Well after all said and seen i will personally stand a grand dat juju does exist buuuut its only effective on d believers of it ,as a young child i witnessed several years of d so called AGEMO a particular festival in i-ode where its usually practised d rules says no female be it young or old,bay, infant,toddler as long as d person is a female cant see it, but i personally saw dis rubbish and hid d secret from my mum due to d fact dat many have seen it and have died mysteriously after. but my stand is dat its solely depend on individual belief because ite sheer devilish magic. there re some mysteries behind human existence which d scientist demswlves cant explain,.ALSO WHO SAYS WHITE PPL DONT BELIEVE IN JUJU? i can say it wif my mouth wide open dat they practice more dan d blacks its just too prominent here in africa because of the level of education of ppl involved and d ppl practising it back here.pls if u wanna confirm dis go to www.datingtips.com,THERE U WILL SEE A AN ASTROLOGER WIF FREE CONSULTATION ON U. ITS USUALLY LOCATED AT D TOP RIGHT OF DIS SITE AFTER IT MUST HAVE OPENED THEN FILL IN ANY FORM RE ASKED TO FILL DEN U WILL B TOLD HOW AND WHERE U HAV BEEN LIVING UR LIFE BY WHITE ASTROLOGER WHO USES CRYSTAL BALL TO CHECK O OUT. u may think dis is mere scientific but different approac hes re used to perform juju be it leaves ,herbs, or shrubbs even crystal ball,

Mr Philosopher go to Enugu and they will show you a Rain Makers. They will stand right in front of you and make rain that will beat you and your phylosophycal pant.
Engugu is nt very far. Remember to go with ur Prof. Big head. They will equaly comand it to stop so, u dont have to say it was luck.

I have no experience with juju but I do know that some of what they claim to be magic can be scientifically explained.

A juju man is called an herbalist; someone that know about herbals. Well, isn’t most herbs the source of western medicine? If a person, herbalist or otherwise, knows the necessary herbs to put you in a trance or get you to hallucinate, he will.

I think we need to differentiate between juju that works based on physical contact that requires a person to come in-contact with something laced and one that works regardless of where the victim is.

In other words, can a juju man in Nigeria cast a spell or whatever else on someone in the US? This should be the real question!

factbox:

Well after all said and seen i will personally stand a grand dat juju does exist buuuut its only effective on d believers of it ,as a young child i witnessed several years of d so called AGEMO a particular festival in i-ode where its usually practised d rules says no female be it young or old,bay, infant,toddler as long as d person is a female cant see it, but i personally saw dis rubbish and hid d secret from my mum due to d fact dat many have seen it and have died mysteriously after. but my stand is dat its solely depend on individual belief because ite sheer devilish magic. there re some mysteries behind human existence which d scientist demswlves cant explain,.ALSO WHO SAYS WHITE PPL DONT BELIEVE IN JUJU? i can say it wif my mouth wide open dat they practice more dan d blacks its just too prominent here in africa because of the level of education of ppl involved and d ppl practising it back here.pls if u wanna confirm dis go to www.datingtips.com,THERE U WILL SEE A AN ASTROLOGER WIF FREE CONSULTATION ON U. ITS USUALLY LOCATED AT D TOP RIGHT OF DIS SITE AFTER IT MUST HAVE OPENED THEN FILL IN ANY FORM RE ASKED TO FILL DEN U WILL B TOLD HOW AND WHERE U HAV BEEN LIVING your LIFE BY WHITE ASTROLOGER WHO USES CRYSTAL BALL TO CHECK O OUT. u may think dis is mere scientific but different approac hes re used to perform juju be it leaves ,herbs, or shrubbs even crystal ball,

Now I know you are delusional, if you want me to astound you with what I know of you, just say yes. I will ask you 5 questions, not personal? and then Iwill PM my reading. Nothing Juju just simple reasoning and observations.

kenis:

Mr Philosopher go to Enugu and they will show you a Rain Makers. They will stand right in front of you and make rain that will beat you and your phylosophycal pant.
Engugu is nt very far. Remember to go with your Prof. Big head. They will equaly comand it to stop so, u don't have to say it was luck.

Provide evidence and I will acknowledge this.

Do you know what the western world will pay for a man that can control the weather The Brits would pay for him not to make it rain, woo hoo year round sun!

If you have never been down with malaria, you can't say how malaria is like or know what it does to the body. Its the same with juju. If e never do u, u no fit say how juju be like. We can only narrate what we have seen/ heard coz most of us have not personally experienced juju. So those who are condemning those who are 'narrating' here coz they don't have first hand experience SHOULD PLEASE SHUT UP. My personal close up with juju is this: There is a mad woman who lives in a mud hut a few blocks aways from my grandparent's house in the village. The woman use to jog around saying all sort of imaginary things to imaginary beings- like she would call an imaginary child or servant and say she's going to visit someone in the river. Well, last month, a neighbour's daughter who's about 26 years came visiting from asaba. While i was discussing with her, the mad woman jogged by saying somethings that irked the girl who ran into their kitchen, armed herself with fire wood in one hand and cutlass in the other hand and dealt the mad woman some blows. She was quickly restrained by her brothers who were present. Then suddenly, the girl began to act strangely. She had to be rushed to a priestess who shaved her hair and after some days, she became normal. During festivals young men strapped with juju would be shot with barreta, hacked with cutlass and "e no go enter". Even the white people do magic plenty. The difference between african magic & western magic is that western magic is documented while african magic is not. If you never see western magic, go watch "mind freak" where the magician (engels) suspended volunteers in the air

DonOvero:

Provide evidence and I will acknowledge this.

Do you know what the western world will pay for a man that can control the weather The Brits would pay for him not to make it rain, woo hoo year round sun!

You got it wrong! Hard core Magic doesn't work that way. Well we're in the dry season so wait till next year. if you really want to see rain makers at work, there's a festival held early august when it rains endlessly in ezionum. Go there and you'll see rain makers at work shoving heavy clouds away from the sky with palm fronds

Half of the stuff I've read here can be easily explained. Unable to move or having the feeling that u're been suffocated in ur sleep no be Juju. I've had this constantly and still experience it till today. It's called sleep paralysis and unfortunately there's no known cause for it.
Flame eaters or whatever they are called do not equal Juju. There's the saying that humans only use 10% of there brain power. Maybe they have learned to tap up to 15% of that brain power .

There's a technique called biofeedback (google it) we discussed this during one of my psychology courses. Essentially it's a technique where u learn to control specific body functions example: controlling pain, regulating heart rates, etc. The fact is that this is something that is taught, learnt and practiced over a long period to master it.

the point is that all this stuff that been cited as evidence as Juju is quite explainable but we have a problem of not wanting to understand anything in this country and instantly labeling it.

As a Chinese philosopher Lao Tzu puts it "Man's enemies are not demons, but human beings like himself". In essence. I'm more worried about the armed robbers, kidnappers, naija police, ill wishers than any Juju.

tensor777:

Well the bolded is not evidence of juju as there could be a million and one reasons why they were not injured. You are just wasting your time narrating these yarns to  Western educated sceptics.

I'm western educated, with an MBA. Still there are many documented occurrences of African Juju or unexplainable phenomena in American business literature. One of the most famous was made into a movie the "Ghost and the darkness" where Lions deliberately sought to hinder the expansion of the railways. Many animal physiologist till this day can not explain the behaviour or these lions, as they targeted and killed specific people who were integral to the success of the project. Also documented was eye witness testimony (from western white engineers) of the supernatural like circumstances that happend before the attacks took place. These actual lions (After they were finally killed) are preserved at the Chicago museum for the world to see.
Scientific minds will be the first to acknowledge that we do not have answers for every and all occurrences in nature. Sometimes the truth is stranger than fictions. Just cause the dog is color blind and can't see color, does not mean that rainbows don't exist. it might argue its whole life till the death that there is nothing like a rainbow, but we know better. Likewise the dogs see a whole world that we will never know existed. However there are some that have found ways to cross between this worlds.

Im sorry, but when you say that somone is wasting their time "narrating these yarns to Western educated sceptics" That places me in that category, and I dont think its a waste of time, I alway welcome a healty debate. And yes I was born and raised in England by Nigerian parents, who retired and returned back to Nigeria. Like I said I was a skeptic till I had pins and Nails mysteriously pumped into me, how do you explain the physical pain and the actual manifestation of bones, nails and pins the came out during the bath Oh or the fact that the pain left immidieatly (within 30mins) after the bath? Then again we Nigerians are good cons, maybe the whole thing was planned as soon as they saw me at the festival. Just dont understand the sharp excrutiating pain underneth my armpit. Im just saying if it was a con, then it was a dam pretty good one.

[b][size=18pt]Hmmm, very sad! But, it's 'Poverty', 'Jealousy' and 'Envy' that are to blame!

Please, don't because of these evils and stop visiting the land of your heritage. But I must warn, when you go please, please don't accept food or drink from anyone except the family and don't flaunt it. I mean, keep those Armani's, those Jimmy Choo shoes/handbags and jewellery tucked away somewhere and act like the locals etc.

Just lie low, wherever you are, that's the trick. It's like a one eyed man in the land of the blind - there are many poor people hanging around to flaunt about all our world acquisitions and a wise person, would tread carefully if living among this group.

It doesn't really matter where you're coming from because, if you're their target and not knowing you're a target obviously, they'd get you.  Not long ago, an in-law - married to my first cousin was poisoned in Nigeria.  He'd never left Nigeria before and had 2 young sons under 5 yrs old and a wife to care for - just like that they killed him.  Ten years gone, and we all are still asking, why? There seem to be no reason to justify his demise, that way.

He came home and started vomiting and gushing out foam plus alcohol from his mouth (suggesting his drinking pals, knew what happened to him) as you can see, don't trust anybody and you need to avoid certain friends, too because, poverty, jealousy and envy are cousins - you can't point at one without noticing the other.  

Doesn't mean you shouldn't say 'Hello' but don't get too close because, over familiarity can bring insult/abuse
obviously, people wants to know what makes you tick therefore, bent on asking and seeking 'personal information' about you.  

I advise, just don't answer to anything personal and if they persist just say to them 'Please, ask me questions I ask you, ok!' and you would see they'd stop and make sure you too, don't ask personal questions about them, period because, what you don't know won't hurt your ears, either.  

As we all know from personal questions, people not only analyse and categorise others but also, put them in their little pigeon holes i.e. how we perceive them e.g. rich, poor, humble, OTT, loud, attention seeker etc these are how we all categorise individuals. Thus, people who are interested in you whether as a rival, enemy, friend, competitor etc will pigeon hole you in any of these, depending on what evil, wickedness or good intentions they're nursing about.

For these reasons, I suggest those of you raised abroad, to listen to your parents/relatives because, speaking and understanding our language does not mean you understand all the 'workings' of our culture no, you don't.

Again, you may be pushed to apply Western ideas in an African environment/settings when you'd been denied justice in what you believe in - boy, that can ruin you by making you a target. So, watch before you leap because, that happy looking Auntie, that outgoing Uncle and that gorgeous friend of yours might not seem what they portray, for jealousy, envy and wickedness might be lurking behind those beautiful smiles!  Danger!!! 

So, tread carefully, when you're on that soil and it's much safer to mingle with your kind e.g. rich people mingle with the rich, the Royal Family mingle with Royals and Upper Classes and NOT the commoners'.  They may marry their daughters (i.e. the women marrying up) but they don't mingle with the in-laws.

So apply, the same principle in your interactions with people because, pockets of jealousy/envy exists everywhere as poverty and sufferings can lead some to wicked acts and those living in the West have their own negative experiences to testify about especially, in Black communities.

And, when you live among our own people, jealousy and envy is unavoidable, just move away to an area you won't encounter or have much contact with them that's the only solution. So if you've got it, tread carefully wherever you are![/size][/b]

DonOvero

I'v gone through all the comments on these thread and what i understood about you is that, (1st) you don't believe in GOD! (2nd) You grew up in UK, with western mentality so there's nothin on earth that someone will tell you about juju for you to believe that it does exist! (3rd) UNTIL CONVINCED (just like what you said on one of your post) you can NEVER believe that anything like juju exist!

My brother, tell you what, you can keep it to yourself that juju doesn't exist, and let those that believes that it does exist be. That's all i have to say, but anytime you feel like visitin Nigeria, mind those around you before you make such comment.  

I can only laugh at those that are stil bringin out more logic to convince you that juju do exist !!!

HmmmmmHmmmmmm he he ho, what people dont know they should not open their wide mouth and talk nonsense. If you dont know what juju is all about why not shout your mouth and stop talking nonsense. Let those who know whats up talk. Besides I dont see any wise man talking in this thread so i rest my case.

@DonOvero
I read your replies and I see you are trying too hard that there is nothing like juju etc, Some how I believe you are trying to convince yourself. My friend, there are certain things in life that has since passed the stage of arguing because they've long been settled,  eg, the Bible, the forces of evil, good, bad, juju, etc
I also live in the West (maybe longer than you) but I don’t accept everything said by the western scientist,  You know why? Cos I also read and do my own researches, watch Discovery Channel where there are so many things Western science has no answer to. So trying to answer everything with western science is rather funny as we have not only. Western Science, but Eastern Science, African Science,   There are thousands of things happening in Indian that defies western science (I watch a lot of these on discovery) Have you also heard of Ritual Killings in Africa? Well what do these people do with parts of a human bosom? Head? etc, cos it's obviously not for food,  So before you go saying what fantasy is or what it is not, I suggest you do some research on them. By the way I am a Christian and I believe very much in God almighty but there are dark forces, juju etc,  And you don’t even have to argue about people bringing or stopping Rain,  In Naija it's so common like the sight of "Big Ben"  ,  When ever you feel like traveling to Naija to see this with your own eyes holla!,   Saying the West will pay for such a feat is so way off!!!  These things are not natural, so there are laws guiding them,  Finally from your post, it shows that you know so little of the West, if not you will know they are deep into the Occult.  Have you heard of "Freemason" before?  Well it is Occultism and some of the most powerful people in the world are members including Presidents of the United States, Politicians, Musicians… So my friend do some research and understand the world you are living in…
Peace

Have lived soooo long in Nigeria and still seen no proof of juju, not one. All i see are third party accounts of spurious claims where a little digging will show the whole story of juju to be that of an ignorant person trying to explain away what he dont understand.

The case of making rain is a good example, people fix festivities in rainy season and since weather forcast is not perfect here, the rain can pour down any moment. The people will find a scapegoat and say its rainmakers that were not settled, my pal settled the rainmaker in his village and still we were drenched to our panties on his fathers burial, guess what, people came up with the story that there are other rainmakers in other villages that were not settled. How many rainmakers can one settle to ensure they stop the rain? Will come back with more examples later.

Hi all,

I cannot comment on every individual comment aimed on me but I will try one by one as I have read some truly ridiculous things on this forum.

I will start with Lenny9000.

I do not have to convince myself. I spent 2 years in Nigeria being force-fed the theory of Juju and as a child I believed it. However, once you grow up and get an education and start to reason things out, you quickly see it is nothing but superstition, passed down from generations and with each passing down getting bigger and bolder in its tales. Just because certain things cannot be explained by science you simply must not say "It cannot be explained thus it is juju, evil, a miracle(insert whatever you believe in here)" this is plain wrong, just wrong. Poor reasoning and rationale.

You say you live in the west and do not accept everything the western scientist tells you, yet, who do you think creates, produces and directs the show? You think watching the discovery is evidence of you ability to reason. This is incredulous.

My main thrust of my argument against the belief of Juju are the very ritual killings you write of-this is a direct cause of the lies perpetrated by such beliefs. Along with the uneducated, uninformed and unengaged elders, villagers thinking it serves a purpose because of this belief. The poor children on Nigeria, hell, the whole of West Africa are the recipient of the unprovoked, unwarranted and unecessary accusations from these people are the reason these children are suffering.

You say you are a christian, can you explain the points are raised in my earlier post? I see you gloss over this with the blanket, "I am a christian, I believe in God etc" God gave you a mind right? use your mind to question this.

The Occult is a tradition and practised everywhere. its existence I have never denied, it is the so -called mystical properties that I deny. Do you have proof that the free mason sacrifice children and even if they do, do you have proof that this killing confers its host mystical powers?

There is a difference between believing juju exist and believing that it works.

Before you argue points with me, please do the research, its free and it is out there if you search. Do not present points that my 13 year old niece can re-butt. as young as she is, she has already achieved more than you can by simply asking "how is this so?"

As I have said before it is always easier to believe the lie.

Next

Another one is the fallacy that you could shoot someone with a gun or cut someone with a machete and he will not die. I have one sentence for you, well the gun was not shot by me! If i shoot you, you will be very very very dead!
419 started in the olden days, those days native doctors dey chop people mugu, those days they chop your sheep and goats for one simple solution which may never work and you come back with yam and palm oil to appease the gods. Pretty village girls are accused of being witches and mammy water so the family can bring the young girl to the native doctor to live untill the spirits leave the babe. Within this time the girl is kept inside probably drugged and the witch doctor used his male "koboko" to flog the girls privates till weeks while you think she is working on the girl. If the girl gets pregnant, she will remain there and will not go back.

@ Ranoscy

I have been to Nigeria and its full of people like you who rather than search for the truth continue to remain ignorant. You have turned being unengaged to a zen like state.

Let me give you two examples of so called Juju

Sleep paralysis( there are still people in Nigeria who believe this is juju when scientific research has disproved this.

After bouts of sleep paralysis, parents elders everone was saying it is juju and they are trying to kill me. Now imagine the affect this would have on me, a 11 year old. It was scary, now what do you think would be my subconscious way of dealing with this, via dream or rather nightmare. one nightmare I had was of a woman whose face was blurred saying "you no go die? You no go die"? Obv i told this to my parents who were now further convinced that it was juju, took me to an idiot dressed in feather who promptly sacrificed a chicken, what the chicken did I do not know but the 'featherman' obv thought differently. After this killing I was assured that I was now saved. I had no more dreams and hey presto I was cursed now I was saved, and the stories go round and round.

Never mind the notion that as I was told I was saved was prob cathartic and it gave me peace of mind, see the placebo effect.

Almost ten years later, the tale from my parents to friends is now, I was under nightly attack by witchcraft as I came from London. they were jealous so every night a witch would fly to my room, sit on my chest and try to kill whilst saying "you no go die" The native doctor then confronted her and said he made her spirit enter chicken which he slaughtered and the witch was vanquished. LOL

invisible!:

Another one is the fallacy that you could shoot someone with a gun or cut someone with a machete and he will not die. I have one sentence for you, well the gun was not shot by me! If i shoot you, you will be very very very dead!
419 started in the olden days, those days native doctors dey chop people mugu, those days they chop your sheep and goats for one simple solution which may never work and you come back with yam and palm oil to appease the gods. Pretty village girls are accused of being witches and mammy water so the family can bring the young girl to the native doctor to live untill the spirits leave the babe. Within this time the girl is kept inside probably drugged and the witch doctor used his male "koboko" to flog the girls privates till weeks while you think she is working on the girl. If the girl gets pregnant, she will remain there and will not go back.

This is my point, and I am glad there are people in Nigeria who are questioning.

All this people who say they have seen people get shot yet the bullets bounce of them like rubber are either stupid or delusional.

what is more believable, that bullets bounced of human flesh or that the gun was faulty, bullets were dummy, the shooters aim was off, the tale was exaggerate.

all things being equal, the simplest explanation, no matter how improbable, is the right one. Find the simplest explanation guys, not the most complicated and exaggerated one.

opribo:

HmmmmmHmmmmmm he he ho, what people dont know they should not open their wide mouth and talk nonsense. If you dont know what juju is all about why not shout your mouth and stop talking nonsense. Let those who know whats up talk. Besides I dont see any wise man talking in this thread so i rest my case.

This one made me laugh. Talking nonsense?

Which one is more nonsense? My voice of reason, asking to be presented with evidence, offering scientific reason why some events are not due to juju, or, that men can move clouds with their hands, can float to people room and 'press' their chest, that they can control the weather, that by washing you nails can come out of your body, that bullets can bounce of your body, that slaughtering animals wards of evil spirits, that accusing children of witch craft is what causes bad luck, by praying to an invisible force he will guide you, that both Osama bin Laden and George Bush heard their respective Gods and he commanded them to wage war?

I ask you again, which is more nonsense?

When people watch magicians in naija, its due to juju and not due to mastery like the great Houdini and other circus shows. Magicians eat bottle but not the same one I broke just now with sharp jutted edges. They charm snakes and scorpion and our people attribute this to juju, and not just normal animal taming. Ignorance has been passed down many generations and it have now become established facts, people can fight and kill to defend their dead ancestors beliefs, even before superior logic. A magician claimed to cook rice and tasted same, the cooked rice came out of thin air, yet the same 'food maker' was begging people to buy his cheap drugs. Ironic.
People should just wake up and smell the 'akamu'

Tensor,

serious questions why do you find it so easy to believe in God?

Common sense says to me that if we want to postulate a deity capable of engineering all the organized complexity in the world, either instantaneously or by guiding evolution, that deity must have been vastly complex in the first place. The creationist, whether a naive Bible-thumper or an educated bishop, simply postulates an already existing being of prodigious intelligence and complexity. If we are going to allow ourselves the luxury of postulating organized complexity without offering an explanation, we might as well make a job of it and simply postulate the existence of life as we know it!

tensor777:

I'm not quite sure why you're telling me all this. There are people who use satanic powers in Africa. However this power is used to kill to steal and to destroy. That is its principal purpose. Satan himself has no free gift but operates on the principle of trade by barter.

However there is unfortunately a lot of ignorance and superstition in many parts of sub-saharan Africa which unfortunately gets handed down from generation to generation. It is this very ignorance that leads people to confuse science for juju. With such ignorance you don't have a cat in hell's chance of convincing the average Westerner about the efficacy of juju. You would just be riduculing yourself.

As for your lions in Chicago tales, no I don't believe it simply because there have never been wild lions in Chicago! Remember that that was just a film.

The TSAVO lions were killed in Africa in the 1800 and preserved by taxidermy for the world to see at the The Field Museum in Chicago