OmoOlorun:

SAP did not work for us because it was designed for a working system. Nigeria did not have a working and effective framework to make SAP work. Moreover, there are various write ups that show that contrary to IMF and World Bank claim to the contrary, SAP has made developing nations poorer.

I have read some of the write-ups on why SAP did not work for us, and I came away believing that the SAP policies themselves were not the issue, but that the problems came in at the point of implemention of those policies. Like I said, many of the policies were really commonsense ideas, and if you will agree, other non SAP commonsense ideas we have tried to implement over the years, have on the most part failed. Not because the ideas were themselves the problem but because our Government was too corrupt to see these ideas through the correct implementation of these ideas to completion. Many of the developing nations that SAP has failed for are also countries where corrupt regimes remain in power at the detriment of the people, and other non SAP programs have also failed to help the same people.

It is like building a bridge to connect two towns divided by a river. A Bridge makes real good sense as it opens up communication and also helps improve on the lives of the people in the area. If however, the people in charge of handling the project, from the two towns are more interested in how much they can make from the deal, than on completing the bridge, you are bound to end up with a failed project. Do we then conclude that the initial idea was a bad one? Or do we state that the problem was simply corruption, as we know it is?

OmoOlorun:

Take for example major cuts to expenditure on health, education and development while debt repayment is made a priority. The greatest investment any nation could make is the development of the intellect of its people. Will cutting educational budget achieve this? The standard of living of the recipients gets reduced drastically.

I agree but I also think you need to remember what the situation in NIgeria was back during the years we are speaking of. We needed to make cuts and I don't have the exact numbers but I believe education was to be cut but these cuts were not meant to be permanent. During this past recession a la the recovery, many countries have had to do about the same to save money.

OmoOlorun:

IMF gave Ireland money at an interest rate that would kill their economy. I was in the UK when this deal was being brokered and I heard the argument the British government was putting across to its people - "we have everything to gain from this deal". They borrowed at about 3% and lent to Ireland through the IMF at about 5%, so they would gain in the long term. The UK's reason for taking part in the bail out was not for Irish interest but to protect British banks exposed to Irish debts. The IMF represents some Western Countries' interest and would kill any economy in order to maintain the position of its current members.

So, nevermind that the Irish got themselves in the mess they are in, it is wrong for Britain to try to gain, even if just 2%, from the loan it lends to Ireland, for it's(Ireland's) recovery?

Obviously we have a corruption and implementation problem in Nigeria. That has to be dealt with for progress to be made. it is however difficult to win the battle against corruption while fighting with pen, paper and internet from overseas. We will do well to all be home leading a revolution to get rid of the old guard that brought us to where we are. On the SAP/ IMF matter, I still believe there has to be a better way of achieving the core objective of poverty eradication/ alleviation without selling the country and reducing the quality of life of the citizens

OmoOlorun:

Obviously we have a corruption and implementation problem in Nigeria. That has to be dealt with for progress to be made. it is however difficult to win the battle against corruption while fighting with pen, paper and internet from overseas.

What battle against corruption?

OmoOlorun:

We will do well to all be home leading a revolution to get rid of the old guard that brought us to where we are.

Well, when you are actually ready to revolt, let me know, but till then . . . let's stop making that noise please . . . lol

OmoOlorun:

On the SAP/ IMF matter, I still believe there has to be a better way of achieving the core objective of poverty eradication/ alleviation without selling the country and reducing the quality of life of the citizens

Lets please remember the times we are talking of here. We had just come from a government that had clamped down and cleaned up Nigeria as much as it could in 20 months. Every Nigerian was still hopeful that not much would change until about a year into the new Goverment before many of us even realized that the days of the Buhari regime were gone forever. 1986 IBB began the so called implentation of SAP, But the same year, we also noticed corruption showing its face in broad day light right about the same time. Fast forward about 8 years later, Babangida leaves with not much in terms of development and huge debt.

Mr Manny4lif

benimeogu:

Mr Manny4life,
Please read the attached info and tell me what you think about Nigeria's importation madness , especially as it relates to non essential item Nigerians can comfortably improvise. You were very sarcastic with your response to my honest contribution to issues on Naira devaluation.
With due respect , tell fellow Nairalanders what you think and why we should not restrict import to save naira and our reserve.
thanks.
Ben Imeogu
NJ.
http://www.vanguardngr.com/2011/02/for-how-long-will-nigeria-continue-with-this-import-syndrome-madness/

Please sir, I feel humbled for you using the word Mr.; however, I think I'm a lil too young for that title. 

While I agree with you on Nigeria's madness about importation; although I wasn't being sarcastic of any sort. I was only stressing that "nonessential" goods tend to contribute a less amount of imports on Nigeria's list. As to toothpicks, any company could have started that but the question remain, how much of tooth pick import represent our total import as compared to staple foods like rice? Rice, Oil, Cement, Sugar etc represent huge chunks of our imports; place import restrictions with high tariffs, and people would be forced to look for local alternatives. I think you misunderstood my stance, I was not against your opinion, I was only saying that "non-essential" items are less likely to contribute to high imports than "essential" items.

There has to be a balance on import restrictions; between "essential and non-essential". To save the Naira, we should restrict imports; however restricting imports should be done cautiously as because we don't have any infrastructure to produce whatever we import. It's a two way game; to you restrict something you don't have nor produce to save the Naira or do you damn the consequences? Keep in mind that unless a high significant portion of major import categories are heavily imposed or restricted, the lesser likely ones are more likely irrelevant and would not play any significant change

[size=18pt]@Kobojunkie,
Your arguments does not make sense.

You have said more than once that you are not an economist yet you are here making the most noise arguing with vast majority of those who have good understanding of the issues.

Would you be willing to move all you money and assets back home to Nigeria before the devaluation, so that you can be impoverished with everyone else when the next round of devaluation occurs?

Please stop making noise about a subject that you have yourself, acknowledged that you do not know much about. [/size]

^^ Just so you know, using BIG fonts does not make you seem more intelligent, and neither does it infuse more sense in anything you have to offer.


a) I do not agree with your views at all ,and I do not expect my views to make sense to you at either.

b) I don't subscribe to the idea of creating CONSPIRACY THEORIES to answer that which common sense can, if only one CRITICALLY EXAMINED the situation.

c) Again, learn to SEPARATE one thing from another. The Naira was devalued in 2008 . . . Are we poorer as a result? NO WE ARE NOT --- World Data does not show any SIGNIFICANT INCREASES in number of poor as a result. I know we like to pretend we have it all figured out but we also need to learn each really applies.

So spare me your tales of conspiracies and impending doom. I would prefer common sense rational rebuttals, and not stories of OJUJU CALABAR and more responsible for all our sins and mistakes.
You have a right to your view . . . . respect my right my mine!

^^ Have you considered the fact that you view is  wrong?

considering that IMF and World Bank have acknowledged that SAP and devaluation of Naira was wrong for Nigeria.

Why do you keep defending the misdeeds of the West /white man?

GenBuhari:

^^ Have you considered the fact that you view is  wrong?

considering that IMF and World Bank have acknowledged that SAP and devaluation of Naira was wrong for Nigeria.

Why do you keep defending for the misdeeds of the West /white man?

I think we have been through this before. You make it hard for me to even want to respond when you show that you have little or no clue what was/is being discussed. Honestly, I know many of you do not bother to read, take time to understand points being made, before you jump into the well-known [b]US vs THEM [/b]mode. Again, I say "You have a right to your view . . . . respect my right my mine"!

My

chosen04:

Trust GEJ to embrace whatever comes from IMF.

They told him items on banned list was too long, he agreed!

They have now notified him that naIRa is overvalued, trust him to agree!

Typical gooferian

Kobojunkie:

I have read some of the write-ups on why SAP did not work for us, and I came away believing that the SAP policies themselves were not the issue, but that the problems came in at the point of implemention of those policies. Like I said, m[b]any of the policies were really commonsense ideas[/b], and if you will agree, other non SAP commonsense ideas we have tried to implement over the years, have on the most part failed. Not because the ideas were themselves the problem but because our Government was too corrupt to see these ideas through the correct implementation of these ideas to completion. Many of the developing nations that SAP has failed for are also countries where corrupt regimes remain in power at the detriment of the people, and other non SAP programs have also failed to help the same people.

It is like building a bridge to connect two towns divided by a river. A Bridge makes real good sense as it opens up communication and also helps improve on the lives of the people in the area. If however, the people in charge of handling the project, from the two towns are more interested in how much they can make from the deal, than on completing the bridge, you are bound to end up with a failed project. Do we then conclude that the initial idea was a bad one? Or do we state that the problem was simply corruption, as we know it is?

I agree but I also think you need to remember what the situation in NIgeria was back during the years we are speaking of. We needed to make cuts and I don't have the exact numbers but I believe education was to be cut but these cuts were not meant to be permanent. During this past recession a la the recovery, many countries have had to do about the same to save money.

So, nevermind that the Irish got themselves in the mess they are in, it is wrong for Britain to try to gain, even if just 2%, from the loan it lends to Ireland, for it's(Ireland's) recovery?

Why do you have to get into what you know nothing about ? No insult meant but this is plain foolishness and am so upset by it. SAP programs were failures from the point of design not point of implementation.

yeswecan:

Why do you have to get into what you know nothing about ? No insult meant but this is plain foolishness and am so upset by it. SAP programs were failures from the point of design not point of implementation.

I disagree. You will need to SHOW this, not BULLY me into accepting your point of view. That is the way intelligent debates happen. If it upsets you, then it is probably best you stay away from that you are not skilled in. And no offense meant here either.

SAP was a loan stipulation -- we took out a loan, that is why we got SAP. We are right now implementing much of what we rejected in SAP. How can you then say design failed, when SAP was simply geared towards those who had intentions of taking out loans?

There is a cliche that goes like this: Fool me once, you're smart, fool me a second time, I am silly"!

Its time for Nigeria and Nigerians to decide whether it is the West/IMF that is "smart" or whether it is we Nigerians that are "silly". Its our call!

The simplest question anyone who was not "matured enough", back then in 1985, when SAP and Naira's devaluation (done more than once!)was "reigning" is: What are we trying to achieve, that we cannot achieve using other sensible methods, than devaluing our own currency?
*Why did America not devalue the dollar, despite all their recession problems?
*Why did U.K not devalue that G.B.Pound that is the most expensive currency in the world or were they immune to the last recession?
*So many countries in the E.U, especially "the PIGS" (Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain) are actually facing worse scenarios than Nigeria yet, the EURO was never contemplated for devaluation!

And to think that these are countries that dont even have the "free" crude oil!
We dig ground small and before you say Jack, our foreign reserve is full of billions of dollars?
Why are such a "silly race" (pardon my foul language please, l am angry with  myself!) that we dont ever wonder how a country like Germany, without any oil exports, some Scandinavian countries, e.t.c, manage to be buoyant and remain solvent?

I will not even engage in any silly dialogue about "IMF and Naira devaluation" It is crass and evil; PERIOD.
Do we even understand the far-reaching implications of devaluation? Go ask those who were salary earners, back then in 1985. Yes, we might need to ask our parents

Any "average Joe" should do the maths: What do we "save" by devaluing again, our "almost worthless" Naira?
Now, (using just one example), if we "seriously clamp down" on looted money at the NASS level or Governorship level, which one would be higher? The IMF savings or the "drain-pipe" NASS/Governors?

Our problem is not that we dont have money, NIGERIA IS ONE OF THE RICHEST COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD, by the ratio of "total resources to population". Our problem is unbridled Corruption, by a few!

I have read a lot of disgraceful analysis here, by people who claim to be educated, University graduates  and some "Tokunbohs" that dont even know jerk and yet are spewing balderdash!

Okay, if you think that we cant clamp down on the two "sectors" mentioned above, let us repeat that "silly question" again!
How much do we gain by "IMF pills and naira devaluation"?, since the "health of any economy boils down to what it has in its foreign reserve" (if you have the dollars in your reserve, like China, its up to you to spend!)
Then lets compare 'same' to what people like Ibori, Obj, IBB, Ministers, past Governors have stolen and kept in foreign swiss account? Please, can someone give me an answer?

If Nigeria, needs 300Billion dollars in its foreign reserve today, (so that we can buy like mad, shop till we drop), we know where to get it! They are in the same Western Banks that controls IMF!

Seriously speaking, if Ghadafi has 33Billion dollars in just the U.S. alone, and he can still develop that his desert country as we all see on TV, tell me, how much do you think must have been stolen by our "leaders", for Nigeria to remain such a 'rotten country' as it is today, so much so that IMF has the guts to come back to us again?

If Nigerians are serious about themselves and our country,lets stop  discussing IMF or devaluation; LET US DISCUSS HOW TO GET OUR COUNTRY BACK FROM THOSE HOLDING IT HOSTAGE.
[b]
To do otherwise is to continue to wallow and die in ignorance![/b]

Devalue the Naira? What a joke!