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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / The Right Definition Of Righteousness (1467 Views)
Why Did Christ Teachings Emphasize Works Of Righteousness And Not Grace? / Jesus Says We Can Attain Eternal Life By Our Works Of Righteousness / Rewards Of Righteousness (2) (3) (4)
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by Thattallgirl(f): 9:54pm On Oct 10, 2020 |
Kobojunkie:Hey, I didn't write the Bible. I'm only quoting what was written that Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. And when Adam sinned, God couldn't behold sin and sent Adam out of His presence. Even as Abraham was righteous in God's eyes, He still couldn't be as close to God (physically) as Adam was before he sinned. The sin offering isn't the type of commandments that every person must follow. Only those who sinned needed to follow it, which was EVERYBODY. As for the sin offering, pls read the Bible verse I quoted, I didn't write the Bible. You need to read it yourself cos it clearly shows that the only way the Israelites were righteous in God's eyes was if they performed the sin offering...and pls what is sin offering? It is what they had to perform to be righteous...I really can't believe you dunno this. Even in Sunday school sef, or rather ask anyone, check your Bible too... Israelites depended on the blood of animals for the forgiveness of their sins. They wouldn't need to do that if they were already righteous. It's the same way right now, we are to depend on the blood of Jesus to be righteous in God's eyes. Only THROUGH JESUS can we obey ALL of God's commandments without struggling. I think I have explained this exactly as I read it in the Bible. I dunno why you're taking one part of the Bible and ignoring the others. We all learn every day. No one is fully grown in the knowledge of Christ. If u feel you're righteous cos u can successfully obey the commandments on your own without the help of Jesus, THE HELPER Himself, then I wish u the best in your knowledge. Cos to u, you know all, and even the Bible passages that are written in English isn't still enough to make u understand. |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by GeneralDae: 10:01pm On Oct 10, 2020 |
Thattallgirl:What do you mean by obeying the commandments through jesus? Jesus has given us principles and commandments to obey if we want to do the will of God. Anyone who is willing to obey the commandment is already in jesus. The first step for anyone is to desire to do the will of God, and then God automatically brings the person to jesus, this is why the scriptures say "They shall be all taught by God". Read John 6v44-45 |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by Thattallgirl(f): 10:03pm On Oct 10, 2020 |
GeneralDae:So you're saying since you've been a Christian, you've obeyed all the commandments perfectly? Not sinned once? |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by GeneralDae: 10:07pm On Oct 10, 2020 |
Thattallgirl:What is important here is desiring to do the will of God, if you desire that then the spirit of christ would come to you to show you the way to God and christ, he would help you along the way, but the decision and willingness to keep the commandments lie in you. The commandments of jesus are not impossible to keep, they were given so they can be kept else why would christ waste his time teaching them in the first place. |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by GeneralDae: 10:13pm On Oct 10, 2020 |
Thattallgirl God has given us the teachings of jesus and the Holyspirit to boost in order for us to strive to live out those teachings of the kingdom of God. These include the beautitudes ( Matthew 5) and several other teachings scattered throughout the gospels. Jesus wants you to obey his teachings and he knows that you can obey them "Why do you call me lord, lord, and not do what I say"; |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by Thattallgirl(f): 10:21pm On Oct 10, 2020 |
GeneralDae:Lol u didn't answer my question. That aside, the willingness to obey His commandments starts with "I receive Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior. He's the one to guide me and write His laws in my hearts" cos as easy as the commandments are, no one can fulfill them. Jesus knew that no one can fulfill the commandments on their own that's why He said that He has come to fulfill the law (commandments) Matthew 5:17. Are u saying Jesus was lying when said He has come to fulfill the law instead of abolishing it? He's simply saying that the commandments can only be fulfilled through Him cos He has fulfilled the law for us. Read further in the chapter, He said anyone who breaks a little law, will be least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But we humans break the law a lot. The only way we can fulfill the law is through Jesus and that is the gospel!!! Cos He has fulfilled it for is Matt5:17...read it yourself! This isn't the word of a pastor, this is Jesus' word!!! I repeat, NO ONE CAN FULFILL THE LAW EXCEPT THROUGH JESUS!!! If u feel that's not the truth and that it's not Jesus' word, then I wish u the best in your knowledge! |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by Thattallgirl(f): 10:22pm On Oct 10, 2020 |
GeneralDae:Sigh, and like I asked u earlier, can u successfully obey all the commandments yourself? |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by Kobojunkie: 10:25pm On Oct 10, 2020 |
Thattallgirl:I know Paul is the one who wrote that but I don't think you completely grasp what Paul was saying in that at all for you to then conclude that Abraham did not obey God's commandments to Him in any way to be considered righteous by God. Thattallgirl:So God couldn't behold sin when Adam sinned but somehow that changed with others like Abraham, and the prophets, who according to you did sin but God still declared righteous? Are you suggesting that God somehow favoured Abraham, and the prophets over those like Adam and others who were condemned for their sins? Thattallgirl:Oh, I never said I didn't know of the sin rituals. I know them and I know very well that they are themselves commandments, not separate from the Old Covenant as they make up a part of the 613 statutes of the old Covenant. So again, if the sin offerings are themselves commandments which have to be carried out for when one breaks other commandments, are they still not, by carrying out the sin rituals, in obedience of the very commandments of God? Thattallgirl: Wait a second... The sin offering was for the sake of cleansing them of their sins, and absolving them of the condemnation that is sin and death, is that not the case? Basically, according to God the sin offering was to make them holy. Holiness is not the same thing as Righteousness! Thattallgirl:Where does Jesus Christ tell you to depend on His blood for righteousness? Jesus Christ Never said that! In fact His death on the cross has been greatly miscontrued by the many who pretend that they can cook up doctrines outside of that which Jesus Christ taught. He died to save us from the condemnation that is sin and death... sort of like in the same way as the old covenant sin offerings/rituals, only this time permanently. Those who believe in Him are no longer condemned to die , as they gain eternal life as a result of their believing in Him. That is the salvation that He brought all those who believe in Him, as detaile din John 3 vs 16 - 20. So, now that one has been saved from the condemnation that is sin and death.. i.e. one now has eternal life, what next? That is where the New Covenant that is the grace of God through Jesus Christ comes in. Thattallgirl:Righteousness is not a feeling... it is not something that is you. And Jesus Christ was not wrong in commanding His followers to obey Him. He was not sending them on some fools errand. You admit that even those in the old covenant knew to obey commandments(the ones regarding the sin offerings included) yet you continue to believe it next to impossible for someone to carry the light yoke that Jesus Christ has placed before them and bear the easy burden that is Jesus Christ? ![]() |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by GeneralDae: 10:42pm On Oct 10, 2020 |
Thattallgirl:What commandments are you talking about? Loving my enemies the way God loves his enemies and doesn't remove his sun from the city of the wicked, but rather makes it shine on all nevertheless? I desire to love that way and I do my best to be that loving exactly like my Heavenly Father in that context. What other commandment? clothing the homeless and feeding the hungry? ( Matthew 25v41)? I can't totally judge myself, but I know that the commandments have been given for me to keep. Tell me why would God give us commandments he knows we can never completely keep? He wants us to obey his teachings in order to enter the kingdom of heaven. |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by GeneralDae: 10:51pm On Oct 10, 2020 |
Thattallgirl:The willingness to do the will of God is something anyone can decide from anywhere. Receiving jesus as lord and personal saviour is all about obeying his teachings. You can only call him lord when you follow his way. It's not about stating a formula, it's about the state of your heart and how you desire to start living a life of faith ( which is the true life of righteousness). The teachings of christ teach us to strive for the narrow way ( be different), to forgive even 70 times 7, to press on, and this is the faith that pleases God ( not necessarily quoting the formula of accepting jesus as lord). It is not about what you feel or quote with your mouth, but what you desire to do and how you desire to become. Desiring to do the will of God does not start with accepting jesus as lord and saviour, rather it starts with Hunger and thirst for righteousness. Blessed are those that hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled. |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by tobechi74: 11:00pm On Oct 10, 2020 |
Opposite of wrongness |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by Thattallgirl(f): 1:20am On Oct 11, 2020 |
Kobojunkie and GeneralDae, and any other person that may oppose what I posted, I'm just going to say these and leave u be, except those who want to understand more of all I've posted and want to ask more questions and not oppose. You guys have said all u "know" to be right, some of which has no Bible backing but only based on your understanding of what is right or wrong. First I'd love for u to read Hebrews 8:8-12, also read where Jesus Himself said with His mouth that He has fulfilled the law. It's always easy actually for Christians to follow routines which end up wearing them out and putting them in bondage. As for me, whether u agree or not, I AM THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN CHRIST JESUS (2 Corinthians 5:21) and I have been made righteous forever, not because of my works or cos I'm trying to keep the commandments which I know I can't keep, but I am righteous simply because Christ Himself has made me righteous by the shedding of His blood! Through Jesus and Jesus alone, I can approach God with all confidence and happiness no matter the situation I'm in. I remember a time I wore a short gown out. Christians would condemn me and say if I wear it I'll go to hell. But I remembered that I prayed to God as my Father, He is my Dad and I'm His child, His beloved! I told Him I wanted to wear it and I went ahead to wear it. Before I got halfway to my destination, I felt uncomfortable and didn't like what I wore. From inside out, I was naturally renewed and since then, I never wore that short gown out again. Another true story of a girl who got born again and told her pastor she still wanted to be a dancer. What would the average pastor say? He'd say if she dances she'll go to hell and burn. The pastor told her to go ahead but continue having a relationship with God. I think few days later, she came back to the pastor and said she doesn't feel like dancing anymore. That's what I'm saying! That's what the Bible says in Hebrews 8:8-10. Since I've had this revelation of who I am in Christ and that whenever I make a mistake, I believe that I'm still righteous in God's eyes only because of the blood of Jesus, since then, I've been extremely free in Christ. My relationship with God has been way better. I've even recently received the gift of the Spirit which I was unable to receive before. Naturally, the urge to sin isn't there, naturally I'm loving my neighbor as I love myself, naturally, I'm loving God with all my heart, soul, and mind. Naturally, I don't feel the urge to fornicate cos I know God loves me so much that He doesn't want me to get hurt or get a disease or be yoked together with someone who isn't God's choice for me. If u feel you guys can keep all the commandments yourself without Jesus, then fine! But as for me o, I'm completely leaning on Jesus for guidance and for everything. Ordinary to cross road which I find it difficult to do, I ask the Holy Spirit or my angel to help me, and I just find it easy to do. There was a time an elderly woman held my hands to cross ![]() That's the freedom in Christ I'm referring to. It is written in Psalm 23 that He will prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies...lol that means He will cook and set the table for me, while I sit and enjoy all that God planned for me...that is RESTING in Christ and not doing your best to make Christ do it for u. We're to rest in Him while He works for our good. I've been completely free and in peace since I had this revelation and it is not based on man's words, every scripture I quoted are in the Bible for u all to see. Enjoy your own self efforts o...lol...I'll be enjoying in God's Unmerited Favor that I do not deserve but yet receive cos of Jesus' precious blood. Lastly, I won't reply any more mentions if it's to oppose anything I've posted, except you need me to explain more or ask questions about what I've posted. Have a lovely week! 2 Likes |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by GeneralDae: 7:48am On Oct 11, 2020 |
Thattallgirl:I understand you perfectly, and I agree with you. Keeping commandments of touch not, taste not, wear not, is not what I call righteousness either. Rather keeping commandments in the new covenant is a different ball game altogether, these are active commandments that when kept, demonstrate your faith e.g 1) Do unto others what you would have them do unto you. These are the law and the prophets. 2) A new commandment I give unto you, love one another as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than these, than that he should give his life for his friends. 3) If you love only those who love you, what reward have you for even the heathen ( who don't know God) do thesame, but love as your heavenly father who allows his sun to shine on both the good and evil. Etc Etc. My point is that the teachings of jesus in the gospels are given to Christians to be consciously followed and kept and they are not burdensome. The teachings of jesus doesn't tell us about wearing short skirt or not wearing short skirts Apostle paul and the book of Hebrews spoke mostly about not being justified by the old testament laws and mundane religous laws of touch not, wear not, taste not, which do not demonstrate faith but were rather laws given to seperate the children of Isreal, they are laws given to us as children. But now that we are grown up, we must keep the laws of christ ( which are the laws of faith) and that becomes righteousness. Read the four gospels first in order to understand the epistles better and the context in which paul wrote most of his letters, evaluate the epistles by the gospels and not the other way round, this is why you fail to get where I am coming from. |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by GeneralDae: 7:57am On Oct 11, 2020 |
If u feel you guys can keep all the commandments yourself without Jesus, then fine! But as for me o, I'm completely leaning on Jesus for guidance and for everything. Ordinary to cross road which I find it difficult to do, I ask the Holy Spirit or my angel to help me, and I just find it easy to do. There was a time an elderly woman held my hands to cross Thattallgirl, this is very good and we are to be led by the spirit in all we do, but the start point is in wanting to practice what christ have taught in the gospels and then to ask the spirit for help. I am not saying you shouldn't depend on the spirit to keep the commandments, but I am saying rather that it is your conscious willingness to keep the commandments of jesus by the help of the spirit, that sets you apart and makes you live by faith. When I say commandments of jesus, I am not necessarily speaking about do's and don't s like you find in the old covenant, but rather the commandments of jesus are active commandments, they are the commandments to be focussed on, and the spirit is also there for us to call on for help in that regards. Hope you got my point? Have a nice day and continue living in christ, cheers. |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by MrColdsweat: 4:40pm On Oct 11, 2020 |
Righteousness is simply doing what is right as a Christian. |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by Kobojunkiee: 9:03pm On Oct 11, 2020 |
MrColdsweat:That is not even close to the truth! |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by MrColdsweat: 9:10pm On Oct 11, 2020 |
Kobojunkiee: Educate me. What is righteousness? |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by Kobojunkiee: 10:10pm On Oct 11, 2020 |
MrColdsweat:Now where to begin? According to the passage below from Isaiah 64, Man's righteousness(good works) amounts to "filthy rags" were the things of God is concerned. But the same God honors those who do good works according to that which He has commanded. What does this mean? Every good work we can ever imagine of our own to achieve and do, will never amount to anything as far as God is concerned. But the good works that God Himself has commanded of us, those are the works of righteousness He wants and desires from us. |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by Kobojunkiee: 1:01am On Oct 12, 2020 |
Thattallgirl:The reason I don't post verses much is because many of you have already made up your minds,not based on what Jesus Christ is recorded to have said in the gospels, but on what you can pick and choose from your understanding of other comments regarding Jesus Christ's teachings. Thattallgirl:And here is what I mean! You pulled a passage from Hebrews, a letter directed at the Jewish believers of Paul's time, and you quote where Jesus Christ stated that He had come to fulfill the law, assuming next that Jesus Himself, the same one who is quoted in the passage below, did not bring to us a new law.
Thattallgirl:The words you quote there are Paul's words. But where did Jesus Christ Himself tell you that His righteousness is imparted to you? That is a question I asked you earlier. Remember, Jesus Christ is the Truth, so everything else you read, and your understanding of what you read, has to have backing/be grounded in the words of Jesus Christ, else it is a lie! You mentioned the Sin offering in a previous post, and the purpose of the offering, if you understood it well was to make people pure of sin, not make them righteous. Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the cross was to make pure, those who were already condemned by their sin. Righteousness is of the works we do in obedience to the commandment that have been laid before us. Thattallgirl:ROFLMAO!!! You think the God who created man and woman BUCK NAKED... the God who saw Adam and Eve runnig around in the garden of Eve with body swinging all the way in the wind, yet declaring His creation "good" is the one who told you not to wear a short gown? You have to be kidding! Wait a second... you don't believe that obeying God's commandments is the righteous offering He seeks from you but you would rather believe that not wearing a short dress or choosing not to dance is what God instead wants of you? LOL Again, What did Jesus Christ command? That is what matters... not the opinions of Paul as expressed in his letter to the hebrew believers, or the others. |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by robosky02(m): 1:59pm On Oct 20, 2020 |
Ok |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by Acehart: 12:32pm On Oct 22, 2020 |
Those who seem to contend with your view on this thread do not know that you, Joseph Pronce rather, speak of the doctrine of justification. J. Prince has the same controversy with many whose bane is his over-stretching the doctrine of justification to nullify the doctrine of sanctification. Who are those who contend mostly? they are those who misconstrue justification for sanctification. So, is it important for those who teach justification to state clearly that they speak of justifying faith, which saves a man? No! Rather those who can’t understand justification should return to the principles of salvation. It is also important that those who teach faith not to stretch it to the point that it nullifies the essence of sanctification. There are those who teach sanctification in the place of justification; Did the OP intend to teach sanctification rather than justification? If so, in the first place, whether it is wise to speak of faith as the one thing needful? and the only thing required, as many seem to do now-a-days in handling the doctrine of sanctification? -Is it wise to proclaim in so bald, naked, and unqualified a way as many do, that the holiness of converted people is by faith is only, and not at all by personal exertion? Is it according to the proportion of God's Word? I doubt it. That faith in Christ is the root of all holiness- Yes! that the first step towards a holy life is to believe on Christ- that until we believe we have not a jot of holiness- that union with Christ by faith is the secret of both beginning to be holy and continuing holy- that the life that we live in the flesh we must live by the faith of the Son of God-that faith purifies the heart- that faith is the victory which overcomes the world- that by faith the elders obtained a good report- all these are truths which no well-instructed Christian will ever think of denying. But surely the Scriptures teach us that in following holiness the true Christian needs personal exertion work as well as faith. The very same Apostle who says in one place, "The life that I live in the flesh I live by the faith of Son of God," says in another place, “I fight-I run -I keep under my body ; " and in other places, " Let us cleanse ourselves-let us labour, let us lay aside every weight." (Gal. ii. 20; 1 Cor.ix.26, 2 Cor. vii 1; Heb.iv 2 ; xii. 1) Moreover, the Scriptures nowhere teach us that faith sanctifies us in the same sense, and in same manner, that faith justifies us! Justifying faith is grace that "worketh not, “but simply trusts, rests, and leans on Christ. (Rom iv. 5 .) Sanctifying faith is a grace of which the very life is action: It “worketh by love," and, like a main-spring, moves the whole inward man.(Gal. v. 6.). After all, the precise phrase "sanctified by faith '' is only found once in the New Testament. As to the phrase “holiness by faith," I find it nowhere in the New Testament. (Without sounding contrary to you, in the matter of our justification before God, faith in Christ is the only thing needful. All that simply believe are justified.) Righteousness is imputed “to him that worketh not but believeth."(Rom. iv. 5 .). It is thoroughly Scriptural and right to say "faith alone justifies." But it is not equally Scriptural and right to say "faith alone sanctifies." It is either one or the other. We are frequently told that a man is "justified by faith without the deeds of the law," by St. Paul. But not once are we told that we are "sanctified by faith without the deeds of the law." (Here is your controversy with those men who seem to be against you). On the contrary, we are expressly told by St. James that the faith whereby we are visibly and demonstratively justified before man, is a faith which "if it hath not works is dead, being alone." (James ii. 17.) I may be told, in reply, that no one of course means to disparage "works” an essential part of a holy life. It would be well, however, to make this more plain than many, including your contenders here, seem to make it in these days. |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by Thattallgirl(f): 8:54am On Nov 04, 2020 |
Thattallgirl: |
Re: The Right Definition Of Righteousness by Thattallgirl(f): 10:16am On Nov 07, 2020 |
Thattallgirl:A reminder! |
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