Snowwy, Kunle has showed you severally that the way you pastors deceive people to collect their money as 'tithe' is wrong and you are laughing.

You are laughing because you a beneficiary of 'tithe'

@ Kunle
Unfortunately u can never make everyone see this fraud that is called 'tithe' for what it is. all the same I must commend you good work.

May God almight continue to bless you. Amen

@Demain_man
Thanx for the compliments, i would keep up the good fight. I am satisfied that through my efforts thousands of people all over the world have come to know the truth about tithes and can now make informed decisions wether they want to or not.

THE MOST COMMONLY PREACHED TOPIC IN CHURCHES TODAY IS TITHE.

PASTORS ARE ALWAYS FAST AT DIRECTING PEOPLES ATTENTION TO MALACHI. THEN MY QUESTION IS WHY ARE WE NOT OFFERING BURNT OFFERING TODAY?

ANSWER: IT DOES NOT ENRICH THE PASTOR.

IF TITHING IS OF SO MUCH IMPORTANCE AS WE ARE MEANT TO UNDERSTAND, JESUS WOULD HAVE DWELT IN THE TEACHING OF TITHING.

RATHER WHAT CHRIST EMPHASIZED MORE WAS ON HELPING THE NEEDY AND THE POOR AROUND YOU.

I WOULD RATHER VISIT MOTHERLESS BABIES HOMES, HOSPITALS ETC AND DONATE MY HARD EARNED MONEY THERE THAN PAY IT TO ANY MAN BORN OF A WOMAN IN THE NAME OF TITHE.

HOW MANY OF YOU TITHERS CAN AFFORD TO LIVE THE WAY YOUR PASTORS ARE LIVING? BUYING JETS HERE AND THERE; BUYING MANSIONS IN DUBAI ETC.


I THANK GOD THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO KNOW THAT THE PRESENT DAY TITHE IS A BIG FRAUD

@Snowwy said, “1 Corinthians 9:13-14
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live[ of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.”

There are many interpretations of these verses.  Therefore, it is necessary to pick an interpretation that follows the rest of the New Testament.

Verse 13:  live “of the things” of the temple.  The “things of the Temple” included tithes, firstfruits, and offerings.  The verse does NOT read “of ALL the things of the temple.” 

Which of the three items listed is taught to Christians in the New Testament?  ONLY ONE of them.  Offerings.  Firstfruits ONLY applies to the first of the crops, and tithes ONLY applies to crops and animals.

Verse 14:  One interpretation is that those who preach the gospel should do as they preach.  Another would be that the preacher is worthy of wages.

Since at NO TIME in the New Testament did Paul or anyone else preach giving a tenth, tithing was NEVER included in the teachings to Christians.  In the entire KJV of the Bible, the Biblical tithe is NEVER associated with anyone’s income, and the tithe could NEVER be money.

It’s easy to pull a couple of verses out of the Bible to substantiate any argument you want.  But to be correct, the interpretation must fit into the rest of the scriptures.

Yes, a pastor has a right to be paid.  And I have a right to keep all my money.  The pastor wants to exercise his right to be paid while trying to take my right away from me by teaching a false doctrine.  I gladly give from the heart.  The pastor gladly takes the money.

It is better to give than to receive.

I see Kunle has done a good job here 

Snowwy:

So why condemn the 'giving' because of the 'asking'.

I know people condemn the fraudulent twisting of scriptures (the asking) to get money out of the congregation. I am also aware that some people have issues with the giver’s application of ‘pastor modified scriptures’ as basis/motivation for giving, but I don’t know of anybody that condemns giving.

Snowwy:

'Contribution' was what was adopted by the church back then?

Yes 

Romans 15:25-26 (KJV)
25But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. 26For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

1 Corinthians 16:1-2 (KJV)
1Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Snowwy:

You mean 'paying bills' as garyanold said.
And the contribution was not the same as giving to God?

You are the one saying this, not zikkyy 

Snowwy:

The early church gave at the order of Paul. Paul 'asked' too. Everyone had the option to give or not.

True 

Snowwy:

If because you are 'asked' to give you refuse to 'give' then allow those that give whether they are asked or not to. Is that a crime?

Is anybody saying Snowwy should not give 

Joagbaje:

No evidence could be more clearer than this. That the church of christ has replaced the levitical system.

Thank God you are not a high court judge, cos a lot of innocent people would be in jail while the guilty will walk free

Joagbaje said, "No evidence could be more clearer than this. That the church of christ has replaced the levitical system."

Read Hebrews 7.

The Levitical priesthood was DISANNULLED. In other words, it is treated as though there never was a Levitical priesthood.

Hebrews 7:11 (KJV) "If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?"

Hebrews 7:11 is ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that Jesus came AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHISEKEC and NOT after the order of Aaron. THAT, my friend, is perfectly clear EVIDENCE that you are mistaken.

I observe that any post relating to tithing generate much response both from those who favor and those against tithe payment. To this end, endless arguments goes on and on all trying to prove their point or claim to the one saying the truth. It is highly unfortunate that because those people possess itching ears they are persistently opposed to the truth. One thing that gives me joy is that the issue of faith is never by force and we have freedom to make choice.
      The Bible said we shall know the truth and the truth shall make us free(John 8 vs. 32). So it is left for you to allow the Holy Spirit to guide you into knowing and obeying the truth. If after all said and done you come to conclusion that it is not scriptural to pay tithe, then never waste your resources in the name of paying tithe because it is like throwing your money away. However if by the Spirit of GOD you accept the truth presented to you and will continue to present to you on the issue of tithing , then go ahead and obey GOD and pay your tithe faithfully.
      However, it will be highly unfortunate that to do anything based on that  any man told you. All i am doing is to guide you with relevant truth to enable you to decide or otherwise. You must be well persuaded in your mind. The Bible is the only truth not what any man thinks and the Holy Spirit is the only custodian of truth. And it means that it takes the indwelling Holy Spirit in a man to know the truth. If you allow people who don't know GOD or have any relationship with GOD to be the one that say they are telling you the truth it is left for you to decide.
      With respect to e of tithing, GOD is never a task master neither is he in need of your resources. Your paying or not paying tithe is for your gain not GOD or any MOG.

@ogoamaka99,

So you are obeying God by CHANGING His definition for His tithe, and CHANGING where He commanded His tithe be taken.  You have a very odd way of obeying.

If you told your child to take this book to your neighbor, but someone on the way told your child to give it to them, and your child gave it to them instead of your neighbor, I bet you wouldn't think your child obeyed your instructions.

If you told your child that this food belonged to your neighbor, and that he is to take it to them, but he decided to take money instead, I bet you wouldn't think your child obeyed you.

To be obedient to God, you must FOLLOW HIS WORD, not change it.  It's so simple.

^^^
Ogoamaka kindly explain to us as gary stated why you find it justifiable to not only change God's commandment but also mis-apply it to the christian church to which it was never biblically meant for.

PS: you must answer the above questions clearly with dodging them like your comrade snowwy if you want to taken seriously on this issue of tithes. And don't come and tell us the holy spirit told you to change God's law as we all know any contrary spirit to God's law must be of the devil.

@kunleoshob & co,
As you an enemy of the truth I don’t need to go on arguing with you. Moreover you don’t have new thing to offer as you expect me to begin to repeat myself over and over again. Tithe as a covenant obligation started before the nation of Israel came into existence. So whatever our covenant fathers said about tithe is the true meaning of tithe. TITHE AS PAID BY OUR COVENANT FATHERS WAS TO EXPRESS THEIR TRUST, DEPENDENCE AND APPRECIATION TO GOD FOR GIVING THEM THE RESOURCES UPON WHICH THEY PAID TITHE FROM.

You should distinguish between tithe as a covenant obligation and tithe as a law. Tithe as a covenant obligation was in operation before the nation of Israel came into existence and to the nation of Israel the law was giving to. To the Israel they started to defraud in their covenant obligation and that is why GOD incorporate tithe as a law to guide them in their daily lives. They were not paying their tithe correctly that is why GOD tried to define tithe for them as seen in Leviticus 27 vs. 1 - end. A look at the above chapter, some Israelite cattle farmers were saying that it is crop farmers that should pay tithe while crop farmers were saying that it is cattle farmers that should pay tithe. GOD has to define to them what their tithe should be. See Leviticus 27 vs. 30 and 32 (there is tithe of farm crop and tithe of herds or flocks. The Israelites that time were either crop farmers or cattle rarer GOD expect every one of them to pay tithe. Today if you are a crop farmer or cattle rarer and you pay tithe of crop or flock it is acceptable before GOD.

For avoidance of doubt I must point out, people who don’t have any relationship with GOD are those making mockery and attacking tithing while covenant people who understand tithe are faithfully obeying GOD. Any one who has PROVED GOD IN TITHE AND OFFERING ARE NEVER PERSUADED TO PAY TITHE AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO PREVENT THEM FROM OBEYING GOD IN THAT ASPECT.

Because you don’t know GOD nor understand tithing that is while you are attacking tithing. Or rather I see you as been used of the devil to distort the truth so that people will not know the truth. If I and others who are faithful in tithing and it is working for us and you regard us as fools, I rather continue to remain a fool in that aspect. Moreover, it is a well established proof that there is no covenant child of GOD that is enjoying the FULLNESS OF GOD’S BLESSING THAT IS NOT A TITHER.

*****ASSIGNMENT FOR YOU MY READER: Carry out an investigation about the leading men of GOD in Nigeria and you will come to realize that they are paying more than 10% of their income as tithe . No wonder they are enjoying the fullness of GOD’S blessings. I assure you, you can never be persuaded about tithing not until you HAVE PROVED GOD IN THAT ASPECT. GOD said that you should prove HIM, do so and let me see if you will not have a story to tell.

^^^
So you are nor saying that we should tithe based on Abraham's one off example of war loot? And you are calling it "covenant" it's so glaring that you are grasping at straws! Then you go on to hypothesize how God instituted tithes based on your imagination that they were not observing an established covenant practise, this is a lie from the darkest pit of hell sent by your father the devil. STOP adding to scriptures as all liers would have their part in the lake of fire. As per your leading so called men of God being great "tithers" that is another lie, they are actually illegal tithe collectors and fleecers of the flock and they make their money by deceiving the flock in their care, their money is clearly not from God so please spare us the bull shiit.

garyarnold:

Joagbaje said, "No evidence could be more clearer than this. That the church of christ has replaced the levitical system."

Read Hebrews 7.

The Levitical priesthood was DISANNULLED. In other words, it is treated as though there never was a Levitical priesthood.

Hebrews 7:11 (KJV) "If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?"

Hebrews 7:11 is ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that Jesus came AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHISEKEC and NOT after the order of Aaron. THAT, my friend, is perfectly clear EVIDENCE that you are mistaken.

The point I was trying to make is that paul likened the support for full time ministers to the welfare support of priests under the levitical order. And the primary source of welfare for them was in tithes and offerings. So it is proper to give tithes and offering in church. Another thing to note is that tithes and offering came before the law. You can't say I will give only offerings but I won't give tithe. It is funny.

ogoamaka99:

    @kunleoshob & co,
As you an enemy of the truth I don’t need to go on arguing with you. Moreover you don’t have new thing to offer as you expect me to begin to repeat myself over and over again. Tithe as a covenant obligation started before the nation of Israel came into existence. So whatever our covenant fathers said about tithe is the true meaning of tithe. TITHE AS PAID BY OUR COVENANT FATHERS WAS TO EXPRESS THEIR TRUST, DEPENDENCE AND APPRECIATION TO GOD FOR GIVING THEM THE RESOURCES UPON WHICH THEY PAID TITHE FROM.

I don't even think the reason for tithing should be an issue. Some have said if we must tithe then we should follow the law to the letter or follow Abraham to the letter. There is no law for the Christian , whatever we give to God is of faith. Abraham had his reason, Jacob had his reason according to their faith.the major thing is for us to recognise the institution tithing and not the reason people give, These are demonstrations of faith of these individuals in the principles of God. And the principles of God are universal.

Let's take firstfruit for example. Some people have said here that if we must give first fruit we must do it like the Israelites , and the reason since God connected their first fruit to escape from Egypt etc . But spiritually that's not the point . Jacob was the first person to give first fruit , and he didn't escape from any Egypt. These are principles in God which are universal and witnessed in our hearts. The reason Jacob gave first fruit does not have to be the reason the Jews gave first fruit, but the major thing to recognise is the principle which is of faith.  Abraham reason for tithing , is not Jacob reason for tithing and it's not the reason the law gave, I don't give ten percent ? I give twenty percent sometimes more . There have been occasion the spirit of God led me to give all as tithe. And the results have been time ten harvest.  But that is me . Others functioned by their faith and revelation.what is importamt is the recongition of the principles but We must not follow to the letter the manner with which others did it.

A man once sent his daughter to go and work in Gods house for one full year after graduating in school, saying his first child should work for god first before working any where else. It's his revelation. When I was about 10 to 12 years old  , my mum always go to church to clean toilets (pit latrine ).   I Always supply her water from the Well with bucket.and each time I hear her pray to God saying " lord, Im doing this for my children, don't let them suffer" . It was her faith and her revelation. We can't say she must follow the levitical way of temple  cleaning. 

Principles of God are universal. It is recorded that people In the orient practise tithing, and first fruits also has been a universal practice, that's why someone that gets a job takes the first salary to the parents in the village. Because the principles of God are universal.

@Jo

This is what you pastors should preach to your flock. 'FREEWILL GIVING'. Whatever each person desires in their heart. You can add all those Abraham, Jacob instances if you like.

''Pay your tithe or God will punish you if u don't'' is using threat to collect people money which is not biblical and must be condemned just like Gary and Kunle are doing here.


God did not threaten Abraham or Jacob or anyone for that matter to give him anything. Those guys gave because they wanted to. Even where God asked the people of isreal to bring food(NOT 10% salary) sir.

I can give 1%, 20% even 100% if that is the way I feel in my heart any not because one MOG tell me to.

Thanks

The question regarding tithe today has always been about whether it's a directive from God or not for all Christians to give a tenth of their income.

All other stories that don't answer the above are just personal stories used to justify a personal decision to tithe, which is fine.

Joagbaje:

There have been occasion the spirit of God led me to give all as tithe.

This sentence is inspiring. However, since tithe=tenth, then I can still be inspired without the last two words.

^^^
Joagbaje is lieing above, he not a tither rather he is a tithe collector. That is the kind of statement all these false teachers make to manipulate their deluded followers to part with not just a tenth of their income but as much as is even "impossible" for them to give.

Most of our so called church leaders knows the fact about tithe, but they still uses it as a tool against their members due too its financial benefits, often creating and blackmailing them with malachi 3;8 and 9,
As a matter of fact, tithing is now very illegal and unbiblical. Tithing came into existence as a law to the children of isreal , following after the act of Abraham giving a tenth of the spoils of war (GEN 14:20) to Melchizedek, King of Salam.
The purpose of tithing was to support the Levites who were not permited to own any personal property as at that time(num 18;24)(hebrew 7;5), and also to feed the widows and ophans, and it was strictly based on agricultural products(deut. 14;22) Despite money was already in existence then, there was never a time when they were instructed to give money as title, neither was there any eveidence or ocassion anyone gave such. So was this means is that tithing was only targeted at farmers, cos the purpose of it was for there to be meat(food) in the house of God.
However, with the coming of Christ, tithing became of no effect as a result of the abolishing of the law.
This is what Hebrews says about it,
Chapter 7;
verse 9; and as i may so say, levi also, who receiveth tithe payed tithes in Abraham
11; And if therefore perfection were by the levetical priesthood,(for under it the people recieved the law)
what further need was there another priest should rise after the order of melchisedec, and not be called after the
order of Aaron?
12: for the priesthood being changed, there is also made of neccesity a changed also of the law,
13:for whom these things are spoken off partaineth of another tribe,

Tithing is a part of the law. Jesus had come to redeem us from the law, and only those who have not accepted christ are the ones under the law which christ redeem us from. So my conclusion is that that whoever still operate the law of tithe is not a xtain. If tithe was really mandatory as many preachers puts it, how come Jesus never instructed his disciples to tithe? Or lets assumed them that he instructed them but it was not written, but how come there is no particular evidence in the bible where any of the followers of christ payed tithe, right from the time of the disciples, to the apostles and the members of the early church?
Infact, the only placed Christ mentioned anything concerning tithe in the bible was when he wants to criticise the so called lawfull people. ,

matt. 23;23
woe to you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites! for ye tithe mints, arise and cummin and ommited the weightier matters of the law,

, check also luke 18;11 to 14

The ONLY time recorded in the Bible that Jesus spoke of tithing is when He was speaking to the scribes and Pharisees, and Jesus said it when referring to matters of the law. Jesus did not mention covenant, free-will, or anything else regarding the tithe.

Paul never taught tithing to the Christians. Jesus never paid nor received the tithe. There is NO teaching of tithing in the Bible after Calvary. NONE.

You are free to give whatever amount you wish. But to pull the word "tithing" or "tithe" out of the scriptures and use it in a different manner is deceiving. You really are calling free-will giving a tithe and that misleads Christians as many will associate your using of the word with the Biblical meaning.

In Malachi 3:5 God warned the priests about defrauding a worker of his wages.

Those teaching and collecting the tithe will have to account to God at some point.

KunleOshob:

^^^
Joagbaje is lieing above, he not a tither rather he is a tithe collector. That is the kind of statement all these false teachers make to manipulate their deluded followers to part with not just a tenth of their income but as much as is even "impossible" for them to give.

. . If I say I'm tither , you should take it that I'm a tither . You have. No right to say I'm not. Stop talking like a poverty stricken man

. . If I say I'm tither , you should take it that I'm a tither . You have. No right to say I'm not.

NO ONE pays the BIBLICAL tithe today. You can call yourself a tither all you want, but it has NOTHING to do with the Biblical tithe.

You are tithing per man's teachings, NOT God's Word.

REALITY CHECK: You are a GIVER.

Demain_man:

This is what you pastors should preach it to your flock. 'FREEWILL GIVING'. Whatever each person desires in their heart. You can add all those Abraham, Jacob instances if you like.

''Pay your tithe or God will punish you if u don't''

It is wrong to threaten anybody with tithe, it's not by force. God does not punish anyone for not tithing. The only issue is, every practise of the word of God carry a grace., if you do them the grace that is connected to such abounds, if you don't do it , you miss out of the grace such obedience carry. God is not punishing you . It's just like prayer. It's necessary but Mot by force. If you pray, you partake of it's benefit , if you don't , you miss out of it's benefit. Same thing goes for tithing.

Joagbaje:

It is wrong to threaten anybody with tithe, it's not by force. God does not punish anyone for not tithing. The only issue is, every practise of the word of God carry a grace., if you do them the grace that is connected to such abounds, if you don't do it , you miss out of the grace such obedience carry. God is not punishing you . It's just like prayer. It's necessary but Mot by force. If you pray, you partake of it's benefit , if you don't , you miss out of it's benefit. Same thing goes for tithing.  

I am a giver. Not a tither. As a Christian tithe is not for me cos it has been done away with. Jesus did not preach tithe. did not pay tithe and did not receive it. Why should I? God is blessing me and my household. What more can I say.

@uncle joe
Tithing as preached and practised today is contrary to the word of God therefore cannot carry any imaginary grace. I repeat that you are a tithe collector, a beneficiary of the scam and definitely NOT a giver so stop telling us stories about your so called 20% tithe.

Joagbaje:

It is wrong to threaten anybody with tithe, it's not by force. God does not punish anyone for not tithing. The only issue is, every practise of the word of God carry a grace., if you do them the grace that is connected to such abounds, if you don't do it , you miss out of the grace such obedience carry. God is not punishing you . It's just like prayer. It's necessary but Mot by force. If you pray, you partake of it's benefit , if you don't , you miss out of it's benefit. Same thing goes for tithing.

Joe, being a former member of the ministry you're in, I was taught time without number that the grace of God was His unmerited favour.


Now you're saying there's a "grace" I can earn.

^^^
Welcome to bible gymnastics by joagbaje

Claus:

Joe, being a former member of the ministry you're in, I was taught time without number that the grace of God was His unmerited favour.
Now you're saying there's a "grace" I can earn.

There is the unmerited favor and there is ability part which is an empowerment an inner working. A gift, 

We are under the dispensation of grace , unmerited Favour. Which brought us salvation . The grace of God has come to us. It is a definate article . "the grace of God"

Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:[ it is] the gift of God: 

But there is another part of grace which is an ability . This is not definate. There are several graces. They can abound upon a man. They can multiply by prayer or by knowledge.  
  
 2 Peter 1:2
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 

 2 Corinthians 9:8
8 And God[ is] able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all[ things], may abound to every good work:

A man can decide to deliberately increase in a grace. This is function of faith.

 2 Peter 3:18
18 But grow in grace, and[ in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him[ be] glory both now and for ever. Amen.

There is a grace /ability by which a man can be a giver. A man can choose  to increase in the ability of giving.


Paul admonish corinthian church to increase in the "Giving grace" as they've increased already in other graces. But they lacked the giving grace.
  
2 Corinthians 8:7
7 Therefore, as ye abound in every[ thing, in] faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and[ in] all diligence, and[ in] your love to us,[ see] that ye abound in this grace also.

 2 Corinthians 8:7 (amplified)
7 Now as you abound and excel and are at the front in everything -- in faith, in expressing yourselves, in knowledge, in all zeal, and in your love for us --[ see to it that you come to the front now and] abound and excel in this gracious work[ of almsgiving] also. 

. The reason Paul refused to ask money from them was because they were not givers. They were like kunleoshob
So Paul would rather labour or recieve from others like T-tonye, joagbaje,etc. So Paul admonished them to grow in the giving grace. Kunleoshob needs this grace!

Chei see joagbaje changing the biblical definition of grace to suit their fraudulent false doctrine of unbiblical tithes. What won't this man do for his meal ticket?

On the contrary I am a giver and I preach genuine christian giving based on love not fraudulently extorted giving and delusions you and your oga practise in your sect.

Joe, going back to 2 Corinthians 8:1 tells us the grace that Paul was talking about later on in 2 Cotinthians 8:7.

[/i]2 Corintihans 8:1
Moreover, brethren, we make known to you the grace of God which hath been given in the churches of Macedonia[i]

I don't believe there's justification for trying to differentiate this grace and say it's another type of grace.

^^^
That's joagbaje for you always twisting and ridicling the scriptures for the sake of his and his god's[oyaks] belly.

KunleOshob:

Chei see joagbaje changing the biblical definition of grace to suit their fraudulent false doctrine of unbiblical tithes. What won't this man do for his meal ticket?

On the contrary I am a giver and I preach genuine christian giving based on love not fraudulently extorted giving and delusions you and your oga practise in your sect.

I'm not changing definition. Grace has about 4 or five definitions . Why don't you do a study instead of criticism.

Moreover, I did not see anywhere ''tithe'' is refered to in those passages or am i missing something?

@Jo Sir, I do not have a problem with giving. I do however have a problem with deceiving brethren with giving by a way of 10% of their hard earned money to finance u guys expensive living. To me that is stealing in the name of the Lord.

Almost every other nigerian pay tithe with absolutely nothing to show for it. Most of the ones who will claim to be benefiting from their faithful tithing have been shown time and time again to be nothing but petty thieves and criminal goverment officials.