you are brain dead and a stupid dumb asshole. Your life is finish,you will die ugly.

Mrbillionaire:
All these Edo who are good at nothing but robbery, cultism, prostitution, dey form heavy weight. Useless set of criminals. Ijaws are already encroaching on their small village; they will soon be conquered by Ijaws, it's a matter of time.

you are brain dead and a stupid dumb asshole. Your life is finish,you will die ugly.

thatigboman:
u have been making unsubstantiated claims all along. How did landlocked oyo have sea pirates?
Aworis are not yoruba. And lagos belongs to bini. Eko in bini language means "war camp"

Badagry and Porto Novo were Under the Alaafin of Oyo.

They were Part of the Oyo Empire

The Oyos fully understood the Economic Significance of Sea Ports and by the late 18th Century the Alaafin had Secured Badagry and Porto Novo for Oyo.
The Alaafin of Oyo had taken both Ports from the Dahomians as a Military ally of the Eguns.

Aare Oona KaKanfo Oyabi was an Indigene of Porto Novo (New Port) in Benin Republic which Yoruba called Ajase

The Aare Oona Kakanfo that Succeeded him was one of his Warlords and was also Stationed at Porto Novo (Ajase)

Awori Yoruba are descended from Olofin Ogunfunminire from Ile Ife , Grandson of Oduduwa


Eko was how Ijebu Pronounced Ereko after Ereko Market on the Lagos Island it is still there today.

Eko or Ereko means Field in Yoruba

and Ereko Ile describes an Island.

Christistruth00:


Badagry and Porto Novo were Under the Alaafin of Oyo.

They were Part of the Oyo Empire

Awori Yoruba are descended from Olofin Ogunfunminire from Ile Ife , Grandson of Oduduwa


Eko was how Ijebu Pronounced Ereko after Ereko Market on the Lagos Island .

Eko or Ereko means Field in Yoruba

and Ereko Ile describes an Island.

u can shaa deceive gullible people.
See how u just lied so smoothly. Deep down inside u, u know u are not saying the truth.

thatigboman:
u can shaa deceive gullible people.
See how u just lied so smoothly. Deep down inside u, u know u are not saying the truth.

There is Eko Ajala and Eko Ende in Osun State

Eko Ende was one of the locations of the 1878 Jalumi War.


The fact you lie all the time doesn't mean everyone is like you

Christistruth00:


Badagry and Porto Novo were Under the Alaafin of Oyo.

They were Part of the Oyo Empire

Awori Yoruba are descended from Olofin Ogunfunminire from Ile Ife , Grandson of Oduduwa


Eko was how Ijebu Pronounced Ereko after Ereko Market on the Lagos Island it is still there today.

Eko or Ereko means Field in Yoruba

and Ereko Ile describes an Island.

stop wasting your time on that ibo guy.

kiss the truth!

gregyboy:



What was the reason for the war,


Defeated and the oba of lagos wasnt sacked from his throne,


Even if am to accept this your skeptical defeat, one thing i know is before the war oba of lagos extented her political power over the egba and ijebu land

A dispute broke out which the oba of lagos failed to report to the oba of Benin for assistance and he was defeated in a tribal clash ,

Still doesn't remove the fact benin powers extended beyond egba and ijebu land and they paid tribute to the oba of benin

When the British came for annexation, the only stool they recognized was the oba of lagos, not egba or jebu

In 1851 Egba Abeokuta and Ijebu were the Overlords of Lagos Mainland 100% and they paid Tribute to nobody.

It was the Egba Christian's through Bishop Ajayi Crowther who went to Bukingham Palace to request Queen Victoria of England take over Lagos Island in Order to end King Kosoko's Slave trade.

Isheri,, Agege,Ikeja Area ,Iganmu were all busy paying tribute to the Egbas at Abeokuta when the British turned up.

Was the Alaafin of Oyo sacked from his throne because of Fulani in Ilorin. NO!

Tao11
Payment of tributes results from any of the following:

(1) To acknowledge defeat of the by the victor.

(2) To acknowledge patrilineal descent from the payee.

(3) To express gratitude for some magnificent support.[/b]

Yes... And the bolded is the only reason why Lagos paid tributes to Benin .... The circumstances afterwards which I'd soon talk abt explains it better

In your last mention, which I am already preparing a devastating reply to, you concluded erroneously that the presence of Bini armed men in one of the [fenced] settlements of Lagos island does necessarily mean that the Binis settled on the island by conquering it militarily.

Nor be only devastate... Na demonstrate nko ...


Meanwhile as u bring up ur demonstrate reply, I already have a more crushing answer for anything u try to bring up

And To be more clear to u,... The town Ulsheimer was referring to was
1) A large town.... He specifically made this adjective to quantify the size of the town...and u can see it was no small town
2) It was called Lago...and not Lagos island or Lagos mainland or whatsoever u tend to call it
3) And in his last sentence , was where was used to control trade... Not iddo or ota or any other less important place u tend to mention

Also.... The presence of high number of foreign soldiers shows that the land where they are have been invaded and conquered by them...
When Germany defeated almost all of Europe, they had a high number of soldiers deposited everywhere which were governed by military commanders.. that's why the reconquest of Europe by Allied army took more than a year

Also in Nigeria during the civil war, as the Nigerian army took towns in the Southeast, They left a high number of soldiers present to govern their conquered property

Now do u understand what Ulsheimer meant in his statement?

Soldiers are mainly built for war hence when Josua Ulsheimer saw them there in high numbers, he saw no need to address them as not battle-ready or anyother thing u tend to console ur self with.

Also, he never mentioned that the soldiers participated in the trade because he didn't see such... He said that the soldiers behave in a very stately manner

Stately means imposing, grand, impressive, dignified, worthy of respect...

This means that he saw the soldiers as imposing on opponents, grand and they impressed him

So we can conclude that Lago, the Large town was used to control trade by Benin military commanders

Although, your conclusion (or equivalence) here is in itself an obvious fallacy as I will also show in details in my forthcoming reply; the report of Ulsheimer says absolutely nothing beyond the fact that the Bini armed men were confined to only one of the settlements on the island — while other settlements exist there on the island alongside the Binis‘ settlement.

Nothing is said in Ulsheimer’s report about them being in control of all the other settlements on the island. Nothing is said about why they were armed. 

Wrong... ..... The statement never said they were confined to that place as u have wrongly said... The statement said that
They live in the large town of Lago which the Benin soldiers made specifically for themselves... This means that this was their base... And now, if this town on the island was large, consider how small other settlements would be

When the British were colonising Africa, they had places specifically meant for them to live... They never mixed with the ordinary African.This is clearly shown in Apartheid govt of South Africa. But that never meant that they lost control over their conquered lands......

Same as Benin also. The land of Lago was their base... And They had influence in other places which was why people came specifically to Lago to trade and not iddo or any less profitable places because There would most likely be sanctions on them... This is True because according to Egharevba, who u said collected his sources independently, the land of Lago was a base used to control trade in that area...


Lol at the bolded, so the Benin soldiers will leave Benin 200km away to Lagos armed just to come and play kalo kalo with ur fathers...

U must be drunk

Ur Yorubas might do it but not Benin

Neither is anything said in the report of Ulsheimer about how they originally came to acquire that portion of the island that belonged to them.

Was it via a peaceful negotiation with the native land owners (the Aworis)? Or was it via a conquest from warfare? Nothing is said on this in Ulsheimer’s report.

Actually he didn't need to say it because it was very glaring that the land of Lago was conquered. ...

No where in the world do soldiers ever go into faraway place to negotiate land.... Except ur Yoruba tho .. they all go out to fight...not trade like ur yoruba soldiers do

Now if it was by peaceful negotiation as u have been crying out since, then kindly explain why during his Ulsheimer arrival, there was no account of any other ruler in the land of Lago...

This is because, there was none... . Infact none of the people who came to trade told him or gave him an hint that there was another independent ruler close by apart from the distant Oba of Benin

Also... before going further, think abt why Ashipa who ur Lagos account say he's an isheri chief had to seek the favor of the Oba to become king in the land - on ties of gratitude (clowns) - that was recorded to belong to the Benin in two different occasions

Again, the first sources to cast light on how the Binis came to acquire their portion of the island are the British colonial records of the late 1800s and early 1900s.

These records consistently maintain that the Binis originally acquired their share of the island by a mutual peaceful negotiation with the native owners.

No... Those were not the first sources... The First source abt Lagos historically was Josua Ulsheimer.....

The Next source that talked abt Lagos was the 1845 French book.....

The unique thing abt this two books is that they were present there..
and they acknowledged that the land "Lago" belonged to the Benin and its rulers from Benin or indirectly influenced by Benin

The sources u talk abt were mainly oral accounts from the people living there

And u know one thing abt oral history, it gets changed, modified and adulterated to suit personal interests, over the years.That's why eyewitness accounts are given more respect than oral stories

Infact, there are more oral stories that are lies or folktales that never existed

In the light of all these, it thus becomes clear that the idea that Lagos island paid those tributes as a way of acknowledging some defeat is in fact unsubstantiated.

Noo... Its infact substantiated not with oral stories like urs but eyewitness accounts, letters and experiences...

I'll dig deeper on that in my next post

Having said that, refer to the following comment which is a point-by-point refutation of the screenshot you attached.
———————

Well, also get ready to see a point-by-point devastation of ur every point

(A) The first highlight containing a statement along the lines that the Lagos dynasty came from an outside influence.

This statement from your 1975 attachment may actually be interpreted along two plausible lines:

(i) That Benin was simply instrumental in the founding of the Yoruba dynasty of Eko. [This interpretation would be in line with the extant Lagos account as published in the British colonial records].

(ii) Or that the first Eleko, Ashipa, is a Benin prince. [This interpretation would be in line with Egharevba’s later-day claims which he obviously didn’t gather from the earlier Lagos accounts].

Regardless of what is actually meant here, it must be borne in mind that the earliest source for the 2nd interpretation is the Benin Chief Egharevba in the 1950s.

In contrast, the earliest primary source for the 1st is the British colonial records of Lagos history collected and first published in the 1800s and then in the early 1900s.

The origin of ashipa is unknown or argued by both parties...
If the Benin were asked the same time, Lagos was asked, they would have still given the same answer as Egharevba did in the 1950s
... Irrespective of whatever his origin is , it doesn't change the fact that his becoming the first king of lago was as of the influence of the Oba of Benin



Now also according to Ulsheimer who I've said many times was present, he stated that Lago was inhabited by four commanders...

Its is very plausible that Esikpa would have come through Benin to rule the land rather than isheri...

In accordance with the eyewitness account who stated that Lago was only inhabited by Benin soldiers and commanders, it is very likely that Esikpa or Ashipa was from Benin

To sum this up, the Oba of Lagos aligns with my narrative

(ii) The other clarification-worthy statements under this second highlight is on tribute and official recognition.

This has been abundantly clarified in one of my replies to you elsewhere where I made it clear (and I quote here) that:

”The Lagos account [which you have nothing earlier than and contrary to] notes that Mr. Ashipa (the progenitor of the dynasty) was bound to the Benin monarchy “by ties of gratitude” 

In other words, consequent upon the success of backing Ashipa in asserting a monarchy (independent of the older Iddo island monarchy which used to control Lagos island too), the Benin government earned Ashipa‘s (and his successors’) unwavering loyalty.

Benin kings thus became the patron of the successive Elekos — earning remittances as well as the honor of officially recognizing successive Elekos.”

Now as I said earlier, the tributes paid was in acknowledgment of defeat to Benin and to show that they were still under the Benin Empire......
The many evidences say such...

Now this ur quotation 200 years after Ulsheimer says that ashipa asserted a monarchy independent of the iddo island which used to control the Lagos island...

From this, it is very clear that the author never got hold of the first eyewitness account dated 1603 and wrote word for word what a Lagos guy told him....

Now the first eyewitness who was present there specifically said In the land of Lago, lived none other than Benin soldiers and 4 military commanders

This goes to show that this land of Lagos had already been conquered or taken from Iddo by the Benin... And was expanding as time goes on...

Also as I said earlier, if the land was gotten with negotiation, Ulsheimer would have found out that there was another nearby independent island who gave the land to the Benin and would have written abt another bigger power in the land that where he visited either through the people who came to trade or by any other means possible as at that time

Lastly except u are dumb, no one leases land to an army who tried to attack u before...

This goes to show that The land Lagos was conquered and not negotiated(the presence of soldiers shows this)

So therefore in accordance with Ulsheimer account, the land of Lagos was conquered as at that time and the influence of Iddo weakened by the Benin government... Then 79 years later, the Oba decided to put a king there on the land he already conquered earlier and was expanding

Now to debunk ur claims of "ties of gratitude", watch out.. I'm going to do this with a timeline

1) 200 years after Benin made ashipa king, Lagos was still noted to be under the Benin Empire. An 1845 French account confirms this. It is translated as "The land "Lago" doesnt belong to them, it belongs to the Benin who applied the name "Korame" to it... In a later part of the excerpt it says "It continues to receive its governor and political officers from Benin"...

Note that this land here was referring to the town called Eko and everyone knows that the land was ruled by the Eleko of Eko who started his dynasty with the help of the Benin king.

So definitely this excerpt shows that "Lagos" or "Eko" was ruled indirectly by Benin.....

THIS 1845 FRENCH WORK ALSO DEBUNKS UR ORAL ACCOUNT WRITTEN LESS THAN 70 YEARS LATER THAT LAGOS STOPPED PAYING TRIBUTES IN 1830

2) In December 1850, Akitoye wrote a letter to the British (attachment below) where he clearly said that The Oba of Benin had the undisputed right to crown and confirm who the people of Lagos choose to become their king.

Note the keyword here is undisputed... Before we go further, let's define The term "undisputed" for ur understanding

The term Undisputed means unchallenged and accepted without question...

It is important to know that the Oba didn't use the term "ceremonial" but rather "undisputed" to make the Queen of England understand the powerful status of the oba of Benin concerning the politics of Lagos

So clearly.. Oba Akitoye clearly said that the Oba of Benin had the unquestionable and unchallenged right to choose whosoever he wants to become the next Oba of Lagos

This corroborates the first eyewitness account that says that the land of Lago continued to receive it political leaders and governors from Benin

And it also contradicts ur highly revered account of ties of gratitude

3)After Akitoye was deposed by kosoko(who was supposed to become king but wasn't because of his absence), Akitoye went into exile. Kosoko who was also chosen by the Oba of Benin became king.

One important event to show Lagos was under Benin Empire was sometime in 1851..

In November 1851 a British party met with Oba Kosoko to present a proposal of British friendly relations along with giving up the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade . The proposal was rejected by Kosoko "on the technical reason that Lagos was under the Oba of Benin and that it was only that Oba who could deal with foreign powers concerning the status of Lagos"

References:Sanya Onabamiro. Glimpses Into Nigerian History: Historical Essays . Macmillan Nigeria, 1983. p. 43.

L.C. Dioka ,Lagos and Its Environs. First Academic, 2001. p. 75.

In a federal system of government, only the federal government have the powers to deal with foreign powers and not the state....

In this case, the federal power was Benin and the state, Lagos. This kosoko just confirmed..

This goes to explain the influence of Benin over Lagos...

4)Later that year, when Kosoko successful repulsed the British attack, Consul John Beecroft wrote to the Oba of Benin declaring that "Kosoko, by opening fire on a flag of truce, had declared war on England" and therefore had to be replaced by Akitoye. He threatened that Kosoko had till the end of the month to surrender otherwise "Lagos would be totally destroyed by fire".

References:Robert Sydney Smith. The Lagos Consulate, 1851–1861 . University of California Press, 1979. p. 27.

5)In 1860, Kosoko persuaded the Oba of Benin to send messages to Dosunmu pressing him to allow Kosoko's return to Lagos. Dosunmu, now under British authority, refused this request and noted that things were "not as in former times when Lagos was under the King of Benin to whom annually a tribute was paid"

6)Tributes were found out to have been paid up til 1851 when kosoko was dethroned.. this is shown in the letter below

^{CO147/15 from glover to Kennedy of 17 February 1869 which states that for the beach East of Lagos "with the territory of Lagos, King kosoko paid tributes to the king of Benin until his return to Lagos in 1862 when he ceded his rights to the British Crown and the ambassador of Benin who up till this date had always resided with the king of Lagos returned to Benin called upon me to take their leave informing me that they had been recalled and that no ambassador would in future be accredited to Lagos"}

This excerpt above is a letter written by the British officials to each other stating what had happened in Lagos

7) On 4 March 1879, CO147/37, Governor Moloney reported to the colonial secretary another visit to Lagos by messengers from the oba of Benin who arrived in February and interviewed King Dosunmu and his chiefs as well as himself

References:Smith, Robert. The Lagos Consulate, 1851–1861 . University of California Press, 1979. p. 102.

These timelines more than enough shows proof that lagos continued to be influenced by Benin until the dethronement of kosoko

First of all, it must be made clear that the header of your attachment here is simply the title of the book (“The Lagos Consulate 1851 — 1861”). The book itself is a 1979 work.

The dates (1851 — 1861) here should therefore not be erroneously assumed to mean that we are looking at a document from 1851 — 1861. No. I suspect that this is your cunning intention here.

Secondly, the primary source which this statement (about conquest) goes to ... [is] not ... earlier than the later-day Benin claims of Chief Egharevba.

As I have demonstrated again and again, the earliest primary source which says a thing about how the Binis came to settle-in into Lagos states that:

They Binis settled-in into Lagos peacefully after their requested permission to land had been granted by the natives.

Cc: Ideadoctor, gomojam, id2019, djevino, 9jamustchange, BornRicch, Ddaji, J111333, excanny, Mysticwebb, Yebosola, Derrylatei, AustineJohn908, Cashsteady, owobokiri, forgiveness, bularaz, TimeManager, kilonshele101, 8BitGee, Daum, edo3, RuggedSniper, hicomm17, lionshare, ekesol, Demogorgon, Rumxy, Paganizonda, gwafaeziokwu, NGPatriot, macof, MelesZenawi, Christistruth00, thatigboman

The book rather is a compilation of major events that happened in Lagos between 1851 - 1861.. U need to stop deceiving ur self
.

Now with stunning evidences, experiences and timelines, that weak claim that Benin never influenced Lagos has been debunked...

The earliest source concerning lagos as shown is not the late 1800s account but rather the 1603 Josua Ulsheimer account which talked abt soldiers and not traders as ur Lagos account erroneously posted...

And that's why the Benin account has received more recognition by historians than the Lagos own not because of Yoruba population but rather because it corroborates the earliest known eyewitness account abt Lagos

Cheers

IN SUMMATION

1)Lagos was a vassal of Benin kingdom.

2)Lagos paid tributes till 1851 when kosoko was dethroned.

3) Benin had huge influence over the politics of the town called Lagos


Gregyboy Etrusen edeyoung Etrusen Samuk valirex areafada2

King Kosoko was on Lagos Island at Isale Eko
not Lagos Mainland where Ijebu and Egba were in 100% Control.

Isheri,, Agege,Ikeja Area ,Iganmu were all busy paying tribute to the Egbas at Abeokuta when the British turned up in 1851.


Even on Lagos Island Kosoko had no Authority over the Land which belonged to the Awori or over Ikoyi which belonged to the Onikoyi Royal family who were Ethnic Oyo Origin from Ikoyi in Osun State.

The Ikoyi Military Class were the Alaafin of Oyo's Cavalry.


It was the Egba Christian's and Ajayi Crowther that had invited the British to invade Lagos Island in Order to end King Kosoko's Slave trade

Many of the Egba Christian's and Ajayi Crowther had been freed Slaves themselves

Mrbillionaire:
All these Edo who are good at nothing but robbery, cultism, prostitution, dey form heavy weight. Useless set of criminals. Ijaws are already encroaching on their small village; they will soon be conquered by Ijaws, it's a matter of time.

Lol. The way they package theory of owning the universe ehn, you will think they just germinate from ground hahahahaha

thatigboman:
u can shaa deceive gullible people.
See how u just lied so smoothly. Deep down inside u, u know u are not saying the truth.

Someone that clearly doesn't read his posts...

One is bothered abt ijaw in Edo state whereas Fulani herdsmen are on the brink of taking over Oyo state with violence

forgiveness:


Interesting. Thanks

That post is clearly a lie... ..

The name of the site clearly shows that... He used ogedengbe site to prove ogedengbe ...


Besides no where in history will a warrior who is consistently gaining lands in an area stop becaus of mere gifts...


That story is a huge flattering lie

Christistruth00:


In 1851 Egba Abeokuta and Ijebu were the Overlords of Lagos Mainland 100% and they paid Tribute to nobody.

It was the Egba Christian's through Bishop Ajayi Crowther who went to Bukingham Palace to request Queen Victoria of England take over Lagos Island in Order to end King Kosoko's Slave trade.

Isheri,, Agege,Ikeja Area ,Iganmu were all busy paying tribute to the Egbas at Abeokuta when the British turned up.

Was the Alaafin of Oyo sacked from his throne because of Fulani in Ilorin. NO!

Benin controlled the entire lagos and gave Autonomy to local chiefs the Benin population wasnt much to spread much of her cultural influence but her political influences wasnt undermine

gregyboy:



Benin controlled the entire lagos and gave Anthony to local chiefs Benin population wasnt much to spread much cultural influence but are political influences wasn't undermine

Are you still trying to Claim Egba and Ijebu 100% Controlled Lagos Mainland ?

Even Lagos Island, Isale Eko the Oba of Lagos domain is on Awori Yoruba Land.


For the one thousandth time Oba of Lagos himself telling you with his own mouth at 5.45 Minutes "Benin are not the owners of Lagos'





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOsp9VLRFno


Get over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually, nobody can answer that question truthfully. Because there is absolutely no proof nor trace of whomever was the first ruler of lagos.
As I said, you don't know the meaning of history. You confuse myth with history.

This fool again! You are just full of yourself with nothing to show for it. I pity your students.

Etinosa1234:


Yes... And the bolded is the only reason why Lagos paid tributes to Benin .... The circumstances afterwards which I'd soon talk abt explains it better




Nor be only devastate... Na demonstrate nko ...


Meanwhile as u bring up ur demonstrate reply, I already have a more crushing answer for anything u try to bring up

And To be more clear to u,... The town Ulsheimer was referring to was
1) A large town.... He specifically made this adjective to quantify the size of the town...and u can see it was no small town
2) It was called Lago...and not Lagos island or Lagos mainland or whatsoever u tend to call it
3) And in his last sentence , was where was used to control trade... Not iddo or ota or any other less important place u tend to mention

Also.... The presence of high number of foreign soldiers shows that the land where they are have been invaded and conquered by them...
When Germany defeated almost all of Europe, they had a high number of soldiers deposited everywhere which were governed by military commanders.. that's why the reconquest of Europe by Allied army took more than a year

Also in Nigeria during the civil war, as the Nigerian army took towns in the Southeast, They left a high number of soldiers present to govern their conquered property

Now do u understand what Ulsheimer meant in his statement?

Soldiers are mainly built for war hence when Josua Ulsheimer saw them there in high numbers, he saw no need to address them as not battle-ready or anyother thing u tend to console ur self with.

Also, he never mentioned that the soldiers participated in the trade because he didn't see such... He said that the soldiers behave in a very stately manner

Stately means imposing, grand, impressive, dignified, worthy of respect...

This means that he saw the soldiers as imposing on opponents, grand and they impressed him

So we can conclude that Lago, the Large town was used to control trade by Benin military commanders


Wrong... ..... The statement never said they were confined to that place as u have wrongly said... The statement said that
They live in the large town of Lago which the Benin soldiers made specifically for themselves... This means that this was their base... And now, if this town on the island was large, consider how small other settlements would be

When the British were colonising Africa, they had places specifically meant for them to live... They never mixed with the ordinary African.This is clearly shown in Apartheid govt of South Africa. But that never meant that they lost control over their conquered lands......

Same as Benin also. The land of Lago was their base... And They had influence in other places which was why people came specifically to Lago to trade and not iddo or any less profitable places because There would most likely be sanctions on them... This is True because according to Egharevba, who u said collected his sources independently, the land of Lago was a base used to control trade in that area...


Lol at the bolded, so the Benin soldiers will leave Benin 200km away to Lagos armed just to come and play kalo kalo with ur fathers...

U must be drunk

Ur Yorubas might do it but not Benin



Actually he didn't need to say it because it was very glaring that the land of Lago was conquered. ...

No where in the world do soldiers ever go into faraway place to negotiate land.... Except ur Yoruba tho .. they all go out to fight...not trade like ur yoruba soldiers do

Now if it was by peaceful negotiation as u have been crying out since, then kindly explain why during his Ulsheimer arrival, there was no account of any other ruler in the land of Lago...

This is because, there was none... . Infact none of the people who came to trade told him or gave him an hint that there was another independent ruler close by apart from the distant Oba of Benin

Also... before going further, think abt why Ashipa who ur Lagos account say he's an isheri chief had to seek the favor of the Oba to become king in the land - on ties of gratitude (clowns) - that was recorded to belong to the Benin in two different occasions



No... Those were not the first sources... The First source abt Lagos historically was Josua Ulsheimer.....

The Next source that talked abt Lagos was the 1845 French book.....

The unique thing abt this two books is that they were present there..
and they acknowledged that the land "Lago" belonged to the Benin and its rulers from Benin or indirectly influenced by Benin

The sources u talk abt were mainly oral accounts from the people living there

And u know one thing abt oral history, it gets changed, modified and adulterated to suit personal interests, over the years.That's why eyewitness accounts are given more respect than oral stories

Infact, there are more oral stories that are lies or folktales that never existed

Noo... Its infact substantiated not with oral stories like urs but eyewitness accounts, letters and experiences...

I'll dig deeper on that in my next post



Well, also get ready to see a point-by-point devastation of ur every point



The origin of ashipa is unknown... Irrespective of whatever his origin is , it doesn't change the fact that his becoming the first king of lago was as of the influence of the Oba of Benin

According to Egharevba, Esikpa added more districts to the already large town of Lago

Now also according to Ulsheimer who I've said many times was present, he stated that Lago was inhabited by four commanders...

Its is very plausible that Esikpa would have come through Benin to rule the land rather than isheri...

In accordance with the eyewitness account who stated that Lago was only inhabited by Benin soldiers and commanders, it is very likely that Esikpa or Ashipa was from Benin

To sum this up, the Oba of Lagos aligns with my narrative




Now as I said earlier, the tributes paid was in acknowledgment of defeat to Benin and to show that they were still under the Benin Empire......
The many evidences say such...

Now this ur quotation 200 years after Ulsheimer says that ashipa asserted a monarchy independent of the iddo island which used to control the Lagos island...

From this, it is very clear that the author never got hold of the first eyewitness account dated 1603 and wrote word for word what a Lagos guy told him....

Now the first eyewitness who was present there specifically said In the land of Lago, lived none other than Benin soldiers and 4 military commanders

This goes to show that this land of Lagos had already been conquered or taken from Iddo by the Benin... And was expanding as time goes on...

Also as I said earlier, if the land was gotten with negotiation, Ulsheimer would have found out that there was another nearby independent island who gave the land to the Benin and would have written abt another bigger power in the land that where he visited either through the people who came to trade or by any other means possible as at that time

Lastly except u are dumb, no one leases land to an army who tried to attack u before...

This goes to show that The land Lagos was conquered and not negotiated(the presence of soldiers shows this)

So therefore in accordance with Ulsheimer account, the land of Lagos was conquered as at that time and the influence of Iddo weakened by the Benin government... Then 79 years later, the Oba decided to put a king there on the land he already conquered earlier and was expanding

Now to debunk ur claims of "ties of gratitude", watch out.. I'm going to do this with a timeline

1) 200 years after Benin made ashipa king, Lagos was still noted to be under the Benin Empire. An 1845 French account confirms this. It is translated as "The land "Lago" doesnt belong to them, it belongs to the Benin who applied the name "Korame" to it... In a later part of the excerpt it says "It continues to receive its governor and political officers from Benin"...

Note that this land here was referring to the town called Eko and everyone knows that the land was ruled by the Eleko of Eko who started his dynasty with the help of the Benin king.

So definitely this excerpt shows that "Lagos" or "Eko" was ruled indirectly by Benin.....

2) In December 1850, Akitoye wrote a letter to the British (attachment below) where he clearly said that The Oba of Benin had the undisputed right to crown and confirm who the people of Lagos choose to become their king.

Note the keyword here is undisputed... Before we go further, let's define The term "undisputed" for ur understanding

The term Undisputed means unchallenged and accepted without question...

It is important to know that the Oba didn't use the term "ceremonial" but rather "undisputed" to make the Queen of England understand the powerful status of the oba of Benin concerning the politics of Lagos

So clearly.. Oba Akitoye clearly said that the Oba of Benin had the unquestionable and unchallenged right to choose whosoever he wants to become the next Oba of Lagos

This corroborates the first eyewitness account that says that the land of Lago continued to receive it political leaders and governors from Benin

And it also contradicts ur highly revered account of ties of gratitude

3)After Akitoye was deposed by kosoko(who was supposed to become king but wasn't because of his absence), Akitoye went into exile. Kosoko who was also chosen by the Oba of Benin became king.

One important event to show Lagos was under Benin Empire was sometime in 1851..

In November 1851 a British party met with Oba Kosoko to present a proposal of British friendly relations along with giving up the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade . The proposal was rejected by Kosoko "on the technical reason that Lagos was under the Oba of Benin and that it was only that Oba who could deal with foreign powers concerning the status of Lagos"

References:Sanya Onabamiro. Glimpses Into Nigerian History: Historical Essays . Macmillan Nigeria, 1983. p. 43.

L.C. Dioka ,Lagos and Its Environs. First Academic, 2001. p. 75.

In a federal system of government, only the federal government have the powers to deal with foreign powers and not the state....

In this case, the federal power was Benin and the state, Lagos. This kosoko just confirmed..

This goes to explain the influence of Benin over Lagos...

4)Later that year, when Kosoko successful repulsed the British attack, Consul John Beecroft wrote to the Oba of Benin declaring that "Kosoko, by opening fire on a flag of truce, had declared war on England" and therefore had to be replaced by Akitoye. He threatened that Kosoko had till the end of the month to surrender otherwise "Lagos would be totally destroyed by fire".

References:Robert Sydney Smith. The Lagos Consulate, 1851–1861 . University of California Press, 1979. p. 27.

5)In 1860, Kosoko persuaded the Oba of Benin to send messages to Dosunmu pressing him to allow Kosoko's return to Lagos. Dosunmu, now under British authority, refused this request and noted that things were "not as in former times when Lagos was under the King of Benin to whom annually a tribute was paid"

6)Tributes were found out to have been paid up til 1851 when kosoko was dethroned.. this is shown in the letter below

^{CO147/15 from glover to Kennedy of 17 February 1869 which states that for the beach East of Lagos "with the territory of Lagos, King kosoko paid tributes to the king of Benin until his return to Lagos in 1862 when he ceded his rights to the British Crown and the ambassador of Benin who up till this date had always resided with the king of Lagos returned to Benin called upon me to take their leave informing me that they had been recalled and that no ambassador would in future be accredited to Lagos"}

This excerpt above is a letter written by the British officials to each other stating what had happened in Lagos

7) On 4 March 1879, CO147/37, Governor Moloney reported to the colonial secretary another visit to Lagos by messengers from the oba of Benin who arrived in February and interviewed King Dosunmu and his chiefs as well as himself

References:Smith, Robert. The Lagos Consulate, 1851–1861 . University of California Press, 1979. p. 102.

These timelines more than enough shows proof that lagos continued to be influenced by Benin until the dethronement of kosoko





The book rather is a compilation of major events that happened in Lagos between 1851 - 1861.. U need to stop deceiving ur self
.

Now with stunning evidences, experiences and timelines, that weak claim that Benin never influenced Lagos has been debunked...

The earliest source concerning lagos as shown is not the late 1800s account but rather the 1603 Josua Ulsheimer account which talked abt soldiers and not traders as ur Lagos account erroneously posted...

And that's why the Benin account has received more recognition by historians than the Lagos own not because of Yoruba population but rather because it corroborates the earliest known eyewitness account abt Lagos

Cheers


Gregyboy Etrusen edeyoung Etrusen Samuk valirex areafada2

The origin of Ashipa is unknown I stopped reading from the first line.
All these bare faced lies & revisionism emanated from the fact that your forefathers were allowed to erect a fenced camp called Koname on a tiny portion of land. Even as we speak none of your fathers dare sell a blade of grass in Lagos.

kiss the truth!

TAO11:


Mrs fool, why are you agitated that your lies are being exposed? You became so insecure that you had to beg Nairalanders not to read my comment.

I feel your pain.

Having said that, I would have thought that even as a bald, sad, dumb, fugly, Bini pathological liar; you should still be able to imagine that I could possibly engage experts to prepare a translating of any document (much less this less-than-two page statements) from any language into any language.

In fact, my translation of those statements pages was from two different bilingual French-English speakers who worked independently. Yes, I did that intentionally for control purposes.

Moving on to your fraudulent translation of the actual statements in question here, the original reads as follows:

“le capitaine Horseley nous l’a appelée Eco, et c’est ainsi que la désignent les Yébous”.

And your fraudulent translation (with which you seek to veil an important and salient point) goes as follows:

"Captain Horseley called it Eco, and that is how the yebous refer to it"

In order to perpetuate your fraud, you shied away from giving the faithful contextual translation of the key word “désignent“.

You’re well aware that giving such faithful translation of this particular word will shatter your age-long Benin lies.

In other words, it would become plain to all and sundry that it was the Ijebus (not the Binis) who actually named Lagos as “Èkó”.

To veil this salient information, you rendered your translation of this specific statement as vaguely as you possible can.

No! One does not have to be a Professor of French or English or both before realizing that the faithful translation of this statement [considering the key French word “désignent”] is as follows:

“Captain Horseley rendered it as Eco, and that is how it was designated by the Yébous”.

Folks, notice that the key base-word here, is the word “designate”. Our fraudulent bald Bini friend is trying his level best to veil this salient point.

Yes, the Ijebus are the ones who “designated” [not merely “refer to”] the island as “Èkó”.

I pledge to continue to rubbish you all over Nairaland. See attached.

Cc: , Ideadoctor, gomojam, id2019, djevino, 9jamustchange, BornRicch, Ddaji, J111333, excanny, Mysticwebb, Yebosola, Derrylatei, AustineJohn908, Cashsteady, owobokiri, forgiveness, bularaz, TimeManager, kilonshele101, 8BitGee, Daum, edo3, RuggedSniper, hicomm17, lionshare, ekesol, Demogorgon, Rumxy, Paganizonda, gwafaeziokwu, NGPatriot, macof, MelesZenawi

This is mean.

gregyboy:



Benin controlled the entire lagos and gave Anthony to local chiefs Benin population wasnt much to spread much cultural influence but are political influences wasn't undermine

Why is it that benin people are doing well in jokes on Nairaland but in real life they're not successful in comedy?

kiss the truth!

TimeManager:

The origin of Ashipa is unknown I stopped reading from the first line.
All these bare faced lies & revisionism emanated from the fact that your forefathers were allowed to erect a fenced camp called Koname on a tiny portion of land. Even as we speak none of your fathers dare sell a blade of grass in Lagos.

kiss the truth!

No one cares... Everyone knows ur brain isn't used for reading

If u had read more than the first line, u could fallen deep into depression..


Well when ur brain is finally connected, u can go back to reading that text and assimilating it better

If u had, u would have known Lagos and Korame and eko are all the same place...


For now, Keep shouting "kiss the truth" like a gif on repeat

Etinosa1234:


No one cares... Everyone knows ur brain isn't used for reading

When ur brain is finally connected, u can go back to reading that text and assimilating it better

If u had, u would have known Lagos and Korame and eko are all the same place...


For now, Keep shouting "kiss the truth" like a gif on repeat

Save your lies for your families to read.
The fact remains that the fenced camp your forefathers were allowed to build is called Koname. The entire Lagos including your tiny camp of Koname belongs to the Yoruba your landlords

kiss the truth!

thatigboman:
u have been making unsubstantiated claims all along. How did landlocked oyo have sea pirates?
Aworis are not yoruba. And lagos belongs to bini. Eko in bini language means "war camp"

So says another miscreant...go and claim Lagos Na...

thatigboman:
u can shaa deceive gullible people.
See how u just lied so smoothly. Deep down inside u, u know u are not saying the truth.

You can keep wailing for all we care...he just lectured you and all you could say is trash....

Balogunodua:


So says another miscreant...go and claim Lagos Na...

The guy is ibo, stop quoting him on this thread.

kiss the truth!

If you built a camp and called it koname, that's your business. Your koname is a camp, Lagos is never a camp.

kiss the truth!

Essential:
you are brain dead and a stupid dumb asshole. Your life is finish,you will die ugly.

Omo the truth pain this slowpoke o, chai. If you want die handsome means you want die young be that. You can't be 100 years and be handsome nah.

Your statement just confirms that you're the dead-brained person here.

Christistruth00:
King Kosoko was on Lagos Island at Isale Eko
not Lagos Mainland where Ijebu and Egba were in 100% Control


Even on Lagos Island Kosoko had no Authority over the Land which belonged to the Awori or over Ikoyi which belonged to the Onikoyi Royal family who were Ethnic Oyo Origin from Ikoyi in Osun State.

The Ikoyi Military Class were the Alaafin of Oyo's Cavalry.


It was the Egba Christian's and Ajayi Crowther that had invited the British to invade Lagos Island in Order to end King Kosoko's Slave trade

Many of the Egba Christian's and Ajayi Crowther had been freed Slaves themselves

OK, that's why we have Ikoyi in Lagos state. So the popular Onikoyi Eso is still the one in Lagos.

TAO11:

Just as humans grow to become independent (and free of) their parents control; so do many kingdoms also grow to become independent of their parent kingdom.

The fact that the Oyo and Ijebu-Ode kingdoms later in the course of history became independent kingdoms in their own rights does not mean that each of them was never initially descended from some kingdom — in this case the Ife kingdom.

To buttress this further, the attachment below shows pages from the typescript of the proceedings of the 31st March 1937 “Conference of Yoruba Chiefs”.

In this conference, the Alaafin of Oyo and the Awujale of Ijebu-Ode were not only present but also conceded to the declaration that their respective kingdoms initially descended from the Ife kingdom. See attached:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13005881_7ac037b1813f4cda979e313aad0450a3_jpeg_jpeg33b212c8164002010fa873e3e1bcdf89
www.nairaland.com/attachments/13005882_f30457e69fc64a1284d446f97bedc0c7_jpeg_jpege403908d96fdfa4cb59b80075cdb1ec7

This fact here as expounded recognized in this attached typescript (i.e. the fact that the kingdoms of the Alaafin and Awajale among others were originally descended from the Ife kingdom before their later independence) is obviously confirmed by the much earlier fact that the then Alaafin (and other Yoruba kings) had to live outside the walls of their respective palaces in honor of the fact that the Ooni left his palace for a meeting in Lagos.

No you’re not wrong. You’re right on this. However, that Ooni was also right on this.

That Ooni’s listing as contained in the document you’re alluding to was simply to debunk the Elepe’s claim that Ife directly authorized him to wear a crown.

The Ooni wasn’t saying that all Yoruba kingdoms got their crowns directly from Ife.

We know for a fact that many Yoruba kingdoms actually descended not directly from Ife but directly from another Yoruba kingdom.

Such descendant Yoruba kingdom often got their right to crowns not directly from Ife but via the actual kingdom they had directly descended from.

A case in point is the Eko kingdom about which the list given by that Ooni have also being misunderstood by the author of our OP’s content.

Eko is omitted from that Ooni’s list does not mean that the kings of Eko aren’t coronated with a crown. Yes, they are coronated with a crown as my attachment here shows.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13005855_93bc31b4bdcb4d5cba64a59661c10078_jpeg_jpeg7733eb0f9e9a5fbaf3cacd08449b0648

What the omission does mean instead is that the Eko kingdom got its primary/coronation crown not directly from Ife but via another Yoruba kingdom — not from Benin also, as this primary/coronation crown clearly shows here.
—————————

The following is the background to the Akarigbo vs Elepe tussle:

The Elepe’s district is a territory established within the Remo kingdom of Ishagamu (the Akarigbo’s kingdom) ruled by the Akarigbo who also the paramount king of all Ijebu-Remo kingdoms.

So, only two kings could possibly authorize the Elepe to wear a crown, viz. the Akarigbo of Ijebu-Remo, or Ife directly.

The Elepe was challenged by the Akarigbo himself. This thus shows that the Akarigbo didn’t authorize him to wear a crown.

The Elepe’s last straw was obviously to claim that Ife gave him the direct right — a claim which the Ooni debunked with his list.

Were Olu-Iwa, Ajebu and Olode from Ile ife?

Is Olu-Iwa the elder brother Omu who was the progenitor of both Lamurudu and Oduduwa?

I know Olu-Iwa's daughter got married to Obanta. Is Obanta the son of Oduduwa?

These questions will determine where Ijebus descended from.

I got your other points. Thanks

TimeManager:

Why is it that benin people are doing well in jokes on Nairaland but in real life they're not successful in comedy?

kiss the truth!

Jjjj

gregyboy:



Benin controlled the entire lagos and gave Anthony to local chiefs Benin population wasnt much to spread much cultural influence but are political influences wasn't undermine

Which parts of Lagos? Is it Lagos Island, Victoria Island, Surulere, Ikeja, Lekki, Badagry, Epe, Ikorodu, Ikeja, Ebute Meta etc?

Where exactly?

Yebedervru:


The only thing benidiots like you are good at is cultism, armed robbery, prostitution

No ambition, no future

Cultism started from Ibadan here but the youths had to give themselves Brain to drop it because it’s not profitable unlike Benin where parents would be happy their son is a cultist while daughter is a prostitute

I’m sure your mother is also a prostitute with damaged pussy like Lagos Ibadan expressway and I have bleeped your useless mother before here in Ibadan

Incase you doubt me, go to any hotel in Ibadan today, Your sisters constitute more than 50% of oloshos we have.

Well I’m also suspecting you that you may not be the child of your own mother as we don Bleep her tire for Ibadan here.
So instead of wasting your time on nairaland, try and use the energy to educate your youths to change their trade Benin hoodlum

Omo see finishing; you get badmouth o. See as you finish Benidiots.

forgiveness:


Which parts of Lagos? Is it Lagos Island, Victoria Island, Surulere, Ikeja, Lekki, Badagry, Epe, Ikorodu, Ikeja, Ebute Meta etc?

Where exactly?

Lagos island... That's the original place called Lagos..

Its also where the seat of the oba of Lagos is

Mrbillionaire:


Omo see finishing; you get badmouth o. See as you finish Benidiots.

Well the Benin hoodlums may not like it but I know them like the back of my hand because Edo Miscreants are very plenty here in Ibadan