@Jesoul

JeSoul:


prayers, offerings,tithing ,vows etc.  They are based on spiritual principles

  I don't think prayer qualifies as a "tradition" no more than 'meditating on God's word' does. We're talking biblical practices/commands/directives that existed pre-Law that are still relevant today.

They are altogether part of our worship , reverence. And spiritual obligation. If you say we should not give tithes to God. What of offerings, are you saying we should never give to God again? 

Q1: Same as before, you've mentioned tithing, are there any others?

Tithing , offering, prayer, meditation. All are together . It's only God we give such to. I don't know why folks singles tithes alone out .  What about offering. What of prayers, what of worship.
 
 

As Cmanforall noted, you didn't fully answer Q2 directly, permit me to repeat it here again.

Q2: How do you differentiate btw which OT scriptures and Laws are still applicable to us?

The things that are no longer applicable to us in the law and before the law are the things that Jesus had fulfilled. But the things that goes beyond the law and are based on spiritual principles still applies to us . Even if they were part of the law. Is adultery justified now? No. Because its against the principle of love. If you want to live long,The law says to honour your father and mother. The law had been abolished but that principle still stands. Will your father now because the law is abolished? No. Because these are based on spiritual principles. That's why Paul had to emphasise it again for the ephesian church.

 Ephesians 6:2-3
2 Honour thy father and mother;( which is the first commandment with promise 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. 

Q3: What are the repercussions if a believer is lacking in any of these "deeds" you listed above?[/

1.Doing the word of God cause grace to abound .2.a Christian that disobeys the word will not be able to resist the enemy. He gives the enemy room. When the devil strikes he is unprotected. There will be absence of grace. Even if he feels he is okay at the moment . He is still ignorant of what he is losing, things could have been far better for him. And for such, when the devil jump on his case , he has no defence.

 

Both Kunle and Zikky have pointed out some problems with your quote here above, I'll paraphrase their questions/comments
[color=#990000]Q4: Heb 7 mentions tithes, but reading further down the chapter reveals that Paul dismisses the old system as "weak" and "useless". What is your response to this?

Because the old system had limitations. It was ratified by the blood of animals. But the new system is ratified by the blood of christ . We are under a New Order now.  And christ is our high priest. In this order. Men that die received tithes under levitical priest hood. But Melchizedek that took tithes from Abraham  lives .  Jesus had been made a highpriest in thesame order with melchizedek. So our tithing is recieved by a high priest with endless life in the order of melchizedek.

There was no problem with the order of Melchizedek . This man was greater than Abraham . But there was problem with levitical priesthood because of the introduction of the law. The law was not given to reveal perfection. The law was given to reveal man's sins and imperfection . So everything done under the levitical order could not make man perfect. But under the new high priest who came in the order of Melchizedek, perfection has come. Our prayer, offerings , tithes are holy before God because they are sanctified by the holy spirit. 

  You make a good but perhaps flawed point. There are many things one could cite Jesus didn't explicitly condemn but were obviously wrong. And you sort of shoot yourself in the foot when you subsequently follow the above with this bit:  Q5: You assert that tithing was a "lifestyle" for the early apostles and if there was a change then it would've been mentioned - can you prove this from the bible?

That's the point . Debate on tithing was not an issue of dispute in the early church.   And you find Paul comparing the welfare of ministers of the Gospel to the levitical system.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live[ of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. 

How did stuff and money get to the temple?  It's simple , through givings such as tithes and offerings.

Thanks for the answer, however you missed the second part of it
Q6: are these benefits available exclusively to only those who tithe?

Malachi 3 :9,10
gives clue. Grace, Windows of heavenly  ideas ,blessings and opportunities. 

 Q7: But if the church of Christ is one, and by tithing you're giving to God - not the pastor - why can't a person tithe sometimes to/at another church?

Why another church? God says to sow see to those who feed you the word. If we give tithe to God, it won't fly to heaven, it will be used in the running of the work of ministry. So logically you should do your givings in the place where you are fed. Under who you are submitted. But let me ask , why would someone want to go away from his pastor to give his tithe under another pastor? In my school days my Elder brother wanted to give me school fees with his tithe . I protested it. He should give it in his church. Some just give their tithes irreverently . To beggars, family etc.

There is an anointing upon a pastor over his congregation. Every pastor is not your pastor , every pastor is not anointed over you. You can give to other pastors seed as you are led. But not your tithe.

Joagbaje, thanks for the reply. I will be back probably next week to continue. The news of my good friend Bawo's death has rendered me totally devastated and heart-broken. I cannot post coherently right now. Thanks for your patience.

Joagbaje:

@Jesoul
They are altogether part of our worship , reverence. And spiritual obligation. If you say we should not give tithes to God. What of offerings, are you saying we should never give to God again?

Tithing , offering, prayer, meditation. All are together . It's only God we give such to. I don't know why folks singles tithes alone out .  What about offering. What of prayers, what of worship.

Redundant, a waste of space and deliberately misleading - Jesus Himself told us that when we give to the poor, we give to Him. That is REAL PRAISE and worship to God - giving not for gain but out of Godly love and thus showing the character of God, not pouring into the ocean of your bank accounts and pockets in expectation of fake harvests.

Joagbaje:

The things that are no longer applicable to us in the law and before the law are the things that Jesus had fulfilled. But the things that goes beyond the law and are based on spiritual principles still applies to us .

Like what things did Christ NOT fulfill? So is it you or Chris Yaks that is completing Christ's "unfinished work"? Soon, he'll say he was manipulated into this tummy-rot.

Joagbaje:

Even if they were part of the law. Is adultery justified now? No. Because its against the principle of love. If you want to live long,The law says to honour your father and mother. The law had been abolished but that principle still stands. Will your father now because the law is abolished? No. Because these are based on spiritual principles. That's why Paul had to emphasise it again for the ephesian church.

Ephesians 6:2-3
2 Honour thy father and mother;( which is the first commandment with promise 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

1.Doing the word of God cause grace to abound .2.a Christian that disobeys the word will not be able to resist the enemy. He gives the enemy room. When the devil strikes he is unprotected. There will be absence of grace. Even if he feels he is okay at the moment . He is still ignorant of what he is losing, things could have been far better for him. And for such, when the devil jump on his case , he has no defence.


Because the old system had limitations. It was ratified by the blood of animals. But the new system is ratified by the blood of christ . We are under a New Order now.  And christ is our high priest. In this order. Men that die received tithes under levitical priest hood. But Melchizedek that took tithes from Abraham  lives .  Jesus had been made a highpriest in thesame order with melchizedek. So our tithing is recieved by a high priest with endless life in the order of melchizedek.

Waste of space - wetin dem ask, wetin you dey answer?

Joagbaje:


There was no problem with the order of Melchizedek . This man was greater than Abraham . But there was problem with levitical priesthood because of the introduction of the law. The law was not given to reveal perfection. The law was given to reveal man's sins and imperfection . So everything done under the levitical order could not make man perfect. But under the new high priest who came in the order of Melchizedek, perfection has come. Our prayer, offerings , tithes are holy before God because they are sanctified by the holy spirit.

Basically then, Adam had "Sin" before he sinned and God was just the "puppeter" that forced him to confess/reveal it. And God deliberately stopped the perfection that was Melchizedek to throw the world into the mess it is today by introducing the Levitical to reveal sin? Seems like they use burukutu as water when making Eba or rice for you to eat.

Joagbaje:

That's the point . Debate on tithing was not an issue of dispute in the early church.   And you find Paul comparing the welfare of ministers of the Gospel to the levitical system.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live[ of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
How did stuff and money get to the temple?  It's simple , through givings such as tithes and offerings.

True ministers like the Apostles Paul and Peter gave up lives, family, business and catered to God's work. They still are in existence today - as missionaries in the Islamic and far eastern world, in villages deep in the bush, taking light into dark areas. They left their families and true Christians cater for those knowing the labor of love their otherwise bread-winners are engagned in.

On the other hand, you professional business pastors are taking your false gospel to where it came from - America, the UK and you are reaping Dollars. Your giant temples and the thrust of your understanding prove your shallowness. The difference is clear between those who "preach the Gospel of Christ" and those "who do presentations of a business gospel".

Joagbaje:

Malachi 3 :9,10
gives clue. Grace, Windows of heavenly  ideas ,blessings and opportunities.

Money, money, money - thats all that matters, ehn? Anyway, thats why you prefer to have a servant and be despised rather than honor with a hungry stomach.

Joagbaje:

Why another church? God says to sow see to those who feed you the word. If we give tithe to God, it won't fly to heaven, it will be used in the running of the work of ministry. So logically you should do your givings in the place where you are fed. Under who you are submitted. But let me ask , why would someone want to go away from his pastor to give his tithe under another pastor? In my school days my Elder brother wanted to give me school fees with his tithe . I protested it. He should give it in his church. Some just give their tithes irreverently . To beggars, family etc.

There is an anointing upon a pastor over his congregation. Every pastor is not your pastor , every pastor is not anointed over you. You can give to other pastors seed as you are led. But not your tithe.

No wonder you come here marketing CE. What you want is more customers giving their "tithe" to you. But remember - God's day will come and some "mighty" MOGs will be told "I never knew you, workers of iniquity". Your hand go fall that day

@Nuclearboy,
must you always post rubbsh
i've never read any sensible post from you

mabell:

@Nuclearboy,
must you always post rubbsh
i've never read any sensible post from you

Mabel , you get time, . What can you tell mockers of the faith? You only intercede,

Jude 1:18-19
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

@jesoul

JeSoul:

Joagbaje, thanks for the reply. I will be back probably next week to continue. The news of my good friend Bawo's death has rendered me totally devastated and heart-broken. I cannot post coherently right now. Thanks for your patience.

My condolence. . . .

@jesoul take heart
I was glad when I Came accross this post seeing it was ment to be an interview with Jo,never the less I learnt a lot from jos experience,and his post,it's obvious that some folks still turned this post into something else,but still there was enough to learn.
@Jo thanks a million hope to see you someday

@mabell:

face the issue and state where I went against God's Word

nuclearboy:

@mabell:

face the issue and state where[b] I went against God's Word[/b]

I LAFF

Jo-boy:

You thought the photo I pasted here is worth more than God? Sad (for you)

Or the other picture of financial partners, otherwise known as muguns?

You think they can stand between you and God when judgment comes? 

I pasted them here for just the one reason - so you KNOW - if nuclearboy can, with all his frailty and limitedness, show you up, imagine what God can do

this is good stuff

e36991:

If only half of it was understood

Obviously Methuselah didnt live until 969 years because of tithing

People in the know were checking on Methuselah every morning to glance whether he is still alive or not  

Methusela was the original Fela archetype

Without mincing words Methusela plainly was Anikulapo

Anikulapo literally means "One who carries death in his pocket or pouch"

More of a fact Methuselah means “When he is dead it  shall be sent (i.e. the flood)”

Apparently pandemonium will be let loose when Methuselah lets death out of his pocket or drops dead ^{Drops dead. Like the pun, huh?}

Methuselah knew about the flood. People in the know, knew it, well say 7 or 8 at least were left that knew . . .

Hidden in the above geneology is the prophecy of the flood, God's plan of redemption and gift of salvation

Adam in English means Man
Seth in English means Appointed
Enosh in English means Mortal
Kenan in English means Sorrow
Mahalalel in English means The Blessed God
Jared in English means Shall come down
Enoch in English means Teaching
Methuselah in English means His death shall bring
Lamech in English means The despairing
Noah in English means Rest, or comfort

String the names into a sentence

Man > Appointed > Mortal > Sorrow > The Blessed God > Shall come down > Teaching > His death shall bring > The despairing > Rest, or comfort

The divine prophecy: Man Appointed Mortal Sorrow. The Blessed God Shall come down Teaching. His death shall bring The despairing Rest or comfort

@Nuclearboy
with regards to the pictures you posted above, if that is really Joagbaje's church, then isn't this an invasion of privacy which is against the rules of nairaland.
but the church fine o

if this is realy Jo's church then nuclearboy needs a ban from NL,for invading privacy.

^^^
Is joagbaje now ashamed of his church?

That is an unethical criminal practice. Somebody will soon come and snap ones picture in the bathroom. Whats nairaland really turning into?

Joagbaje:

But Melchizedek that took tithes from Abraham  lives . 

What exactly are you saying here Jo?

Joagbaje:

Jesus had been made a highpriest in thesame order with melchizedek. So our tithing is recieved by a high priest with endless life in the order of melchizedek.

Oga Jo, must you twist the scriptures to prove a point  I know you desperately want to protect your chop-chop, but please stop equating Christ’s priesthood to that of Melchizedek  They are not the same and we are not under the priesthood of Melchizedek, we are under Christ priesthood. Melchizedek is now your high priest because you want to collect tithe. You should be ashamed of yourself Jo 

And don’t come back to me with the quote that Christ priest hood is in the order of Melchizedek, it’s because you deliberately refused to understand what Apostle Paul was talking about, just to satisfy your greed.

Please go back and read your bible with intent to understand and not to defraud 

I see MORONS jumping in head first (into a dry concrete pond) to complain.

When Jo stated Kunle Osobu's name publicly, was that not an invasion of privacy? When he said Kunle sells hand-outs and lives off that, you saw naught wrong with that. When he lied and said he was not a pastor and tithe-receiver but an artist, you all didn't remember he was a christian. When he twists the BiBLE into a pretzel, that's fine by you.

But when he's exposed, you crawl out the woodwork and weep. HYPOCRITES, white-washed sepulchres, descendants of the Sanhedrin, your fathers did same and what was their gain? Condemnation b4 God

I have removed the pictures ONLY because I never knew it was against forum rules. But this ought teach you that nothing is truly hidden. By the way, Wetin una see wey you dey complain? I laugh as God does, looking at the nations

nuclearboy you have been reported to the moderators here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=505782.msg7268844#msg7268844 how do you plead?

nuclearboy:

I see MORONS jumping in head first (into a dry concrete pond) to complain.

When Jo stated Kunle Osobu's name publicly, was that not an invasion of privacy? When he said Kunle sells hand-outs and lives off that, you saw naught wrong with that. When he lied and said he was not a pastor and tithe-receiver but an artist, you all didn't remember he was a christian. When he twists the BiBLE into a pretzel, that's fine by you.

But when he's exposed, you crawl out the woodwork and weep. HYPOCRITES, white-washed sepulchres, descendants of the Sanhedrin, your fathers did same and what was their gain? Condemnation b4 God

I have removed the pictures ONLY because I never knew it was against forum rules. But this ought teach you that nothing is truly hidden. By the way, Wetin una see wey you dey complain? I laugh as God does, looking at the nations

@Nuclearboy,
A forum of intellectuals like this should not be a place for people like you in the first place.
You should be ashamed of this your despicableness

^^

And what are you doing here IF you know NL ought be for intellectuals? Shouldn't you be at a motorpark with your peers/ilk playing dice or whatever hired goons without personal minds play?

@newmi
You call yourself an intellectual, yet you are not intelligent enough to know that there is no word like "despicableness" olodo buruku! No be by force to speak big grammer.

I wonder why people still dignify this dumb nuclearboy with responses. For all I care, the guy might be posting from a rehab, so why bother?

That's why I stopped posting these days. Many people lack commonsense, let alone ''spiritual sense''.

@fyneguy:

The desire of your masters is to remain applicable at all costs though they wish to reap where they didn't sow. So I do not blame you for manifesting the same - what all of you ought keep in mind remains this --> "What was hidden will be shouted on rooftops", "he who would be greatest will be the least" AND "I will say unto them - I never knew you, ye workers of iniquity". E don dey shele real life on NairaLand O.

Your spiritual sense concerns only the "god" of the physical - money! What does that tell you about your life?

Conclusion - Go find a dustbin and cast yourself there, if the dirt won't protest and move someplace else.

See what I mean!

I can't believe I used to debate with this man. I just pray your daughter's brain is not as empty. . .

By the way, COGICERO, I have responded on that thread to the accusation.

In summary, once I knew what I did was wrong (forum rules), I made a correction. If I truly wanted to be naughty, I'd have just created a dud username and used that. But I openly did it and openly repented when I found out it was wrong. If punished, no wahala. "nuclearboy2" dey there. But I wonder if/when pastor-bringmoremoney will do same and repent. And he is facing God, not Seun.

To re-iterate, as the Bible says, if the unrighteous changes his ways and becomes righteous, , And as I said, I amended my ways before Seun/NL. What is Jo doing about God? Oh, I forgot - money is his god!

KunleOshob:

@newmi
You call yourself an intellectual, yet you are not intelligent enough to know that there is no word like "despicableness" olodo buruku! No be by force to speak big grammer.

i am amazed, you don't know or have never heard a word like that
i no say you no go nursery school but i mean what about your secondary and university studies abi u just sorted all the way through.
u don fall your committee of friends hand
mr ITK, let me teach you, DESPICABLENESS :it means unworthiness by virture of lacking higher values
@ Newmi,
nice choice of word

Mabell,

Sorry ma. Kunle did not see it in the New Testament. It does not exist!

I have gone through a large chunk of this thread and my observation is that the things that separate lots of Christians are very trivial.

Truth is, from a neutral perspective, Jo Agbaje's position is hardly any different in fundamentals from that of those against his stands. Looks like everybody on here has extreme fundamental similarities- Everyone believes in Jesus, believes in giving, believes in salvation, believes in the Holy Spirit, believes in the bible as the word of God! All the fundamentals are similar!
The difference people are expressing are in the ways we apply what we believe, which in truth should hardly be a subject of contention since since God has made us Humans as versatile beings.

Let me use this analogy,

Imagine for a moment a Father with say 10 children all living in different houses. They have the opportunity to visit the father at different occasions. If you ask those Children to explain how best to relate to their Father based on their different visits, one thing is certain- They would all come up with varying suggestions. Some would have a picture on the Father as being harsh, while others would say he is the most caring. Some will say he is short while others would say he is tall, depending on their own heights. So everyone would have different perspectives based on their own personal experiences.
However, the fact that one person opinion is different from the other doesn't in anyway then mean that they have different Fathers.

That is exactly what is obvious here. We have different opinions on trivail things don't in anyway mean the other person is a falsie!!

I think Christians should start looking for ways to focus on our similarities rather than those trivials that separate us.
Jesus prayed dearly about the Unity of Christians.It is his strong desire that Christains be united.

I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

John 17

^^ Sir:

You are right (after a fashion). But please remember that Satan needs just a little poison or dilution to achieve his intents. The difference can truly seem subtle but that makes all the difference. Imagine us giving to charity and helping society. Imagine us solving the troubles of the poor in our midst. Imagine us foregoing the giant cathedrals that glorify man. Imagine the billboards that cost millions and what that money could do if applied rightly, to the down-trodden of the earth. If we actually help the poor to school, could we not be saving ourselves from future criminals or what are we breeding when children go hungry and see supposed "men of a LOVING God" living big when they can't even feed? Are we not hardening these children and telling them we AND God do not care? Do you show value to orphans by distributing food to them in pictures and in the presence of the press or are you making them a traded commodity used to hype up daft followers and claim credulity? One gives for profit and the other gives because he sees himself/mankind reflected in the needy. World of difference there, sir.

So yes, we all support giving but I ask the gifts be to those who need them and be borne out of love. The other guy wants the gifts to come to him and be borne out of the giver's asinine desire to make/demand more money from God. That is merchandising. This world has enough problems and we Christians are the ones who claim a patent on love - does love arise or manifest from manipulation and self-gain at the expense of others?

And look at the "effect" - the foot soldiers! Manipulated, tossed and turned by the whims and caprices of their masters because of their desire for "prosperity", they lose identity and end having nothing to offer - they come online to say "Wow, Librasakadanka we are moronic-idiots" and thats it. Otherwise, they are supporting another man's assertions. What manner of man has NO self - others think, judge and posit for them and all they do is raise hands and say "Yea".

Christians are "called out" of the world not meant to bind themselves to its fleeting pleasures or to become teleguided robots honoring human masters.

^^^
@nuclearboy
Brilliant summize, absolutely spot on.

@papabrowne
The so called little differences makes all the difference. There is only one true gospel, any other is false.

JeSoul:

Joagbaje, thanks for the reply. I will be back probably next week to continue. The news of my good friend Bawo's death has rendered me totally devastated and heart-broken. I cannot post coherently right now. Thanks for your patience.

At this juncture l wish to join the league of people like Joagbaje, Biox and other concerned nairalanders is sympatizing and expressing my heart felt condolence to you JeSoul for the loss and also praying that God grant you the strength to bear the loss.
Well as a note of advice l think people like our Nuclearboy, KunleOshob and others in their ranks would rather copy this good gesture rather than insisting on enjoying a worhtless continuity of meaningless and unproductive arguments which has become morethan ever increasingly unfashionable.