I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Galatians 2:21, KJV


What has a right understanding of your righteousness got to do with expecting good to happen to you today? Everything!

Many believers associate righteousness with a list of things that they have to do, and if they fulfill this list, they feel “righteous.” Conversely, when they fail in terms of their behavior, they feel “unrighteous.” But this is the wrong definition and understanding of righteousness.

Let’s go back to what the Bible has to say. Look at 2 Corinthians 5:21: “For He [God] made Him [Jesus Christ] who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him [Jesus Christ].” We are not righteous because we do right. We became righteous because of what Jesus did for us at the cross. “Righteousness,” therefore, is not based on our right doing. It is based entirely on Jesus’ right doing. Christianity is not about doing right to become righteous. It is all about believing right in Jesus to become righteous.

Do you realize that we have been conditioned to associate being blessed with doing right? Most belief systems are based on a system of merit whereby you need to fulfill certain requirements—give to the poor, do good to others and care for the underprivileged—to attain a certain state of righteousness. It all sounds very noble, self-sacrificial and appealing to our flesh, which likes to feel that our good works have earned us our righteousness.

But God is not looking at your nobility, sacrifices or good works to justify you. He is only interested in Jesus’ humility at the cross. He looks at His Son’s perfect sacrifice at Calvary to justify you and make you righteous! Attempting to be justified by your good works and trying your best to keep the Ten Commandments to become righteous is to negate the cross of Jesus Christ. It is as good as saying, “The cross is not enough to justify me. I need to depend on my good works to make myself clean and righteous before God.”

The apostle Paul said, “I do not frustrate the grace [unmerited favor] of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” My friend, consider carefully what Paul is saying here. He is effectively saying that if you are depending on your good works, your doing and your ability to keep perfectly the Ten Commandments to become righteous, then Jesus died for nothing! That’s what “in vain” means—for nothing! So don’t frustrate the grace of God by depending on your good works to make yourself righteous and put God on your side. Jesus’ sacrifice is more than enough to justify you! And when you know that you are justified, you can be confident that the unmerited favor of God is on your side and expect good to happen to you today!

From Joseph Prince Daily Meditate Devotional

Thattallgirl:
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Galatians 2:21, KJV


What has a right understanding of your righteousness got to do with expecting good to happen to you today? Everything!

Many believers associate righteousness with a list of things that they have to do, and if they fulfill this list, they feel “righteous.” Conversely, when they fail in terms of their behavior, they feel “unrighteous.” But this is the wrong definition and understanding of righteousness.

Let’s go back to what the Bible has to say. Look at 2 Corinthians 5:21: “For He [God] made Him [Jesus Christ] who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him [Jesus Christ].” We are not righteous because we do right. We became righteous because of what Jesus did for us at the cross. “Righteousness,” therefore, is not based on our right doing. It is based entirely on Jesus’ right doing. Christianity is not about doing right to become righteous. It is all about believing right in Jesus to become righteous.

Do you realize that we have been conditioned to associate being blessed with doing right? Most belief systems are based on a system of merit whereby you need to fulfill certain requirements—give to the poor, do good to others and care for the underprivileged—to attain a certain state of righteousness. It all sounds very noble, self-sacrificial and appealing to our flesh, which likes to feel that our good works have earned us our righteousness.

But God is not looking at your nobility, sacrifices or good works to justify you. He is only interested in Jesus’ humility at the cross. He looks at His Son’s perfect sacrifice at Calvary to justify you and make you righteous! Attempting to be justified by your good works and trying your best to keep the Ten Commandments to become righteous is to negate the cross of Jesus Christ. It is as good as saying, “The cross is not enough to justify me. I need to depend on my good works to make myself clean and righteous before God.”

The apostle Paul said, “I do not frustrate the grace [unmerited favor] of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” My friend, consider carefully what Paul is saying here. He is effectively saying that if you are depending on your good works, your doing and your ability to keep perfectly the Ten Commandments to become righteous, then Jesus died for nothing! That’s what “in vain” means—for nothing! So don’t frustrate the grace of God by depending on your good works to make yourself righteous and put God on your side. Jesus’ sacrifice is more than enough to justify you! And when you know that you are justified, you can be confident that the unmerited favor of God is on your side and expect good to happen to you today!

From Joseph Prince Daily Meditate Devotional

See why I want to know u more. I love this, keep it up.

He is Jesus Christ The Righteous meaning He is The Way, The Truth and The Life and

To achieve these you must be faithful, hopeful, peaceful and charitable, in shinning, showing and living creditably.

For God so love the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believe in Him will not perish but have Eternal Life. That is Righteousness and the way to achieve it..

Righteousness is an all embrassing Holy Spirit and The Sceptre of Trinity.

orunto27:
He is Jesus Christ The Righteous meaning He is The Way, The Truth and The Life and

To achieve these you must be faithful, hopeful, peaceful and charitable, in shinning, showing and living creditably.

For God so love the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believe in Him will not perish but have Eternal Life. That is Righteousness and the way to achieve it..

Righteousness is an all embrassing Holy Spirit and The Sceptre of Trinity.

Where in the new testament does it say u have to "achieve" righteousness? Whereas in the new testament you'll find "'gift' of righteousness" instead. In Romans 3:10, it says no one is righteous. In Romans 3:21 till the end of that chapter, it says righteousness comes by faith in Christ Jesus and not by human works or achievement. That is why Christ came.

God can't stand sin, and for us to be able to come to His presence/throne boldly, our sins -past, present and future- was poured out on Christ on the cross. So that only through Jesus, we might be righteous in the eyes of God. Righteousness is a gift only given by faith in Jesus, and not by us trying to achieve or follow the commandments based on our works.

If we need to "achieve" righteousness, then Christ died in vain. (Galatians 2:21).

Op, Dat Doesn't Mean Dat One Shouldn't Do Good Works.

Thattallgirl:
Where in the new testament does it say u have to "achieve" righteousness? Whereas in the new testament you'll find "'gift' of righteousness" instead. In Romans 3:10, it says no one is righteous. In Romans 3:21 till the end of that chapter, it says righteousness comes by faith in Christ Jesus and not by human works or achievement. That is why Christ came.

Where in the New Testament you ask? Well, start by learning the blessings that are part of the New Covenant, where over and over, Jesus Christ tells you of those who will in fact make it into Heaven. Jesus Christ is the one who you claim to be your Master, is that not right? So, go back to the book and read through the gospels where He is recorded to have told you everything you need to achieve in order to gain that which He has for you.

Not everyone who believes in Jesus Christ will enter Heaven, no! According to Jesus Christ, His Kingdom is only for those who do works of righteousness, the rock on which His Church is built.

Thattallgirl:
God can't stand sin, and for us to be able to come to His presence/throne boldly, our sins -past, present and future- was poured out on Christ on the cross. So that only through Jesus, we might be righteous in the eyes of God. Righteousness is a gift only given by faith in Jesus, and not by us trying to achieve or follow the commandments based on our works.

If we need to "achieve" righteousness, then Christ died in vain. (Galatians 2:21).

God hates sin, sure! But what is it about Sin that He hates? It is that it is disobedience! Jesus Christ Himself said it several times to you that only those who obey Him, will He abide in. If you do not obey Him i.e. do the works that He has commanded you, you don't belong to Him at all, even though in your heart you have purposed to believe in Him, and yes, there will be many such as that, who only believe but do not obey. For those are the fires of Hell made ready for that is where they will spend the eternity that Jesus Christ has prepared for the eternity they gain from believing in HIm.

Truvel:
Op, Dat Doesn't Mean Dat One Shouldn't Do Good Works.

Of course! Do good works! Be kind and all that. My point is that if u think by your "works" u have been made righteous then you're trying to say that Christ died for nothing. We can only be righteous by believing that Jesus Christ is our righteousness in God. That is all.

Thattallgirl:
Of course! Do good works! Be kind and all that. My point is that if u think by your "works" u have been made righteous then you're trying to say that Christ died for nothing. We can only be righteous by believing that Jesus Christ is our righteousness in God. That is all.

But that is not what Jesus Christ said. He did in fact say that only those who do the works He has commanded with enter into Heaven.

Matthew 25 vs 31-40 (ESV)
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31. “The Son of Man will come again with divine greatness, and all his angels will come with him. He will sit as king on his great and glorious throne.
32. All the people of the world will be gathered before him. Then he will separate everyone into two groups. It will be like a shepherd separating his sheep from his goats.
33. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34. “Then the king will say to the godly people on his right, ‘Come, my Father has great blessings for you. The kingdom he promised is now yours. It has been prepared for you since the world was made.
35. It is yours because when I was hungry, you gave me food to eat. When I was thirsty, you gave me something to drink. When I had no place to stay, you welcomed me into your home.
36. When I was without clothes, you gave me something to wear. When I was sick, you cared for me. When I was in prison, you came to visit me.’
37. “Then the godly people will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and give you food? When did we see you thirsty and give you something to drink?
38. When did we see you with no place to stay and welcome you into our home? When did we see you without clothes and give you something to wear?
39. When did we see you sick or in prison and care for you?’
40. “Then the king will answer, ‘The truth is, anything you did for any of my people here, you also did for me.’
[b] 41. “Then the king will say to the evil people on his left, ‘Get away from me. God has already decided that you will be punished. Go into the fire that burns forever—the fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels.
42. You must go away because when I was hungry, you gave me nothing to eat. When I was thirsty, you gave me nothing to drink.
43. When I had no place to stay, you did not welcome me into your home. When I was without clothes, you gave me nothing to wear. When I was sick and in prison, you did not care for me.’
44. “Then those people will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty? When did we see you without a place to stay? Or when did we see you without clothes or sick or in prison? When did we see any of this and not help you?’
45. “The king will answer, ‘The truth is, anything you refused to do for any of my people here, you refused to do for me.’
46. “Then these evil people will go away to be punished forever. But the godly people will go and enjoy eternal life.”

Those who believe in Him but do not obey His commandments i.e. do the work He has commanded of them (not their version of good work) will end up as eternal firewood in the fires of Hell. That is what Jesus Christ pretty much said will happen.

Kobojunkie:
Where in the New Testament you ask? Well, start by learning the blessings that are part of the New Covenant, where over and over, Jesus Christ tells you of those who will in fact make it into Heaven. Jesus Christ is the one who you claim to be your Master, is that not right? So, go back to the book and read through the gospels where He is recorded to have told you everything you need to achieve in order to gain that which He has for you.

Not everyone who believes in Jesus Christ will enter Heaven, no! According to Jesus Christ, His Kingdom is only for those who do works of righteousness, the rock on which His Church is built.

God hates sin, sure! But what is it about Sin that He hates? It is that it is disobedience! Jesus Christ Himself said it several times to you that only those who obey Him, will He abide in. If you do not obey Him i.e. do the works that He has commanded you, you don't belong to Him at all, even though in your heart you have purposed to believe in Him, and yes, there will be many such as that, who only believe but do not obey. For those are the fires of Hell made ready for that is where they will spend the eternity that Jesus Christ has prepared for the eternity they gain from believing in HIm.

Well, I quoted scriptures in the Bible to back up everything I said earlier. Does that mean the scriptures I quoted are wrong?
You said I should go back to my Bible where it'll show me all I need to "achieve" to make Heaven, and I did. I quoted them already!
Lol and u said only those who "do the works of righteousness" will make Heaven. I dunno where that is in the Bible. Pls tell me. Cos even Abraham (being in the old covenant) believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. Abraham wasn't righteous cos he was the best or he served God the best or cos he did "some works", he was righteous simply cos he believed God. And now, under the new covenant of Grace(Unmerited Favor), if u think u can become righteous by your own works, why then did Christ die? You think He died just for your sins to be forgiven. My dear, I recommend u read Romans and Galatians more, and meditate on them.
And yes! God hates disobedience, and Christ said only those who obey Him will abide in Him. And what do u think that obedience is? He said it in John 3:16.

It's why many Christians are struggling thinking they can buy God's righteousness by doing this and doing that. Sometimes u hear "if u want to receive God's blessings, do these things or do those things". After doing all those things, do they still get the blessings? No! They don't because they feel they can merit or deserve God's righteousness which brings blessings.

The only way u can be righteous or receive abundance of His grace is by humbling yourself and believe you are already righteous in Christ Jesus and stop trying to win God over. Cos my dear, you'll wear yourself out.

If u still don't understand or think I'm wrong, I ask u to stop being adamant and think about what I've said and check the scriptures out for yourself. God bless u.

Kobojunkie:
But that is not what Jesus Christ said. He did in fact say that only those who do the works He has commanded with enter into Heaven.

Those who believe in Him but do not obey His commandments i.e. do the work He has commanded of them (not their version of good work) will end up as eternal firewood in the fires of Hell. That is what Jesus Christ pretty much said will happen.

And u are right by saying those who don't obey Him or do His commandments will not make Heaven!
All I'm saying is that as humans, since we've fallen short of God's glory cos of what Adam did, we cannot successfully obey God's commands on our own. If we think we can do it on our own, we'll end up wearing ourselves out and still sinning more. Lemme ask u, since you've been a Christian, haven't u still sinned more? Are u still not going to sin?
The only way we can successfully (with time) obey all of God's commands and not let sin dominate us is if we believe that as Christians, we are already righteous in Christ. Once we have this revelation and we still sin, and we know there's no condemnation in Christ Jesus, naturally we won't feel like sinning. Cos this revelation I'm talking about will renew our minds from the inside out and gradually, things that are wrong that we used to do before, we won't find the urge to do so anymore.
Yes! If we don't obey the commandments, we won't make Heaven. Again, all I'm saying is we can't obey the commandments by our own self effort. Christ himself died for us so that only through Him can we be perfect and righteous in the eyes of God. Do u understand my point?

Thattallgirl:
Well, I quoted scriptures in the Bible to back up everything I said earlier. Does that mean the scriptures I quoted are wrong?

You instead miscontrued the message in the portion you quoted. The scripture you quoted in no way informs that there is no work for you to do, as one who believes in Jesus Christ, should Heaven in fact be your goal.

Thattallgirl:
You said I should go back to my Bible where it'll show me all I need to "achieve" to make Heaven, and I did. I quoted them already!

You still did not quote the right blocks from the book.

Thattallgirl:
Lol and u said only those who "do the works of righteousness" will make Heaven. I dunno where that is in the Bible. Pls tell me. Cos even Abraham (being in the old covenant) believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. Abraham wasn't righteous cos he was the best or he served God the best or cos he did "some works", he was righteous simply cos he believed God. And now, under the new covenant of Grace(Unmerited Favor), if u think u can become righteous by your own works, why then did Christ die? You think He died just for your sins to be forgiven. My dear, I recommend u read Romans and Galatians more, and meditate on them.

What I have come to realize is that many of you who talk a lot about this so-called new covenant of Grace do not even understand what the covenant refers to and what Grace in the covenant means.
First of all, we are not called to believe in Abraham or become like Abraham, no! We are called to believe in Jesus Christ and obey Jesus Christ. So, let's leave Abraham out of this for now.
Second, the one who is the New Covenant, the one who came full of the grace that you all talk about, is Jesus Christ, and the same Jesus Christ declared that only those who obey Him and do as He commands, only they will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. It is His kingdom you intend you enter, is it not? And He is the Way into that Kingdom, the Truth that is that Kingdom and the (eternal life) that is given you for you to live to be saved from the condemnation that is the law of sin and death(from the days of Adam), is it not?

Thattallgirl:
And yes! God hates disobedience, and Christ said only those who obey Him will abide in Him. And what do u think that obedience is? He said it in John 3:16.

"What do you think that obedience is?" Jesus Christ laid out about 46 commandments, a part of the grace(resources that God has made available to help lead His own back to Him) that He was full of.. The New Covenant. What then do you think He meant when He said you should obey Him?
He even went as far as to tell you that He will abide only in those who abide in Him. What do you think He meant ?
Jesus Christ even posited that those who do not obey Him are not of Him. What do you think He meant?

Thattallgirl:
It's why many Christians are struggling thinking they can buy God's righteousness by doing this and doing that. Sometimes u hear "if u want to receive God's blessings, do these things or do those things". After doing all those things, do they still get the blessings? No! They don't because they feel they can merit or deserve God's righteousness which brings blessings.

The reason many Christians struggle is because rather than listen to, and do what Jesus Christ actually said, they instead listen to what men tell them of the man Jesus Christ, and do instead what they think is good, rather than obeying what Jesus Christ has in fact commanded of them.

When it comes to God and the things of God, Obedience remains the only key. There are many who will believe in Jesus Christ but will never see the gates of Heaven. Why? Because no matter how much you believe, what Jesus Christ said is what will be... after all.. He is the very truth of God, and no other "truth" out there can buy anyone a way into His Kingdom.

Thattallgirl:
The only way u can be righteous or receive abundance of His grace is by humbling yourself and believe you are already righteous in Christ Jesus and stop trying to win God over. Cos my dear, you'll wear yourself out.

Again, you continue to side-step that which Jesus Christ has commanded. According to Jesus Christ, the only way to become one of His, to be worthy of Him, is to do exactly as He has commanded. The same Jesus Christ spoke clearly when He said only those who become like children in their thinking(not behaviour or mannerism) will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. The same went on to make clear in Matthew 25 vs 31-40, the very works that will be carried out by those who will enter into His kingdom. So, how come you ignore the very words of Jesus Christ just so you can continue to spew these non-truths(words that Jesus Christ, the one who went before us, proclaimed as Truth)?

Thattallgirl:
If u still don't understand or think I'm wrong, I ask u to stop being adamant and think about what I've said and check the scriptures out for yourself. God bless u.

I am being adamant by choosing to believe the words of Jesus Christ as He commanded?

Kobojunkie:
You instead miscontrued the message in the portion you quoted. The scripture you quoted in no way informs that there is no work for you to do, as one who believes in Jesus Christ, should Heaven in fact be your goal.
You still did not quote the right blocks from the book.
What I have come to realize is that many of you who talk a lot about this so-called new covenant of Grace do not even understand what the covenant refers to and what Grace in the covenant means.
First of all, we are not called to believe in Abraham or become like Abraham, no! We are called to believe in Jesus Christ and obey Jesus Christ. So, let's leave Abraham out of this for now.
Second, the one who is the New Covenant, the one who came full of the grace that you all talk about, is Jesus Christ, and the same Jesus Christ declared that only those who obey Him and do as He commands, only they will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. It is His kingdom you intend you enter, is it not? And He is the Way into that Kingdom, the Truth that is that Kingdom and the (eternal life) that is given you for you to live to be saved from the condemnation that is the law of sin and death(from the days of Adam), is it not?
"What do you think that obedience is?" Jesus Christ laid out about 46 commandments, a part of the grace(resources that God has made available to help lead His own back to Him) that He was full of.. The New Covenant. What then do you think He meant when He said you should obey Him?
He even went as far as to tell you that He will abide only in those who abide in Him. What do you think He meant ?
Jesus Christ even posited that those who do not obey Him are not of Him. What do you think He meant?
The reason many Christians struggle is because rather than listen to, and do what Jesus Christ actually said, they instead listen to what men tell them of the man Jesus Christ, and do instead what they think is good, rather than obeying what Jesus Christ has in fact commanded of them.

When it comes to God and the things of God, Obedience remains the only key. There are many who will believe in Jesus Christ but will never see the gates of Heaven. Why? Because no matter how much you believe, what Jesus Christ said is what will be... after all.. He is the very truth of God, and no other "truth" out there can buy anyone a way into His Kingdom.
Again, you continue to side-step that which Jesus Christ has commanded. According to Jesus Christ, the only way to become one of His, to be worthy of Him, is to do exactly as He has commanded. The same Jesus Christ spoke clearly when He said only those who become like children in their thinking(not behaviour or mannerism) will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. The same went on to make clear in Matthew 25 vs 31-40, the very works that will be carried out by those who will enter into His kingdom. So, how come you ignore the very words of Jesus Christ just so you can continue to spew these non-truths(words that Jesus Christ, the one who went before us, proclaimed as Truth)?
I am being adamant by choosing to believe the words of Jesus Christ as He commanded?

Everything u said, I understand and you're right. I'm only saying that yea, we need to obey all the commandments that were given to us, but we can't successfully obey them on our own. Or can u successfully obey all the commandments? The answer is an obvious no. I'm saying that all of the commandments can only be fulfilled when we depend on Jesus to lead us cos it's even written that "I will write My laws in their hearts". That is what I'm talking about when I say the gospel of grace. And do u know what grace means? It means something u and I don't deserve, something we can't merit but is given to us as gifts (that's the gift of righteousness as it's written in Romans and not by any Pastor).
Lemme also ask, if u feel we all need to obey the commandments on our own, why are Christians still struggling to find favor with God? Instead of them to approach God cos through Christ, they are righteous, they feel they are already sinners and stay away. Again pls, Jesus is the way...the only way! To be righteous it is through Him! To obey Him it is through Him! To make Heaven it is through Him! To do anything it is through Him and not you! By saying u have to do something to make Heaven is by saying the way to make Heaven is through you! IT IS THROUGH JESUS AND JESUS ALONE! To obey all the commandments it is only through Him! And not you!

Thattallgirl:
Everything u said, I understand and you're right. I'm only saying that yea, we need to obey all the commandments that were given to us, but we can't successfully obey them on our own. Or can u successfully obey all the commandments? The answer is an obvious no. I'm saying that all of the commandments can only be fulfilled when we depend on Jesus to lead us cos it's even written that "I will write My laws in their hearts". That is what I'm talking about when I say the gospel of grace.

You are still dwelling on the wrong thing!

No one can become a follower of Jesus Christ without first obeying the commandments of Jesus Christ, fact! For you see, Jesus Christ set in place about 7 commandments for those who will want to become worthy of Him(become His follower). No one who believes can become a follower of Jesus Christ without obeying all seven commandments as evidenced in the case of the rich young man who had only one commandment left but found it too heavy to stomach.

Matthew 19 vs 16-12 (ESV)
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16. A man came to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to have eternal life?”
17. Jesus answered, “Why do you ask me about what is good? Only God is good. But if you want to have eternal life, obey the law’s commands.”
18. The man asked, “Which ones?”
Jesus answered, “‘You must not murder anyone, you must not commit adultery, you must not steal, you must not tell lies about others,
19. you must respect your father and mother,’[e] and ‘love your neighbor[f] the same as you love yourself.’[g]”
20. The young man said, “I have obeyed all these commands. What else do I need?”
21. Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, then go and sell all that you own. Give the money to the poor, and you will have riches in heaven. Then come and follow me!”
22. But when the young man heard Jesus tell him to give away his money, he was sad. He didn’t want to do this, because he was very rich. So he left.
23. Then Jesus said to his followers, “The truth is, it will be very hard for a rich person to enter God’s kingdom.
24. Yes, I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter God’s kingdom.”

The rich young man was clearly able to obey the rest but just could not get over the last one, and so he turned around and walked away from being a follower of Jesus Christ.

Is it impossible to obey the commandments that Jesus Christ has set before us? NO, it is not! Why do people believe it is? Because they have been lied to for so long that they cannot. Jesus Christ never told anyone that it is impossible to obey Him -- He NEVER SAID that. So where does the delusion that one cannot obey the commandments of God come from? It come from the many doctrines and rules that men have put forth...doctrines and rules that Jesus Christ warned so many against.

Thattallgirl:
And do u know what grace means? It means something u and I don't deserve, something we can't merit but is given to us as gifts (that's the gift of righteousness as it's written in Romans and not by any Pastor).

Wrong again! That is your pastors definiton of Grace.... not God's definition of Grace... and not what the bible has to say of Grace.

Again, the grace of God through Jesus Christ is the New Covenant (complete with commandments, blessings, curses, works that need to be done, promises etc. The Grace of God is the sum total of all the resources that God has made available to help lead you and I back onto the path that He set for us from before He made us... a path to lead us back to Him. In Jesus Christ, it is the new Covenant which He embodies, the yoke and burden that is made specifically for those who, once were condemned, but are now saved to eternal life, with the Grace offering the option of spending it in Heaven, rather than Hell.

I suggest you stop reading from the letters of Paul for a while. Focus on the gospels, reading them in full, as many times as it will take for you to understand what Jesus Christ, the New Covenant, in fact says about all you continue to pretend to speak of from Paul's point of view. Once you have sufficiently wrapped your mind around the words of Jesus Christ, then and only then will the message that Paul sought to convey will finally make sense to you, in light of the words of Jesus Christ. Grace is not a gift of righteousness. No, it is not, and I am afraid, Paul's words have been used for too long to lie to people about such things.

Thattallgirl:
Lemme also ask, if u feel we all need to obey the commandments on our own, why are Christians still struggling to find favor with God?

Struggling to find favor with God? But God is not a God of Favoritism. He shows His mercy and compassion on whom He will. Even Paul told you that. So why seek God's favor when such a thing is meaningless to begin with? So why? Because they have been lied to!

Thattallgirl:
Instead of them to approach God cos through Christ, they are righteous, they feel they are already sinners and stay away.

They are not righteous and so cannot approach God in their unrighteousness. You are made righteous in Jesus Christ through your obedience of Him, Jesus Christ. So if said persons do not obey Jesus Christ's commandments and Jesus Christ, according to His own words, does not abide in them, then how can they be righteous? Jesus Christ did say that if we CONTINUE to abide in Him, He will abide in us. Hence, if we refuse to or stop abiding in Him, He will no longer abide in us(The gospel of John chapter 14, 15, 16 and 17).

Again, people are being lied to in the name of God. No where does Jesus Christ tell anyone that He imparts righteousness to those who do not obey His commandment. It is clear that many of those who claim to believe in Jesus Christ do not have a good understanding of what righteousness is, why man's righteousness(good works) is filthy rags to God, and why the only righteousness(good works) that is acceptable to God is that which is done in obedience to and according to His commandments alone.

Thattallgirl:
Again pls, Jesus is the way...the only way! To be righteous it is through Him! To obey Him it is through Him! To make Heaven it is through Him! To do anything it is through Him and not you! By saying u have to do something to make Heaven is by saying the way to make Heaven is through you! IT IS THROUGH JESUS AND JESUS ALONE! To obey all the commandments it is only through Him! And not you!

Please find time to focus on reading each of the gospels, paying close attention to every word and action of Jesus Christ for He is the embodiment of the New Covenant, the grace, that many speak so much of. Be sure to note every time He commands that only those who do as He says will have a share in Him. Also be sure to write down every commandment that He puts forth. Maybe then you come back to tell us all which of the comamndments are impossible for any of us to obey.

Even the demons obey Him... why then is it impossible for one who claims to be submitted to Him to do the exact same?

Kobojunkie:
You are still dwelling on the wrong thing!

No one can become a follower of Jesus Christ without first obeying the commandments of Jesus Christ, fact! For you see, Jesus Christ set in place about 7 commandments for those who will want to become worthy of Him(become His follower). No one who believes can become a follower of Jesus Christ without obeying all seven commandments as evidenced in the case of the rich young man who had only one commandment left but found it too heavy to stomach.

The rich young man was clearly able to obey the rest but just could not get over the last one, and so he turned around and walked away from being a follower of Jesus Christ.

Is it impossible to obey the commandments that Jesus Christ has set before us? NO, it is not! Why do people believe it is? Because they have been lied to for so long that they cannot. Jesus Christ never told anyone that it is impossible to obey Him -- He NEVER SAID that. So where does the delusion that one cannot obey the commandments of God come from? It come from the many doctrines and rules that men have put forth...doctrines and rules that Jesus Christ warned so many against.
Wrong again! That is your pastors definiton of Grace.... not God's definition of Grace... and not what the bible has to say of Grace.

Again, the grace of God through Jesus Christ is the New Covenant (complete with commandments, blessings, curses, works that need to be done, promises etc. The Grace of God is the sum total of all the resources that God has made available to help lead you and I back onto the path that He set for us from before He made us... a path to lead us back to Him. In Jesus Christ, it is the new Covenant which He embodies, the yoke and burden that is made specifically for those who, once were condemned, but are now saved to eternal life, with the Grace offering the option of spending it in Heaven, rather than Hell.

I suggest you stop reading from the letters of Paul for a while. Focus on the gospels, reading them in full, as many times as it will take for you to understand what Jesus Christ, the New Covenant, in fact says about all you continue to pretend to speak of from Paul's point of view. Once you have sufficiently wrapped your mind around the words of Jesus Christ, then and only then will the message that Paul sought to convey will finally make sense to you, in light of the words of Jesus Christ. Grace is not a gift of righteousness. No, it is not, and I am afraid, Paul's words have been used for too long to lie to people about such things.

Struggling to find favor with God? But God is not a God of Favoritism. He shows His mercy and compassion on whom He will. Even Paul told you that. So why seek God's favor when such a thing is meaningless to begin with? So why? Because they have been lied to!
They are not righteous and so cannot approach God in their unrighteousness. You are made righteous in Jesus Christ through your obedience of Him, Jesus Christ. So if said persons do not obey Jesus Christ's commandments and Jesus Christ, according to His own words, does not abide in them, then how can they be righteous? Jesus Christ did say that if we CONTINUE to abide in Him, He will abide in us. Hence, if we refuse to or stop abiding in Him, He will no longer abide in us(The gospel of John chapter 14, 15, 16 and 17).

Again, people are being lied to in the name of God. No where does Jesus Christ tell anyone that He imparts righteousness to those who do not obey His commandment. It is clear that many of those who claim to believe in Jesus Christ do not have a good understanding of what righteousness is, why man's righteousness(good works) is filthy rags to God, and why the only righteousness(good works) that is acceptable to God is that which is done in obedience to and according to His commandments alone.
Please find time to focus on reading each of the gospels, paying close attention to every word and action of Jesus Christ for He is the embodiment of the New Covenant, the grace, that many speak so much of. Be sure to note every time He commands that only those who do as He says will have a share in Him. Also be sure to write down every commandment that He puts forth. Maybe then you come back to tell us all which of the comamndments are impossible for any of us to obey.

Even the demons obey Him... why then is it impossible for one who claims to be submitted to Him to do the exact same?

Wow! So it's possible to obey all of God's commandments on your own? So you're saying you've not committed one sin since u became a Christian?

Kobojunkie:
You are still dwelling on the wrong thing!

No one can become a follower of Jesus Christ without first obeying the commandments of Jesus Christ, fact! For you see, Jesus Christ set in place about 7 commandments for those who will want to become worthy of Him(become His follower). No one who believes can become a follower of Jesus Christ without obeying all seven commandments as evidenced in the case of the rich young man who had only one commandment left but found it too heavy to stomach.

The rich young man was clearly able to obey the rest but just could not get over the last one, and so he turned around and walked away from being a follower of Jesus Christ.

Is it impossible to obey the commandments that Jesus Christ has set before us? NO, it is not! Why do people believe it is? Because they have been lied to for so long that they cannot. Jesus Christ never told anyone that it is impossible to obey Him -- He NEVER SAID that. So where does the delusion that one cannot obey the commandments of God come from? It come from the many doctrines and rules that men have put forth...doctrines and rules that Jesus Christ warned so many against.
Wrong again! That is your pastors definiton of Grace.... not God's definition of Grace... and not what the bible has to say of Grace.

Again, the grace of God through Jesus Christ is the New Covenant (complete with commandments, blessings, curses, works that need to be done, promises etc. The Grace of God is the sum total of all the resources that God has made available to help lead you and I back onto the path that He set for us from before He made us... a path to lead us back to Him. In Jesus Christ, it is the new Covenant which He embodies, the yoke and burden that is made specifically for those who, once were condemned, but are now saved to eternal life, with the Grace offering the option of spending it in Heaven, rather than Hell.

I suggest you stop reading from the letters of Paul for a while. Focus on the gospels, reading them in full, as many times as it will take for you to understand what Jesus Christ, the New Covenant, in fact says about all you continue to pretend to speak of from Paul's point of view. Once you have sufficiently wrapped your mind around the words of Jesus Christ, then and only then will the message that Paul sought to convey will finally make sense to you, in light of the words of Jesus Christ. Grace is not a gift of righteousness. No, it is not, and I am afraid, Paul's words have been used for too long to lie to people about such things.

Struggling to find favor with God? But God is not a God of Favoritism. He shows His mercy and compassion on whom He will. Even Paul told you that. So why seek God's favor when such a thing is meaningless to begin with? So why? Because they have been lied to!
They are not righteous and so cannot approach God in their unrighteousness. You are made righteous in Jesus Christ through your obedience of Him, Jesus Christ. So if said persons do not obey Jesus Christ's commandments and Jesus Christ, according to His own words, does not abide in them, then how can they be righteous? Jesus Christ did say that if we CONTINUE to abide in Him, He will abide in us. Hence, if we refuse to or stop abiding in Him, He will no longer abide in us(The gospel of John chapter 14, 15, 16 and 17).

Again, people are being lied to in the name of God. No where does Jesus Christ tell anyone that He imparts righteousness to those who do not obey His commandment. It is clear that many of those who claim to believe in Jesus Christ do not have a good understanding of what righteousness is, why man's righteousness(good works) is filthy rags to God, and why the only righteousness(good works) that is acceptable to God is that which is done in obedience to and according to His commandments alone.
Please find time to focus on reading each of the gospels, paying close attention to every word and action of Jesus Christ for He is the embodiment of the New Covenant, the grace, that many speak so much of. Be sure to note every time He commands that only those who do as He says will have a share in Him. Also be sure to write down every commandment that He puts forth. Maybe then you come back to tell us all which of the comamndments are impossible for any of us to obey.

Even the demons obey Him... why then is it impossible for one who claims to be submitted to Him to do the exact same?

And like u said, I'll leave what Paul wrote for now and focus on what Jesus said alone, just as u said I should. Jesus said and I quote "I am the way, the truth, life and the resurrection. No one comes to the Father except through Me". (John 14:6)
Before I continue, pls stop explaining the gospel according to your own understanding and quote Bible passages that back every paragraph or point that u give to give me and others reading this a better understanding. If you're unable to find Bible passages to back every point u make, you're using your words and not God's words to back your points.

Before I continue giving epistle up and down, lemme ask u one question and pls give me a Bible passage that'll back your answer. If it is possible to obey all of God's commandments on your own o, without the help of Christ, why then did Christ die for u? I mean again, if it is possible to obey all those commandments in the Bible, it means u are without sin then. Why then did Christ have to die for your own sins? Cos I mean, you're keeping the commandments perfectly on your own.

Thattallgirl:
Wow! So it's possible to obey all of God's commandments on your own? So you're saying you've not committed one sin since u became a Christian?

Yet again your focus remains on the wrong things. Jesus Christ did not come that you and I might be sinless... No, He already saved us from the condemnation of sin(death), so why continue to focus on being sinless?

Man had been condemned to die for his sin from after the fall of man. So, yes, the punishment called "the wages of sin" has been in place since the days of Adam.
The Old covenant is the covenant that came with 613 statutes meant to have those who pursued it focused on living a sinless life. In that covenant, not only was sin defined, the laws were put in place to ensure that avoiding sin was top priority of everyone who lived under the old covenant.

The new Covenant which has only about 46 commandments is not meant to have you focused on living a sinless life. No, instead, top priority is obeying only that which Jesus Christ has commanded, and nothing else. In the New Covenant, we are called servants and God is our Master, and our goal is to do His Will(obey His commandment) and do the work He has called us all to do.

In the parable from Luke 12 vs 35- 48, Jesus Christ explains what is expected of us as servants of God. He does not in anywhere mention being sinless and the sort. No, instead He speaks of the servants as those who do the work which the Master expects of them and are found doing the very work even when the Master returns.

Luke 12 vs 35-48 (ERV)
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35. “Stay dressed for action[f] and keep your lamps burning,
36. and be like men who are waiting for their master to come home from the wedding feast, so that they may open the door to him at once when he comes and knocks.
37. Blessed are those servants[g] whom the master finds awake when he comes. Truly, I say to you, he will dress himself for service and have them recline at table, and he will come and serve them.
38. If he comes in the second watch, or in the third, and finds them awake, blessed are those servants!
39. But know this, that if the master of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he[h] would not have left his house to be broken into.
40. You also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.”

41. Peter said, “Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?”
42. And the Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time?
43. Blessed is that servant[i] whom his master will find so doing when he comes.
44. Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
45. But if that servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk,
46. the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful.
47. And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating.
48. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

We are not called by Jesus Christ to be sinless in our ways... no, we are called to do the work that He has set for us to do i.e. Obey His commandments.

Kobojunkie:
Yet again your focus remains on the wrong things. Jesus Christ did not come that you and I might be sinless... No, He already saved us from the condemnation of sin(death), so why continue to focus on being sinless?

Man had been condemned to die for his sin from after the fall of man. So, yes, the punishment called "the wages of sin" has been in place since the days of Adam.
The Old covenant is the covenant that came with 613 statutes meant to have those who pursued it focused on living a sinless life. In that covenant, not only was sin defined, the laws were put in place to ensure that avoiding sin was top priority of everyone who lived under the old covenant.

The new Covenant which has only about 46 commandments is not meant to have you focused on living a sinless life. No, instead, top priority is obeying only that which Jesus Christ has commanded, and nothing else. In the New Covenant, we are called servants and God is our Master, and our goal is to do His Will(obey His commandment) and do the work He has called us all to do.

In the parable from Luke 12 vs 35- 48, Jesus Christ explains what is expected of us as servants of God. He does not in anywhere mention being sinless and the sort. No, instead He speaks of the servants as those who do the work which the Master expects of them and are found doing the very work even when the Master returns.

We are not called by Jesus Christ to be sinless in our ways... no, we are called to do the work that He has set for us to do i.e. Obey His commandments.

Lol no no, let's not change the topic. You just said you've never sinned since u became a Christian?

Thattallgirl:
Lol no no, let's not change the topic. You just said you've never sinned since u became a Christian?

Those are your words, not mine! Like I said, Jesus Christ has not called any of us to living a "sinless" life. The very idea is a lie that again stems from the doctrines of rules of men, and not Jesus Christ.

Kobojunkie:
Those are your words, not mine!

But u said it's possible to obey all commandments on your own. I asked if you've not sinned since u became a Christian. I really need an answer to that pls. You seem so perfect! Just like the rich ruler

Thattallgirl:
But u said it's possible to obey all commandments on your own.

Can you please post one commandment that Jesus Christ gave that is IMPOSSIBLE to obey?

Kobojunkie:
Those are your words, not mine! Like I said, Jesus Christ has not called any of us to living a "sinless" life. The very idea is a lie that again stems from the doctrines of rules of men, and not Jesus Christ.

So Christ saying "I am the way", which clearly shows that in obeying God, it can only be through Christ our Helper, is a doctrine from men? Wow!

Kobojunkie:
Can you please post one commandment that Jesus Christ gave that is IMPOSSIBLE to obey?

Lol why are u ignoring my question na. I asked so you've never sinned since u became a Christian?

Thattallgirl:
So Christ saying "I am the way", which clearly shows that in obeying God, it can only be through Christ our Helper, is a doctrine from men? Wow!

Please help me see how Jesus Christ saying " He is the way", connects to the doctrine of "You have to be sinless"?

Thattallgirl:
Lol why are u ignoring my question na. I asked so you've never sinned since u became a Christian?

Remember, I said the doctrine of sinlessness is not of Jesus Christ, so understand then that the question you keep asking amounts to nothing but "meaninglessness" as far as my relationship with Jesus Christ.

Kobojunkie:
Please help me see how Jesus Christ saying " He is the way", connects to the doctrine of "You have to be sinless"?

This guy you're misinterpreting me o. All I am saying and have been saying again and again is that we can only be made perfect and complete through Christ Jesus. Abi is that not what Christianity is about? Christianity is all about Jesus and not us. You think it is easy not to lie? Or easy not to commit sin? I'm only saying that we can ONLY obey all the commandments through Jesus.
Abi wait first lemme ask another question. Are u saying we can obey all the commandments without Jesus?

Thattallgirl:
This guy you're misinterpreting me o. All I am saying and have been saying again and again is that we can only be made perfect and complete through Christ Jesus.

Oh boy! You keep bringing up words that are miscontrued here and there.
The passage below is what Jesus Christ commands for us to do as far as being perfect is concerned. According to Him, we are to love our enemies and pray for them.

Matthew 5 vs 43-48 (ERV)
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43. “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[k] and hate your enemy.’
44. But I tell you, love your enemies. Pray for those who treat you badly.
45. If you do this, you will be children who are truly like your Father in heaven. He lets the sun rise for all people, whether they are good or bad. He sends rain to those who do right and to those who do wrong.
46. If you love only those who love you, why should you get a reward for that? Even the tax collectors do that.
47. And if you are nice only to your friends, you are no better than anyone else. Even the people who don’t know God are nice to their friends.
48. What I am saying is that you must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Is this an impossible task that Jesus Christ has commanded of His followers?

If by complete you mean our eventual transformation into clones of Jesus Christ, that work is not ours but the work of the Spirit of God who lives in those who believe and obey Jesus Christ. Our focus is and always should be, as followers of Jesus Christ, is to obey.

Thattallgirl:
Abi is that not what Christianity is about? Christianity is all about Jesus and not us. You think it is easy not to lie? Or easy not to commit sin? I'm only saying that we can ONLY obey all the commandments through Jesus.

I keep saying this.... you are still focused on living a sinless life when Jesus Christ never called His followers to set such goals for themselves.

Thattallgirl:
Abi wait first lemme ask another question. Are u saying we can obey all the commandments without Jesus?

Let's start with one example of the commandments you refer to. Post one of them so I can see and we can maybe discuss the feasibility of such.

In the old covenant days(before the days of Jesus Christ) do you know that there were those who were able to obey the commandment of God?

Kobojunkie:
Oh boy! You keep bringing up words that are miscontrued here and there.
The passage below is what Jesus Christ commands for us to do as far as being perfect is concerned. According to Him, we are to love our enemies and pray for them.

Is this an impossible task that Jesus Christ has commanded of His followers?

If by complete you mean our eventual transformation into clones of Jesus Christ, that work is not ours but the work of the Spirit of God who lives in those who believe and obey Jesus Christ. Our focus is and always should be, as followers of Jesus Christ, is to obey.
I keep saying this.... you are still focused on living a sinless life when Jesus Christ never called His followers to set such goals for themselves.
Let's start with one example of the commandments you refer to. Post one of them so I can see and we can maybe discuss the feasibility of such.

In the old covenant days(before the days of Jesus Christ) do you know that there were those who were able to obey the commandment of God?

Lol not one person was able to obey the commandments in the old testament. If u have a passage in the Bible saying someone did pls tell me. If they were able to obey all the commandments in the old testament, there wouldn't be need for killing of animals to cleanse them and make them righteous. They all depended on the shedding of animals to cleanse away their sins cos not one of them were able to obey all the commandments perfectly. Isn't it why the Israelites still went back to worshipping idols even though according to the commandments, they weren't supposed to? Ordinary " don't eat the fruit", Adam and Eve weren't able to obey...is it now the commandments that are over 30 we humans can perfectly obey?
Even Abraham and other prophets, even David sef, as God loved him so much, still sinned when he slept with Bathsheba. I'm only saying again, that as the Israelites depended on the blood of animals to make them righteous, is the way we in the new testament should depend on the blood of Jesus to make us righteous. It's Bible words not mine or any Pastor.

Thattallgirl:
Lol not one person was able to obey the commandments in the old testament. If u have a passage in the Bible saying someone did pls tell me. If they were able to obey all the commandments in the old testament, there wouldn't be need for killing of animals to cleanse them and make them righteous. They all depended on the shedding of animals to cleanse away their sins cos not one of them were able to obey all the commandments perfectly. Isn't it why the Israelites still went back to worshipping idols even though according to the commandments, they weren't supposed to? Ordinary " don't eat the fruit", Adam and Eve weren't able to obey...is it now the commandments that are over 30 we humans can perfectly obey?

They all depended on the shedding of animal blood for the cleansing of their sins? I am afraid you have lost me there. The rituals which you describe as the shedding of blood where part and parcel of the commandments of the old testament. So, why conclude that none of them were able to obey the commandments if the rituals were themselves commandments which they had to obey?

Thattallgirl:
Even Abraham and other prophets, even David sef, as God loved him so much, still sinned when he slept with Bathsheba. I'm only saying again, that as the Israelites depended on the blood of animals to make them righteous, is the way we in the new testament should depend on the blood of Jesus to make us righteous. It's Bible words not mine or any Pastor.

Abraham and other prophets did sin, yet God declared them righteous and did not condemn them to death, even with Jesus Christ not being in the picture then?
Maybe you should read what God said in the book of Ezekiel chapter 18 concerning sin and death -- yes, God repeated His statement on who will die and who will live there, and obviously God believed there were those who did not sin against Him, because they obeyed Him.

Kobojunkie:
They all depended on the shedding of animal blood for the cleansing of their sins? I am afraid you have lost me there. The rituals which you describe as the shedding of blood where part and parcel of the commandments of the old testament. So, why conclude that none of them were able to obey the commandments if the rituals were themselves commandments which they had to obey?
Abraham and other prophets did sin, yet God declared them righteous and did not condemn them to death, even with Jesus Christ not being in the picture then?
Maybe you should read what God said in the book of Ezekiel chapter 18 concerning sin and death -- yes, God repeated His statement on who will die and who will live there, and obviously God believed there were those who did not sin against Him, because they obeyed Him.

You just said Abraham and the prophets did sin but God still declared them righteous. Why do u think that is? It cos they believed God and just like Abraham, it was declared to them as righteousness.

You said I lost u in the shedding of animal blood. I suggest to open your Bible to Leviticus chapter 4, where it clearly says "The Lord said to Moses, say to the Israelites: when anyone SINS..." Sin offering is a commandment ONLY when they sinned. Someone who didn't sin, wouldn't need to do sin offering. But as humans, they couldn't keep all the commandments, nobody could, and that's why there was the need for sin offering. Which shows that they depended on the shedding of innocent animals' blood, before God saw them as righteous. In Deuteronomy 28, God Himself says those who obey His laws (who are righteous by the shedding of animals' blood) would receive all the blessings in that chapter. And that's what I'm saying. That as they depended on the blood of animals back then to be righteous, so are we to depend on the blood of Jesus to be righteous.

Thattallgirl:
Well, I quoted scriptures in the Bible to back up everything I said earlier. Does that mean the scriptures I quoted are wrong?
You said I should go back to my Bible where it'll show me all I need to "achieve" to make Heaven, and I did. I quoted them already!
Lol and u said only those who "do the works of righteousness" will make Heaven. I dunno where that is in the Bible. Pls tell me. Cos even Abraham (being in the old covenant) believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. Abraham wasn't righteous cos he was the best or he served God the best or cos he did "some works", he was righteous simply cos he believed God. And now, under the new covenant of Grace(Unmerited Favor), if u think u can become righteous by your own works, why then did Christ die? You think He died just for your sins to be forgiven. My dear, I recommend u read Romans and Galatians more, and meditate on them.
And yes! God hates disobedience, and Christ said only those who obey Him will abide in Him. And what do u think that obedience is? He said it in John 3:16.

It's why many Christians are struggling thinking they can buy God's righteousness by doing this and doing that. Sometimes u hear "if u want to receive God's blessings, do these things or do those things". After doing all those things, do they still get the blessings? No! They don't because they feel they can merit or deserve God's righteousness which brings blessings.

The only way u can be righteous or receive abundance of His grace is by humbling yourself and believe you are already righteous in Christ Jesus and stop trying to win God over. Cos my dear, you'll wear yourself out.

If u still don't understand or think I'm wrong, I ask u to stop being adamant and think about what I've said and check the scriptures out for yourself. God bless u.

It seems you don't read the gospels of jesus christ. Jesus told us to do works to enter his kingdom. Matthew 25v31-46, Matthew 5, etc.

GeneralDae:

It seems you don't read the gospels of jesus christ. Jesus told us to do works to enter his kingdom. Matthew 25v31-46, Matthew 5, etc.

And like I told others previously, yes we need to obey all the commandments. I only said we can only obey His commandments perfectly through Jesus. He alone make us perfect and righteous in God's eyes.

Thattallgirl:
You just said Abraham and the prophets did sin but God still declared them righteous.

I only repeated what you said as far as their sins are concerned.

Thattallgirl:
Why do u think that is? It cos they believed God and just like Abraham, it was declared to them as righteousness.

Are you suggesting then that God was wrong for punishing Adam then, since Adam did believe in God, only he disobeyed God. Is God wrong for swearing on His name that only the soul that sins will die, in Ezekiel 18?

Thattallgirl:
You said I lost u in the shedding of animal blood. I suggest to open your Bible to Leviticus chapter 4, where it clearly says "The Lord said to Moses, say to the Israelites: when anyone SINS..." Sin offering is a commandment ONLY when they sinned. Someone who didn't sin, wouldn't need to do sin offering. But as humans, they couldn't keep all the commandments, nobody could, and that's why there was the need for sin offering. Which shows that they depended on the shedding of innocent animals' blood, before God saw them as righteous. In Deuteronomy 28, God Himself says those who obey His laws (who are righteous by the shedding of animals' blood) would receive all the blessings in that chapter. And that's what I'm saying. That as they depended on the blood of animals back then to be righteous, so are we to depend on the blood of Jesus to be righteous.

You lost me when you claimed that they could not obey the commandments and so had to carry out the sin/cleansing rituals, which as it turns out, are themselves part of the commandments in the same Old Covenant.