tewmuch

pls respect him and try not to insult.

amingafar:

These are things that ibos have to understand theres nothing personal against ibos Im just letting you know how things work

You cannot kill my father and expect me not to kill your whole family

No problem mr amingafar, the problem is OURS for not understanding you well before fighting you. This is part of why I'm here on nairaland. I'm here because I'm afraid that my people Ndigbo are clueless and don't understand you and others like you in Nigeria.

I've seem many of them trying in futility to present civilized and honorable arguments to your type.

Luckily for you, your people are already built that way -kill innocents, r, ape women, cut open pregnant women, shoot and kill innocent people.  My people are yet to digest all that and be ready for a next time,

The good news for me and my people is that we are quick learners and our culture evolve constantly.
Thanks for helping me make my case.  

Bolaji Aluko is an authority in Nigerian public commentary. Let me see how anyone will deny that Ojukwu had to defend his people when the feds provoked by firing the first shot at Garkem Cross River State. It is appalling that many who comment on the war do not even know who fired the first shot that led to the war. The question is, could Gowon have exhaused all peaceful negotiations without using force to stop Biafra from going? Why did he have to fire the first shot after thousands of Igbos have been killed supposedly in retaliation for an Igbo coup that killed few non-Igbo leaders?

Onlytruth:

No problem mr amingafar, the problem is OURS for not understanding you well before fighting you. This is part of why I'm here on nairaland. I'm here because I'm afraid that my people Ndigbo are clueless and don't understand you and others like you in Nigeria.

I've seem many of them trying in futility to present civilized and honorable arguments with your type.

Luckily for you, your people are already built that way -kill innocents, r, ape women, cut open pregnant women, shoot and kill innocent people. My people are yet to digest all that and be ready for a next time,
The good news for me and my people is that we are quick learners and our culture evolve constantly.
Thanks for helping me make my case.

amingafar:

so because the newmen were international its suppose to make a difference.

was Bello not an innocent man?
was Balewa not an innocent man?
what of akintola who did he kill ?
Okotie eboh did he murder anyone?
the killers of [size=14pt]Brigadier Ademulegun and his eight-month pregnant wife ?[/size]

you my friend are a hypocrite

TewMuch:

Lmao.oh this is crap.Very selective articles OnlyTruth.Do you support articles that feed your trollish appetite?
I have a few questions for you.Could the coup have been averted by Igbo military elders choosing a more sensible ground than exterminating their superior's and mates? Even after this coupists acted could the progrom have been averted by the Igbo military leader's taking a stand a punishing the coupist's to distance them and the Igbo from being held responsible?Even a blind man could see the progrom or a reprisal attack was inevitable.After the progrom, Ojukwu could still have negotiated something.I know you have chosen to ignore Al-harem's post written by an Ohaneze elder who clearly and intelligently states where ojukwu flawed and failed.He also stated how the casualties of that war could have been much less if Ojukwu had let go of his pride and negotiated.Don't bring selective articles here and hope people take you seriously.Ojukwu the young, inexperienced officer, who didn't have much field experience took it upon himself to be the leader of the Biafran war.What a herculean task.He also failed to listen to his elder's and voice of reason because his money was bigger than theirs.Until you accept the Ojukwu's pride was the cause of this, then you have not started the reconcilliation process.This article is an opinion, post articles of people in the thick of the war, and people that saw the horror's.Your Igbo elder's are talking, you don't want to listen.You want to keep up the Proud rubbish u have been spewing on NL, and so you look for opinionated articles.This war, progrom and everything that happened could have been averted.If Igbo leader's had the courage to stand up to Ojukwu and distance themselves from such a devilish act. You may be crying for the dead of the Biafran war, both sides had casualties as well.Be more objective and take on the other articles as well or else, this your article stands for nothing and you should also be IGNORED!

Pride was not the cause of a war that happened because a food blockade was issues a year before, Countless pogroms were committed, lagos cut of federal funding to the eastern region, an agreement of protection and fairness was rejected for the sake of ruling of a people, also the compensation of poperty and food blockage amongst other things through a confederacy which would have provided true federalism was rejected. I think that is a solid bases to believe who is trying to either wipe you out or enslave you and with extremity. Don't mistake the choice he made for pride.

Onlytruth:

No problem mr amingafar, the problem is OURS for not understanding you well before fighting you. This is part of why I'm here on nairaland. I'm here because I'm afraid that my people Ndigbo are clueless and don't understand you and others like you in Nigeria.

I've seem many of them trying in futility to present civilized and honorable arguments to your type.

Luckily for you, your people are already built that way -kill innocents, r, ape women, cut open pregnant women, shoot and kill innocent people.  My people are yet to digest all that and be ready for a next time,

The good news for me and my people is that we are quick learners and our culture evolve constantly.
Thanks for helping me make my case.  

you are not being reasonable, why did you not take into account of the leaders and their wives that died in a horrible manner.

I dont like arguing with people who are one sided

I stated that the killing of innocent was wrong on all sides

but you continue to say we northern people raped killed innocent un armed people, but you disregard the killing of

amingafar:


Bello an innocent man
was Balewa an innocent man
akintola an innocent man
Okotie eboh an innocent man
[size=14pt]Brigadier Ademulegun and his INNOCENT eight-month pregnant wife AND THE INNOCENT UNBORN CHILD SHE CARRIED[/size]

jason12345:

what amingafar is saying is reasonable. onlytruth, you have to admit that the day those leaders were killed that was the day the war started. y[b]ou would have done the same thing if zik, ojukwu and okpara were killed[/b]

If you really believe the bolded, either you are far worse than I thought (lack conscience) or you are completely clueless about Igbo mentality.

I can say without any equivocation that Igbo population would NOT have descended on innocent foreigners in their midst just to avenge the death of a politician.
The worst that can happen is we go to war (for instance if anyone touches Ojukwu today). But we would not kill innocents.  But maybe time has come for us to review that mindset.

jason12345:

what amingafar is saying is reasonable. onlytruth, you have to admit that the day those leaders were killed that was the day the war started. you would have done the same thing if zik, ojukwu and okpara were killed

Not true. Igbos would never have gone on a rampage and started committing pogroms on northerners and you know this. We've never been a people like that.

chyz:

Not true. Igbos would never have gone on a rampage and started committing pogroms on  northerners and you know this. We've never been a people like that.

Onlytruth:

If you really believe the bolded, either you are far worse than I thought (lack conscience) or you are completely clueless about Igbo mentality.

I can say without any equivocation that Igbo population would NOT have descended on innocent foreigners in their midst just to avenge the death of a politician.
The worst that can happen is we go to war (for instance if anyone touches Ojukwu today). But we would not kill innocents.  But maybe time has come for us to review that mindset.  

okay but thats because in the history of ndigbo, ndigbo has never had a king. you are individualistic which is good at times. but when you do such to the people that are VERY obedient to their leaders, then you should expect such. and you did not take into account the igbos or ijaws (as you said) that gloated at the northerns in the north after the killing.

TewMuch:

Lmao.oh this is crap.Very selective articles OnlyTruth.Do you support articles that feed your trollish appetite?
I have a few questions for you.Could the coup have been averted by Igbo military elders choosing a more sensible ground than exterminating their superior's and mates? Even after this coupists acted could the progrom have been averted by the Igbo military leader's taking a stand a punishing the coupist's to distance them and the Igbo from being held responsible?Even a blind man could see the progrom or a reprisal attack was inevitable.After the progrom, Ojukwu could still have negotiated something.I know you have chosen to ignore Al-harem's post written by an Ohaneze elder who clearly and intelligently states where ojukwu flawed and failed.He also stated how the casualties of that war could have been much less if Ojukwu had let go of his pride and negotiated.Don't bring selective articles here and hope people take you seriously.Ojukwu the young, inexperienced officer, who didn't have much field experience took it upon himself to be the leader of the Biafran war.What a herculean task.He also failed to listen to his elder's and voice of reason because his money was bigger than theirs.Until you accept the Ojukwu's pride was the cause of this, then you have not started the reconcilliation process.This article is an opinion, post articles of people in the thick of the war, and people that saw the horror's.Your Igbo elder's are talking, you don't want to listen.You want to keep up the Proud rubbish u have been spewing on NL, and so you look for opinionated articles.This war, progrom and everything that happened could have been averted.If Igbo leader's had the courage to stand up to Ojukwu and distance themselves from such a devilish act. You may be crying for the dead of the Biafran war, both sides had casualties as well.Be more objective and take on the other articles as well or else, this your article stands for nothing and you should also be IGNORED!

you are right, it is a very selective article.

chyz:

Not true. Igbos would never have gone on a rampage and started committing pogroms on  northerners and you know this. We've never been a people like that.

To think that he really believes that Igbos of the 60s could descend on unarmed neighbors for the death of Zik or Okpara or ANYONE, tells you what we are dealing with here.
To much lies have been told by elements who fought a war they had earlier called "Unjust" (Awo).

amingafar:

I dont like arguing with people who are one sided

I stated that the killing of innocent was wrong on all sides

but you continue to say we northern people despoiled killed innocent un armed people, but you disregard the killing of

I'm glad you see that the killing of innocent people are wrong. Do not mention that he doesn't believe that the killing of Brigadier and his family were wrong because it was but who killed them by the way? I honestly think you all are refutting two different things. I believe he is talking about the killing by innocent people that had nothing to do with an army on either sides and you are arguing about the killing of an army officials family by a fellow armyman. Am I right or wrong?

Onlytruth:

If you really believe the bolded, either you are far worse than I thought (lack conscience) or you are completely clueless about Igbo mentality.

I can say without any equivocation that Igbo population would NOT have descended on innocent foreigners in their midst just to avenge the death of a politician.
The worst that can happen is we go to war (for instance if anyone touches Ojukwu today). But we would not kill innocents.  But maybe time has come for us to review that mindset.  

a politcian? we are talking about a spritual leader to many in the north.

Onlytruth:

To think that he really believes that Igbos of the 60s could descend on unarmed neighbors for the death of Zik or Okpara or ANYONE, tells you what we are dealing with here.
To much lies have been told by elements who fought a war they had earlier called "Unjust" (Awo).

why don't you deal with the topic?

Who kills a pregnant woman, and her unborn child?Which type of devil's do that?And you expect if your leader's don't address the issue, it should just be put away because Igbo's have now become the God's in Nigeria?What those soldiers did was evil, period.They put the lives of their people in danger and they should be held responsible for the progrom.It seems Igbo's on NL love to shift blame.The day you start holding yourselves accountable and learning to talk and communicate with people in a civilised manner without insulting and lying.Nigeria will be a better place.Until then it will be too hot for you because people are tired of the ethnic defense of everything Igbo, Biafran lies, and lies of marginalisation.In a war their are loser's on both sides, no one is a victim here.@ Chyz, all these you are saying happened after the assasination's and the progrom.The article says the secession was the only choice Ojukwu had, I beg to differ.Negotiation is key.A good leader does his best for his people without pride because in the end he is RESPONSIBLE for their lives and their welfare.It was never supposed to be about Ojukwu but the survival and assimilation of the Igbo's back into Nigeria.He did not even negotiate a good enough package for them to return back into Nigeria.He did not wait to even see all those things implemented.Instead in the end, he took off for himself.A captain is brave enough to take a ship to sea, should it sink. He must go down with it or be the last man standing in that ship after his passengers and crew have been evacuated and their safety assured.

jason12345:

okay but thats because in the history of ndigbo, ndigbo has never had a king. you are individualistic which is good at times. but when you do such to the people that are VERY obedient to their leaders, then you should expect such. and you did not take into account the igbos or ijaws (as you said) that gloated at the northerns in the north after the killing.



you are right, it is a very selective article.

Jason what exactly are we arguing here. Individuals that gloat have nothing to do with the people that wake up in the morning, brush their teeth,put on their clothes, and walk out the door for work and/0r school. They are not in some big congregation or gang. So what exactly is the "you should have taught of, " mentality coming from? as if all of those easterners in the north new each other.

jason12345:

why don't you deal with the topic?

And what is the topic? Weren't you among those who accuse Ojukwu of launching a war he couldn't win?

The war was FORCED upon us because we wanted to part ways. It was NOT because of Ojukwu's ambitions.

If someone like Ifeanjuna or Madiebo led Biafra, you would have real reason to think like you do now.

jason12345:

why don't you deal with the topic?

i dont know whats his obsession with premier awo is he gowon or his he alaafin or ooni or oduduwa himself?

@ onlytruth and chyz

i can categorically tell you that the same thing would have happened in the west if awo was killed (unfortunately). it would be viewed as a domination act. with that said, imagine what would have been in the minds of the northerns then as their spiritual leader was killed in cold blood coupled with the gloating, the sheepism of the northern population and the lack of education back then?

TewMuch:

Who kills a pregnant woman, and her unborn child?Which type of devil's do that?And you expect if your leader's don't address the issue, it should just be put away because Igbo's have now become the God's in Nigeria?What those soldiers did was evil, period.They put the lives of their people in danger and they should be held responsible for the progrom.It seems Igbo's on NL love to shift blame.The day you start holding yourselves accountable and learning to talk and communicate with people in a civilised manner without insulting and lying.Nigeria will be a better place.Until then it will be too hot for you because people are tired of the ethnic defense of everything Igbo, Biafran lies, and lies of marginalisation.In a war their are loser's on both sides, no one is a victim here.@ Chyz, all these you are saying happened after the assasination's and the progrom.The article says the secession was the only choice Ojukwu had, I beg to differ.Negotiation is key.A good leader does his best for his people without pride because in the end he is RESPONSIBLE for their lives and their welfare.It was never supposed to be about Ojukwu but the survival and assimilation of the Igbo's back into Nigeria.He did not even negotiate a good enough package for them to return back into Nigeria.He did not wait to even see all those things implemented.Instead in the end, he took off for himself.A captain is brave enough to take a ship to sea, should it sink. He must go down with it or be the last man standing in that ship after his passengers and crew have been evacuated and their safety assured.

It seems as though you didn't read through the article. Let's break it down so that we can be sure we are understanding each other. Did ojukwu accept the Aburi Accord?

jason12345:

@ onlytruth and chyz

i can categorically tell you that the same thing would have happened in the west if awo was killed (unfortunately). it would be viewed as a domination act. with that said, imagine what would have been in the minds of the northerns then as their spiritual leader was killed in cold blood coupled with the gloating, the sheepism of the northern population and the lack of education back then?

not only Awo but alaafin

Imagine someone killing Alaafin of oyo and Awo at the same time.

chyz:

[b]Jason what exactly are we arguing here. Individuals that gloat have nothing to do with the people that wake up in the morning, brush their teeth,put on their clothes, and walk out the door for work and/0r schoo[/b]l. They are not in some big congregation or gang. So what exactly is the "you should have taught of, " mentality coming from? as if all of those easterners in the north new each other.

i know what you mean but do you think the population would have thought that way? we have to be real, if that was done anywhere else the same result would have happened. for example, when saddam was killed and the video was posted on youtube, do yoou know an american soldier was beheaded and the video was posted on youtube?.

it is normal even though i have to admit the northerners take things a step to far.

jason12345:

@ onlytruth and chyz

i can categorically tell you that the same thing would have happened in the west if awo was killed (unfortunately). it would be viewed as a domination act. with that said, imagine what would have been in the minds of the northerns then as their spiritual leader was killed in cold blood coupled with the gloating, the sheepism of the northern population and the lack of education back then?

Frankly I understand your reasoning. Unfortunately most Igbo still don't get it. You and the north share a feudalistic culture where a politician is GOD while easterners see it oppositely: different culture and value system. Which is why we wanted to secede!
How can you share a country with so much dissimilarity of cultures?

I kill one of your politicians (for whatever reason), you wipe out my town.
You kill one of my politicians (for whatever reasons), I go about my normal business.

Can't you see CLEAR difference? How can we share a country then, since politics must happen and politicians will always be killed.?
What happens when next they kill your GOD?  

Onlytruth:

Frankly I understand your reasoning. Unfortunately most Igbo still don't get it. You and the north share a feudalistic culture where a politician is GOD while easterners see it oppositely: different culture and value system. Which is why we wanted to secede!
How can you share a country with so much dissimilarity of cultures?

I kill one of your politicians (for whatever reason), you wipe out my town.
You kill one of my politicians (for whatever reasons), I go about my normal business.

Can't you see CLEAR difference? How can we share a country then, since politics must happen and politicians will always be killed.?
What happens when next they kill your GOD?

stop saying polticians wer are talking of BELLO

jason12345:

@ onlytruth and chyz

i can categorically tell you that the same thing would have happened in the west if awo was killed (unfortunately). it would be viewed as a domination act. with that said, imagine what would have been in the minds of the northerns then as their spiritual leader was killed in cold blood coupled with the gloating, the sheepism of the northern population and the lack of education back then?

That is not the issue at hand. We are talking about the pogroms of innocent people not what wouldn't happened if this or that. It seems as if you are trying to justify evil. And please don't drag the yoruba or awolowo into it because that is not the discussion. Also just to make sure we are on the same page, what month was Ahmedu Bello killed in 1966 and what month did the pogrom start?

amingafar:

stop saying polticians wer are talking of BELLO

So Bello is GOD? He is not a politician? Wasn't he the Premier of Northern Nigeria. Wasn't he the leader of NPC?

He was HUMAN and POLITICIAN which is why it was possible to target him and kill him by those who claim nationalism.

Onlytruth:

Frankly I understand your reasoning. Unfortunately most Igbo still don't get it. You and the north share a feudalistic culture where a politician is GOD while easterners see it oppositely: different culture and value system. Which is why we wanted to secede!
How can you share a country with so much dissimilarity of cultures?

I kill one of your politicians (for whatever reason), you wipe out my town.
You kill one of my politicians (for whatever reasons), I go about my normal business.

Can't you see CLEAR difference? How can we share a country then, since politics must happen and politicians will always be killed.?
What happens when next they kill your GOD?  

you do not understand. the yoruba system of power is a weak federalism which is smack in the middle of what is practised in the north (totalitarian) and the east ( individualism and democracy). so you have more  in common with the country than you think!

amingafar:

not only Awo but alaafin

Imagine someone killing Alaafin of oyo and Awo at the same time.

the yorubas would have done the same. to be honest.

I'll assume the purpose of this posting this thread on Nairaland and not on a Nigerian Forum (where it will be preaching to the choir) is to correct the ridiculous notion some Nigerians have that Biafra was born out of Ojukwu's personal ambition. That is commendable since a lot of people who haven't bothered to read up on any aspect of the civil war try to lay the blame for secession on Ojukwu.

This is a good article in general in explaining the pressures on Ojukwu given the circumstances, but it is actually not accurate on a number of crucial points which I'm sure people who are interested in this era of Nigeria's troubled history are familiar with. I would advise those that blindly accept every argument put forward here to read not parts of, but the entirety of the book The Nigerian Civil War by John de St. Jorre. The first incorrect statement is the timing of the blockade. The blockade did not occur before the Aburi accord but in fact after the secession declaration. The other is the idea that One-Nigeria advocates like Nzeogwu, Ademoyega or the other coup plotters would have declared secession.

The main problem some that actually know anything about the war have with Ojukwu is in the way Biafra was actually realized. He could have granted the indigenous population of the now Rivers state, many of whom are Igbo, the fuller autonomy that they wanted, but he didn't, instead giving them a poor substitute for what Gowon would later grant them, turning them against him. That isn't my problem, for sure, but it is a very real one which some people from that area do in fact have and did have with Biafra. As things currently are, I doubt it would be a problem if Biafra was declared again and they were included in Biafra now that they have the control that they desired. This little gesture towards those Eastern minorities, including Igbos (Ikwerres) that loathed "Igbo domination" could have saved Biafra a lot of headache.

He could have followed Awolowo's prudent suggestion and had representatives of the East, supported in some, but not all,of their demands by the West, meet with the Northern dominated federal government and negotiate and if the North proved intransigent in implementing at least some part of the Aburi accord, he could say, with the full backing of important voices in the West that the end of Nigeria was necessary. He refused and asserted that the solution was the "largest army in black Africa", which he had built up secretly, neglecting the fact that the Western region had no army and could not obtain one in their position but were expected to attempt to somehow stand with the East and fight the North for the East's demands.

With the important potential ally (the Western region) severely checkmated (note that Awolowo was in no position to secretly start a rebel army, lest he betray the man who freed him (Yakubu Gowon, although I know Ironsi meant to have freed him but didn't actually do so immediately after he resolved to do so, resulting in Awolowo still being in prison until Gowon pardoned him)) the best option was diplomacy (building a coalition of support in the South) rather than going it alone. Ojukwu chose going it alone under the assumption that he was in a "position of power" (his words) due to his newly found large army. He refused a solution in which those in the Western region who supported the implementation of most of the East's demands (Awolowo) could stand with the East and declare solidarity, and align themselves with the East over those in the Western region who supported the Northern controlled military and government and instead said that a military solution was necessary.

The other problem with this military solution, apart from the fact that it precluded those in the West who were sympathetic to the cause of the East from even being able to show solidarity with the East by having leaders from the West and East present before the world a series of reasonable demands of the East to be met for Nigeria to continue, seems to be that instead of invading and taking over part of the North on the way to taking out Gowon in the West or overrunning much of the North (both of these options may not have been militarily feasible, but if so, then all the more reason not to secede under the impression that the power from which he was seceding could be defeated with his army), he took over the Midwest and in exactly such a way that could only be described as a Biafran takeover of a non-Biafran region. He had already lost potential Southern support by refusing diplomatic overtures to the Federal government in which those in the South who supported the East's demands could show support. Immediately after the Midwestern takeover (not "liberation" he lost whatever Southern indifference or neutrality that still existed. Had he gone the other route, and actually thrashed the Nigerian military directly in battle and then overrun the North, that would have been "honorable conduct," and settled the question of whether there was to be a Biafra without any additional question of whether the not at all honorable situation in the Midwest would be sustained after Biafra's victory or the more crucial question of whether a similar situation would have arisen in the West following Biafra's takeover of the West.


These were tactical mistakes, and they were important and enormous. But Ojukwu was not some some perfect human being.

I also hope it's known that Aluko is not exactly pro-Biafran. In fact, reading some of his other articles he seems slightly prejudiced against Igbos so this article probably doesn't even have the aim which some pro-Biafrans here on Nairaland might assume it does.

ibos on nl think they are tough they are just loud mouths

in the north ibos dont even talk about biafra to a northern person, because we will remeber the death of bello and balewa.

they wont even try it i know

continue to call BELLO and ordinary politician (he was above Balewa) just dont say it to our faces.

jason12345:

you do not understand. the yoruba system of power is a weak federalism which is smack in the middle of what is practised in the north (totalitarian) and the east ( individualism and democracy). so you have more  in common with the country than you think!

the yorubas would have done the same. to be honest.

If the Yoruba would have done the same, then you are totalitarian. Period.
That is the truth, and that is why secessionists believe that you should not be in same country as us. You may succeed in a union with northern Nigeria, but NEVER Eastern Nigeria.

chyz:

That is not the issue at hand. We are talking about the pogroms of innocent people not what wouldn't happened if this or that. It seems as if you are trying to justify evil. And please don't drag the yoruba or awolowo into it because that is not the discussion. Also just to make sure we are on the same page, what month was Ahmedu Bello killed in 1966 and what month did the pogrom start?

i would not justify evil, never.

ahmedu bello was killed january and the pogrom started, i think july. am i right?

Onlytruth:

If the Yoruba would have done the same, then you are totalitarian. Period.
That is the truth, and that is why secessionists believe that you should not be in same country as us. You may succeed in a union with northern Nigeria, but NEVER Eastern Nigeria.

why can't they succeed with the eastern nigeria ?