Rare:

You have just supported my point inadvertently. You came to yankee with the "promise of the so-called good life". Why not return to Nigeria with the promise of the so-called escape from "what you lose with having the job that matters to me" ?
Fact is something intangible attracted you to yankee. Another fact; something intangible should attract you to return. If I were in your shoes, I would leave. I made assumptions, and they were right. It was easily inferred from the tone of your post. QED

BTW, the 'your eyes go open soon' feeling happens everywhere. As far as humans desire variety and change. In english it is called first-hand experience. It is a normal human urge.

I am still an American citizen and i will leave whenever i want to. Your views are very myopic.
May be you should talk to many Nigerians professionals that has come to the west hoping to take it to the next level. I know of Doctors, Pharmacist, Engineers that made the mistake of re-locating. Some of them has gone back after they realized that west is not what it claim to the outside world. How do you explain a full blown doctor in Nigeria reduced to a mere Medical assistant in the USA? Or a full Pharmacist reduced to a Pharmacy tech?

Sweet T:

I am still an American citizen and i will leave whenever i want to. Your views are very myopic.
May be you should talk to many Nigerians professionals that has come to the west hoping to take it to the next level. I know of Doctors, Pharmacist, Engineers that made the mistake of re-locating. Some of them has gone back after they realized that west is not what it claim to the outside world. How do you explain a full blown doctor in Nigeria reduced to a mere Medical assistant in the USA? Or a full Pharmacist reduced to a Pharmacy tech?

If the west is that bad, why haven't you renounced your citizenship and move back to Nigeria? Why do we expect to be accommodated and treated equally by the west while in Nigeria we don't get the same?

justwise:

If the west is that bad, why haven't you renounced your citizenship and move back to Nigeria? Why do we expect to be accommodated and treated equally by the west while in Nigeria we don't get the same? 

Thank you justwise.
@Sweet T, actions speak louder than words.

Sweet T:

I am still an American citizen and i will leave whenever i want to. Your views are very myopic.

I agree. But that is because it highlights just the [b]fundamental [/b]logic for hesitance (in the relocation issue)

To be honest, it's a zero sum game. There are pros and cons to staying in the west or leaving to Nigeria.
People that are successful in the west and chose to stay there till their dying days can handle the pyschological pressure that being black or African imposes on them. Not everyone can deal with that, and when it becomes unbearable, peope return home.

Some people came initially for the fun or adventure and not to settle forever here.

We should not belittle anyone's choice, what is good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander in this situation and it's not a black or white thing.

Relocation either to or from the west costs a lot of money, its sets you back economically, you may recover if you can settle quickly in your new home.
If you don't settle quickly in the west, no one sees you , no one taunts you because there is no expectation. You are simply one of the many immigrants struggling to find their feet.

It's not the same in Nigeria, you move back home and there are huge expectations, you may ignore them, but they are there. More over its more expensive in Nigeria and you have to deal with a lower standard of living. Can you deal with that psychologically, is the main question especially if everything does not work out for you at home and it seems all the friends you left behind are way ahead of you.

Most people cannot cope and because of that stay in the west. Everyone has to decide why they want to go back home or stay in the west. For me, I want to go back home and will readily do that if my spouse agrees.

yodiyokun:

It's not the same in Nigeria, you move back home and there are huge expectations, you may ignore them, but they are there. More over its more expensive in Nigeria and you have to deal with a lower standard of living. Can you deal with that psychologically, is the main question especially if everything does not work out for you at home and it seems all the friends you left behind are way ahead of you.
Most people cannot cope and because of that stay in the west. Everyone has to decide why they want to go back home or stay in the west. For me, I want to go back home and will readily do that if my spouse agrees.

A lot of people say they want to go back but curiously it is all conditional if they get a good job, if their spouse agrees, if they get their green card, etc etc.
However simple economics would dictate that most people here would stay in the West for the forseeable future.

tensor777:

A lot of people say they want to go back but curiously it is all conditional if they get a good job, if their spouse agrees, if they get their green card, etc etc.
However simple economics would dictate that most people here would stay in the West for the forseeable future.

My dear, that's why I said its not black or white, nobody knows anyone's circumstances. We can only speak for our own decisions. There is no right or wrong in this case. Nigeria is not as important as loosing my spouse, that would be a stupid decision don't you think!!. We both agreed on this adventure, we both have to agree to return. I dare say, I won't leave Canada until I accomplish my mission. Get a passport get a masters, even If I dont return rich, at least I know my children have a choice later in Life if they so desire. Chikena

If I return today without a penny, it would be difficult but we have a good family support system and we will survive and eventually thrive and succeed.

Each to his own.

yodiyokun:

, If I return today without a penny, it would be difficult but we have a good family support system and we will survive and eventually thrive and succeed,

Yep. That's the easiest source of providing a soft-landing !!

yodiyokun:

, We both agreed on this adventure, we both have to agree to return.

That was my earlier argument. People are willing to take more risks when leaving Nigeria than when returning. If only we can see the return as an adventure as well,

yodiyokun:

, even If I don't return rich, at least I know my children have a choice later in Life if they so desire. Chikena
If I return today without a penny, ,

Mmmmh, I know this would rank high amongst reasons for hesitation to return home permanently (for a lot of folks); and usually more about people's perception of it than of the individual concerned. How about just ignoring all the perceptions

Rare:

That was my earlier argument. People are willing to take more risks when leaving Nigeria than when returning. If only we can see the return as an adventure as well,

Mmmmh, I know this would rank high amongst reasons for hesitation to return home permanently (for a lot of folks); and usually more about people's perception of it than of the individual concerned. How about just ignoring all the perceptions

I do see it as an adventure, but not everybody does, Like I said each to his own.

About perception, forget that, it depends on your family circumstances and who you roll with in Naija.

You have your own opinions, but you can't say others should think the way you do because you dont know their situation.

for some folks, it will be in their best interest to be loaded before going to naija with all the vultures and babalawo believers around them. Let everyone make the best decision for themselves and stop thinking its because people don't have the balls that why they don't want to treturn.

I have a curious question: What in your collective opinions would signal a need to move back to Nigeria?
I mean, if you have legal status where you are, plus a means of livelihood, why would you be under pressure to move back to Nigeria?
I'm just curious, and I don't really buy this talk about the emotional strain associated with being black. That makes no sense, really, not in 2010.

AjanleKoko:

I have a curious question: What in your collective opinions would signal a need to move back to Nigeria?
I mean, if you have legal status where you are, plus a means of livelihood, why would you be under pressure to move back to Nigeria?
I'm just curious, and I don't really buy this talk about the emotional strain associated with being black. That makes no sense, really, not in 2010.

To answer your questions:
If you have a legal and good means of livelihood, there is no pressure to return. I speak of my own experience. I want to return becasue I want to, not because I'm under any pressure. Infact intellectually and personally, I have experienced more growth here., but that is another topic for another day. However, I miss the land of my birth, not necessairly because naija has anything "big" to offer me but it is a fundamental part of who I am. For that alone, and to be close to my dear family, it is worth it. So no pressure really.

The strain of being black is real, very real. It doesn't mean you will not be successful, but it exists and at every level. Even Oprah with all her money and influence was denied access to some place or deal in Paris.
There are some opportnuities that may be withheld from you simply because people are not comfortable with the color of your skin despite the fact that they recognize that you are competent and have everything going for you. That being said, some black people may get those opportnuities as a result of time and chance.

Trust me racism is very real in 2010. Even in Toronto that is known popularly as one of the most culturally accepting and diverse places in the world, it does exist. All you need to do is look at org charts and see how chinese managers hire mostly chinese or eastern europeans hire more of their people etc etc. Even philipino nannies don't want to work with black parents. I experienced that personally.

Regardless, black people have demonstrated they can be succesful in the west even in very white dominated fields of expertise or business. It's all up to the individual and favour. When you are in the right place at the right time, it really may appear you know how to navigate whereas it's just favour.

From my survey of people,

They want to return to retire
So that their kids may identify with Nigeria and it's culture
So that they can make more money and get a piece of the action
Unable to regularize papers
Unable to practice in their professional field.
To rejoin the husband or wife they left behind.

As the best time to leave, you best guess is good as mine - it all depends on the individual.

Personally, I won't leave before my Canadian passport is shining in my hand which hopefully should be in another few months. Then, I start coercing my hubby to think about it seriously. My adventure would be complete then. For me Canada is just an adventure, I am yet to see it as my permanent abode.

yodiyokun:

To answer your questions:
If you have a legal and good means of livelihood, there is no pressure to return. I speak of my own experience. I want to return becasue I want to, not because I'm under any pressure. Infact intellectually and personally, I have experienced more growth here., but that is another topic for another day. However, I miss the land of my birth, not necessairly because naija has anything "big" to offer me but it is a fundamental part of who I am. For that alone, and to be close to my dear family, it is worth it. So no pressure really.

The strain of being black is real, very real. It doesn't mean you will not be successful, but it exists and at every level. Even Oprah with all her money and influence was denied access to some place or deal in Paris.
There are some opportnuities that may be withheld from you simply because people are not comfortable with the color of your skin despite the fact that they recognize that you are competent and have everything going for you. That being said, some black people may get those opportnuities as a result of time and chance.

Trust me racism is very real in 2010. Even in Toronto that is known popularly as one of the most culturally accepting and diverse places in the world, it does exist. All you need to do is look at org charts and see how chinese managers hire mostly chinese or eastern europeans hire more of their people etc etc. Even philipino nannies don't want to work with black parents. I experienced that personally.

Regardless, black people have demonstrated they can be succesful in the west even in very white dominated fields of expertise or business. It's all up to the individual and favour. When you are in the right place at the right time, it really may appear you know how to navigate whereas it's just favour.

Well said

@ Ajanlekoko, i take it you don't believe that instituitional racism is real? It's very real and in every white man land.

Recently a 75 and 67 yr old couple where jailed in UK for visa runs, my question is what else are these old pple still looking for abroad?
Guys the earlier you retire home the better,once you have a reasonable capital move back home and start something however small it seems.

We all know whats obtainable abroad unless we do not want to be sincere with ourselves.

Teedol:

Recently a 75 and 67 yr old couple where jailed in UK for visa runs, my question is what else are these old pple still looking for abroad?
Guys the earlier you retire home the better,once you have a reasonable capital move back home and start something however small it seems.

We all know whats obtainable abroad unless we do not want to be sincere with ourselves.

Please tell me, maybe i'm missing a point here

Teedol:

Recently a 75 and 67 yr old couple where jailed in UK for visa runs, my question is what else are these old pple still looking for abroad?
Guys the earlier you retire home the better,once you have a reasonable capital move back home and start something however small it seems.

We all know whats obtainable abroad unless we do not want to be sincere with ourselves.

how are you sure they don't have a big mansion in the poshest parts of Nigeria built from the proceed of their crime?
probably with many employed 'agents' with dazzling offices up and down the country
do you really want these crooks in nigeria?

Do you really see any of these guys moving back home any time soon?

Dis Guy:

how are you sure they don't have a big mansion in the poshest parts of Nigeria built from the proceed of their crime?
probably with many employed 'agents' with dazzling offices up and down the country
do you really want these crooks in nigeria?

Do you really see any of these guys moving back home any time soon?

Or maybe they have wasted their years paytying abroad till they woke up one morning and were surprised by the man they saw in the mirror, old and slowly dying, to cap it all they got a call from naija that the guy they have been oppressing with some small dollars some years back is now their state govnor back in naija?
So the desperate option will be to join crime and try to die with some semblance of wealth and try to gain cheap respect!

invisible!:

Or maybe they have wasted their years paytying abroad till they woke up one morning and were surprised by the man they saw in the mirror, old and slowly dying, to cap it all they got a call from naija that the guy they have been oppressing with some small dollars some years back is now their state govnor back in naija?
So the desperate option will be to join crime and try to die with some semblance of wealth and try to gain cheap respect!

[b]S[/b]ome govnors in Nigeria are worse than common criminal, so being a thieving govnor shouldn't count as an achievement.

justwise:

[b]S[/b]ome govnors in Nigeria are worse than common criminal, so being a thieving govnor shouldn't count as an achievement.

So, being busted and jailed for Visa scam is now an achievement?

invisible!:

So, being busted and jailed for Visa scam is now an achievement?

No its not, i'm basically saying that the govnors are as bad as those couple.

I sense an undertone of inferiority complex in some of the responses here. Some people think they should scamper back to Africa simply because of the "hateful" stare of an oyibo man. Rubbish. What of all those oyibos in Nigeria making all that money? If you are scared of oyibo, go home. If you loose your liver in the presence of an oyibo, overseas is not for you.

If you dont have legal status abroad, of course your life will be a nightmare. Its probably better you go home. But if you have papers permitting you to work for a living, then its as good as staying in Nigeria. Are we not aware of tribalism in employment and other freely available opportunities in Nigeria? People should be brave and face up to challenges before coming here to ask as all to commit group HaraKiri.

IBEXY:

I sense an undertone of inferiority complex in some of the responses here. Some people think they should scamper back to Africa simply because of the "hateful" stare of an oyibo man. Rubbish. What of all those oyibos in Nigeria making all that money? If you are scared of oyibo, go home. If you loose your liver in the presence of an oyibo, overseas is not for you.

If you dont have legal status abroad, of course your life will be a nightmare. Its probably better you go home. But if you have papers permitting you to work for a living, then its as good as staying in Nigeria. Are we not aware of tribalism in employment and other freely available opportunities in Nigeria? People should be brave and face up to challenges before coming here to ask as all to commit group HaraKiri.

Very good reply.
Someone once remarked and asked if you dont feel like second class citizens in europe,my retort was to ask if he regards himself as a first class citizen in Nigeria.
1st class citizens in Nigeria know themselves. . you are either very connected or you are 2nd class

reindeer:

Very good reply.
Someone once remarked and asked if you dont feel like second class citizens in europe,my retort was to ask if he regards himself as a first class citizen in Nigeria.
1st class citizens in Nigeria know themselves. . you are either very connected or you are 2nd class

There are no 1st or 2nd class citizens in Nigeria, there is only the rich and the poor, just like abroad. I have never seen any Nigerian rich man feeling inferior to another rich man, or a govnor feeling inferior to another govnor, or senator to senator.
Abroad everything is measured by the colour of your skin. Rich black people are still boxed into a corner and cannot flex their muscle as they want.

invisible!:

There are no 1st or 2nd class citizens in Nigeria, there is only the rich and the poor, just like abroad. I have never seen any Nigerian rich man feeling inferior to another rich man, or a govnor feeling inferior to another govnor, or senator to senator.
Abroad everything is measured by the colour of your skin. Rich black people are still boxed into a corner and cannot flex their muscle as they want.

You are obviously making that up as usual, only God knows where u get that bolded line from.

invisible!:

Abroad everything is measured by the colour of your skin. Rich black people are still boxed into a corner and cannot flex their muscle as they want.

So What
I lived and worked in the Niger delta area (dont want to mention names) around 6 yrs ago before I came to UK. The locals treated us like second class citizens simply because we were from another part of Nigeria. The tribalism was too much. Some of us employed as well were being threatened daily. I still remember one or two people who were beaten up and ordered out of the community simply because a local guy wanted their job. This is real first hand experience. So where is the difference? Tribalism and favouritism at home or racism abroad?

Wherever you find people want your skills, provide it there. Be confident no matter any form of intimidation.

Right now in the UK, unless you dont know the law or you are "illegal", you can challenge any form of racism or bullying at the work place and even get paid compensation. All those racists do it in the closet these days.

Like I said, unless you dont know your right or you lack self confidence to face up to a bully, its best you go back to Africa.

I think you guys have both good points.

I think the reality is we experience life differently and our views are shaped by those experiences.

I agree, that it will be difficult to succeed here without confidence in your abilities, if you constantly feel inferior or you have a victim mentality.

That being said, it doesnt' mean that there are not many opportunities that can easily make you fall into the trap of feeling like a second class citizen, its up to each individual how they react to such situations and this ultimately determines their success.

It alos happens a lot in Naija, tribalism, nepotison big manism etc.

But Rich man to Rich man, poor to poor, intellectual to intellectual - in Naija, there isn't much of a difference.
However those definitions will be tainted by the color of your skin in the west. You may chose to ignore it, but it's there. It's up to you to determine whether such responses or reactions will limit your success or not.

IBEXY:

So What
I lived and worked in the Niger delta area (dont want to mention names) around 6 yrs ago before I came to UK. The locals treated us like second class citizens simply because we were from another part of Nigeria. The tribalism was too much. Some of us employed as well were being threatened daily. I still remember one or two people who were beaten up and ordered out of the community simply because a local guy wanted their job. This is real first hand experience. So where is the difference? Tribalism and favouritism at home or racism abroad?

Wherever you find people want your skills, provide it there. Be confident no matter any form of intimidation.

Right now in the UK, unless you dont know the law or you are "illegal", you can challenge any form of racism or bullying at the work place and even get paid compensation. All those racists do it in the closet these days.

Like I said, unless you dont know your right or you lack self confidence to face up to a bully, its best you go back to Africa.

really?

Ma_J_Blige:

really?

I believe IBEXY is promoting what should be the right attitude to have towards something you can not control or change. It's the best reaction within your own control.

I've always thought to myself, if Nigeria was a really developed nation & people immigrated often into our country, I bet we'd offer some of the treatments we're so fast to point out here.

Original poster

Is it possible to set up a business and see how it goes without giving up your Western life completely in case it doesn't work out. You can always live in North America and run the business a few months at a time. Obviously this takes not only money but some trusted people to help you. Or, can you begin a multinational business that allows you to travel between both countries- something involving trade or catering to Nigerians in the west for example?

I know nothing about business so excuse me if this is unrealistic.

naijababe:

Well said

@ Ajanlekoko, i take it you don't believe that instituitional racism is real? It's very real and in every white man land.

No, far from it. I mean, even in Nigeria, Caucasians and Asians openly display racist behaviour to the local people.
I'm just positing that maybe our expectations are a bit unrealistic. People will always show a preference for their own kind, therefore the issue of 2nd or 3rd class citizen is over-dramatized in my view. Maybe it was really bad in the past, but after all said and done, a black man is the US president today.
You guys should visit the UAE or Saudi and see how the Arabs treat Indians and Pakistanis.

What black man is US president? I thought that a half-black man was president?

Don't tell me that the brainwashing of the African Americans by white Americans is now reaching into the minds of Nigerians.

We (Blacks) should not believe in the one drop rule,

Okay, half-white man or whatever you will.
That was not my point.

jamaicangi:

What black man is US president?  I thought that a half-black man was president? 

Don't tell me that the brainwashing of the African Americans by white Americans is now reaching into the minds of Nigerians.

We (Blacks) should not believe in the one drop rule,

One drop rule is completely ridiculous!