kuntash:

to add to ^^^^

I just swapped my engine last week,

reason,

1- I have noticed the throttle body actuator isnt working well, (if you remove the hose connected to it linking the regeneration vacuum , nothing is noticed) whence with the idea I had with other cars of its kind, you would notice a strong air sucked in by the actuator, the cost of another actuator was from 8k or more, labour, N500 naira to 1.5k

2- I thought I would be able to gain more power and gain on gas, cos I did notice some leaks around the gasket although the quantity was insignificant - but I suspected it could result to loss of pressure and thus power.

3- The engine was relatively cheap, and quite neat and had pressure as confirmed by the mechanic, (Engine was 35k)


Putting all these together, I had to go for the replacement, since I would be getting an engine that has not been worked on, the engine has been running for 8-days now, so far so good? I have to confess, I didnt really notice that much difference in the power I wanted especially when AC is ON, but the actuator worked, no oil leaks, infact, I am still running with the engine oil that was in it, I had a thermostat with 71/degC, in my old engine so I used it, I have noticed the temp rarely gets to 80DegC, meanwhile the new engine had a rating of 87degC, is anything wrong with this?, should I return it to the original status of 87?,

Also, how can I test that the regeneration vacuum is working with the actuator, I expected a "tick - tick or vibrating sound from that small vacuum"

thanks

Running an MB engine at 71degC is injustice to the engine. You will wear your piston rings, the car wouldn't run well. The normal engine temperature is 87deg. The principle that damaged the old engine is what you should be expecting in the new if you do not put in the specified heat rating. Besides, you are wasting your fuel plus, it can't burn the fuel completely.

I am totally unaware of your engine or that model.

What do you mean by regeneration vacuum? I am thinking you are referring to a crankcase ventilation valve. If not, be a little specific. But first above all, get your engine temperature right.

In my spare time, I will go through the sheets of your vehicle model.

aduje:

House Pls help.

I drive a Benz 190 and it has been faithful to me. A friend said it is possible to adjust the injection system for lower fuel economy. How possible is this and what is the likely technical/performance implication of such re-work or adjustment.

You cannot improve on your fuel economy by doing the above stated. You can only achieve a better gas economy by properly tuning your vehicle. You cannot improve fuel management in a Mercedes. The engineers gave it at the maximum stoichiometry possible and if there was a better way, you should have gotten it. Cars have limits and the limits to your vehicle was given to you. You cannot improve on that engine. That is the best you can get.

kuntash:

Thanks for your response Trac.

- I have a C-200 Elegance.
-If u read some of my posts earlier, I have stated that I am kinda new to Benz even though I appreciate the ride.
- you sound quite technical, this is good, however, there could be other persons like me who would appreciate you juxtapose your MB terms with pics. e.g the Wahler and Behr thermostats.

- I was also hoping to read a line where u might refer me to a MB professional that understands the workings of a w202 of my year, I don't compromise quality repairs, if I cant afford it, I sell or dump the car until I am ready, the fact that a professional is being sought doesn't mean one should pay at a cut-throat price.

- Just as I explained in my last post, the module that kicks the fan and regulates its speed is right in front of the driver's side of the front Tyre. about 5 separate wires socket hooking onto the module.

In my own case, I didnt get the car as new or even a first time user in Naija, and according to my mechanic, its had an history of over-heating, and the gasket I am sure has been tampered with even as explained by my mechanic, I am seeing the car as an experiment, and so far, I am impressed even though experiments could be expensive sometimes

Kuntash,


MB made 27 different C200 engines. If I remember clearly, the trims for the market at that time was Classic, Espirit, Sport and Avantgarde. I do remember the Elegance and believe it is between the Sport and Avantgarde or after Avantgarde but it tells nothing about an engine but trinkets. I will take your word as gas with no force injection, thus narrowing it to 3 model engines. I do hope you did a like-for-like engine transplant.

I'm giving back this feedback because the "literature" to these engines differ and you need not bother yourself with what you do not have.

Look through the car's tattoo. You should see some numbers. Check the engine, there should be the major assembly number as well. If not, post a VIN and I will look it all up for you.

I've sought after the number of the service mechanic for you. It will be posted after I receive it.

Thanks a lot Trac. First I would replace d thermostat, I would take a pic of d vacuum 2morrow and post here. I really appreciate your valued contribution to dis thread.

Nice thread. I have a 2008 C300 live. Asking N5.8M

I has a C240 2002 W/203 benz. Each time i start it, it shows 3 malfunctions, One states that "substitute lamp is on", the second states "change lamps" and the third states " SOS, visit workshop", Pls can anyone out there tell me what to do, I wud be very grateful for your assistance, And please can anyone also tell me where i can find a real benz mechanic in Abuja, Nigeria?,

kuntash:

Thanks a lot Trac. First I would replace d thermostat, I would take a pic of d vacuum 2morrow and post here. I really appreciate your valued contribution to dis thread.

It's all good.

prinsbasy:

I has a C240 2002 W/203 benz. Each time i start it, it shows 3 malfunctions, One states that "substitute lamp is on", the second states "change lamps" and the third states " SOS, visit workshop", Pls can anyone out there tell me what to do, I wud be very grateful for your assistance, And please can anyone also tell me where i can find a real benz mechanic in Abuja, Nigeria?,

SOS is teleaid. You can forget that or have someone deactivate it for you. One of your bulbs is burnt. Encompass your vehicle. If all is well, it may be a faulty harness somewhere. Somebody is going to have to troubleshoot it for you. Anything can throw a warning light. The error is "Substitute light is on, change lamps."

Tanks brov. Gonna have it fixed asap,

Hello Trac,,, below pics are the connecting hose of the actuator body and the vacuum I referred to as the regeneration valve, and the pics of the entire engine , engine is as is unwashed,

vacuum

more

the engine itself

the connection of the vacuum I am really concerned about now has one end from the actuator body, where air is sucked by the actuator and its other end connects to the fuel tank, maybe to contain vapour leak or so, I do not know for sure, but this is a possibility considering the piping

That's a crankcase ventilation valve otherwise known as an breather. Volvo calls it a flame trap. If there is no leak anywhere within the tube lines, then the fuel vapour recovey module is bad. I don't know its composition to determine if you can salvage it by cleaning. It may have oil in it. You may have to purchase another since there is an electrical connector to it.

The consequences would be a rough operation (vehicle will run rough). It will eventually throw a CEL (check engine light). It's almost 4.45AM and can't further this. I'll go through the operations suite however. If there is literature worth knowing, I'll attach it or paste it.

Do you have an idea what engine it is? I'm totally unaware of it. It looks like an M104 from the block and I don't know its engine management system. I'd assume its HFM-SEFI

tanks for your response Trac, its an M111 engine, W202, I would appreciate if you can help me check whether that vacuum does work with the aircondition, u r dead right on the rough idling it, it even stalls when the gear is engaged or the AC is on, this is more evident when the engine has not heated up.

I googled what you called it and came up with this below, could this be my case?


THE BASIC OPERATION OF A PCV VALVE
(POSITIVE CRANKCASE VENTILATION)

A PCV valve is one of the first pollution control devices. It allows crankcase fumes to be burned in the combustion process. Engine vacuum pulls airborne pollutants from the engine valve cover to the carburetor or fuel injection system through a rubber hose. The PCV valve is a small plastic or metal cylinder housing with a valve & spring inside. When the engine is running, engine vacuum draws engine fumes to the air intake system. Engine vacuum is greatest at an idle.

A PCV valve that sticks could cause an engine to:

1. idle rough
2. have poor acceleration
3. form sludge
4. cause poor fuel economy


source: http://www.getaboutauto.com/articles/TheBasicOperationOfAPCVVALVEPositiveCrankcaseVentilation.html

kuntash:

tanks for your response Trac,  its an M111 engine, W202, I would appreciate if you can help me check whether that vacuum does work with the aircondition,  u r dead right on the rough idling it,  it even stalls when the gear is engaged or the AC is on,  this is more evident when the engine has not heated up.

A better start.  The information I have attached is for one of the 27 engines under the model 200 engines.  In the first place, have the proper thermostat installed.  One thing you should note about Mercedes and the other genre that falls within the Benz suffix is that your vehicle collects statistics right from the time you crank the engine and matches it with the predetermined stats with a tolerable margin of error.  When you fall out tolerance, issues begin. You might mess with your short term fuel trim (STFM) and long term fuel trim (LTFM) because engine will never get to operating temperature, therefore resulting to poor stoichiometry

In this case, the A/C is a separate issue.  It could be a simple leak on one of the vacuum lines or because something is out of specification and the fail safe kicked in. 

It seems you have a bad air meter or mass air-flow meter. If the vehicle is stalling at mid-warm up, you should try disconnecting the sensor that plugs to this air meter and see if you can have it stay on without stalling. If it does, you need to change this. A note of caution - driveability will be poor and loads of fuel will be burnt withi short trips. MAF basically converts air to electric current as signal to the engine.

kuntash:

I googled what you called it and came up with this below,  could this be my case?


THE BASIC OPERATION OF A PCV VALVE
(POSITIVE CRANKCASE VENTILATION)

A PCV valve is one of the first pollution control devices.  It allows crankcase fumes to be burned in the combustion process.  Engine vacuum pulls airborne pollutants from the engine valve cover to the carburetor or fuel injection system through a rubber hose.  The PCV valve is a small plastic or metal cylinder housing with a valve & spring inside. When the engine is running, engine vacuum draws engine fumes to the air intake system.  Engine vacuum is greatest at an idle.

A PCV valve that sticks could cause an engine to:

1.  idle rough
2.  have poor acceleration                 
3.  form sludge                 
4. cause poor fuel economy


source: http://www.getaboutauto.com/articles/TheBasicOperationOfAPCVVALVEPositiveCrankcaseVentilation.html

To be honest, I had doubts if you'd comprehend the first page of the attachment since its senseless to the unsavvy but you have started.  The literature MB put is a bit awry but you already know the bulk and the idea behind it.  I do believe it is a crankcase ventilation valve and not a positive crankcase (not much of a difference in the two).  The first image that you look at is at idle to mid-partial.  The second is at partial to full throttle. 

The second page is for replacing your thermostat.  If you can turn a wrench, don't pay anyone to do it for you.  A bit of coolant will spill but it isn't a thing to deter you from doing it.

thanks Trac for d doc,

Trac:


To be honest, I had doubts if you'd comprehend the first page of the attachment since its senseless to the unsavvy but you have started. 

u r right about this.

I dont seem to know where to find the air mass meter in my engine model, I see this device in some other engines attached in line with the air intake chamber, but in my engine model, its not so as you can see from the pic.

I would like to totally agree with you on the temperature required for optimum engine performance, because the car works and moves better when on traffic @ temp above 80degC. ,  When I change the thermostat I would give u update.

That valve I showed in that pic was termed regeneration valve on MB forum (MBWorld.org), I dont know what its really called, just as I explained, I dont think that vacuum is working or perhaps power is not reaching it, I still feel strongly that if all is well with that vacuum, it might just resolve my puzzle, because when the hose to it is removed, the engine rpm moves up and the engine sound increases,

Hi Trac n all,  in a bid to solving this irregular rpm nightmare @ idle,  I have gone thru some responses online on how the regeneration valve works and its purpose.

here,

The valve pulses 6/7 BPM so that when it is activated, the engine does not get a large gulp of intake air that would be more than the engine could handle all at once without effecting Engine Management controls, [ ie, the ECU would read it as a lean condition vac leak b/c this air is unmetered intake air supply] , the pulsing gets rid of that problem by letting a little in at each pulse.

Every time it pulses , it opens and closes, it does this few times a sec [ htz].
so the flow is actually controlled as to not allow a big gulp of canister vapors all at once. It only does this when the ECU sends a signal to do so.

source:- http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?p=1563128

I just cut the responses with much meaning ,  I would appreciate if anyone could explain further, 

remember its a benz forum,  lest I 4get Trac, where u able to get the contact details of the mechanic in Lagos?

You may be looking at the problem on your throttle body.
Look at those vaccum hose for oil(there should be none.
The stains on your throttle body is suspicious, remove the air duct and see how dirty your throttle body is.

If its dirty as I suspect, it might affect your idle and throttle response; clean with TB cleaner.

If there is oil in those vaccum hose, you may have a bad pcv/ccv valve depending on what the engine uses

The valve gets change every couple of years a small plastic ~$3 and throttle body gets cleaned too(normal maintenance)

kuntash:

thanks Trac for d doc,

u r right about this.

I dont seem to know where to find the air mass meter in my engine model, I see this device in some other engines attached in line with the air intake chamber, but in my engine model, its not so as you can see from the pic.

I would like to totally agree with you on the temperature required for optimum engine performance, because the car works and moves better when on traffic @ temp above 80degC. ,  When I change the thermostat I would give u update.

That valve I showed in that pic was termed regeneration valve on MB forum (MBWorld.org), I dont know what its really called, just as I explained, I dont think that vacuum is working or perhaps power is not reaching it, I still feel strongly that if all is well with that vacuum, it might just resolve my puzzle, because when the hose to it is removed, the engine rpm moves up and the engine sound increases, 

I am confusing you here.  You have been right.  The first and second image is the PCV and not MAF.  I did not explain the MAF sensors.  It's MB's definition of crankcase venitation in their technical documentation.  It isn't comprehension friendly, but you have an idea.  I think I am looking at it but some Benzes have it vertically south along side with the radiator.  I am not sure. 

Maybe you are right about the regeneration valve thing. It looks like a PCV to me. My MB operations and repair doumentation has nothing by name of regeneration valve but crankcase ventilation or egr valve. I have done some googling and I am confused too.

Your MAF for sure is bad as far as I am concerned.  Just buy another.  It has to be Bosch.   In addition to that, change the plugs.  You will have to use copper plus and the hot range ones not the cold.  You are wasting your time with anything else.

kuntash:

Hi Trac n all,  in a bid to solving this irregular rpm nightmare @ idle,  I have gone thru some responses online on how the regeneration valve works and its purpose.

here,

The valve pulses 6/7 BPM so that when it is activated, the engine does not get a large gulp of intake air that would be more than the engine could handle all at once without effecting Engine Management controls, [ ie, the ECU would read it as a lean condition vac leak b/c this air is unmetered intake air supply] , the pulsing gets rid of that problem by letting a little in at each pulse.

Every time it pulses , it opens and closes, it does this few times a sec [ htz].
so the flow is actually controlled as to not allow a big gulp of canister vapors all at once. It only does this when the ECU sends a signal to do so.

source:- http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?p=1563128

I just cut the responses with much meaning ,  I would appreciate if anyone could explain further, 

remember its a benz forum,  lest I 4get Trac, where u able to get the contact details of the mechanic in Lagos?

Mercedes dropped the secondary air injection pump system (SAI) in '93 or '94 and focused on other areas to implement the function(s) that was dropped (deleted). Left to me, the crank.vent. has to do with emissions and recycling of some hydrocarbons to reduce emissions and optimise combustion. Driveability will still be poor when something is wrong your crankcase vent because something isn't right. If there are no vacuum leaks in the tubing, then replace the valve. It's a simple and inexpensive repair.

The MAF sensor converts air to current. If it's not giving the right current, a few things happen. The rpm may drop below idle momentarily and the ECU will compensate by increasing the rpm. The further the MAF is getting bad, you'd have rough and inconsistent idle. It will eventually get to the point that you wouldn't be able to tach through the rpm ranges consistently at idle. A habit of the engine stalling would begin to occur. When you unplug the sensor from the MAF unit, you'd be able to drive home. This is also a simple repair.

Change the plugs as well. You should be able to gap and change your plugs if you've gone this far in troubleshooting your vehicle. A clean surrounding, a set of tools including a 5/8inch plug socket, remove the battery terminal and engine must be stone cold when you are unplugging lest you spoil the engine block.

, or a fuel vapour recovery module?

Does it tick?

Re: MAF

It isn't termed MAF but Air Meter Sensor. Same thing, different names.

Some MB models don't have Air Meters. I hope I am right with what I highlighted on your picture. I can't see it clearly.

The attachment has the two set-ups for the 200 engine series. Look carefully, you should discern two exploded compositions. One to your very left (from the Y-axis yielding to the negative Z-axis) and the other from the negative Z point of direction. Both start with the number 5. The component 5 is the Air Mass Meter (or MAF in your own terms). You either have the compostion to your left (the vertical setup that is south with the radiator) or the one by the side of the engine block.

I believe yours is the setup to the right. Let me know if that is right. The part would be a hollow cylinder with an electrical socket and when you remove it, a side should be wire-guazed.

@Kuntash


I can't come to a conclusion concerning the regeneration thing. I don't believe people are fools either. I have search but it isn't the deal. The only thing regeneration is the Regeneration Fuel Vapour Recovery and it's all pointing to the location you have shown. To reason things out, PCV's don't have sensors hooked to them. My PCV experiences has not been with a Mercedes.

I'm interested to know what it is also. There are interestingly smart people in this forum. They'll stumble this thread soon. Let us know how everything turns out. For the meantime, replace your air-meter and your plugs. Change your thermostat and be sure to use hot plugs. If all the symptoms you have said aren't eliminated, take it to someone you believe can zero-in on what's wrong.

Trac:


Some MB models don't have Air Meters. I hope I am right with what I highlighted on your picture. I can't see it clearly.

if that is a fact, I am sure my engine model belongs to this category. unless otherwise its cloned with the throttle body.

about PCV or regeneration valve,, the hose end connects to a charcoal canister near the fuel tank, I really wish to know what it does and how it operates, I agree with the earlier posts I copied from the URL attached, its like a vacuum that opens and allow fuel vapour to enter the engine via that inlet on the throttle body, and it does this at intervals to balance load or smthn.
As at now I cant get a pulse from this device while engine is working.

thanks for ur response ,


I ve not had time to clean up the engine - change oil and plugs (if I get a good one), put back the original thermostat. when I do hopefully by the weekend, I would update this forum

thanks

You have a Hot Film Air Mass Sequential EFI (HFM SEFI).  You have an air meter sensor.  Take a closer picture of the area that I highlighted and take a snapshot directly over. 

On the E, I read the tattoo on the fore-panel and came across two unknowns.  The very unknown that I then identified on-site was what I would call a PCV with wires.  In my case, it is right behind the left headlight.

It is colloquial to call it a regenerative valve.  On the emissions blueprint tattooed on the panel, it is identified as a Purge Valve.  The other unknown is the Check Valve and I did not bother figuring what that is. 

I was able to find it and attach it for you consumption.  This is for your model.  There is nothing more said besides what you see in the attachment.  That is because it is a quick-fix kind of repair.

Thanks alot Trac and Sultaan, so far so good I have done the following,

- replaced the thermostat to its original, ,  87 deg-C
- replaced the oil and filter
- cleaned the throttle body with the spray cleaner

the plugs loked very good and no issues,

WHAT HAPPENED AFTER ^^^

the RPM moved up to 1.2k,  had to readjust the module at the actuator to its original state, cos it was increased when I noticed the engine wasnt running well

I also noticed quicker response as I drive

The RPM doesnt drag down that much again even on load,

feel a little relieved,,, but one more thing TRAC,  PLEASE WHERE IS TERMINAL 87 FEEDING THE PCV 

maybe this might just help further if it that PCV works



why I am bothered with all these       simple! , I believe an engine can work the way it was designed to perform optimally!

kuntash:


feel a little relieved,,, but one more thing TRAC,  PLEASE WHERE IS TERMINAL 87 FEEDING THE PCV 

maybe this might just help further if it that PCV works



why I am bothered with all these       simple!      , I believe an engine can work the way it was designed to perform optimally!

Purge valve not PCV.  At the top of the valve itself, you can see the some kind or a switch.  That is where it is where power feeds the valve and statistics are collected. 

I believe your purge valve is good.  If that valve was bad, it would be ticking.  Well, maybe not all the time.  You can test it using a multimeter.  I don't know the tables for current flows and what output should be.  In my case, I simply just replace it. 

kuntash:


why I am bothered with all these       simple! , I believe an engine can work the way it was designed to perform optimally!

I do a lot of preventive maintenance and I replace many things irregardless (especially suspension components). I'm very particular about everything. A new car for a person with poor maintenance culture does him little. The thing with many is that they expect to have a car and only do oil changes, brake pad and tires. Anything outside of this becomes an issue. Some people expect their tires to last 100,000 miles

Trac:

Some people expect their tires to last 100,000 miles

I would test the wires feeding the valve to confirm current gets there, if it does, I would end my quest on this issue for now , Just on d basis of ur statement that if it ticks, it means it could be faulty, pls correct me if I am wrong. I have swapped d valve with another, but same scenario, NO tick.
Thanks all the same. I really do appreciate.

kuntash:



I would test the wires feeding the valve to confirm current gets there, if it does, I would end my quest on this issue for now , Just on d basis of your statement that if it ticks, it means it could be faulty, pls correct me if I am wrong. I have swapped d valve with another, but same scenario, NO tick.
Thanks all the same. I really do appreciate.

You are right. If it ticks, then it's bad. This is assuming the Benz logo is on it. Non-genuine may fail differently. It's close to chatter but not as loud. From my conclusion, you don't have a problem with it. Save yourself your money and return what you purchased.