Job 1:8 (KJV)

And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Job 2:3 (KJV)

And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

It was the righteousness of Job that God bragged about and proudly displayed before Satan who was His greatest enemy. And this wasn't just once but two good occasions to show that it wasn't by accident but a very deliberate act of God.

Hence the question:

Was The Righteousness Of Job As Filthy Rags Before God?

Now before you hastily answer the question, I would like you not to be in a hurry but take your time and first try to put yourself in God's shoes.

So would you brag about what you considered to be filthy rags before your greatest enemy?

Is it not what that which was of high value to you which could put your enemy to shame that you would proudly display before him?

Yet some believe that man's righteousness is as filthy rags before God, so perhaps they should come and explain how God would proudly brag about and display what He considered as filthy rags before the devil.

This instance of Job and many other overwhelming evidence to the contrary in the Bible, makes this idea being propagated by some of "man's righteousness being as filthy rags before God" to appear very questionable and not inspired of God but of men.

The idea actually emanated from this saying of prophet Isaiah:

Isaiah 64:6

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

So as you can now see, it wasn't really God speaking, but actually His prophet Isaiah, and if you read down the passage, you'd see that it was actually a prayer he said to God.

Therefore it's that part of his prayer to God that's now being taken out of context to mean that man's righteousness is as filthy rags before God, by some even though God has never said or suggested such a thing.

Hence, whenever you hear anyone say that our righteousness is as filthy rags before God using the Bible to back it up, you'd know that it's false, because you now know how the saying came about, that it didn't come from God and also goes contrary to His ways, because God would not proudly display what was as filthy rags to Him before the devil.

Instead it's man's iniquity and sins that are as filthy rags before God, as God cannot brag about such or proudly display them before the devil, but it's man's righteousness that gives God something to be proud of, which He can brag about to the devil and use to put him in his rightful place.

That's why there's rejoicing in heaven over just one sinner that repents because it gives God one more reason to put the devil in his rightful place. Luke 15:10

That's why Jesus said to those anointed workers of iniquity on the last day, that He never knew them, because God only knows those who have given Him something to be proud of and a reason to put the devil in his rightful place. Luke 13:27

So ask yourself, especially you that claim to be of God and a believer, does your life and works give God something to be proud of, which He can brag about before Satan and use to put him in his rightful place?

If not, then the Truth is that God doesn't really know you, because It's only the righteous who give God that opportunity to put Satan where he rightfully belongs that are known to Him.

Therefore you must repent and stop being a worker of iniquity, otherwise get ready to be rejected by Him as those other anointed workers of iniquity because He never knew you!

God bless.

I think the "Filthy Rags" is in relative to God's Holliness.

Not really that Our holliness isn't appreciated by God.

Disclaimer

Just my understading, I am no BIble scholar

incogni2o:
I think the "Filthy Rags" is in relative to God's Holliness.
Not really that Our holliness isn't appreciated by God.
Disclaimer
Just my understading, I am no BIble scholar

Holiness is not Righteousness and Righteousness is not Holiness.

Kobojunkie:
Holiness is not Righteousness and Righteousness is not Holiness.

You no go talk.... your own na to quote person opinion...

lilvicky68:
You no go talk.... your own na to quote person opinion...

Whose "talk" did you just respond to there?

Kobojunkie:
Whose "talk" did you just respond to there?

I wanted to post..as I saw you viewing the post I say no need because you go rush attack my opinion.. you're fond of that..e no good na

lilvicky68:
I wanted to post..as I saw you viewing the post I say no need because you go rush attack my opinion.. you're fond of that..e no good na

I don't attack opinions, even yours, I instead try to weigh in where I feel it may be necessary. For instance, the previous poster, whom I had responded to earlier, seemed to confuse holiness with righteousness, where they are not one and the same thing.

Kobojunkie:
I don't attack opinions, even yours, I instead try to weigh in where I feel it may be necessary. For instance, the previous poster, whom I had responded to earlier, seemed to confuse holiness with righteousness, where they are not one and the same thing.

Ok if you say so...I will be watching..

lilvicky68:
Ok if you say so...I will be watching...

My greatest desire is for more to experience the Truth of the New Covenant(Jesus Christ), separate and away from all the lies that today is Christiandom.

Kobojunkie:
My greatest desire is for more to experience the Truth of the New Covenant(Jesus Christ) separate and away from all the lies that today is Christiandom.

Una dey make Christianity confusing sometimes..maybe na different Bibles we dey read..

lilvicky68:
Una dey make Christianity confusing sometimes..maybe na different Bibles we dey read..

I am afraid you are pointing fingers at the wrong people here. I don't make it confusing, I instead try to make it as simple as it already was from the time of Jesus Christ. Only by digging past all the muck that is the doctrines and traditions of men(lies) can you get down to the Truth that is Jesus Christ whose word is Living Spirit(Spirit of Truth), and it only by accepting(trusting) and obeying His Truth(Jesus Christ) that you can become a follower of Jesus Christ, a Son of God(Holiness).
While you continue to accept(trust) and obey His Truth(Jesus Christ) still, you become born of the Spirit(Spirit of God) who then leads you to do the Will of the Father(Righteousness).

John 14 vs 25-31 (ESV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15. “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
16. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper,[f] to be with you forever,
17. even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be[g] in you.
18. “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
19. Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.
20. In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.
21. Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”

I bet you did not know this from any of the doctrinal teachings of your MoGs you have listened to date.

I read the exact same Bible that you do, only I don't have the doctrinal filter that folks who listen to the doctrines and traditions of men - what Jesus Christ declared were nothing but lies - mind you, do.

Kobojunkie:
I am afraid you are pointing fingers at the wrong people here. I don't make it confusing, I instead try to make it as simple as it already was from the time of Jesus Christ. Only by digging past all the muck that is the doctrines and traditions of men(lies) can you get down to the Truth that is Jesus Christ whose word is Living Spirit(Spirit of Truth), and it only by accepting(trusting) and obeying His Truth(Jesus Christ) that you can become a follower of Jesus Christ, a Son of God(Holiness).
While you continue to accept(trust) and obey His Truth(Jesus Christ) still, you become born of the Spirit(Spirit of God) who then leads you to do the Will of the Father(Righteousness).
I bet you did not know this from any of the doctrinal teachings of your MoGs you have listened to date.

I agree with this one

lilvicky68:
I agree with this one

See, I am not your source of confusion!

Kobojunkie:
See, I am not your source of confusion!

Not in this thread..here your okay..I know we have met in another thread that's why your moniker stored in my brain..

lilvicky68:
Not in this thread..here your okay..I know we have met in another thread that's why your momlker stored in my brain..

Now you know that my intention is not to confuse but to highlight instead the Truth of God which is pivotal if Righteousness and Heaven is really the goal.

Kobojunkie:
Now you know that my intention is not to confuse but to highlight instead the Truth of God which is pivotal if Righteousness and Heaven is really the goal.

Kudos to you..

Kobojunkie:
Holiness is not Righteousness and Righteousness is not Holiness.

It would have been more helpful for you to say the difference, your comment isn't constructive IMO

incogni2o:
It would have been more helpful for you to say the difference, your comment isn't constructive IMO

Holiness means "without sin", acceptable in the sight of God. In Jesus Christ, those who are Holy/Perfect are those who have through committing to accepting(trust) and obeying the teachings of Jesus Christ(Truth) have been set free from slavery to Sin and actually become Sons of God.

John 8 vs 31-47
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
31. So Jesus said to the Jews who believed in him, “If you continue to accept and obey my teaching, you are really my followers.
32. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
33. They answered, “We are Abraham’s descendants. And we have never been slaves. So why do you say that we will be free?”
34. Jesus said, “The truth is, everyone who sins is a slave—a slave to sin.
35. A slave does not stay with a family forever. But a son belongs to the family forever.
36. So if the Son makes you free, you are really free.

Through the knowing of the teachings of Jesus Christ and the obedience of it, one is set free from sin and indeed becomes a Son of God - they have the Spirit of Truth living inside of them guiding them through the Truth of Jesus Christ.

Even after one becomes holy, one is commanded by Jesus Christ to continue to accept and obey His teachings/commandments, in order that the Spirit of God(another Helper) may arrive to aid in obedience of the Will of the Father, just as Jesus Christ did.

John 14 vs 25-31 (ESV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15. “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
16. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper,[f] to be with you forever,
17. even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be[g] in you.
18. “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
19. Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.
20. In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.
21. Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”

Righteousness is the state of being led in doing the Will of God where those who are Righteous are those who are led and directed by the very Spirit of God to do good works in obedience to the Will of God. These are the ones who are said to serve God in Truth(Spirit of Truth is Jesus Christ) and in Spirit(Spirit of God).

In addition, the righteous - led by the Spirit of God to doing the Will of the Father- are, in John 15, said to be above the Law of Sin, implying they are perfect/holy where the Law(Jesus Christ) is concerned.

incogni2o:
I think the "Filthy Rags" is in relative to God's Holliness.

Not really that Our holliness isn't appreciated by God.

Disclaimer

Just my understading, I am no BIble scholar

If you speak in the respect of righteousness, you think wrong because God never said such a thing about righteousness.

It's iniquity and sin that's as filthy rags in God's sight.

That's the only thing that God detests in a man, so if you're a sinner or worker of iniquity, you better repent and start working righteousness instead, otherwise expect God to treat you as a "filthy rag" on the day of judgment.

God bless.

I went to faith clinic yesterday and a minister in church said "our righteousness is as filthy as rags" to be sincere, I felt somehow, like does it mean God doesn't appreciate the righteousness even when we put our very best, is that what this minister is trying to say?

Thanks for shedding some light on this issue, I now understand, it was Prophet Isaiah's opinion not God. That sentence can be disheartening and discouraging for people that are doing their best to live a righteous life, it could also make people that are unrighteous or not really righteous not to bother living a righteous life since its filthy as rags.

Nuttella:
I went to faith clinic yesterday and a minister in church said "our righteousness is as filthy as rags" to be sincere, I felt somehow, like does it mean God doesn't appreciate the righteousness even when we put our very best, is that what this minister is trying to say?

Thanks for shedding some light on this issue, I now understand, it was Prophet Isaiah's opinion not God. That sentence can be disheartening and discouraging for people that are doing their best to live a righteous life, it could also make people that are unrighteous or not really righteous not to bother living a righteous life since its filthy as rags.

I've always wondered at that saying. And pastors love using it.

Does it mean that the righteousness of God is filthy rags, since our righteousness is of Him? When will Christians stop being guilt-tripped that they aren't good enough, that their righteousness is filthy? If it's never good enough, what are we trying to live righteous lives for?

BRATISLAVA:


I've always wondered at that saying. And pastors love using it.

Does it mean that the righteousness of God is filthy rags, since our righteousness is of Him? When will Christians stop being guilt-tripped that they aren't good enough, that their righteousness is filthy? If it's never good enough, what are we trying to live righteous lives for?

If our righteousness is of/from God, we won't need to attain it ourselves. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Philippians 2:13

And let's be scripturally accurate, Isaiah 64:6 specifically said "all our righteousness" and not "all our iniquity". If we think it can't be that simple based on our finite minds, that doesn't mean God's word isn't true.

Nuttella:
I went to faith clinic yesterday and a minister in church said "our righteousness is as filthy as rags" to be sincere, I felt somehow, like does it mean God doesn't appreciate the righteousness even when we put our very best, is that what this minister is trying to say?

Thanks for shedding some light on this issue, I now understand, it was Prophet Isaiah's opinion not God. That sentence can be disheartening and discouraging for people that are doing their best to live a righteous life, it could also make people that are unrighteous or not really righteous not to bother living a righteous life since its filthy as rags.

Do you really think it's Isaiah's opinion and not God word........this is where that part that says "come let's reason together"........

Righteousness as filthy rags here could refer to one being "self righteous". Take the instance of the the prayer of the Pharisee and the Tax collector ,Jesus spoke about.

It's also said to be filthy when compared to the righteousness of God.

When a man is said to be righteous he does not strive to do the things of God or obey His commands. A righteous man willingly does all that God commands and will not be found wanting.

Permit me to say a righteous living is an effortless living, like Christ Jesus. He is the perfection we all seek.

All in all.......it's only God that justifies one who is righteous.

Obedience is what gives God pleasure and that is how we as believers earn righteousness....

God is righteous and His Word is the Truth.

BRATISLAVA:


I've always wondered at that saying. And pastors love using it.

Does it mean that the righteousness of God is filthy rags, since our righteousness is of Him? When will Christians stop being guilt-tripped that they aren't good enough, that their righteousness is filthy? If it's never good enough, what are we trying to live righteous lives for?

Nuttella:
I went to faith clinic yesterday and a minister in church said "our righteousness is as filthy as rags" to be sincere, I felt somehow, like does it mean God doesn't appreciate the righteousness even when we put our very best, is that what this minister is trying to say?

Thanks for shedding some light on this issue, I now understand, it was Prophet Isaiah's opinion not God. That sentence can be disheartening and discouraging for people that are doing their best to live a righteous life, it could also make people that are unrighteous or not really righteous not to bother living a righteous life since its filthy as rags.

It's actually people like you that make all these efforts worth it.

It's for the Master's sheep who are really willing to know His ways, not those who aren't and want to continue walking in ignorance.

The instance of Job alone proves that saying false. It was God Himself speaking not man, so no man cannot alter what God Himself says of man's righteousness.

Try and continue to give God a reason to proudly brag about to the devil and put him in his rightful place as Job did.

Let those who've decided to keep justifying their sins and works of iniquity with such erroneous ideas continue to do what appeases their flesh.

At the end we'd see if it's works of righteousness or works of iniquity that's are as filthy rags before God.

Thanks and God bless.

LisaAnneMia:
If our righteousness is of/from God, we won't need to attain it ourselves. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Philippians 2:13

And let's be scripturally accurate, Isaiah 64:6 specifically said "all our righteousness" and not "all our iniquity". If we think it can't be that simple based on our finite minds, that doesn't mean God's word isn't true.

When we are righteous, it is of God. Nothing can taint that.

Except sin. Living a sinful life then trying to commit acts that tally with righteousness, to feel good about oneself and play the hypocrite, is the filthy rag.

But nowadays pastors want to always drill into you that you're sinful and always unworthy. Even when you are following righteousness by the Bible. Telling people to confess to God that they are nothing before him, is that necessary? How can people be praying the prayer of repentance every single day of their lives? How can that be, when you are repented and committed to following after righteousness as God wants it? Isn't your righteousness of God?
If you are always unrighteous, why are you even a Christian knowing you are in perpetual sin and unrighteousness?

Weren't you called out of the kingdom of darkness into that of light? How can light work filthiness?

Don't know about you, but I don't believe my righteousness is a filthy rag, because I do it from a standpoint of the Word of God in its totality. It is wrong to preach that we are all perpetually unrighteous.

perezeghi:



Do you really think it's Isaiah's opinion and not God word........this is where that part that says "come let's reason together"........

Righteousness as filthy rags here could refer to one being "self righteous". Take the instance of the the prayer of the Pharisee and the Tax collector ,Jesus spoke about.

It's also said to be filthy when compared to the righteousness of God.

When a man is said to be righteous he does not strive to do the things of God or obey His commands. A righteous man willingly does all that God commands and will not be found wanting.

Permit me to say a righteous living is an effortless living, like Christ Jesus. He is the perfection we all seek.

All in all.......it's only God that justifies one who is righteous.

Obedience is what gives God pleasure and that is how we as believers earn righteousness....

God is righteous and His Word is the Truth.

Are you saying God said it and not Isaiah?

Oh! And about Job...you know let's not leave one part and ignore the other. It's always good to be scripturally accurate.

Yea, at the beginning of the book, God said Job was righteous. Let's not stop there okay? Let's continue in the book of job to prove how God sees self-righteousness.

When those evil things befell Job, and his three friends came to console him, one accused him of not being innocent, the other was talking about the traditions of the past, and the other was arguing based on legality (that if he had done this or if he had not done that, all these wouldn't be happening to him). But do you know what Job said from chapter 29? He started challenging their accusations and became so self-righteous. He talked about all that he did and all of his achievements. When you depend or believe you have your own part to play to keep the commandments, if anything bad happens, you begin to say things like "I don't deserve this. I have been upright all my life. I did this and did that. This shouldn't happen to me, why is God allowing this happen to me".

And if you say Job wasn't self-righteous, let's look at Elihu's argument in chapter 32. So these three men stopped answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. Read Elihu's argument cos he got angry that Job was justifying himself instead of God. See what self-righteousness causes?

Then God spoke in chapter 38. Shouldn't God justify Job in all his self-righteousness? But read God's responses. He was asking him questions, several questions since Job thought he did everything or he knows everything. God even told Job that he's no match to the Leviathan.

And in all of God's responses, whenever Job replied Him, he never talked about himself. He talked more about God. He humbled himself and that's when Job's turnaround came. So if you like, depend on your own righteousness, you're an easy target to the enemy just like Job. Not that those who depend on God's righteousness (Jesus) won't face tough times o. They will but they'll be humble cos they know nothing good can come from their efforts. Notice why Psalm 23 is mainly about God working and leading us, and more of we resting and being led?

Lastly, always be scripturally accurate. Let the Bible interpret the Bible. God uses the foolish things of the world to confound the wise. Just because you think the word of God can't be that easy, doesn't make God's word untrue. Shalom!

BRATISLAVA:

I've always wondered at that saying. And pastors love using it.

Does it mean that the righteousness of God is filthy rags, since our righteousness is of Him? When will Christians stop being guilt-tripped that they aren't good enough, that their righteousness is filthy? If it's never good enough, what are we trying to live righteous lives for?

There is man's righteousness(goodness), which is considered filthy rags where God is concerned, and then there is God's righteousness(goodness) which is holy and acceptable before God.

Man's sins eclipses every good works that he attempts. So no matter how much he tries, his good works can, while he remains slave to sin, will only further evil in some way or form.

Only those who are of Him(those who are no longer slaves to sin) can produce the kind of righteous that is pleasing and acceptable in the sight of God. That is why in Christ, we are called to be come holy like God so the works we do can in turn be made of standard acceptable to Him . God cannot reward our wicked works(works done in sin) but instead works done when we are living in obedience to His commandments.


So in a sense, the fraudsters you call pastors are on the mark when they tell you that your righteousness is filthy rags where God is concerned and one reason is you are paying attention to false teachers and prophets where God declared Himself as the one to teach you all things about Himself in His New Covenant. He also declared that He alone is the Only Shepherd over those who are in His flock... so why do you have these men who are not called by God , nor anointed by Him , as rulers over your life?

The lowdown is as long as a person remains a slave to sin, the person's good works(righteousness) will never measure up to God's standard where righteousness is concerned. Jesus Christ gave us the way out of sin and to perfection... as He commanded that those who want to be free from slavery to sin simply need to continue accepting and obeying His teachings/commandments.

I wouldn't be surprised if these many anointed ministers and preachers Jesus spoke about, also believed the false idea that man's righteousness was as filthy rags before God hence their continuing to work iniquity.

Matthew 7:22-23 (KJV)

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Obviously such false beliefs which justify the wicked and their works of iniquity, is bound to send many to hell.

God bless.

BRATISLAVA:


When we are righteous, it is of God. Nothing can taint that.

Except sin. Living a sinful life then trying to commit acts that tally with righteousness, to feel good about oneself and play the hypocrite, is the filthy rag.

But nowadays pastors want to always drill into you that you're sinful and always unworthy. Even when you are following righteousness by the Bible. Telling people to confess to God that they are nothing before him, is that necessary? How can people be praying the prayer of repentance every single day of their lives? How can that be, when you are repented and committed to following after righteousness as God wants it? Isn't your righteousness of God?
If you are always unrighteous, why are you even a Christian knowing you are in perpetual sin and unrighteousness?

Weren't you called out of the kingdom of darkness into that of light? How can light work filthiness?

Don't know about you, but I don't believe my righteousness is a filthy rag, because I do it from a standpoint of the Word of God in its totality. It is wrong to preach that we are all perpetually unrighteous.

I'll go strictly to what 2 Corinthians 5:21 says that if we are in Christ, we've become the righteousness of God in Him. The righteousness of God is a gift according to the Bible. Our own righteousness doesn't count. It doesn't say we're the righteousness of ourselves in Christ.

Someone quoted me one time saying that our righteousness has to be more than that of the Pharisees according to what Jesus said. And I agree. Thank God I'm not leaning on my own righteousness cos I have nothing to offer. I can't keep all the rules and laws on my own. I depend on Jesus' righteousness. And His righteousness super exceeds that of the Pharisees, and that's what I depend on.

Someone else quoted me one time and said "if I break the law, it doesn't stop me from still trying to obey the commandments". In the old covenant, whenever the Israelites sinned or broke any commandment (and mind you, when you break one commandment you're guilty of breaking all. If you lie but u don't commit adultery, God sees you as an adulterer), they had to offer a sacrifice to God. Jesus became our ultimate sacrifice on the cross for us. So are these people trying to say that if they break the law and try to obey the commandments based on their efforts, are they sacrificing Jesus over and over again? Are they putting Him on the cross each time they depend on themselves (like in the old covenant) and they fail over and over again? Cos I don't understand.

Nuttella:
Are you saying God said it and not Isaiah?

Prophet Isaiah is God's servant. Likewise his word is God's word.

Take a look at this Scripture....

Rom.10.3 - For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.(NKJV).

Romans 10:3
For they don’t understand that Christ has died to make them right with God. Instead they are trying to make themselves good enough to gain God’s favor by keeping the Jewish laws and customs, but that is not God’s way of salvation. (Living Bible)



Rom.3.10 - As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;(NKJV).

Romans 3:10
As the Scriptures say,
“No one is good—no one in all the world is innocent.” (Living Bible)


I hope this helps better to understand.

One guy above is quite confused and quoted Matthew 7:22-23. Thank God he did that. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. I dunno why people like ignoring Romans 6:2. They always stop at Romans 6:1. Romans 6:2 clearly has the answer to the gospel of grace that they say is of the enemy. How can someone who is dead to sin and alive in Christ Jesus work iniquity? Is the work that Jesus do of iniquity? So how can those who live in Christ work iniquity? Isn't Jesus talking about works that glorify men instead of God. In all your self efforts to keep the commandments on your own, do these efforts or works glorify God or glorify men? Those who look to Jesus as their righteousness and depend 100% on Him, are they glorifying Jesus or glorifying themselves? Ask yourselves these questions.