When I say 'that's not the way I see it', I meant that I don't see Jamaica as an extention of Igboland.

Radoillo: When I say 'that's not the way I see it', I meant that I don't see Jamaica as an extention of Igboland.

Ok

I was only pointing out my views and you said I'm trying to claim everything. How do you mean? Did I write all those myself? Did I author the websites and books that said the same thing? Lol

You said before that the title of this thread is Nigerian(Igbo) and African American, that everything pertaining to the Igbo contribution to the slave trade is discussed here, right? Why turning around and saying we like to claim everything? Lmao.

You should have known by now that I only reiterate what authors and website owners have researched and written. I tell you that if you go to another thread discussing the contributions of that tribe to the slave trade, one would think its all about that tribe. Then go to another thread with topic on that tribe, you'll feel the same way too.

Nobody is claiming everything. Relax, ok?

Radoillo: When I say 'that's not the way I see it', I meant that I don't see Jamaica as an extention of Igboland.

Exactly. Me don't see Jamaica as Igboland neither.

So when people gather to discuss the contribution of ethnicities to the slave trade it becomes a case of claiming everything right? Lolz

Go through the thread and see if the Igbo claimed anything beyond what's already established that they contributed. Of course there's the Taino and their contribution. Then the Jamaican people who bear Akan names. And the culture of naming children after the day of the week they were born according to Akan traditions. I never heard any Igbo person claim all those.

I reiterate, the purpose of this thread is to point out the Igbo contributions to the transatlantic slave trade.

By the way, I learned there's a school or so in Jamaica named 'Calabar High School' in memory of substantial slaves that were imported from the Calabar Port in the Bight of Biafra. You know of it?

bigfrancis21:

I was only pointing out my views and you said I'm trying to claim anything. How do you mean? Did I write all those myself? Did I author the websites and books what said the same thing? Lol

You said before that the title of this thread is Nigerian(Igbo) and African American, that everything pertaining to the Igbo contribution to the slave trade is discussed here, right? Why turning around and saying we like to claim everything? Lmao.

Nobody is claiming anything. Relax, ok?

Yes Bigfrancis21

I know the title of this post but I will not go too crazy and start telling lies to support the Igbo People.

Some of you are claiming things that are from OTHER AFRICAN TRIBES/NATIONS


The Igbo have made your contributions, be happy with it, but please don't go overboard!!



Because I descend from the Jamaican population I can clearly tell you of the strong Ashanti influence on my people.


I feel that you are too promoting too much tribalism!


The reason I say so is because of things you have said in previous posts.



African Americans and Caribbean people cannot afford to be into tribalism because we are descended from many African tribes so
we have to accept them all!


I told you the other day that in Barbados people do not claim tribe but simply see each other was Barbadians
and NOT as IGBO or YORUBA etc.



Whereas in Nigeria an Igbo can freely say he does not like people who are Yoruba or Fulani!


I just didn't like the fact that IGBO'S are claiming aspects of Jamaica's culture that came from the AKAN.

If I may say so myself, some of the websites carry false info. (Example the sites that claim Palmeras was an Igbo 'state'). That's why I accept only what the professionals write as worthy of consideration.

@Jayvarley

Show me how I have promoted tribalism?

Can you please quote those my posts let me see?

The fact that you and I don't agree on the origin of Obeah doesn't suddenly mean I'm tribalistic or trying to claim everything. That we don't agree doesn't mean you're right that its of Akan origin therefore I'm trying to claim something of another origin. I could be wrong myself. And you could be wrong yourself too.

Authors too are divided on the issue. Those foreign authors that support the Igbo origins, are they tribalistic?

Moreover you're bringing up past argument on Barbados which you yourself claimed were useless argument. Why bringing them up now?

I see your accusations as baseless.

Or maybe you're trying to remain 'balanced' in your views. Supporting me and then suddenly accusing me isn't the way to show you're balanced in your views. Or I'd rather call it riding on the fence. Its totally childish.

Jayvarley:

I feel that you are too promoting too much tribalism!

The reason I say so is because of things you have said in previous posts.


I just didn't like the fact that IGBO'S are claiming aspects of Jamaica's culture that came from the AKAN.

Honestly, your accusation is unbecoming. You'll have to show me those Akan ASPECTS which you claim Igbo's are claiming.

Clearly, you're beginning to buy into stereotypes. And you're doing a good job at it.

bigfrancis21: @Jayvarley

Show me how I have promoted tribalism?

Can you please quote those my posts let me see?

The fact that you and I don't agree on the origin of Obeah doesn't suddenly mean I'm tribalistic or trying to claim everything. That we don't agree doesn't mean you're right that its of Akan origin therefore I'm trying to claim something of another origin. I could be wrong myself. And you could be wrong yourself too.

Authors too are divided on the issue. Those foreign authors that support the Igbo origins, are they tribalistic?

Moreover you're bringing up past argument on Barbados which you yourself claimed were useless argument. Why bringing them up now?

I see your accusations as baseless.

Or maybe you're trying to remain 'balanced' in your views. Supporting me and then suddenly accusing me isn't the way to show you're balanced in your views. Or I'd rather call it riding on the fence. Its totally childish.

Riding the fence huh? Using Kalis terminology now are we? How original!

Remember when you made derogatory comment to Kalis regarding the Fulani.

I have not forgotten any of the things you have said.

Also you made reference to a few notable African Americans of Igbo descent and say the "IGBO are HARDWORKING"

As if only IGBO people are hard working!!

Apart from that you have said that African Americans are lazy and depend on welfare.

Remember when you when you said that African Americans have contributed nothing to science??

In your view the only good African American is an IGBO AFRICAN AMERICAN!

It is things like that which you have said which make me know you are tribal.

Funny guy. You want to start an argument, the same very argument you called useless.

Entertain yourself.

bigfrancis21:

Funny guy. You want to start an argument, the same very argument you called useless.

Entertain yourself.

You are tribal Bigfrancis21 and you know it!


I notice how you did not deny anything what I just said there


If I were Igbo you and I could be friends, but because I am not I will have to run away for my own safety!

Bless your heart Jay.

Mrs.Chima:
Bless your heart Jay.

Thank you

Jayvarley:


Riding the fence huh? Using Kalis terminology now are we? How original!

Remember when you made derogatory comment to Kalis regarding the Fulani.

I have not forgotten any of the things you have said.

Also you made reference to a few notable African Americans of Igbo descent and say the "IGBO are HARDWORKING"

As if only IGBO people are hard working!!

Apart from that you have said that African Americans are lazy and depend on welfare.

Remember when you when you said that African Americans have contributed nothing to science??

In your view the only good African American is an IGBO AFRICAN AMERICAN!

It is things like that which you have said which make me know you are tribal.

Yea sure. You ride the fence real good. Ms. Fula was right about that.

Exactly. I wrote an article pointing out the heroic strength of those Igbo AAs who found themselves in perilous times but yet made it despite all odds. I saw the modern Igbo characteristics clearly playing out in their lives and decided to extol their bravery. I am Igbo. Yea. A proud one for that matter. There are supporters of different causes such as immigration overhaul, abortion, equality rights and so on. Everybody has a right to be pro-something. If I decide to support the Igbo cause does that make me tribalistic? Do you know what that even means?
If for nothing, I see myself as Pro-Igbo.

My article should serve as a stimulus to you to write about AAs of other ancestry who back then during slavery displayed characteristics known of them now. I enjoin you to do the same.

As for the welfare part, I wasn't wrong about that. Even the two AA sisters admitted to it and I pointed out clearly that that was pure laziness. One has to be up and doing in life. I then used Africans in US to compare to AAs to buttress my point and show you what I meant.

As for the AA non-contribution to science, I never said anything like that. You're clearly accusing me of something I never said. And yea, I did say that over 90% of US development came from non-blacks and I wasn't wrong about that. You were bragging about flag creation by one Marcus Garvey to which I replied that its not that much of an achievement to brag about. I clearly remember asking you, 'why don't we try something scientific?' I clearly wanted you people to show me the stuff you're made of. Read to understand, rather than twist facts.

You sure have a truck load of wrong statements and accusations which you've made. I still remember them clearly.

I was rather expecting you to quote my posts. Instead you came up with pretty accusations.

Damn....Black American chicks in Nigeria can still get welfare?

Kailis...crank up the hoopti! We are going to the White House!

Jayvarley:

Thank you

You are welcome suga.

Aha! I see your cheerleaders are back.

If I may ask, what's the name of the Sorority?

I never knew guys belonged to sororities?

Mrs.Chima:
Damn....Black American chicks in Nigeria can still get welfare?

Kailis...crank up the hoopti! We are going to the White House!

Kailis!!!

Radallio....are you Igbo?

bigfrancis21:

Yea sure. You ride the fence real good. Ms. Fula was right about that.

Exactly. I wrote an article pointing out the heroic strength of those Igbo AAs who found themselves in perilous times but yet made it despite all odds. I saw the modern Igbo characteristics clearly playing out in their lives and decided to extol their bravery. I am Igbo. Yea. A proud one for that matter. If I decide to support the Igbo cause does that make me tribalistic? Do you know what that even means?

My article should serve as a stimulus to you to write about AAs of other ancestry who back then during slavery displayed characteristics known of them now. I enjoin you to do the same.

As for the welfare part, I wasn't wrong about that. Even two AA sisters admitted to it and I pointed out clearly that that was pure laziness. One has to be up and doing in life. I then used Africans in US to compare to AAs to buttress my point and show you what I meant.

As for the AA non-contribution to science, I never said anything like that. You're clearly accusing me of something I never said. And yea, I did say that over 90% of US development came from non-blacks and I wasn't wrong about that. You were bragging about flag creation by one Marcus Garvey to which I replied that its not that much of an achievement to brag about. I clearly remember asking you, 'why don't we try something scientific?' I clearly wanted you people to show me the stuff you're made of. Read to understand, rather than twist facts.

You sure have a truck load of wrong statements and accusations which you've made. I still remember them clearly.

I was rather expecting you to quote my posts. Instead you came up with pretty accusations.

Deny the facts all you like Bigfrancis 21, If anyone can be bothered to go through the posts they will find what I am talking about.

I notice you keep asking me stupid questions like " Do you know what this means?"


There is a word for it ARROGANCE.

These are among the traits and reasons why MANY JAMAICANS do not want to identify with Nigerians and will more readily accept Ghanaians!

And please don't deny the part about you saying that African American did not contribute anything to Science you are making yourself look stupid.


OR DID YOU JUST DELETE THAT PART??

If you had been bothered enough to read up properly about Marcus Garvey you would have discovered that 20 African Nations based their Flags from the UNIA design in admiration for Garvey.

That should tell you that he must have made notable achievements!

Garvey was not a Flag designer he was rather a Political leader who cared for the welfare of all descendants of Africa and not only IGBO people

The fact that you think he was a flag designer highlights your ignorance

I am not going to waste my time going through your posts to quote them, everyone who is following knows what you have written.

It was this same tribalism which caused the slave trade

Mrs.Chima:
Radallio....are you Igbo?

Actually, I am.

Are u Igbo, or married to one, or just using an Igbo name?

I am the flag designer for U.S. flag.

Don't laugh Jay.

Radoillo:

Actually, I am.

Are u Igbo, or married to one, or just using an Igbo name?

No. Yes. Didn't have a choice.

Mrs.Chima:


No. Yes. Didn't have a choice.

LOL. U make it sound bad.

Rather than argue objectively, you lot have succeeded in turning what could have been a highly informative and educative into one of the usual pseudo-supremacy contest that's the bane of this forum...From Igbo's trying to re-write history and claim everything as Igbo's - to those trying to put Fulani's and Hausa's in places they never contributed anything to (the number of Fulani slaves are negligible and they didn't contribute much apart from cattle rearing and cowboy culture) - to those trying to link Kongo Kingdom with a DR Congo.

All the pseudo-stats would always be inconclusively because a lot of other tribes which were also sold into slavery aren't really on them. I'm sure there are Ijaw, Edo, Ewe, Nupe, Igala, Annang, Ibibio, Itsekiri etc. slaves as well. However, most of these people aren't represented in the slave charts. And also, most of the slaves taken from the different coasts weren't necessarily from those coasts. I'm sure a lot of the Fulani's who were sold into slavery were sold by the Yoruba's, since Fulani's were mostly slaves/servants in Oyo before Uthman Dan Fodio. And they must have been sold via the Bight of Benin. So this definitely negates the assertion that the slave routes represent those who were sold from there.

I'm also sure there are Nupe's, Igala's, Ijaw's, itsekiri's, Ibibio, Annang, Benin's and some tribes from Cameroon were also sold into slavery (though the numbers might be negligible but they were still sold). So how come they aren't represented on all these charts?

Anyway, the real people whose ancestors were sold into slavery don't really care about none of this trash anymore. It's about the new consciousness and trying to align with the African origin via spirituality and the available African traditions in diaspora.

PS: Yoruba muslims are different from Hausa/Fulani - two different groups. And the ones from Bahia, the Imales, are pure Yoruba's and they have nothing in common with Hausa/Fulani.

You do realize 'Male' was used in Brazil as a general term for muslims? In Africa, Imale was exclusive to Yoruba muslims, but the exclusivity didn't apply in Brazil. Some of the revolters could easily have been Hausas.

Agreed, some might be Hausa's or even Nupe's - who knows? However, they were mostly Nagoes (Yoruba's).

I still don't see how Fulani's got into the discourse since there isn't much, or nothing about Fulani's presence in Bahia.

Also, how come Nupe's and Kanuri's don't get credits for their contribution in diaspora as well?

I think its about numbers. Kanuris and Nupes didn't get transported as much as Wolofs and Akans for example, and there's very little literature on them. So historians have precious little to go by. If itsekiris and igalas were transported at all, nothing is known about it.

Don't underestimate Fulani contributions though. Apparently the planters valued them for their supposed high intelligence. (In the eyes of the white slaver, their caucasoid looks meant they were smarter than the full-blooded negroes.... Unless of course you re talking about Bahia alone.

Jayvarley:


Deny the facts all you like Bigfrancis 21, If anyone can be bothered to go through the posts they will find what I am talking about.

I notice you keep asking me stupid questions like " Do you know what this means?"


There is a word for it ARROGANCE.

These are among the traits and reasons why MANY JAMAICANS do not want to identify with Nigerians and will more readily accept Ghanaians!

And please don't deny the part about you saying that African American did not contribute anything to Science you are making yourself look stupid.


OR DID YOU JUST DELETE THAT PART??

If you had been bothered enough to read up properly about Marcus Garvey you would have discovered that 20 African Nations based their Flags from the UNIA design in admiration for Garvey.

That should tell you that he must have made notable achievements!

Garvey was not a Flag designer he was rather a Political leader who cared for the welfare of all descendants of Africa and not only IGBO people

The fact that you think he was a flag designer highlights your ignorance

I am not going to waste my time going through your posts to quote them, everyone who is following knows what you have written.

It was this same tribalism which caused the slave trade

He just finished calling me a tribalist. Now he calls me arrogant!

@Bold...tell me why won't I ask you what that word means when you don't know the simple meaning of racism where you claimed that Africans are racists to African Americans, both groups of which the last time I checked are both blacks



ITS VERY CLEAR YOU JUST DIDN'T KNOW THE MEANING OF RACISM. HERE YOU ARE AGAIN USING 'TRIBALISM' WRONGLY.

NOW WHEN HAS A SIMPLE QUESTION BECOME ARROGANCE??

DON'T TELL ME YOU'RE OFFENDED BY JUST THAT SIMPLE QUESTION??

WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY? THAT TRIBALISM CAUSED THE SLAVE TRADE? OMG!!!!

Fulanis at most are nomads and they do not sit still enough to have a region known for them.

They are all over the place but I don't think they contributed highly in ways that matter but nevertheless they shouldn't be in this debate at all.

Radoillo:

LOL. U make it sound bad.

He has called a family meeting when I asked can I use my maiden name.

It was torture but to appease my hubby I took his name.

He was grinning like a Cheshire cat after the name change.

Sighs.

bigfrancis21:

He just finished calling me a tribalist. Now he calls me arrogant!

@Bold...tell me why won't I ask you what that word means when you don't know the simple meaning of racism where you claimed that Africans are racists to African Americans, both groups of which the last time I checked are both blacks



ITS VERY CLEAR YOU JUST DIDN'T KNOW THE MEANING OF RACISM. HERE YOU ARE AGAIN USING 'TRIBALISM' WRONGLY.

NOW WHEN HAS A SIMPLE QUESTION BECOME ARROGANCE??

DON'T TELL ME YOU'RE OFFENDED BY JUST THAT SIMPLE QUESTION??

WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY? THAT TRIBALISM CAUSED THE SLAVE TRADE? OMG!!!!

Now you have proven your stupidity Francis.


Can all viewers of this topic search to find if I said that Africans are RACIST against African Americans.


The word RACIST simply was not used by me.

I only was honest enough to say some African Blacks DO NOT ACCEPT AFRICAN AMERICANS.


It was Francis who tried to twist my words and it was him who dropped in the word RACISM.

Because he knows he has obviously lost this argument, he is trying his best to wriggle out of it! PATHETIC

I have no need to use the word RACISM when AFRICAN AMERICANS and NATIVE AFRICANS are of the same race
however they are culturally different. Because of this sometimes they discriminate against each other.


Now lets see if Bigfrancis21 will try to twist the word discrimination to suit his own purposes.

He thinks he is the only person who knows what Racism, tribalism and Genetic crossover means!


AROGANCE!!!