepts worship that is PURE, true worshipers will be going their ways peacefully and blissfully practicing pure worship, those whose worship is not accepted will continue to agitate furiously against them because they will feel the uniqueness of pure worship but we will never be shaken by their threat!

Maximus69:

You are ECWA, your friend is BAPTIST, some are DEEPERLIFE, some REDEEM, some MFM, some CHOSEN, some CATHOLICS, some ANGLICAN, some EMBASSY, many are white garment churches and so on. All of you claims to be worshiping the same God but you will pass many of these religious centers only to worship with the ECWA alone!
If someone ask you WHY? You will say 'that is your own calling' whereas the mode of worship totally differs.
Ask a deeper or redeem member about Cele/C&S they will tell you 'white garment churches aren't true Christians' so by the end of it all you all concludes that your God is a MYSTERY!
We are Jehovah's Witnesses! Our God forbids interfaith in worship so if your mode of worship does not TOTALLY conform to our rules YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY WORSHIP OUR OWN GOD!
But that doesn't mean we hate you or plan to hurt you, it simply means OUR GOD DIFFERS FROM YOURS. So stop the hatred you're harboring in your heart against us, it is not compulsory we worship the same way!

Maximus69:

If you feel like Jehovah's Witnesses are good people, well it is the evidence that God's holy spirit permeates our assembly, we will never accept MYSTERY because our own God has granted us the wisdom to explain everything about him but you may not agree with us.
So keep your faith if you feel your worship is acceptable before your God, many people also claim that today yet they're rebelling against their religious leaders, hence they became FUGITIVES[wanderers whose mind can't rest where they worship] so they're no more confident of their place of worship as their leaders have betrayed their trust!
Ours can never be like that because Jehovah's organization is a confirmed place of pure worship! Please don't hate us to the point of hurting us. REMEMBER Cain and Abel! Genesis
4:1-8
Goodbye!

shadeyinka:

Interestingly, my first exposure to the study of Eschatology was from the Jehovah's witness. I can't remember exactly what the name of the book was but I read and studied it with excitement then. At that time, I didn't even know there were major differences between what a Christian believed from that a Jehovah's Witness believed. That was my foundational introduction into the study of Revelation and Daniel. I remember there was a particular Bible study I lead in which the core of what I presented was the JWs views.

As I matured in knowledge and faith, I saw that many of these doctrines were baseless and claims what is not. I have like the Berran Christian come to understand without interpolation of the scriptures with my personal conjectures. So what you consider as not FULL is staying within what the scriptures has revealed. QED!
You are the one who is to answer questions based on the interpolations you have inserted. After all, there is no USA and Britain, 1914 - 1919 exist in the bible. Don't forget that some of your projections with date settings have failed miserably.


Interestingly, there is not a single church denomination mentioned by you that I have not worshipped. The church of God in the bible times were named by cities/town. I I told you I am not a denominationalist. There is no church denomination in heaven. Anyone who is born again is my Brother . The fact that I put on my shoes during worship and a C&S Christian does not doesn't make me a better or less Christian.

Unfortunately, you JWs are part of the several denominations of the Church in the world. The Brotherhood of the Cross and Star are almost exactly like you. A kettle calling the frying pan Black


Anyone who hates a fellow human being is not of Christ. There is however no law against hating SIN and sources of DECEPTION in the church (Wolves in Sheep's clothing)
Even though, it's not yet my turn to ask questions based on what had been shared, there are some questions you'll need to answer from some of the issues you have raised.

Do you still have further questions or you want me to proceed with mine?

Your "Goodbye!" sound like you are terminating the conversation. What's your true position?

Maximus69:
Go back and complete your study in OUR book or erase everything we teach!
There is no virtuous repute in someone who learns something from a teacher, couldn't get a better teacher and yet contradicting the teacher who opened his eyes to knowledge!
We are Jehovah's Witnesses, our teaching is ONE globally[ Romans 15:5-6 ,16:17 ,1Corinthians 1:10, 2Corinthians 13:11, Ephesians 4:3, Philippians 2:2] and if you can't get a better group teaching the TRUTH which is NOT two but ONE, i can't understand why you are opposing Jehovah's Witnesses!
If you don't trust your religious leaders, that is not our cut of tea!
Our targets are 'the lost sheep of the house of Israel' meaning those who are humble and willing to learn NOT those who don't want any standard!
Goodbye Mr shadeyinka, God bless you!

shadeyinka:


On terms and conditions, I have answered you. But I don't want you to put YOUR words into my mouth.

Let's start from your 144,000 that you claim will be Born Again hence in the Kingdom of God.

Before we start, are you looking at that scripture Literally or Figuratively?

shadeyinka:

What a height of deceit, and falsehood from one who claims to be a Disciple. We know them by their fruit: the disciple of him who is the father of falsehood, false doctrine and lies!

John 8:44: "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Let me Remind you incase you have forgotten!



I asked you a question! You said you'll prefer I answer yours first. You asked your questions and I answered you.

THEN YOU FLED after your DECEIT!
What a "Christlike" character!

Your lies are so convenient for you hence you don't like questioning: for it will reveal the darkness in you. Anyone who has replaced the Holy Spirit with the guidance of an organisation will surely behave like this: not a surprise at all.

Maximus69:
Deceit?
OK Sir, i'm satisfied with my so called DECEIT.
Jesus never said we should continue to pester people that are full of deceit, so if you're sure i'm full of deceit and of the devil there is no reason to continue discussing WITH THE DEVIL!
That is why the so called devil is waving you Goodbye, if i were you i'll be happy that Satan is on the run!
God bless you Sir!

shadeyinka:

Satan is actually on the RUN!

shadeyinka:



I I told you I am not a denominationalist.
. The fact that I put on my shoes during worship and a C&S Christian does not doesn't make me a better or less Christian.

[b]Unfortunately, you JWs are part of the several denominations of the Church in the world.
]

Janosky:


What is your denomination ?

"The fact that I put on my shoes during worship", where?
in what Church ?

alBHAGDADI:


I told you he would flee.


Even his brother Janosky aka OneJ is viewing the thread but unable to contribute. I hope he sincerely sees the deceit displayed by him so far.

shadeyinka:

Satan is actually on the RUN!

Janosky:


What is your denomination ?

"The fact that I put on my shoes during worship", where?
in what Church ?

Maximus69:
Halleluyah simbarry!

shadeyinka:


Luk 10:18:
"And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."

shadeyinka:

Of cause. God deliberatly planned everything from the beginning.

But did God plan it to give some people bad destiny? No!
2Pet 3:9:
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

Volition must be tested! We choose by our freewill either to be dependent on God or to be independent from Him.

God planted the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil in the garden (it wasn't satan that planted it). Why would God plant that which will cause sorrow to man in the garden?

The bible says God made ALL things for His pleasure Rev4:11

Human beings are made to be Gods children. The earth is just a place of selection (goats Vs sheep/ tare Vs wheat). God gave us Volition/freewill to choose either to be dependent on Him or to be independent of Him.

Mat 25:32-34:
"And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"

If it (the kingdom and separation) was prepared from the foundation of the world, certainly God deliberatly planned everything.

shadeyinka:

Ok! I guess my questions raised up some issue to think about. That's ok.

Now my first question:
Jesus said:
John 3:3: "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Also reinforced by Peter
1Pet 1:23 : "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever."

I understand that your church teach that only 144,000 people can be born again (I hope I am correct). So,
1. Are your Born Again?
2. How did you get Born Again?

Barristter07:

Who decides who is a born again ? Personal decision or God

Explain John 3:8 as it relate to the subject above

Barristter07:


That nullifies freewill, God definitely decides from the very beginning who is a sheep and goat . comprehende/Agree ?

shadeyinka:



I I told you I am not a denominationalist.

[b]Unfortunately, you JWs are part of the several denominations of the Church in the world.

shadeyinka:

I am ECWA!

.... In my church, we put on shoes.

shadeyinka:

Your explanation was what I commented upon as making no sense NOT your personality!


QUESTION REPOSTED
[author=shadeyinka post=78405555]



ANYWAYS, NEXT QUESTION!


LAKE OF FIRE
From the following scriptures:
Rev 20:10:
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever"
Rev 19:20:
"And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."
Rev 20:14:
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

Rev 20:15:
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."




If the devil, the beast and false prophet are tormented for ever and ever in the lake of fire, what happens to everyone else whose name is not found in the book of life?


Please note the scripture:

John 5:29: "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."[/quotte]

The Question Rephrased:
The bible clearly states that the devil , the beast and the false prophet are tormented forever and ever.

The Bible clearly states that anyone whose name is NOT in the book of life is thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Are those people annihilated or tormented with the devil?
Recall that there is certainly a resurection of the wicked as well as the resurection of the righteous.

Jozzy4:


Is the beast a literal beast ?

Janosky:


Congrats bro.
Your intent was to discredit Jehovah's witnesses but you unwittingly exposed your LIE on this public forum.

You are a denominationalist, a member of the ECWA denomination.

The early Christians in the book of Acts were an organization of true Christians (all churches in different cities ) ,they followed directives of the governing body of apostles and elders in Jerusalem.
(Acts 15:1-32).

They had no Daddy GO and pastorpreneurs , or clergy - laity dichotomy

shadeyinka:

I am ECWA!
C&S churches do not allow putting on of shoes or sandals inside their church. In my church, we put on shoes.
This doesn't make either of us inferior or superior to the other as far as Christ is concerned